ACC football.

[itgoeslike]

Over the last decade, FSU has often squandered talent-ladened teams through inconsistent play and lapses in football I.Q. This year, with very few exceptions, they've executed exceptionally well on offense, defense, and special teams. I'm sure FSU wins. . . Losing to Duke in the last week of the season when ranked number 1 in the nation would be hard for FSU fans to stomach.

 

[billybud]

Hard! Hard you say!

The police would cordon off all buildings over three stories....

 

[itgoeslike]

Most friends that root for FSU think they couldn't be sitting prettier while a couple of friends think this could be the ultimate set up. . .

 

[pj]

I thought FSU was the #1 team 2 months ago, and they've just gotten better. I don't see them losing whoever they play.

But I think the ups and downs of various teams, eg Baylor, Missouri, illustrate that there's a lot of parity in college football. A few teams like Alabama and FSU manage to get outstanding players all over the field, but most teams have weaknesses and strengths and with proper coaching a school can rise quickly.

 

[Gfunk]

Holy cow. You have some of the thinnest skin repeatedly on these boards. Why on earth are you going after my point about Wisconsin's weak schedule. It's the whole context behind what I wrote. Lordy.

Thin skin? Not at all. Not sure if I even made a point about Wisky's schedule, which wasn't great, but certainly not bad. They did play BYU, not necessarily great this year, and the Cougars load a pretty thick, national schedule, so you can compare Wisconsin's performances with other solid to great teams who played BYU. Wisky also played ASU & we know they are playing for the Pac12 title, a conference that was pretty strong, perhaps the best in terms of top to bottom competition.

As for the rest of what you said, stand down brother, I haven't an ounce of disrespect for you, your alias, I know we're on the Internet. I don't come on sports boards much, minus Frank the Tank and pretty much here, & I don't put too much into college sports at the end of the day, quite a few other priorities & hobbies in my life. What I post on sports boards pales in comparison to my field, urban-regional planning. Hell I post more on music or film related boards.

 

[SouthronCross]

FSU is overrated. They beat NO ONE. The ACCis incredibly weak and they and OSU benefitted from down years in thier respective conferences.

Miami and Duke would not make it out of the SEC with winning records. Heck, Duke would not finish in the top 2 in the AAC.

Having a NC game w/FSU and OSU sparring is a perfect way for the BCS to end -- let the better teams watch the games from their couches. Then again, I think OSU gets knocked off this weekend.

Critics said that about the Noles back in the late '80s, and, in the '90s, but, they seldom lost to OOC foes, UF and Miami aside.

With the way Jimbo Fisher is recruiting, and, developing players, they might be gearing up for another long run similar to that time period.

They are scary good.

 

[SouthronCross]

There is this year...with Mizzou, Bama, Auburm , South Carolina...(with Georgia and Florida hurt with injuries)

In another year it has been Florida, Georgia, LSU, Bama, Arkansas...the same teams may not be at the top of the conference...but the SEC has been pretty consistent at putting up a strong slate of five teams...

Teams like Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, LSU and Georgia rotate in and out....

Since the BCS started....Tennessee has won an NC...Bama has won three, Florida two, LSU and Auburn one each.

Teams like Mississippi and Mississippi St. have had some good years in the last five and ended up in the final AP Rankings...even Vandy made the Final Top 25 last year.

LSU also has two BCS titles...'03 and '07.

 

[btstimpy]

Everyone is blasting Ohio State but Florida St should be held to the same standard. OSU will have beaten Michigan St and Wisconsin. Florida St will have beaten Miami and Clemson.

I have to say, I'm not going to make a huge differentiation between Miami, Clemson, Michigan St, and Wisconsin.

Yes. But Ohio State just gave up 41 points to an unranked Michigan squad, 35 points to an unranked Illinois squad, and struggled to get out of Northwestern by 10. Michigan is the only one of these that has a winning record at 7-5. I guarantee that FSU would much prefer the game with OSU than a dogfight with Auburn or Alabama. FSU still has to beat Duke, but it shouldn't be much trouble.

