Evina Waived. Burke and Harrigan as well

[ballerfan]

As has been the case the last few seasons, I will begin watching after the All-Star game. Personally, I find the first half of the season unwatchable. No flow, no continuity, star players finishing overseas commitment, etc. The players act like they barely care about the league because it's clear that overseas is their #1 priority. Then they immediately come to their WNBA team and play lethargically for a few weeks before they get into a groove. Hard no from me on that. I can think of much better use of my summer hours.

FTR, I'm a Tennessee fan, not a UConn fan. So yes...I will be rooting for the Chicago Sky later on in the season and will watch Phoenix to see how Diamond does there. Will also follow the Wings for Harrison plus the ND girls, Harris from SC and McCowan. Depending on where Rickea and Horston land, I may follow their teams next season. I just have one hard rule: I will not root for any team that Liz Cambage plays for. I think she's an awful person and the WNBA should show a backbone and tell her she's not welcome in the league with the way that she constantly disparages it. Like, if it's so bad, then stop showing up already. Life will go on in the WNBA without her.

Those ratings are just further reason why the players should take a step back and think about what they're asking for themselves. Those are bad for a professional sports league that takes itself as seriously as the WNBA does. To put it in perspective, Pro Bowling championships had twice as many viewers for their championships. That should be every player in the league's #1 priority: growing their fanbase (and I mean fans that turn up and tune in for their games, not hit "like" on their tweets complaining about some imaginary gender pay disparity).

I didn’t know you were a Tennessee fan, but I’m happy to hear that you follow the WNBA, even though the first half of the season is unwatchable for you.

I know I’m not supposed to like Candace Parker. She beat UConn, and she says negative things about UConn and Geno. But I enjoy watching her play, and I think she’s smart and a good analyst. I began watching the Sky after she joined the team last year, but as a UConn fan, someone who watches every UConn women’s game, I prefer Seattle and Phoenix.

Not all WNBA players are unaware of supply and demand and think they should be paid like the men. Sue Bird’s concern is not immediate equal pay but more investment in the league to help it grow. That investment could be private, not just subsidies from the NBA, and I think that’s beginning to happen. Jordan’s recent selection of WNBA players for his shoe line is a sign of growing business interest. In my opinion.

I refuse to call any player, including Cambage, an awful person. I don’t like personal attacks.

As a viewer of women’s and men’s college basketball, the NBA, the WNBA, and the EuroLeague, I can say that there are things in each league that I don’t like. Getting rid of hand checking in the NBA, for example, killed defense and an important, interesting part of the game.

Maybe I should watch pro bowling. I didn’t know it was so popular. But I don’t think pro bowling’s popularity has any relevance to the WNBA.

I agree that growing the fan base is the most important thing. I doubt you’ll agree with me, but I think Paige, with all the fascination and enthusiasm of her fans, will help the WNBA.

 

[Skeets]

The simple example is that a PBS station in CT took a gamble on WCBB and started broadcasting all Uconn WCBB games ... it became a huge money earner for that non-commercial station and people around the country took notice. Within about 10 years, that station lost a bidding war with a commercial station for those broadcast rights, and other commercial stations started broadcasting a lot of WCBB games when almost no games were being broadcast back in 1995.

All of us fans of WCBB anywhere in the country and with any team owe a debt to CPTV for making that initial commitment and showing it was a commercially viable product. Now we just need to see if we can push it beyond the college game.

(Historical note: pro men's leagues struggled to grow while the men's college game was a bigger attraction. College Football and college basketball were huge while their pro relatives were still barnstorming and their pro athletes were working other jobs in the off seasons. MLB I think was the one pro league that predated serious college interest which is why their farm system was so important to them and remains the primary feeder to the big leagues.)

You make an excellent point. Many credit Lobo for enlightening people to WCBB. While there is truth to this, not enough credit is given to CPTV for bringing WCBB into peoples living rooms. Others followed suite and the sport was off and running. Having said that I am thoroughly happy not to have to listen to CPTV begging for money during each time out and during half time.

 

[Skeets]

As far as the WNBA is concerned, I'll watch a game only if 2 conditions are met: 1. there's absolutely nothing else on, and 2. there are some former UConn players on 1 or both teams. So, that says a lot about where my interests are, i.e. UConn or the WNBA.

