ACC football.

[SouthronCross]

I live in ACC country and I find the ACC FB games pretty damn entertaining. <shrug>

Maybe you all can join us eventually. I hope so, anyway.

 

[NickyNewark]

I think his comment was regarding this year only. One could make the argument that these 5 could be split up and be the champions of all the power 5 conferences in the country. Something that no other conference can match, for a lot of power 5 conference teams that is 5 automatic losses right off the bat.

Funny,Mizzou had been a mediocre BIG12 bottomfeeder for year's but in 1 year (in which they luckily avoided LSU+Bama on their schedule) their mentioned as a "power?"....Really,I'm confused? But your "this yr" point is well taken. I'm still having trouble grasping USCe's mentioned as a power school FB/program?Were'nt they generally considered the 2nd best team in their own state to the ACC's Clemson?As for Auburn their 2 absolute miracle finishes from being a 3 loss school not even top 10 worthy but I guess in every team's great yr's luck is involved in a couple of games?

 

[NickyNewark]

Yes. But Ohio State just gave up 41 points to an unranked Michigan squad, 35 points to an unranked Illinois squad, and struggled to get out of Northwestern by 10. Michigan is the only one of these that has a winning record at 7-5. I guarantee that FSU would much prefer the game with OSU than a dogfight with Auburn or Alabama. FSU still has to beat Duke, but it shouldn't be much trouble.

No shame in losing to Northwestern in my eye's...did'nt they "NW" blow out 1 of your bowl eligible team's(SU) this year ? I think Northwestern would have been a top 4 or 5 ACC team this yr at worse ? I mean how strong/good could the ACC be having Dook in the conference championship game this yr ?

 

[btstimpy]

No shame in losing to Northwestern in my eye's...did'nt they "NW" blow out 1 of your bowl eligible team's(SU) this year ? I think Northwestern would have been a top 4 or 5 ACC team this yr at worse ? I mean how strong/good could the ACC be having Dook in the conference championship game this yr ?

Duke would probably win the Big Ten Conference this season, or at least come very close. It is unusual because they have not been this good in decades.

 

[billybud]

Nicky...you aren't a football guy, are you. A random shot at Duke based on the historical fact that Duke isn't a good football team....This year, however, they are a 10 win team with a good quarterback. And ranked. Ranked in football not just in basketball.

Syracuse, at 6-6, is barely bowl eligible but one of the 11 ACC teams who are. Thankfully they had awful Maryland on the schedule and held them to only 3 points for a "gimmme" game.

Ohio State is a good team, but not great....FSU, if it comes down to a match, will be favored by more then one score. And the poster was correct, the Buckeyes would be an easier match for FSU then Auburn or Alabama.

It has to do with the relative athleticism of the defenses.

 

[NickyNewark]

Yes,basically FB and Rugby are my favorite viewing and playing sports though I play a decent game of hoops and still enjoy it but the game today(BB) is not the same game I enjoyed as a youth! I think WBB is much better to watch and enjoy the fundamental skill's below the basket more than watching a 6'10" guy reach up and drop it in.Shot at Duke? Are you kidding? I actually as a NJ native think of Duke/NC are NY/NJ's southern branch team's and almost "to snobby" root for them but the shot was more at the relative perceived strength of the SOS of the ACC team's where outside of FSU I don't see it? Clemson?maybe.."U" paper tigers..VT?past it..BC,I thought they were back until Cuse Saturday,where is this "strong conference"(besides FSU)? I mentioned Duke like I would've said Minnesota if it were the B1G! Let's face it Duke isn't real competition for FSU and probably never will be esp due to their academic restraint's!! If you thought I was taking a shot at Duke you missed my intent. I think FSU is good enough to finally break through this yr and win it all but we'll see? I thought WVU was gonna get waxed by Clemson a couple of yrs ago too? We all seen them lay 70 on em and still scoring!!

 

[NickyNewark]

Duke would probably win the Big Ten Conference this season, or at least come very close. It is unusual because they have not been this good in decades.

I doubt Duke would come in 2nd in the AAC let alone the B1G? But your post's are alway's seen by most of us through neutral eye's as ACCentic. billybuds are less tinged with conference bias as FSU is above the rest and is conference guide-on or flagbearer!

