B1G, ACC battle for New York

[UConn Dan]

He is referring to wins against teams that ended the season ranked.

Ah, I see "Billy Bud's Metric" now.

Damn that Woomba!

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Almost all of UConn's good wins have come out of the Big East though - did a quick spot check for UConn against billybud's metric and UConn's best wins were against 2010 WVU, 2011 Rutgers, and 2012 Louisville, none against the P5 conferences.

billybud, unfortunately FSU's scoring record was surpassed during the Rich Rod years :|

A couple of things hurt UConn, first and foremost seems to be the fact that UConn has only been FBS/D1 football since 2004, although the football program goes back to 1896. The following has also hurt:

· A 40,000 seat off-campus stadium, though I cannot not fault the decision at the time due to the fact that - 1) no one knew how UConn would do in the Big East, 2) politics in in Hartford pulled the stadium towards Hartford and politics in Mansfield pushed the football stadium away from Storrs, 3) although many predicted a Big E split between basketball and football teams even as far back as the late 1990’s, the hurricane of conference realignment was not seen. Of course, if Bob Kraft and Paul Tagliabue had not conspired to break a signed contract, UConn could have been sharing a domed, 65,000 seat off-campus stadium in downtown Hartford with the Patriots

· Hiring of Paul Pasqualoni. He was a safe pick that was supported by the CT local football network; but, UConn needed a successor to Edsall that would continue to growth both on the field and in the press of UConn football. Not a good man who should have retired several years who is focused on maintaining a steady ship.

· 2011 Fiesta Bowl - If UConn was able did not give up two late TD’s Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl (would have been a 34 to 20 loss instead of a 48 to 20 loss), UConn’s image would have been better. I don’t buy the ticket issue, though. There were a lot of UConn fans there, especially considering Glendale is 2,600 miles from Storrs. It’s just that most UConn fans did not feel like getting robbed by the Fiesta Bowl committee and buy the package through UConn (2,770 of 17,500 sold). UConn was not the only school with that issue. Plus, no one points out that the Fiesta Bowl President got fired a few months later for various scandals involving Fiesta Bowl money.

· OCC Wins – If UConn’s two big OCC wins in 2009/10 at ND and versus S Carolina in a bowl game would have been against ranked teams. That’s said, ND owes UConn a big ‘thank you’ for helping push Charlie Weis out the door

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I feel more confident in PP now than ever before simply because we have a real OC in TJ. Hank Hughes is a great coach and DC and has earned our respect.

Basically, PP needs to recruit, keep things in order and stop botching timeouts. The staff has the other stuff under control. (As long as GDL can really coach an OL, I think he can do that job)

I have a good friend who was at Syracuse during their PP days and he warned me that PP is loyal to GDL to a fault as a friend and not as a coach. Thus, I am very concerned that Weist may not have the control over the offense that he and UConn needs him to have. I am hoping that Warde used his weight when Weist was hired to inform PP that Weist IS the OC and not GDL. We will see…

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The goal posts moved. Now it is OOC vs. ranked P5 schools.

The thing is, not many ranked P5 teams want to schedule non-sure thing OOC games. If you want to be a glass is half full type of person, you can point out that UConn is not scheduled often by ranked P5 teams because there is more than a passing doubt that the P5 team will win.

True, does any think that Appalachian State will ever be allowed to step foot in Michigan Stadium again?

 

[Husky25]

A couple of things hurt UConn, first and foremost seems to be the fact that UConn has only been FBS/D1 football since 2004, although the football program goes back to 1896...

2002. They began Big East Play one year earlier than expect (in 2004) due to the defections of Miami, BC, and Virginia Tech.

 

[Husky25]

True, does any think that Appalachian State will ever be allowed to step foot in Michigan Stadium again?

That is not even a consideration given that the Big Ten will no longer play FCS teams, as a conference.

That ASU game was a shocker on soooooo many levels.

 

[ctchamps]

Who the duck is this guy and why is he here? Go home!

