B1G, ACC battle for New York

[jostar1]

As I wrote last fall, the Big Ten's addition of Rutgers and Maryland was motivated more by its existing product than either of the new members. While Rutgers gives the Big Ten a boost in the New York/New Jersey market, the real victory is being able to showcase bigger products like Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State more often. New York has the University of Michigan's third largest concentration of alumni outside of Detroit and Chicago. Ohio State has more alumni in New York than any other out-of-state region except for Washington D.C./Northern Virginia. Penn State has nearly 30,000 alumni in the New York-New Jersey market.

The Big Ten has made not only New York, but the entire northeast corridor its top priority in the next few years as it starts the process of negotiating what will be a massive new television contract.


http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/category/_/name/big-ten-conference

 

[Rumrunner]

Seemingly random pieces of a jigsaw puzzle are starting to make more sense...Dodd's comments, combined with the battle for New York, especially New York media and tv...

 

[coachcap]

You know, the B1G has been very New York centric for years. Back in the 80s, before the Feds started taxing cable companies for broadcasting more than two out of area television stations (i.e. back when Southington got both Channel 8-New Haven & Channel 7-NY), the New York station would consistently deliver the B1G game of the week, while the local station would broadcast Miami, FSU, or a SWC-Big 12 game as the first game of a Saturday double header.

 

[Adios]

The Big Ten has made not only New York, but the entire northeast corridor its top priority in the next few years as it starts the process of negotiating what will be a massive new television contract.

That would leave us and UVA as all that's left to be taken. Sweet.

 

[upstater]

As I wrote last fall, the Big Ten's addition of Rutgers and Maryland was motivated more by its existing product than either of the new members. While Rutgers gives the Big Ten a boost in the New York/New Jersey market, the real victory is being able to showcase bigger products like Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State more often. New York has the University of Michigan's third largest concentration of alumni outside of Detroit and Chicago. Ohio State has more alumni in New York than any other out-of-state region except for Washington D.C./Northern Virginia. Penn State has nearly 30,000 alumni in the New York-New Jersey market.

The Big Ten has made not only New York, but the entire northeast corridor its top priority in the next few years as it starts the process of negotiating what will be a massive new television contract.


http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/category/_/name/big-ten-conference

I keep saying this to B1G visitors on this board, but no one ever answers. The B1G was unable to parlay PSU's huge popularity in Eastern Pa. into high fees for BTN, so what makes anyone think Rutgers or the B1G can do in NYC what they couldn't do in Eastern Pa.?

 

[Adios]

I keep saying this to B1G visitors on this board, but no one ever answers. The B1G was unable to parlay PSU's huge popularity in Eastern Pa. into high fees for BTN, so what makes anyone think Rutgers or the B1G can do in NYC what they couldn't do in Eastern Pa.?

Rivalries = must see TV = money. The B1G has to develop rivalries east of Ohio.

 

[upstater]

Rivalries = must see TV = money. The B1G has to develop rivalries east of Ohio.

How does that answer the question?
I hope you're not saying PSU v. Rutgers.
You're saying Ohio St. v. PSU? But that's already available. It's on ABC each and every year.

All those Michigan, PSU, Ohio St. fans in NYC already exist. Why hasn't the BTN raised rates already? Because Rutgers wasn't part of it?

 

[RegisteredUconn]

The battle sounds like it'll be more of a massacre. The ACC's problem is that, with the possible exception of North Carolina, they own no major markets when it comes to football. Florida, the Gators. Georgia, Bulldogs. South Carolina, Gamecocks. Virginia, maybe at one time, but Maryland moving to the B1G puts the population centers in play. Pennsylvania, Penn State. New York and New England, open for discussion but definitely not BC and unlikely to be Syracuse.

Whatever opportunity the ACC had to own the North Atlantic coast they pissed away when they opted for Syracuse and Pitt instead of Rutgers and UConn.

 

[woomba]

I keep saying this to B1G visitors on this board, but no one ever answers. The B1G was unable to parlay PSU's huge popularity in Eastern Pa. into high fees for BTN, so what makes anyone think Rutgers or the B1G can do in NYC what they couldn't do in Eastern Pa.?

I don't think the Big Ten expects Rutgers to take greater carriage fees in NJ / part of NYC at all. Rutgers and Maryland are looked on more to increase general basic coverage to get to a level on par with other Big Ten states rather than increase the carriage fee for the core states.


For general carriage fee increases, 3 things to note:

1) The bulk of the current carriage fee is based on BTN's longterm deal with Comcast (which is the most popular cable provider in the Big Ten footprint) back in 2008 - sports carriage fees in general have gone up since then so it'll inch up on its own to a certain extent whenever that is renegotiated.