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Yes. But Ohio State just gave up 41 points to an unranked Michigan squad, 35 points to an unranked Illinois squad, and struggled to get out of Northwestern by 10. Michigan is the only one of these that has a winning record at 7-5. I guarantee that FSU would much prefer the game with OSU than a dogfight with Auburn or Alabama. FSU still has to beat Duke, but it shouldn't be much trouble.

Not defending Ohio St; but, I give credit to Ohio St. for beating Michigan. That is a major annual rivalry game regardless of either team’s ranking and right up there with Texas/Oklahoma, Alabama/Auburn, Yanks/Red Sox. Both teams get jacked-up for that game and have it circled on their respective calendars. Winning and losing that game often impacts how long each team’s coach keeps his job. Heck, even politicians get involved with the Ohio governor banning the letter ‘M’ that week. WTF? I wish that UConn football had a game like that.

 

[NickyNewark]

Not defending Ohio St; but, I give credit to Ohio St. for beating Michigan. That is a major annual rivalry game regardless of either team’s ranking and right up there with Texas/Oklahoma, Alabama/Auburn, Yanks/Red Sox. Both teams get jacked-up for that game and have it circled on their respective calendars. Winning and losing that game often impacts how long each team’s coach keeps his job. Heck, even politicians get involved with the Ohio governor banning the letter ‘M’ that week. WTF? I wish that UConn football had a game like that.

In rivalry games the records are almost meaningless !! You don't have to apologize for defending OSU or Urban(as much as I despise him,sleazy)Meyer for 2 years of winning with no WTF games....thats not easy for anyone buts its not just a coincidence. How long has FSU been waiting for the Bobby Bowden yrs to return?This may at last be the yr !

 

[btstimpy]

I doubt Duke would come in 2nd in the AAC let alone the B1G? But your post's are alway's seen by most of us through neutral eye's as ACCentic. billybuds are less tinged with conference bias as FSU is above the rest and is conference guide-on or flagbearer!

Duke's defense is better than Michigan's, and Duke's offense is significantly better than Michigan's. Duke would score 50 ponts on Ohio State. Now Ohio State would score a lot too, but a Duke-Ohio State game would be close. High Scoring and Close. Beyond Ohio State, there isn't anyone else in the Big Ten that Duke couldn't beat. They would have to play well in all the games of course, but they are capable of beating anyone in the Big Ten.

That said, I think Duke will lose badly to Florida State. Ohio State would lose badly to Florida State. If Michigan can hang 41 points on that Ohio State defense. Florida State can hang 70, and Ohio State's offense won't get more than 21 on FSU if they could get that many.

You mention the AAC. I think UCF and Louisville could beat everyone in the Big Ten but Ohio State. They are good teams too. They aren't all that consistent though. UCF had to have heroics to beat Temple. The good news for them is that they did.

 

[upstater]

Duke's defense is better than Michigan's, and Duke's offense is significantly better than Michigan's. Duke would score 50 ponts on Ohio State. Now Ohio State would score a lot too, but a Duke-Ohio State game would be close. High Scoring and Close. Beyond Ohio State, there isn't anyone else in the Big Ten that Duke couldn't beat. They would have to play well in all the games of course, but they are capable of beating anyone in the Big Ten.

That said, I think Duke will lose badly to Florida State. Ohio State would lose badly to Florida State. If Michigan can hang 41 points on that Ohio State defense. Florida State can hang 70, and Ohio State's offense won't get more than 21 on FSU if they could get that many.

You mention the AAC. I think UCF and Louisville could beat everyone in the Big Ten but Ohio State. They are good teams too. They aren't all that consistent though. UCF had to have heroics to beat Temple. The good news for them is that they did.

You're looking at one game and extrapolating a lot from it. Michigan-Ohio State is always a blood feud no matter what.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Thin skin? Not at all. Not sure if I even made a point about Wisky's schedule, which wasn't great, but certainly not bad. They did play BYU, not necessarily great this year, and the Cougars load a pretty thick, national schedule, so you can compare Wisconsin's performances with other solid to great teams who played BYU. Wisky also played ASU & we know they are playing for the Pac12 title, a conference that was pretty strong, perhaps the best in terms of top to bottom competition.