One of the things I like about these forums is to observe posters. It's hard to get a good gauge of our personalities with just the written word but there is enough evidence to get a first impression.

woomba is a big ten guy, like frank, that comes to this forum reminding us of "his" conference's superiority and how UConn is unworthy of joining the club.
frank uses a different style, but in the end the two of them are very similar in that they get pleasure at elevating themselves by putting others down. They are just plain arrogant.
billybudd is more about defending the position of FSU in choosing Ville over UConn. He's not necessarily coming from a place of superiority but naturally, like many of us, loves shining the positive light on the university he roots for with an occasional demeaning statement.
Southroncross and bstimpy strongly feel UConn would be an asset to the ACC and should have been selected from the get go. Southron is here just to have discourse and wants to know more about the northeast and UConn in particular. bstimpy is very confident in his position and actually quite balanced in how he thinks. Reminds me somewhat of businesslawyer. He intrigues me in that he has the attitude to want challenge (UConn, Cuse as bb partners) even if the challenge could adversely impact his alma maters standing.
NickyNewark strongly wants UConn as a partner in the B!G. He's defensive for Rutgers but that is understandable.
B!GALUM, GohperHawk and Gfunk are B!G guys who would love UConn in the B!G, are proud of their conference but have stayed for the most part away from engagement about whose better or worse.

Hope this scorecard helps you and others.

 

[woomba]

True, does any think that Appalachian State will ever be allowed to step foot in Michigan Stadium again?

Next year - although they are no longer FCS.

 

[UConn Dan]

One of the things I like about these forums is to observe posters. It's hard to get a good gauge of our personalities with just the written word but there is enough evidence to get a first impression.

woomba is a big ten guy, like frank, that comes to this forum reminding us of "his" conference's superiority and how UConn is unworthy of joining the club.
frank uses a different style, but in the end the two of them are very similar in that they get pleasure at elevating themselves by putting others down. They are just plain arrogant.
billybudd is more about defending the position of FSU in choosing Ville over UConn. He's not necessarily coming from a place of superiority but naturally, like many of us, loves shining the positive light on the university he roots for with an occasional demeaning statement.
Southroncross and bstimpy strongly feel UConn would be an asset to the ACC and should have been selected from the get go. Southron is here just to have discourse and wants to know more about the northeast and UConn in particular. bstimpy is very confident in his position and actually quite balanced in how he thinks. Reminds me somewhat of businesslawyer. He intrigues me in that he has the attitude to want challenge (UConn, Cuse as bb partners) even if the challenge could adversely impact his alma maters standing.
NickyNewark strongly wants UConn as a partner in the B!G. He's defensive for Rutgers but that is understandable.
B!GALUM, GohperHawk and Gfunk are B!G guys who would love UConn in the B!G, are proud of their conference but have stayed for the most part away from engagement about whose better or worse.

Hope this scorecard helps you and others.

Right on all of them, I can handle all of them, even Frank (he's got a decent blog even if he poo poo's UConn at every chance). Now Woomba is more mysterious, not sure what his intent is on this board. I'm not sure he ever mentioned what team he roots for. He is very knowledgeable, but he comes off very trollish.

 

[Adios]

We have more NCAA championships (16) than Northwestern, Purdue, and Rutgers combined. 1 behind Minnesota and Nebraska. 2 behind Illinois. And 3 behind Michigan State. That's in sports other than football.

Next steps up are 8 behind Indiana and 26 behind Penn State (most in the B1G). We do fit in very well. With our women's bball program, we can eclipse Michigan State. Better than 7 B1G schools. Not bad at all. Would be nice if we win in soccer and men's bball, too.

 

[ctchamps]

Right on all of them, I can handle all of them, even Frank (he's got a decent blog even if he poo poo's UConn at every chance). Now Woomba is more mysterious, not sure what his intent is on this board. I'm not sure he ever mentioned what team he roots for. He is very knowledgeable, but he comes off very trollish.