2) After the current contract with ESPN is up in 2016, BTN is expected to hold back more of the T2 FB/BB inventory for BTN to raise interest in the channel (and raise the carriage rates)

3)The start of Big Ten Hockey this year and Lacrosse next year is expected to have a positive effect as well

 

[buggsy]

How does that answer the question?
I hope you're not saying PSU v. Rutgers.
You're saying Ohio St. v. PSU? But that's already available. It's on ABC each and every year.

All those Michigan, PSU, Ohio St. fans in NYC already exist. Why hasn't the BTN raised rates already? Because Rutgers wasn't part of it?

What's not to understand? Rutgers has appeared in 4 out of the 5 highest rated ESPN games in the NYC market, including number 1....and all five of the highest rated games on ESPN2 in the NYC market.

And they got those ratings NOT playing powers like Penn State, Ohio State and Michigan. Just wait to you see the rating for RU-PSU game in NYC as well as in the Philly market?

It will be through the roof....so yes, Rutgers will play a role in NYC...and will also help the Big Ten Network charge more for the channel in the Philadelphia market because of RU's growing popularity in South Jersey, where there are nearly 100,000 alumni in the southern half of the state of NJ.

Don't see why this is so hard for you to understand, except for the fact that it bothers you to accept it.

RU football leads all college football coverage on all the NYC TV stations during the fall. That is only going to increase now that RU will be playing Nebraska and Mich and Ohio State. Especially when we knock off one of the bigs.

I don't even think it would be that much of of an upset right now if we knock off Penn State.

 

[upstater]

What's not to understand? Rutgers has appeared in 4 out of the 5 highest rated ESPN games in the NYC market, including number 1....and all five of the highest rated games on ESPN2 in the NYC market.

And they got those ratings NOT playing powers like Penn State, Ohio State and Michigan. Just wait to you see the rating for RU-PSU game in NYC as well as in the Philly market?

It will be through the roof....so yes, Rutgers will play a role in NYC...and will also help the Big Ten Network charge more for the channel in the Philadelphia market because of RU's growing popularity in South Jersey, where there are nearly 100,000 alumni in the southern half of the state of NJ.

Don't see why this is so hard for you to understand, except for the fact that it bothers you to accept it.

RU football leads all college football coverage on all the NYC TV stations during the fall. That is only going to increase now that RU will be playing Nebraska and Mich and Ohio State. Especially when we knock off one of the bigs.

I don't even think it would be that much of of an upset right now if we knock off Penn State.

Rutgers has played PSU in the recent past, numerous times. On a 1 to 10 scale, that game does a 1.

Ohio St, Penn State and Michigan couldn't put the BTN over the top in NYC, they had to add Rutgers.

PSU can't cut it in Eastern Pa., but Rutgers will be a godsend in NYC.

 

[upstater]

I don't think the Big Ten expects Rutgers to take greater carriage fees in NJ / part of NYC at all. Rutgers and Maryland are looked on more to increase general basic coverage to get to a level on par with other Big Ten states rather than increase the carriage fee for the core states.


For general carriage fee increases, 3 things to note:

1) The bulk of the current carriage fee is based on BTN's longterm deal with Comcast (which is the most popular cable provider in the Big Ten footprint) back in 2008 - sports carriage fees in general have gone up since then so it'll inch up on its own to a certain extent whenever that is renegotiated.

2) After the current contract with ESPN is up in 2016, BTN is expected to hold back more of the T2 FB/BB inventory for BTN to raise interest in the channel (and raise the carriage rates)

3)The start of Big Ten Hockey this year and Lacrosse next year is expected to have a positive effect as well

My main point is still undiscussed. Carriage fees in Eastern Pa. are 1/3rd of what they are elsewhere in B1G stateds. You say they want to increase coverage to be on par with B1G states, rather than increase fees in those core states. But I wasn't talking about the core states. I was talking about Eastern Pa. and NYC/NJ.

What makes NYC/NJ different than Eastern Pa.?

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I keep saying this to B1G visitors on this board, but no one ever answers. The B1G was unable to parlay PSU's huge popularity in Eastern Pa. into high fees for BTN, so what makes anyone think Rutgers or the B1G can do in NYC what they couldn't do in Eastern Pa.?

Whether or not any visitors or regulars here think the B1G can parlay Penn State and Rutgers (and Maryland) into significant revenues from NYC (and eastern PA, and NJ, and MD, and northern VA), it's patently obvious that's the plan. If that's their plan, the B1G must think it can be done.

My contention is that NYC is too big for Rutgers to deliver by itself. They need a local partner to generate the kind of interest that will make Rutgers relevant beyond New Brunswick. That's where we come in.