 

[White Dwarf]

I live in ACC country and I find the ACC FB games pretty damn entertaining. <shrug>

 

[billybud]

Thin skin? Not at all. Not sure if I even made a point about Wisky's schedule, which wasn't great, but certainly not bad. They did play BYU, not necessarily great this year, and the Cougars load a pretty thick, national schedule, so you can compare Wisconsin's performances with other solid to great teams who played BYU. Wisky also played ASU & we know they are playing for the Pac12 title, a conference that was pretty strong, perhaps the best in terms of top to bottom competition.

As for the rest of what you said, stand down brother, I haven't an ounce of disrespect for you, your alias, I know we're on the Internet. I don't come on sports boards much, minus Frank the Tank and pretty much here, & I don't put too much into college sports at the end of the day, quite a few other priorities & hobbies in my life. What I post on sports boards pales in comparison to my field, urban-regional planning. Hell I post more on music or film related boards.

LOL...10 loss Virginia did have one BCS win......over BYU. I would very quietly mention BYU as a "worthy opponent".

 

[SouthronCross]

I live in ACC country and I find the ACC FB games pretty damn entertaining. <shrug>

Maybe you all can join us eventually. I hope so, anyway.

 

[NickyNewark]

I think his comment was regarding this year only. One could make the argument that these 5 could be split up and be the champions of all the power 5 conferences in the country. Something that no other conference can match, for a lot of power 5 conference teams that is 5 automatic losses right off the bat.

Funny,Mizzou had been a mediocre BIG12 bottomfeeder for year's but in 1 year (in which they luckily avoided LSU+Bama on their schedule) their mentioned as a "power?"....Really,I'm confused? But your "this yr" point is well taken. I'm still having trouble grasping USCe's mentioned as a power school FB/program?Were'nt they generally considered the 2nd best team in their own state to the ACC's Clemson?As for Auburn their 2 absolute miracle finishes from being a 3 loss school not even top 10 worthy but I guess in every team's great yr's luck is involved in a couple of games?

 

[NickyNewark]

Yes. But Ohio State just gave up 41 points to an unranked Michigan squad, 35 points to an unranked Illinois squad, and struggled to get out of Northwestern by 10. Michigan is the only one of these that has a winning record at 7-5. I guarantee that FSU would much prefer the game with OSU than a dogfight with Auburn or Alabama. FSU still has to beat Duke, but it shouldn't be much trouble.

No shame in losing to Northwestern in my eye's...did'nt they "NW" blow out 1 of your bowl eligible team's(SU) this year ? I think Northwestern would have been a top 4 or 5 ACC team this yr at worse ? I mean how strong/good could the ACC be having Dook in the conference championship game this yr ?

 

[btstimpy]

No shame in losing to Northwestern in my eye's...did'nt they "NW" blow out 1 of your bowl eligible team's(SU) this year ? I think Northwestern would have been a top 4 or 5 ACC team this yr at worse ? I mean how strong/good could the ACC be having Dook in the conference championship game this yr ?

Duke would probably win the Big Ten Conference this season, or at least come very close. It is unusual because they have not been this good in decades.

 

[billybud]

Nicky...you aren't a football guy, are you. A random shot at Duke based on the historical fact that Duke isn't a good football team....This year, however, they are a 10 win team with a good quarterback. And ranked. Ranked in football not just in basketball.

Syracuse, at 6-6, is barely bowl eligible but one of the 11 ACC teams who are. Thankfully they had awful Maryland on the schedule and held them to only 3 points for a "gimmme" game.

Ohio State is a good team, but not great....FSU, if it comes down to a match, will be favored by more then one score. And the poster was correct, the Buckeyes would be an easier match for FSU then Auburn or Alabama.

It has to do with the relative athleticism of the defenses.