As for the rest of what you said, stand down brother, I haven't an ounce of disrespect for you, your alias, I know we're on the Internet. I don't come on sports boards much, minus Frank the Tank and pretty much here, & I don't put too much into college sports at the end of the day, quite a few other priorities & hobbies in my life. What I post on sports boards pales in comparison to my field, urban-regional planning. Hell I post more on music or film related boards.

The bigger question is why anyone here cares to see a debate about Wisconsin's schedule? Who cares about Wisconsin? How did they even come up in a thread about ACC Football? Wisconsin will go a middling bowl game and doesn't derseve anything better.

 

[freescooter]

The ACC is what is has traditionally been...Florida State and a bunch of average to below average teams. this year sort of reminds me of the early days of Florida State's ACC adventures. I think they went something like 4 years before losing a conference game and another 3 before losing their 2nd ACC game. they are a very good team that plays in a weak league and makes the process worse by playing a whimpy out of conference schedule. They set their schedule with an eye toward going unbeaten. If they can win the ACC, they don't want to muck it up by losing to a real team in a non-conference game.

 

[billybud]

Every now and then...I have to debunk a myth

MYTH...FSU, in their Dynasty Run, Played a Weak Schedule

During the Dynasty run...FSU played a tough Schedule (teams play schedules not conferences).

Both Miami and Florida were in the Top Five Winningest Teams of the 90's...and they blew the schedule up.


This run started in 1987 and ending in the year 2000. Let's compare schedule of the I-A teams over that period.

Florida State played 172 games from 1987 to 2000. Their .887 winning percentage is about 3 percentage points better than the second place team.

Florida State played 35 teams that finished in the top 10. That's 20.3% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 2 teams.

Florida State played 67 teams that finished ranked. That's 39.0% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 3 teams.

Florida State played 104 teams that finished with a winning record. That's 60.5% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 1 team.

Florida State played 90 teams that went to bowls. That's 52.3% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 3 teams.

Florida State's opponents combined for a winning percentage of .595, which is a higher percentage than any other team.

 

[billybud]

Playing Miami and Florida every year in that period (in FSU's second conference...the Big Florida) was much more then the equivalent of playing both Ohio State and Michigan every year...

Additionally, during that period, FSU played another of the Top 5 winningest teams of the 90's, Nebraska...four times and beat them.

I think that we all have regional blinders on...like I don't have a sense for the northeast.

That is why I post on these boards...trying to augment my knowledge and, maybe, just maybe, lessen my personal bias.

 

[NickyNewark]

Every now and then...I have to debunk a myth

MYTH...FSU, in their Dynasty Run, Played a Weak Schedule

During the Dynasty run...FSU played a tough Schedule (teams play schedules not conferences).

Both Miami and Florida were in the Top Five Winningest Teams of the 90's...and they blew the schedule up.

This run started in 1987 and ending in the year 2000. Let's compare schedule of the I-A teams over that period.

Florida State played 172 games from 1987 to 2000. Their .887 winning percentage is about 3 percentage points better than the second place team.

Florida State played 35 teams that finished in the top 10. That's 20.3% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 2 teams.

Florida State played 67 teams that finished ranked. That's 39.0% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 3 teams.

Florida State played 104 teams that finished with a winning record. That's 60.5% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 1 team.

Florida State played 90 teams that went to bowls. That's 52.3% of their games and a higher percentage than all but 3 teams.

Florida State's opponents combined for a winning percentage of .595, which is a higher percentage than any other team.

I think he mean's the last 12 or so yrs after starting his comment about early/mid 90s ACC. Seem's that might have been what triggered the 1st BE raid was lack of "quality" product and possibly subsequent raiding?We all know what the early and BE version of the "U" was. I really don't know what happened at FSU after BB was let go?

 

[HuskyHawk]

You're looking at one game and extrapolating a lot from it. Michigan-Ohio State is always a blood feud no matter what.