I prefer knowledge over ignorance. I'm impressed with those who have balance in their approach to life. Frank is every bit as trollish as woomba if by trollish you mean they enjoy putting someone down. He just carries it out in a manner that is harder to pinpoint.

 

[Adios]

I prefer knowledge over ignorance. I'm impressed with those who have balance in their approach to life. Frank is every bit as trollish as woomba if by trollish you mean they enjoy putting someone down. He just carries it out in a manner that is harder to pinpoint.

They are politicians for the B1G masses. Revolution!

 

[woomba]

Right on all of them, I can handle all of them, even Frank (he's got a decent blog even if he poo poo's UConn at every chance). Now Woomba is more mysterious, not sure what his intent is on this board. I'm not sure he ever mentioned what team he roots for. He is very knowledgeable, but he comes off very trollish.

I went to Michigan for grad school even though I'm originally from NYC.

No real agenda. Realignment talk interests me and this is the only board that looks at it from an NE bent which interests me given my roots

 

[upstater]

Almost all of UConn's good wins have come out of the Big East though - did a quick spot check for UConn against billybud's metric and UConn's best wins were against 2010 WVU, 2011 Rutgers, and 2012 Louisville, none against the P5 conferences.

billybud, unfortunately FSU's scoring record was surpassed during the Rich Rod years :|

UConn hasn't had much opportunity to play ranked teams OOC. In fact, I can't remember ANY ranked OOC teams for UConn since they started BE play other than Oklahoma. They have had games against Notre Dame, South Carolina, Michigan, Baylor, NC State, Virginia, Maryland and the like, but none of those teams were ranked when UConn played them (although some were ranked at points during the seasons UConn played them). UConn won some and lost some. UConn is probably .500 against P5 competition. Not sure what you mean by no wins against the P5. I assume you mean no wins against top ranked P5 teams. if that's what you mean, you have to take into account that they've only played one such game at all in the last decade.

Also, the "best wins" metric inside the BE makes my eyes squirrely, as UConn has beaten ranked Pitt, Cincy and USF teams (the year USF was ranked 3rd early was a year they also lost to UConn). I'm not sure what differentiates a victory over Rutgers from a victory over a ranked Cincy team.

Regardless, I'm sure UConn fans remember different big wins than whatever metric you're using.

 

[ctchamps]

Right on all of them, I can handle all of them, even Frank (he's got a decent blog even if he poo poo's UConn at every chance). Now Woomba is more mysterious, not sure what his intent is on this board. I'm not sure he ever mentioned what team he roots for. He is very knowledgeable, but he comes off very trollish.

woomba is more circumspect. The moment people try to pinpoint him, he'll say something complementary to throw the unsuspecting off. It's a great tactic. I have a knack for seeing through it.

 

[upstater]

One of the things I like about these forums is to observe posters. It's hard to get a good gauge of our personalities with just the written word but there is enough evidence to get a first impression.

woomba is a big ten guy, like frank, that comes to this forum reminding us of "his" conference's superiority and how UConn is unworthy of joining the club.
frank uses a different style, but in the end the two of them are very similar in that they get pleasure at elevating themselves by putting others down. They are just plain arrogant.
billybudd is more about defending the position of FSU in choosing Ville over UConn. He's not necessarily coming from a place of superiority but naturally, like many of us, loves shining the positive light on the university he roots for with an occasional demeaning statement.
Southroncross and bstimpy strongly feel UConn would be an asset to the ACC and should have been selected from the get go. Southron is here just to have discourse and wants to know more about the northeast and UConn in particular. bstimpy is very confident in his position and actually quite balanced in how he thinks. Reminds me somewhat of businesslawyer. He intrigues me in that he has the attitude to want challenge (UConn, Cuse as bb partners) even if the challenge could adversely impact his alma maters standing.
NickyNewark strongly wants UConn as a partner in the B!G. He's defensive for Rutgers but that is understandable.
B!GALUM, GohperHawk and Gfunk are B!G guys who would love UConn in the B!G, are proud of their conference but have stayed for the most part away from engagement about whose better or worse.