 

[Kat]

There are 12 teams in the WNBA so competition is fierce and careers tend to be short.

 

[Beemer]

without the Nba this league would have been dead and buried a long time ago. Then you had Wnba players taking shots at Nba players for whatever reason, yea that's smart, take a shot at the league that is helping you financially. Might have been the reason Adam Silver dropped a pipebomb with mentioning the loss of money the league has yearly. At this point they are a tax write off for the Nba. Honestly might be better to just let it die and start from scratch with a new league. Saw Around the Horn and Kevin Blackistone made a good point, the previous women's basketball league had fair and higher pay and better structure for players to get paid. Somehow a newer league has set them backwards.

The ABL went bankrupt because they couldn't come up with the money for that "fair and higher pay". In this respect the WNBA has it exactly right- it must have a secure financial foundation before it can even think about paying tons of money to its players. Until then the players need to suck it up and deal. If they don't want to make the sacrifices (in this instance higher pay perks) needed in order to establish women's professional basketball in this country then so be it. But don't be whining about having to play overseas in order to make a living as a pro either.

 

[CTBballfan243]

"Richest Women in America in One Graphic" article from 2021.

The Richest Women in America in One Graphic

WNBA executives and players might ask themselves, "why are these wealthy and powerful women not investing in the WNBA?"

Rich people are usually rich for a reason. They typically make sound investments where they will get a good ROI. Obviously the WNBA is not that.

 

[amb3096]

The ABL went bankrupt because they couldn't come up with the money for that "fair and higher pay". In this respect the WNBA has it exactly right- it must have a secure financial foundation before it can even think about paying tons of money to its players. Until then the players need to suck it up and deal. If they don't want to make the sacrifices (in this instance higher pay perks) needed in order to establish women's professional basketball in this country then so be it. But don't be whining about having to play overseas in order to make a living as a pro either.

ABL had 2 seasons, then went bankrupt a few months into the 3rd season and the show was over. They were doing what a lot of the WNBA backers were asking for, which was high salaries and a non-summer schedule. But they didn't have the bottomless pockets of the NBA to bail them out.

The bolded statement needs to be broadcast to all of the players in the league. And the sacrifice is not just accepting the lower pay, but it is also foregoing overseas commitments and doing everything they can to promote the WNBA brand in their communities during the offseason. They should be a league ambassador all year round and need to be proactive in building up the fanbase. If they aren't willing to do this, then just go get your check overseas, consider yourself blessed to be making such good money playing a sport that you love, and stop complaining that you only have a couple hundred thousand in the bank instead of millions.

 

[DrummerDee]

I didn’t know you were a Tennessee fan, but I’m happy to hear that you follow the WNBA, even though the first half of the season is unwatchable for you.

I know I’m not supposed to like Candace Parker. She beat UConn, and she says negative things about UConn and Geno. But I enjoy watching her play, and I think she’s smart and a good analyst. I began watching the Sky after she joined the team last year, but as a UConn fan, someone who watches every UConn women’s game, I prefer Seattle and Phoenix.

Not all WNBA players are unaware of supply and demand and think they should be paid like the men. Sue Bird’s concern is not immediate equal pay but more investment in the league to help it grow. That investment could be private, not just subsidies from the NBA, and I think that’s beginning to happen. Jordan’s recent selection of WNBA players for his shoe line is a sign of growing business interest. In my opinion.

I refuse to call any player, including Cambage, an awful person. I don’t like personal attacks.

As a viewer of women’s and men’s college basketball, the NBA, the WNBA, and the EuroLeague, I can say that there are things in each league that I don’t like. Getting rid of hand checking in the NBA, for example, killed defense and an important, interesting part of the game.

Maybe I should watch pro bowling. I didn’t know it was so popular. But I don’t think pro bowling’s popularity has any relevance to the WNBA.

I agree that growing the fan base is the most important thing. I doubt you’ll agree with me, but I think Paige, with all the fascination and enthusiasm of her fans, will help the WNBA.

You should really use the quotes button. No one can tell who you are replying to without the source post. Really...you should.

 

[ballerfan]

You should really use the quotes button. No one can tell who you are replying to without the source post. Really...you should.

I used reply. Everyone can see the source post that way. Scroll up and look for yourself. Really…you should.