 

[NickyNewark]

Yes,basically FB and Rugby are my favorite viewing and playing sports though I play a decent game of hoops and still enjoy it but the game today(BB) is not the same game I enjoyed as a youth! I think WBB is much better to watch and enjoy the fundamental skill's below the basket more than watching a 6'10" guy reach up and drop it in.Shot at Duke? Are you kidding? I actually as a NJ native think of Duke/NC are NY/NJ's southern branch team's and almost "to snobby" root for them but the shot was more at the relative perceived strength of the SOS of the ACC team's where outside of FSU I don't see it? Clemson?maybe.."U" paper tigers..VT?past it..BC,I thought they were back until Cuse Saturday,where is this "strong conference"(besides FSU)? I mentioned Duke like I would've said Minnesota if it were the B1G! Let's face it Duke isn't real competition for FSU and probably never will be esp due to their academic restraint's!! If you thought I was taking a shot at Duke you missed my intent. I think FSU is good enough to finally break through this yr and win it all but we'll see? I thought WVU was gonna get waxed by Clemson a couple of yrs ago too? We all seen them lay 70 on em and still scoring!!

 

[NickyNewark]

Duke would probably win the Big Ten Conference this season, or at least come very close. It is unusual because they have not been this good in decades.

I doubt Duke would come in 2nd in the AAC let alone the B1G? But your post's are alway's seen by most of us through neutral eye's as ACCentic. billybuds are less tinged with conference bias as FSU is above the rest and is conference guide-on or flagbearer!

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Yes. But Ohio State just gave up 41 points to an unranked Michigan squad, 35 points to an unranked Illinois squad, and struggled to get out of Northwestern by 10. Michigan is the only one of these that has a winning record at 7-5. I guarantee that FSU would much prefer the game with OSU than a dogfight with Auburn or Alabama. FSU still has to beat Duke, but it shouldn't be much trouble.

Not defending Ohio St; but, I give credit to Ohio St. for beating Michigan. That is a major annual rivalry game regardless of either team’s ranking and right up there with Texas/Oklahoma, Alabama/Auburn, Yanks/Red Sox. Both teams get jacked-up for that game and have it circled on their respective calendars. Winning and losing that game often impacts how long each team’s coach keeps his job. Heck, even politicians get involved with the Ohio governor banning the letter ‘M’ that week. WTF? I wish that UConn football had a game like that.

 

[NickyNewark]

Not defending Ohio St; but, I give credit to Ohio St. for beating Michigan. That is a major annual rivalry game regardless of either team’s ranking and right up there with Texas/Oklahoma, Alabama/Auburn, Yanks/Red Sox. Both teams get jacked-up for that game and have it circled on their respective calendars. Winning and losing that game often impacts how long each team’s coach keeps his job. Heck, even politicians get involved with the Ohio governor banning the letter ‘M’ that week. WTF? I wish that UConn football had a game like that.

In rivalry games the records are almost meaningless !! You don't have to apologize for defending OSU or Urban(as much as I despise him,sleazy)Meyer for 2 years of winning with no WTF games....thats not easy for anyone buts its not just a coincidence. How long has FSU been waiting for the Bobby Bowden yrs to return?This may at last be the yr !

 

[btstimpy]

I doubt Duke would come in 2nd in the AAC let alone the B1G? But your post's are alway's seen by most of us through neutral eye's as ACCentic. billybuds are less tinged with conference bias as FSU is above the rest and is conference guide-on or flagbearer!

Duke's defense is better than Michigan's, and Duke's offense is significantly better than Michigan's. Duke would score 50 ponts on Ohio State. Now Ohio State would score a lot too, but a Duke-Ohio State game would be close. High Scoring and Close. Beyond Ohio State, there isn't anyone else in the Big Ten that Duke couldn't beat. They would have to play well in all the games of course, but they are capable of beating anyone in the Big Ten.

That said, I think Duke will lose badly to Florida State. Ohio State would lose badly to Florida State. If Michigan can hang 41 points on that Ohio State defense. Florida State can hang 70, and Ohio State's offense won't get more than 21 on FSU if they could get that many.

You mention the AAC. I think UCF and Louisville could beat everyone in the Big Ten but Ohio State. They are good teams too. They aren't all that consistent though. UCF had to have heroics to beat Temple. The good news for them is that they did.

 

[upstater]

Duke's defense is better than Michigan's, and Duke's offense is significantly better than Michigan's. Duke would score 50 ponts on Ohio State. Now Ohio State would score a lot too, but a Duke-Ohio State game would be close. High Scoring and Close. Beyond Ohio State, there isn't anyone else in the Big Ten that Duke couldn't beat. They would have to play well in all the games of course, but they are capable of beating anyone in the Big Ten.