Hope this scorecard helps you and others.

woomba is mostly fine. I don't see the problem. Weirdly, Frank is more trollish than all of the other posters mentioned. When he's cornered with statistics, he resorts to, "Then why hasn't UConn landed a spot?" argument. His last recourse. Other fans at least acknowledge the kind of revenue UConn brings in and its TV presence in 2 top 30 markets. They also acknowledged that UConn has managed to put more than its share of players in the NFL, twice having 5 players drafted in a 4 year span.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Next year - although they are no longer FCS.

Wow, I did not catch that.

Apparently U Michigan’s fan base did and are not happy.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/31564595

 

[ctchamps]

woomba is mostly fine. I don't see the problem. Weirdly, Frank is more trollish than all of the other posters mentioned. When he's cornered with statistics, he resorts to, "Then why hasn't UConn landed a spot?" argument. His last recourse. Other fans at least acknowledge the kind of revenue UConn brings in and its TV presence in 2 top 30 markets. They also acknowledged that UConn has managed to put more than its share of players in the NFL, twice having 5 players drafted in a 4 year span.

woomba enjoys CR as he stated. That's obvious. And he is more likely to have discourse than frank when engaged. And perhaps he is flexible about his attitude and not entrenched. But there have been posts he's made which are not much different than franks, imo, in the way he views the world outside the B!G. Perhaps he's a debater, like yourself, and his approach, like yours, is to engage to determine if the poster merits respect. He certainly respects you. And that means it isn't an attitude that I'm sensing but a misinterpretation of his style. If that's the case I'll reexamine my position. I'm not invested in being right.

But my hunch is that he is very clever at obscuring his real persona through the manipulation of ideas. And Butch in his joking may have hit the nail on the head!

They are politicians for the B1G masses. Revolution!

 

[junglehusky]

Regarding the hypothetical situation where UConn could choose between the B1G and the ACC, my feeling was that UConn folks with research background would prefer the B1G, while the undergrad education / admissions and athletics people would prefer the ACC. We all know about the AAU and that would be a political boost to UConn's research enterprise, and in the hypothetical situation where we can get in the B1G and AAU, that would mean we've already made strides in building out the research infrastructure and faculty hires. B1G membership and CIC would be icing on the cake and would help consolidate those gains going forward.

I wrote a post last year about the admissions side of things, how UConn wants to bring in out-of-state students from the eastern seaboard and how the ACC would provide those benefits. UConn wants to attract HS kids who are also applying to schools like UVA, UNC, as well as Wisconsin, Michigan... the highest regarded state schools (and those kids also apply to Duke, Northwestern, the Ivies, Patriot league and NESCAC schools). This relates to the demographics trends... UConn would like to attract more valedectorians from Virgina, the Carolinas and Florida. However with the B1G expansion, the B1G would offer UConn to ability to put its academic brand to attract students in the MD/DC area, solidify NJ and PA (UConn already draws significant numbers from these states) and maybe increase its presence in Ohio and around Chicago. So I think the preference there is still the ACC, but the B1G wouldn't be a huge step down and would obviously be better than the AAC.

As far as athletics, there is an argument that flying to florida in the same time zone is better than flying to Texas and back with the time change. And this travel doesn't affect football as much as it affects the olympic sports, volleyball, etc. Fans can debate whether UConn football would fare better record-wise in the ACC, if the quality of bball competition would be worse in the B1G, but I think those questions would actually be secondary to questions about a) revenue b) conference stability in the hypothetical "who would you choose?" question. And besides that, for whatever preferences UConn might have with regards to research, admission, and athletics.... we're saying yes to whoever invites us first.

 

[upstater]

woomba enjoys CR as he stated. That's obvious. And he is more likely to have discourse than frank when engaged. And perhaps he is flexible about his attitude and not entrenched. But there have been posts he's made which are not much different than franks, imo, in the way he views the world outside the B!G. Perhaps he's a debater, like yourself, and his approach, like yours, is to engage to determine if the poster merits respect. He certainly respects you. And that means it isn't an attitude that I'm sensing but a misinterpretation of his style. If that's the case I'll reexamine my position. I'm not invested in being right.