 

[TC22]

The ABL went bankrupt because they couldn't come up with the money for that "fair and higher pay". In this respect the WNBA has it exactly right- it must have a secure financial foundation before it can even think about paying tons of money to its players. Until then the players need to suck it up and deal. If they don't want to make the sacrifices (in this instance higher pay perks) needed in order to establish women's professional basketball in this country then so be it. But don't be whining about having to play overseas in order to make a living as a pro either.

So in other words you all are saying “shut up and dribble”. A lot of the things players bring to our attention aren’t things the average or even new fan would know. I don’t have a clue how contracts for other sports are unless they are posted or W”whined” about and so I research it. I’m glad they are speaking up. Players understand why they aren’t getting paid as much as NBA players. What they don’t understand is why they haven’t been given the same opportunities for growth that other pro organizations have. And if you aren’t a woman you won’t understand that because you’ve not had to live it.

 

[cancontent]

I used reply. Everyone can see the source post that way. Scroll up and look for yourself. Really…you should.

Using reply or quotes seems to provide the same result, from my experience. The only difference with quotes is that several can be included. It could be a matter of user preference.

 

[Kaizen]

As far as the WNBA is concerned, I'll watch a game only if 2 conditions are met: 1. there's absolutely nothing else on, and 2. there are some former UConn players on 1 or both teams. So, that says a lot about where my interests are, i.e. UConn or the WNBA.

Me toooo,
I only watch the WNBA games with UConn players on.

I remember I was a big fan of Maya and watched almost every game with her on, if possible. Then Breanna, Saniya Chong, Naphessa and Katie Lou, and definitely will be for Paige and Azzi.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Me toooo,
I only watch the WNBA games with UConn players on.

Isn't that most of the teams in the league?

I getcha though, I otherwise wouldn't be particularly interested in the Aces, but because of Plum I'll catch their games whenever I can. I'll also watch the Lib because of Whitcomb. But I follow the Storm because they're the local team. And of course Sloot with the Sky. I'll randomly watch some other teams from time to time.

 

[Kaizen]

The ABL went bankrupt because they couldn't come up with the money for that "fair and higher pay". In this respect the WNBA has it exactly right- it must have a secure financial foundation before it can even think about paying tons of money to its players. Until then the players need to suck it up and deal. If they don't want to make the sacrifices (in this instance higher pay perks) needed in order to establish women's professional basketball in this country then so be it. But don't be whining about having to play overseas in order to make a living as a pro either.

Geee, I didn't even know there is an ABL league existed. Just found they were created while UConn undefeated 35-0 in 1995 and US Women Basketball Gold medal in 1996. That is way before I started watching in women basketball.

There is an Asian ABL league for men basketball (ASEAN Basketball League - Wikipedia). They started in 2009 until 2020 and is held due to COVID-19, and will start again in 09-2022. They are supported by the different countries' major TV stations. May be USA can learn from this.

 

[amb3096]

So in other words you all are saying “shut up and dribble”. A lot of the things players bring to our attention aren’t things the average or even new fan would know. I don’t have a clue how contracts for other sports are unless they are posted or W”whined” about and so I research it. I’m glad they are speaking up. Players understand why they aren’t getting paid as much as NBA players. What they don’t understand is why they haven’t been given the same opportunities for growth that other pro organizations have. And if you aren’t a woman you won’t understand that because you’ve not had to live it.

"What they don’t understand is why they haven’t been given the same opportunities for growth that other pro organizations have."

The WNBA has lost money for 25 years and shows no trended pattern of growth nor profitability. The NBA has supported them financially nonetheless. What more opportunity can you possibly expect?

"And if you aren’t a woman you won’t understand that because you’ve not had to live it."

Women's tennis proves otherwise. But Ultimate Frisbee is probably a closer analogy: a niche sport with limited interest. The difference is they aren't playing victim and asking for NBA-level pay. The WNBA has a distinct advantage over them, though. As a woman, I'm sure you'd agree that if women supported women's sports in meaningful ways (i.e. buying tickets, watching games, paying for merch...not "likes" on Twitter), then the WNBA would have no problem growing to a threshold in which they'd get salaries they'd be quite happy with. But women fans have not provided their backing. So instead, the WNBA is going down the victim path. It's getting them Twitter likes from the social justice slacktavists, but ultimately it's doing nothing for increasing their viewership in a material manner.

"So in other words you all are saying “shut up and dribble”."