That said, I think Duke will lose badly to Florida State. Ohio State would lose badly to Florida State. If Michigan can hang 41 points on that Ohio State defense. Florida State can hang 70, and Ohio State's offense won't get more than 21 on FSU if they could get that many.

You mention the AAC. I think UCF and Louisville could beat everyone in the Big Ten but Ohio State. They are good teams too. They aren't all that consistent though. UCF had to have heroics to beat Temple. The good news for them is that they did.

You're looking at one game and extrapolating a lot from it. Michigan-Ohio State is always a blood feud no matter what.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Thin skin? Not at all. Not sure if I even made a point about Wisky's schedule, which wasn't great, but certainly not bad. They did play BYU, not necessarily great this year, and the Cougars load a pretty thick, national schedule, so you can compare Wisconsin's performances with other solid to great teams who played BYU. Wisky also played ASU & we know they are playing for the Pac12 title, a conference that was pretty strong, perhaps the best in terms of top to bottom competition.

As for the rest of what you said, stand down brother, I haven't an ounce of disrespect for you, your alias, I know we're on the Internet. I don't come on sports boards much, minus Frank the Tank and pretty much here, & I don't put too much into college sports at the end of the day, quite a few other priorities & hobbies in my life. What I post on sports boards pales in comparison to my field, urban-regional planning. Hell I post more on music or film related boards.

The bigger question is why anyone here cares to see a debate about Wisconsin's schedule? Who cares about Wisconsin? How did they even come up in a thread about ACC Football? Wisconsin will go a middling bowl game and doesn't derseve anything better.

 

[freescooter]

The ACC is what is has traditionally been...Florida State and a bunch of average to below average teams. this year sort of reminds me of the early days of Florida State's ACC adventures. I think they went something like 4 years before losing a conference game and another 3 before losing their 2nd ACC game. they are a very good team that plays in a weak league and makes the process worse by playing a whimpy out of conference schedule. They set their schedule with an eye toward going unbeaten. If they can win the ACC, they don't want to muck it up by losing to a real team in a non-conference game.

 

[billybud]

Every now and then...I have to debunk a myth

MYTH...FSU, in their Dynasty Run, Played a Weak Schedule

During the Dynasty run...FSU played a tough Schedule (teams play schedules not conferences).

Both Miami and Florida were in the Top Five Winningest Teams of the 90's...and they blew the schedule up.


This run started in 1987 and ending in the year 2000. Let's compare schedule of the I-A teams over that period.

Florida State played 172 games from 1987 to 2000. Their .887 winning percentage is about 3 percentage points better than the second place team.

Florida State played 35 teams that finished in the top 10. That's 20.3% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 2 teams.

Florida State played 67 teams that finished ranked. That's 39.0% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 3 teams.

Florida State played 104 teams that finished with a winning record. That's 60.5% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 1 team.

Florida State played 90 teams that went to bowls. That's 52.3% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 3 teams.

Florida State's opponents combined for a winning percentage of .595, which is a higher percentage than any other team.

 

[billybud]

Playing Miami and Florida every year in that period (in FSU's second conference...the Big Florida) was much more then the equivalent of playing both Ohio State and Michigan every year...

Additionally, during that period, FSU played another of the Top 5 winningest teams of the 90's, Nebraska...four times and beat them.

I think that we all have regional blinders on...like I don't have a sense for the northeast.

That is why I post on these boards...trying to augment my knowledge and, maybe, just maybe, lessen my personal bias.

 

[NickyNewark]

Every now and then...I have to debunk a myth

MYTH...FSU, in their Dynasty Run, Played a Weak Schedule

During the Dynasty run...FSU played a tough Schedule (teams play schedules not conferences).

Both Miami and Florida were in the Top Five Winningest Teams of the 90's...and they blew the schedule up.

This run started in 1987 and ending in the year 2000. Let's compare schedule of the I-A teams over that period.

Florida State played 172 games from 1987 to 2000. Their .887 winning percentage is about 3 percentage points better than the second place team.

Florida State played 35 teams that finished in the top 10. That's 20.3% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 2 teams.