And it was in Ann Arbor. You can throw out those rivalry games. I'm not sure Duke would be favored to beat Michigan in Ann Arbor. Ohio State would definitely beat Duke.

 

[NickyNewark]

Duke's defense is better than Michigan's, and Duke's offense is significantly better than Michigan's. Duke would score 50 ponts on Ohio State. Now Ohio State would score a lot too, but a Duke-Ohio State game would be close. High Scoring and Close. Beyond Ohio State, there isn't anyone else in the Big Ten that Duke couldn't beat. They would have to play well in all the games of course, but they are capable of beating anyone in the Big Ten.

That said, I think Duke will lose badly to Florida State. Ohio State would lose badly to Florida State. If Michigan can hang 41 points on that Ohio State defense. Florida State can hang 70, and Ohio State's offense won't get more than 21 on FSU if they could get that many.

You mention the AAC. I think UCF and Louisville could beat everyone in the Big Ten but Ohio State. They are good teams too. They aren't all that consistent though. UCF had to have heroics to beat Temple. The good news for them is that they did.

Damn,you make Duke FB sound like Oregon-Baylor's high flying offense's but if their that good why were'nt the pollsters/writers/coaches voting them appropriately? I was starting to think BC had something going after the FSU game but recent performances tempered that thought!

 

[freescooter]

billy,
In FSU's early ACC years the the ACC was what it is now. A bunch of middling football teams plus Florida State. They didn't lose a game in conference until their 4th season, then went 3 more years without losing a game. I'll give you that they played a much tougher non-conference schedule in those days than they do now. Many teams did. It is the downside of the push for a "true" national champion. It is better to play Bethune-Cookman and Idaho than Notre Dame and Penn State because there's virtually no chance you'll lose to the former, and being 12-0 is most important. It isn't getting any better under the new system, by the way.

 

[billybud]

Did you know that there were more ACC teams in final AP top 25 then Big Ten teams in some of those years...and certainly more ranked teams on FSU's schedule then most.

There just is no educated justification for downplaying FSU's schedule during their run...a knowledgable football person would not do so


Year....Final AP ACC + others.......................................................................................

90.......#2 GT, #3, Miami, Clemson #9, Virginia #23, Florida #13

91.......#1 Miami, Michigan #6, Florida #7, Clemson #18, NC State #24,

92......#3 Miami, #10 Florida, #14 Nebraska, #19 North Carolina

93.....#3 Nebraska, #5 Florida, #19 North Carolina, #23 Clemson

94.....#6 Miami, #7 Florida, #7 Florida (yes...twice), #17 NC State

95.....#2 Florida, #11 Notre Dame, #16 Virginia

96.....#1 Florida, #1 Florida (yes...twice), #10 North Carolina, Miami #14 (and who has had to play the #1 team twice in a season in back to back games..well maybe Alabama -LSU)

97.....#4 Florida, #6 North Carolina, #12 Ohio State

98....#1 Tennessee, #5 Florida, #9 Georgia Tech, #20 Miami

During that nine year period...I don't think any team has played as many games against End Ranked Top Five Teams (the golden measure since, by definition, they win 90% of their games)

FSU played 11 games against Top Five End Ranked teams in these years....22 games against End Ranked Top 10 teams....

Top Ten.. End Ranked Teams are the cream of the crop...they all win a bunch of their games....playing 22 of them in 9 seasons says a bunch about having a tough schedule...

 

[SouthronCross]

Funny,Mizzou had been a mediocre BIG12 bottomfeeder for year's but in 1 year (in which they luckily avoided LSU+Bama on their schedule) their mentioned as a "power?"....Really,I'm confused? But your "this yr" point is well taken.

Actually, Missouri was not a bottomfeeder during its last seven seasons in the Big 12. The Tigers were 63-29 from '05-'11, winning 10 or more games three times in that span...'07, '08, and, '10. Thats nine wins a season in that span. In both '07 (12-2) and '08 (10-4), they played in the B12 CCG (losing both to Oklahoma). Their '07 team was ranked No 1 in the country in the final regular season poll.

You are both correct in that they caught a schedule conducive to success this season, with regular SEC East powers Tennessee and Florida rebuilding, and, Georgia eaten up with injuries. But, they took care of business when they had to, and, I give them their due props for that.