 

[SubbaBub]

My main point is still undiscussed. Carriage fees in Eastern Pa. are 1/3rd of what they are elsewhere in B1G stateds. You say they want to increase coverage to be on par with B1G states, rather than increase fees in those core states. But I wasn't talking about the core states. I was talking about Eastern Pa. and NYC/NJ.

What makes NYC/NJ different than Eastern Pa.?

Matching fees to those in current markets may not be the goal. If the goal is to average fees at a certain level, matching or not, then a strategy to get what you can out of NYC and make up the difference in NJ and CT.

If you get 0.40/mo each in NYC and $1.50 in NJ and $2.50 in CT that's a good chunk of change maybe around 80m/year. Someone else can run the real numbers. The key is reaching critical.mass for carriage on the basic tier. The fee (in NYC) is secondary.

For CT, we'd have to make up the difference to be invited.


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[woomba]

My main point is still undiscussed. Carriage fees in Eastern Pa. are 1/3rd of what they are elsewhere in B1G stateds. You say they want to increase coverage to be on par with B1G states, rather than increase fees in those core states. But I wasn't talking about the core states. I was talking about Eastern Pa. and NYC/NJ.

What makes NYC/NJ different than Eastern Pa.?

Are you sure about the 1/3 number? You might be confusing it with SNY's carriage fees - I remember you drawing a comparison between the two a few months back.

Penn is part of the original 8 core states and gets about $.70 throughout the state, including Philly, which is the same as the $.70-.80 average that is the part of the Comcast contract throughout the rest of the BTN states. BTN's deals with DISH and TWC is a bit over $1 but reaches less people so the overall average is something like $.95.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...Network-Complete-Long-Term-Carriage-Deal.aspx

 

[upstater]

Are you sure about the 1/3 number? You might be confusing it with SNY's carriage fees - I remember you drawing a comparison between the two a few months back.

Penn is part of the original 8 core states and gets about $.70 throughout the state, including Philly, which is the same as the $.70-.80 average that is the part of the Comcast contract throughout the rest of the BTN states. BTN's deals with DISH and TWC is a bit over $1 but reaches less people so the overall average is something like $.95.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...Network-Complete-Long-Term-Carriage-Deal.aspx

I was referring to the Eastern half of the state where it's been often quoted on the PSU board at .30. But even this article shows that it's on expanded cable and not the basic tier. Then again, the link is from 2008. The PSU guys often discuss the low rates for BTN in Eastern Pa. compared to the core areas in the midwest.

Comcast will "not preview [BTN] in the Philadelphia area and will carry it right away in the digital tier"

The same PSU posters claim the rates in Michigan, Ohio and such places are $1.00 per sub. Is it really only .70?

 

[upstater]

Just to be clear: I'm asking a question, not making a prediction that it won't happen. I have no idea what makes the dynamics different in Rutgers' case than PSU's case in Eastern Pa.

 

[pj]

Clearly, PSU+Rutgers+Md > PSU only in Philly. Mich+OSU+PSU+Rutgers > Mich+OSU+PSU in NYC.

But, what Rutgers football brings to the NYC DMA, UConn basketball brings -- just as big an audience and just as many months of the year. Rutgers carries NJ, UConn creates B1G interest in most of NE.

I don't see why we would downgrade what Rutgers brings. It brings a lot to the B1G. UConn brings something similar, just a little farther up the eastern seaboard. If Rutgers fails the B1G, then UConn probably would too. But I don't think Rutgers will fail.

 

[woomba]

I was referring to the Eastern half of the state where it's been often quoted on the PSU board at .30. But even this article shows that it's on expanded cable and not the basic tier. Then again, the link is from 2008. The PSU guys often discuss the low rates for BTN in Eastern Pa. compared to the core areas in the midwest.

That's interesting. I've never heard of that number being thrown out before but what I'm guessing is going on is the fact that certain regional cable operators that operate in Penn (Blue Ridge, Armstrong, and a few others) do not offer BTN so they might be averaging the two numbers.

The same PSU posters claim the rates in Michigan, Ohio and such places are $1.00 per sub. Is it really only .70?

That's probably referring to the national average rate. which is a bit under $1.00 / sub like I mentioned earlier. AFAIK the sub rates are negotiated on a per cable operator basis with the main distinction being a core state vs non-core.

That said, more viewers in the more rural states use Dish/Direct-TV who are paying a higher rate than Comcast so the end result is that Western states are paying a higher sub than a state that's mainly Comcast (which is paying the least out of the all the deals that BTN has).

 

[btstimpy]

That would leave us and UVA as all that's left to be taken. Sweet.