Florida State played 67 teams that finished ranked. That's 39.0% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 3 teams.

Florida State played 104 teams that finished with a winning record. That's 60.5% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 1 team.

Florida State played 90 teams that went to bowls. That's 52.3% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 3 teams.

Florida State's opponents combined for a winning percentage of .595, which is a higher percentage than any other team.

I think he mean's the last 12 or so yrs after starting his comment about early/mid 90s ACC. Seem's that might have been what triggered the 1st BE raid was lack of "quality" product and possibly subsequent raiding?We all know what the early and BE version of the "U" was. I really don't know what happened at FSU after BB was let go?

 

[HuskyHawk]

You're looking at one game and extrapolating a lot from it. Michigan-Ohio State is always a blood feud no matter what.

And it was in Ann Arbor. You can throw out those rivalry games. I'm not sure Duke would be favored to beat Michigan in Ann Arbor. Ohio State would definitely beat Duke.

 

[NickyNewark]

Duke's defense is better than Michigan's, and Duke's offense is significantly better than Michigan's. Duke would score 50 ponts on Ohio State. Now Ohio State would score a lot too, but a Duke-Ohio State game would be close. High Scoring and Close. Beyond Ohio State, there isn't anyone else in the Big Ten that Duke couldn't beat. They would have to play well in all the games of course, but they are capable of beating anyone in the Big Ten.

That said, I think Duke will lose badly to Florida State. Ohio State would lose badly to Florida State. If Michigan can hang 41 points on that Ohio State defense. Florida State can hang 70, and Ohio State's offense won't get more than 21 on FSU if they could get that many.

You mention the AAC. I think UCF and Louisville could beat everyone in the Big Ten but Ohio State. They are good teams too. They aren't all that consistent though. UCF had to have heroics to beat Temple. The good news for them is that they did.

Damn,you make Duke FB sound like Oregon-Baylor's high flying offense's but if their that good why were'nt the pollsters/writers/coaches voting them appropriately? I was starting to think BC had something going after the FSU game but recent performances tempered that thought!

 

[freescooter]

billy,
In FSU's early ACC years the the ACC was what it is now. A bunch of middling football teams plus Florida State. They didn't lose a game in conference until their 4th season, then went 3 more years without losing a game. I'll give you that they played a much tougher non-conference schedule in those days than they do now. Many teams did. It is the downside of the push for a "true" national champion. It is better to play Bethune-Cookman and Idaho than Notre Dame and Penn State because there's virtually no chance you'll lose to the former, and being 12-0 is most important. It isn't getting any better under the new system, by the way.

 

[billybud]

Did you know that there were more ACC teams in final AP top 25 then Big Ten teams in some of those years...and certainly more ranked teams on FSU's schedule then most.

There just is no educated justification for downplaying FSU's schedule during their run...a knowledgable football person would not do so


Year....Final AP ACC + others.......................................................................................

90.......#2 GT, #3, Miami, Clemson #9, Virginia #23, Florida #13

91.......#1 Miami, Michigan #6, Florida #7, Clemson #18, NC State #24,

92......#3 Miami, #10 Florida, #14 Nebraska, #19 North Carolina

93.....#3 Nebraska, #5 Florida, #19 North Carolina, #23 Clemson

94.....#6 Miami, #7 Florida, #7 Florida (yes...twice), #17 NC State

95.....#2 Florida, #11 Notre Dame, #16 Virginia

96.....#1 Florida, #1 Florida (yes...twice), #10 North Carolina, Miami #14 (and who has had to play the #1 team twice in a season in back to back games..well maybe Alabama -LSU)

97.....#4 Florida, #6 North Carolina, #12 Ohio State

98....#1 Tennessee, #5 Florida, #9 Georgia Tech, #20 Miami

During that nine year period...I don't think any team has played as many games against End Ranked Top Five Teams (the golden measure since, by definition, they win 90% of their games)

FSU played 11 games against Top Five End Ranked teams in these years....22 games against End Ranked Top 10 teams....

Top Ten.. End Ranked Teams are the cream of the crop...they all win a bunch of their games....playing 22 of them in 9 seasons says a bunch about having a tough schedule...