But my hunch is that he is very clever at obscuring his real persona through the manipulation of ideas. And Butch in his joking may have hit the nail on the head!

I don't visit message boards of teams I'm not a fan of, but if I did and thought it was worth engaging, I'd probably make similar arguments. All I'd ask is that people have support for what they're saying. I have no doubt that people have misconceptions about UConn and don't think much of them. That being said, it's kind of stunning that Frank built this rep and yet he's the most closeminded of the bunch.

 

[ctchamps]

I don't visit message boards of teams I'm not a fan of, but if I did and thought it was worth engaging, I'd probably make similar arguments. All I'd ask is that people have support for what they're saying. I have no doubt that people have misconceptions about UConn and don't think much of them. That being said, it's kind of stunning that Frank built this rep and yet he's the most closeminded of the bunch.

Because people were enamored with his knowledge and credentials. Eventually more and more recognized the attitude shortcomings. (close-minded, arrogant, stand offish)

I don't have many rules about posting. But in specific situations I'll jump in. I'm very wary of mob mentality where emotions are gaining development in the masses that are not being tempered by reason. Thus if someone is flaming in a thread and is being taken to task I'm not in the least bit concerned unless the group is getting out the rope to hang the individual (emotionally I mean). Then I feel the need to speak up.

The other is teaching moments where I suspect there is a lot of confusion or misunderstanding of things about who we are and why we do the things we do.

 

[UConn Dan]

I went to Michigan for grad school even though I'm originally from NYC.

No real agenda. Realignment talk interests me and this is the only board that looks at it from an NE bent which interests me given my roots

OK... welcome.

Sorry I told you to duck off earlier. That's what happens when I don't read an entire sequence.

Edited for clarity.

 

[woomba]

UConn hasn't had much opportunity to play ranked teams OOC. In fact, I can't remember ANY ranked OOC teams for UConn since they started BE play other than Oklahoma. They have had games against Notre Dame, South Carolina, Michigan, Baylor, NC State, Virginia, Maryland and the like, but none of those teams were ranked when UConn played them (although some were ranked at points during the seasons UConn played them). UConn won some and lost some. UConn is probably .500 against P5 competition. Not sure what you mean by no wins against the P5. I assume you mean no wins against top ranked P5 teams. if that's what you mean, you have to take into account that they've only played one such game at all in the last decade.

Also, the "best wins" metric inside the BE makes my eyes squirrely, as UConn has beaten ranked Pitt, Cincy and USF teams (the year USF was ranked 3rd early was a year they also lost to UConn). I'm not sure what differentiates a victory over Rutgers from a victory over a ranked Cincy team.

Regardless, I'm sure UConn fans remember different big wins than whatever metric you're using.

Well, that's what happens if we look at end of season rankings Sometimes we (as fans) forget that teams that were ranked when our teams played them ended the season poorly while the opposite can also happen.

Looking at the rankings it looks like outside of Oklahoma the only other opponent UConn played that ended the season ranked was 2006 Wake Forest - they ended #18 after going 11-3 so you're right that UConn hasn't had that many opportunities. I thought 2007 Virginia would also be on that list but it looks like they just missed the Top 25 despite going 9-4.

 

[woomba]

OK... welcome.

Sorry I told you to duck earlier. That's what happens when I don't read an entire sequence.

NP - being passionate for your home team is a great thing.

 

[JayRU09]

Top level OOC schools never took much interest in recent years scheduling RU/UConn/Cincy.

Schools that play tough fast defense and aren't the highest level national draws aren't worth it to these schools.

You'll get one every so often but not on a regular basis.

 

[Sea Goat]

NP - being passionate for your home team is a great thing.

Besides, we need some provocative stuff on these blogs anyways. Otherwise it becomes an exercise in buying into you're own propaganda.