UVA is not interested in the Big Ten Conference. The Big Ten has already approached UVA with an offer to join, and UVA said "Thanks, but No Thanks." Then UVA signed the Grant of Rights to the ACC. With the demographic shift nationally and population growth rates in the Southern part of the ACC footprint, the ACC has the potential to become second to only the SEC regarding football because the ACC has access to many of the same states as the SEC for high school recruiting. The population is shifting away from the Big Ten footprint and into the ACC, SEC, and Pac 12 footprints. That's why the Big Ten was trying to reach into the ACC footprint for members. Only Maryland took the bait because Maryland's athletic program is once again broke. They went broke in the 80s, again in the 90s, and again now. They will be broke in the Big Ten at some point.

As for New York City, the ACC will be well represented with Notre Dame football and Syracuse basketball. Rutgers hasn't been a factor in college sports for the 35 years I've been following college sports. I don't know if being a doormat in that Big Ten Eastern football division will change this. I don't know how well the average New York City sports fan will view supporting a doormat. It's the same for Maryland in Washinton, DC. At least Maryland can play men's basketball. How many men's basketball championship games did Rutgers play in while they were in the Big East? Did they even play in any semifinal games?

I would like to see Connecticut in the ACC someday. We are all waiting to see what Notre Dame is going to do longer term. For the next dozen years, Notre Dame football will be playing in the ACC. Right now it is 5 games per year. Maybe this Division 4 move will have an impact on them, and they will increase to 8 games and be eligible to play for the ACC Championship. Then the ACC will need another member.

 

[NickyNewark]

UVA is not interested in the Big Ten Conference. The Big Ten has already approached UVA with an offer to join, and UVA said "Thanks, but No Thanks." Then UVA signed the Grant of Rights to the ACC. With the demographic shift nationally and population growth rates in the Southern part of the ACC footprint, the ACC has the potential to become second to only the SEC regarding football because the ACC has access to many of the same states as the SEC for high school recruiting. The population is shifting away from the Big Ten footprint and into the ACC, SEC, and Pac 12 footprints. That's why the Big Ten was trying to reach into the ACC footprint for members. Only Maryland took the bait because Maryland's athletic program is once again broke. They went broke in the 80s, again in the 90s, and again now. They will be broke in the Big Ten at some point.

As for New York City, the ACC will be well represented with Notre Dame football and Syracuse basketball. Rutgers hasn't been a factor in college sports for the 35 years I've been following college sports. I don't know if being a doormat in that Big Ten Eastern football division will change this. I don't know how well the average New York City sports fan will view supporting a doormat. It's the same for Maryland in Washinton, DC. At least Maryland can play men's basketball. How many men's basketball championship games did Rutgers play in while they were in the Big East? Did they even play in any semifinal games?

I would like to see Connecticut in the ACC someday. We are all waiting to see what Notre Dame is going to do longer term. For the next dozen years, Notre Dame football will be playing in the ACC. Right now it is 5 games per year. Maybe this Division 4 move will have an impact on them, and they will increase to 8 games and be eligible to play for the ACC Championship. Then the ACC will need another member.

@I warned you Stimpycuse about boasting before RU got the B1G invite and Im sure you were gloating about SU's good fortune then at RU and UConn's expense on all the Cuse boards!?!?Come out of hiding cuse fan!!

 

[specialisthusky]

@I warned you Stimpycuse about boasting before RU got the B1G invite and Im sure you were gloating about SU's good fortune then at RU and UConn's expense on all the Cuse boards!?!?Come out of hiding cuse fan!!

Just come out of hiding else where please

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[RS9999X]

My main point is still undiscussed. Carriage fees in Eastern Pa. are 1/3rd of what they are elsewhere in B1G stateds. You say they want to increase coverage to be on par with B1G states, rather than increase fees in those core states. But I wasn't talking about the core states. I was talking about Eastern Pa. and NYC/NJ.

What makes NYC/NJ different than Eastern Pa.?

Factor in RU and MD in Eastern PA and that eliminates the competition. I expect Eastern PA cable to fold. A couple small hold outs? Maybe. Ohio had one small holdout. I think its same company. Then there's raw numbers. Jim Thorpseville holding out doesn't move the dial much.

 

[RS9999X]

88% penetration in PA after Metrocast folded its hand.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/08/big_ten_football_network.html

The BiG is stubbornly insisting on their $1 a month on the non premium tiers.

Its still one of two good choices in NYC. I don't see that changing. They might be content with that.

 

[upstater]

Factor in RU and MD in Eastern PA and that eliminates the competition. I expect Eastern PA cable to fold. A couple small hold outs? Maybe. Ohio had one small holdout. I think its same company. Then there's raw numbers. Jim Thorpseville holding out doesn't move the dial much.

That's PSU's bread & butter though. Bucks County, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, Harrisburg, Allentown, Reading. That's where it all happens for PSU.