I'm still having trouble grasping USCe's mentioned as a power school FB/program?Were'nt they generally considered the 2nd best team in their own state to the ACC's Clemson?

South Carolina finally got a head coach who could recruit, and, develop that talent, when they got Steve Spurrier. The past three seasons, and, this one, is the best 4-year run in their history (41-11). And, they're going to be good again in 2014.

UConn could do the same thing, if they hire the right HC.

As for Auburn their 2 absolute miracle finishes from being a 3 loss school not even top 10 worthy but I guess in every team's great yr's luck is involved in a couple of games?

Auburn IS good. And, they've been DAMNED lucky the past two games. Which is what it takes to win titles. A combination of luck and skill.

 

[NickyNewark]

Auburn IS good. And, they've been DAMNED lucky the past two games. Which is what it takes to win titles. A combination of luck and skill.

Well Southron I don't really follow them that closely but your word is good enough for me so if your a Mizzou fan my apologies to you...otherwise that record is better than bottomfeeder status in a what I consider a Texahoma conference as dominated by the 2 gorilla's Ha Ha...i'd like too see Mizzou and Uconn in the B1G to round it out?btw,I consider you a good ambassador for N.C. and the ACC as much as I like to hate on them(the ACC)! Ha Ha!!

 

[SouthronCross]

Well Southron I don't really follow them that closely but your word is good enough for me so if your a Mizzou fan my apologies to you...otherwise that record is better than bottomfeeder status in a what I consider a Texahoma conference as dominated by the 2 gorilla's Ha Ha...i'd like too see Mizzou and Uconn in the B1G to round it out?

Yeah, Texas and Oklahoma are the 800-lb gorillas in the B12, but, Oklahoma State and Baylor have both done a good job of forcing their way into the upper half of that league of late. JMHO, but, Oklahoma State is getting the shaft at present from the pollsters. They have absolutely thumped both Texas (38-13) and Baylor (49-17), and, still get no respect. Their loss to WVU is killing their chances at the BCSCG.

I am not a Missouri fan by any means, but, we do have to give them their props for putting up a fairly good record over the past 6-8 seasons.

A combination of UConn and Missouri to the B1G could be good, but, I am thinking MU will stick with the SEC. They openly campaigned for a spot that was eventually given to Nebraska. They've gotten the back of the hand from the B1G quite a few times already, and, for that reason, I doubt they'd go now. But, you never know.

btw,I consider you a good ambassador for N.C. and the ACC as much as I like to hate on them(the ACC)! Ha Ha!!

I appreciate that. Theres no way that whats happened between the ACC and the old BE has not left some hard feelings with some parties.

I am not a good trash talker, so, I don't go there. I'd much rather talk about a topic based on the merits, and, if I am wrong, I say so.


.

 

[freescooter]

I grant you that they played a tougher schedule in those day than they do today, but it wasn't in the ACC. In their first 10 years in the league Florida State lost 4 conference games. they didn't lose 2 ACC games in a single season until their 10th season in the conference. They went unbeaten 7 of their first 10 ACC seasons. They were so far and away above everyone else in that league at the time it was crazy. Seems to be heading back that way again.

 

[SouthronCross]

Actually, Carolina and Virginia

I grant you that they played a tougher schedule in those day than they do today, but it wasn't in the ACC. In their first 10 years in the league Florida State lost 4 conference games. they didn't lose 2 ACC games in a single season until their 10th season in the conference. They went unbeaten 7 of their first 10 ACC seasons. They were so far and away above everyone else in that league at the time it was crazy. Seems to be heading back that way again.

It does, doesn't it? Jimbo Fisher and his staff are just cleaning up on the recruiting trail, and, they've shown that they can coach them up, too. It spells BIG trouble for the ACC. Nobody can match them on the recruiting trail, except maybe Clemson. But, nobody can match them on the field.

UNC was actually pretty good in FSU's early days in the ACC. It was the final six years of Mack Brown's tenure here. Carolina went 54-18 from '92-'97, and, won 10+ games three times during that span. But, we couldn't maintain it.