 

[UConn Dan]

Besides, we need some provocative stuff on these blogs anyways. Otherwise it becomes an exercise in buying into you're own propaganda.

I drink the koolaid!

 

[billybud]

I am a college football junky and have been for a lifetime.

One's viewpoint is most often a function of one's vantage point. And I have found that our vantage points are widely varied depending on region, conference and program.

I do bring a different perspective to a NE board, that of a North Florida Seminole fan. Sometimes we want everybody to see the world as we do...but the fact is, by discussing CR on board of another region, I access a different view than I get from my conference cronies' boards. And, you will get a different view from me.

Some may take umbrage to that view. I view it all as education and entertainment and don't begrudge anyone their viewpoint. Like all of us, I do believe in simple rules.

State your opinion honestly, explain your reasoning, try not to get personal nor ugly with a poster and avoid "kiddie board" smack talk.

We all have that natural bias based on our vantage point and experiences.....

 

[RMoore1999]

I am a college football junky and have been for a lifetime.

One's viewpoint is most often a function of one's vantage point. And I have found that our vantage points are widely varied depending on region, conference and program.

I do bring a different perspective to a NE board, that of a North Florida Seminole fan. Sometimes we want everybody to see the world as we do...but the fact is, by discussing CR on board of another region, I access a different view than I get from my conference cronies' boards. And, you will get a different view from me.

Some may take umbrage to that view. I view it all as education and entertainment and don't begrudge anyone their viewpoint. Like all of us, I do believe in simple rules.

State your opinion honestly, explain your reasoning, try not to get personal nor ugly with a poster and avoid "kiddie board" smack talk.

We all have that natural bias based on our vantage point and experiences.....

Very rationally stated. Now please provide an "insider's" advice as to who at FSU we need pics on should the B1G door ever officially close and the ACC becomes our only other option.

 

[NickyNewark]

Of course B1G fans will talk up Rutgers...they have an ownership motive.

I think that you would find that the SEC fan's view of Rutgers to be not dissimilar to that of ACC fans. It is just that UAB and Troy are better known in the south than Rutgers.

Most regions are myopic and disregard programs from other regions...I know that the Big Ten was dismissive of FSU years ago...until FSU went up there and beat Ohio State (twice in back to back years in Columbus), beat Michigan State twice and set the scoring record in Michigan's Big House in Ann Arbor.

The way to build respect is to beat teams of a known quality. The "gold standard" for a quality win is a win over a team that is End Year Ranked. These teams, by definition, will win 80% of their games.

Rutgers, since 2000, has never beaten a team from another conference who is End Year Ranked (AP or Coaches). They have won 10% of their games with teams that are End Year Ranked....(3-28-0 or .097 win record). The three wins were Cincinnati (X2) and WVU.

The path to football respect is paved by winning against quality teams. Win and respect follows.

Very sensible unlike Stimpy....I remember in the 80s RU playing with undermanned 1AA type rosters going up to play UTenn and the local paper said "Whats A Rutgers?"...RU shut them out 13-0 I believe and Alabama came to NY/NJ(nationally televised) around that same time and barely escaped w/a win and they never gave us a game since and the same story with UFla in Gainesville in the 80s I believe but as 29pt dogs we played them to a draw and in "88" we beat PSU 21-16?I believe at there house!!So I understand the metric and know what has to be done!Heck it wasn't long ago Oregon was looked down on and Wiscky too !!I and anyone aware of east coast FB can see something happening at least with the FB team at RU...a slow gradual buzz especially among young recruits is happening there and you'd have to be unaware or dishonest to dismiss it!BillyBudd,I detect no sarcasm or trollish behaviour from you and like your avatar and USMC service and you actually contribute an honest southern viewpoint w/o stimps arrogance so welcome to the Northeast and I look forward to reading more of your posts!!Semper Fi Do or Die!!!....BTW I never bothered to check all those stats you posted it just ain't important enough to waste that much time to me and I'm happy and confident in where we "RU" are!But until UConn gets justice I won't truly enjoy FB season's as much as I should!!