At least what I'm saying is, "Your division has been losing money for 25 years. You're lucky that they haven't pulled the plug and you still have a job. Demanding a raise in line with the blockbuster divisions is not a good look."

 

[cancontent]

It's interesting to read the viewing preferences for WNBA games. I'll watch Minnesota and Phoenix to support the Canadian players on their teams, but I find myself watching a lot of the games regardless. Maybe it's because I don't have a favourite NCAA team, but I'm a sports junky and like watching a lot of different sports.

I don't see the game being as much one-on-one as others view it though. Could be a matter of perspective/viewpoint.

 

[amb3096]

Geee, I didn't even know there is an ABL league existed. Just found they were created while UConn undefeated 35-0 in 1995 and US Women Basketball Gold medal in 1996. That is way before I started watching in women basketball.

There is an Asian ABL league for men basketball (ASEAN Basketball League - Wikipedia). They started in 2009 until 2020 and is held due to COVID-19, and will start again in 09-2022. They are supported by the different countries' major TV stations. May be USA can learn from this.

The difference is that basketball is hugely popular in Asia, even if it's not the NBA. The TV stations likely are getting some great ad revenue from it. The WNBA doesn't have the fanbase where this would be an appealing investment opportunity for TV stations in the US.

 

[WFFL]

Watch the WNBA .....

 

[cancontent]

The difference is that basketball is hugely popular in Asia, even if it's not the NBA. The TV stations likely are getting some great ad revenue from it. The WNBA doesn't have the fanbase where this would be an appealing investment opportunity for TV stations in the US.

This isn't accurate. Their viewing numbers increased by over 50% when compared to 2020. How is that not an indication there's a fanbase? Sure it's not major league numbers but the trend indicates there is interest.

2021 WNBA Season on ESPN/ABC Experiences Exponential Viewership Growth – Most-Viewed WNBA Finals Since 2017

This year the WNBA celebrated its 25th season and with that came exponential viewership growth across multiple categories on ESPN networks

espnpressroom.com

 

[Reypl21]

I just bought the league pass today, and I havent in years. I'm excited to watch. Although many of the players I am interested in aren't back yet.

 

[pvdoggy]

This isn't accurate. Their viewing numbers increased by over 50% when compared to 2020. How is that not an indication there's a fanbase? Sure it's not major league numbers but the trend indicates there is interest.

2021 WNBA Season on ESPN/ABC Experiences Exponential Viewership Growth – Most-Viewed WNBA Finals Since 2017

This year the WNBA celebrated its 25th season and with that came exponential viewership growth across multiple categories on ESPN networks

espnpressroom.com

It may be real and I wish the WNBA well but as with everything else, I will discount any of the streaming/viewing numbers from 2021 with a grain of salt. Just ask all the companies with a big surge in streaming business last year and quite different results this year.

 

[amb3096]

This isn't accurate. Their viewing numbers increased by over 50% when compared to 2020. How is that not an indication there's a fanbase? Sure it's not major league numbers but the trend indicates there is interest.

2021 WNBA Season on ESPN/ABC Experiences Exponential Viewership Growth – Most-Viewed WNBA Finals Since 2017

This year the WNBA celebrated its 25th season and with that came exponential viewership growth across multiple categories on ESPN networks

espnpressroom.com

My take:

• That's great that they had an increase in finals viewership for the last two years. But what is the trend since the league started? Is WNBA viewership increasing, decreasing, or flat?
• The record for the finals viewership is the 2003 final with just under 850k viewers. 2021 final game had 570k viewers. That's a decrease of nearly 33%. So in 18 years, they have not been able to get back up to the high in spite of the additional investments. From articles, it seems like 2021 was their best year for viewership since 2008. So in spite of the college game exploding during this period, the interest in the WNBA actually went down.
• Is an average of ~300k viewers/game significant enough for investors, given the player salaries and other operational expenses and the fact that the players continue to demand higher salaries and perks? IMO, those are very low numbers that wouldn't be attractive for someone looking just to break even, let alone make a profit.

 

[Beemer]

So in other words you all are saying “shut up and dribble”. A lot of the things players bring to our attention aren’t things the average or even new fan would know. I don’t have a clue how contracts for other sports are unless they are posted or W”whined” about and so I research it. I’m glad they are speaking up. Players understand why they aren’t getting paid as much as NBA players. What they don’t understand is why they haven’t been given the same opportunities for growth that other pro organizations have. And if you aren’t a woman you won’t understand that because you’ve not had to live it.

What opportunities for growth haven't they been given??? It took DECADES for the NBA, NFL, MLB, & NHL to become what they are today. For years athletes had to work regular jobs in the off season because they couldn't make enough money during the playing season..the revenue simply wasn't there. It isn't going to be any different for the WNBA, NWSL, women's pro hockey etc. It takes time and a great deal of money to build a successful sports league- sports history is littered with leagues that have failed, usually because the revenues weren't enough to sustain large salaries promised to the athletes.

These women look at the NBA as it is today and complain about how unfair it is that they don't make the same $ as the men, don't have the same perks etc. They probably don't know the history of the NBA and other major sports leagues & think things have always been the way they are today. That's understandable, we all do that. They need to get a clue.

For the record I am a woman. I have been a fan of women's basketball since 1995. I want the WNBA to succeed and to grow. There's no way they can do that while they're running multi-million dollar deficits every season. Get the financial house in order first, then see about improving pay & benefits.

 

[cancontent]

My take:

• That's great that they had an increase in finals viewership for the last two years. But what is the trend since the league started? Is WNBA viewership increasing, decreasing, or flat?
• The record for the finals viewership is the 2003 final with just under 850k viewers. 2021 final game had 570k viewers. That's a decrease of nearly 33%. So in 18 years, they have not been able to get back up to the high in spite of the additional investments. From articles, it seems like 2021 was their best year for viewership since 2008. So in spite of the college game exploding during this period, the interest in the WNBA actually went down.
• Is an average of ~300k viewers/game significant enough for investors, given the player salaries and other operational expenses and the fact that the players continue to demand higher salaries and perks? IMO, those are very low numbers that wouldn't be attractive for someone looking just to break even, let alone make a profit.

It's not just WNBA finals where they saw an increase. To me, it's an indication the marketing and additional TV exposure on mainstream network channels like ESPN is working. And the additional coverage in Canadian markets, which was non-existent before, also helps to expand their reach. As a Canadian, being able to flip on the game instead of using the WNBA app is awesome. It's small steps like this which will help the league overall.

Now it's a matter of how well can the WNBA leverage this and build upon it. You're skeptical, fine and that's fair. I see it differently.

And with respect to ownership, I think you've overlooked or are short changing some of the owners who are making significant efforts for their respective teams. The Storm ownership group is all women if I remember correctly and this transition was recent. They'll also will have a better stadium to play out if soon.
Joseph Tsai bought the Liberty a couple years ago, moved them to Brooklyn to make them more accessible to their fanbase. Ted Leonosis seems very supportive of the Mystics. Mark Davis made a large investment in the Aces and is committed to making his team the best that it is. The marketing team for them has done an impressive job.

All I'm trying to point out is that they've made some strides which is much better under the current WNBA management team compared to before. I've noticed a large difference compared to even 5/6 years ago. I hope it continues.

 

[baggerbob]

It's not just WNBA finals where they saw an increase. To me, it's an indication the marketing and additional TV exposure on mainstream network channels like ESPN is working. And the additional coverage in Canadian markets, which was non-existent before, also helps to expand their reach. As a Canadian, being able to flip on the game instead of using the WNBA app is awesome. It's small steps like this which will help the league overall.

Now it's a matter of how well can the WNBA leverage this and build upon it. You're skeptical, fine and that's fair. I see it differently.

And with respect to ownership, I think you've overlooked or are short changing some of the owners who are making significant efforts for their respective teams. The Storm ownership group is all women if I remember correctly and this transition was recent. They'll also will have a better stadium to play out if soon.
Joseph Tsai bought the Liberty a couple years ago, moved them to Brooklyn to make them more accessible to their fanbase. Ted Leonosis seems very supportive of the Mystics. Mark Davis made a large investment in the Aces and is committed to making his team the best that it is. The marketing team for them has done an impressive job.

All I'm trying to point out is that they've made some strides which is much better under the current WNBA management team compared to before. I've noticed a large difference compared to even 5/6 years ago. I hope it continues.

The LPGA not only works with their sponsors, with advertising, but also usually the day before the tournament, play a round with their sponsors for tournaments.
And that includes the biggest stars.