Which team has the most talented roster in terms of top 8 players. | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Which team has the most talented roster in terms of top 8 players.

GirlBoo1020 said:
I'm less confident in this one to be fully transparent because I don't follow NC state as closely as some of these other teams but I did watch a bunch of their games last year. My rational though is NC State's speed and length in the backcourt could present real problems for Notre Dame and I'm not sure Notre Dame's front court will have improved enough to overtake NC State downlow and I think the final four run will be a real boon for their confidence. We'll see but that was my rational!
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I agree about State’s strength being the backcourt and the athleticism there. However I feel like ND is one of the teams that scares me in the conference or at least can nullify that advantage with Olivia back and Hildago as well as Citron. A lot of talent and experience there.

Down low is State’s biggest concern next year in my estimation. Madison Hayes (or possibly Saniya Rivers) will play the role of a small ball 4 which should create mismatches on the offensive end, however will likely be a size disadvantage on the other side of the ball. Hayes is a good rebounder, but not the size of a traditional 4. Westbeld likes to float away from the basket so perhaps it wouldn’t be a major detriment but she could probably have her way on the blocks in that match up Id imagine. At the 5 State has brought in Caitlin Weimar from Boston who I won’t pretend to be an expert on. She was Patriot league player of the year last year and I believe 2 time DPOY for the conference. Seeing highlights she’s more athletic and mobile than River Baldwin was last year but lacks the lower body strength and size of Baldwin. I’m hopeful she gives State a more athletic look and different skill set, but I also don’t know how her game will translate.

Maddy Cox showed flashes last year but was rather inconsistent. Hopefully she takes a step as a quality 4. Depth beyond that is a serious question with Mallory Collier and incoming freshmen Tilda Trygger and Lorena Awou who I think State are excited about but generally Wes Moore doesn’t give a freshman a big role unless they force his hand.
 
visitingcock said:
It’s hard to write Jeff off for one “ mere”bad year after appearances in 6 of the last 10 Elite 8s. Especially since some of the ten teams listed above (including ND and UCLA) have coaches who have never reached that level.
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Not to mention he has an impressive class coming in including the daughters of Zach Randolph and Gilbert Arenas who are ranked in the ESPN 100.
 
GirlBoo1020 said:
TCU was doing pretty well last year before they lost their whole team to injury if memory serves.
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They won a bunch of games to start the season, but it was against a pretty weak OOC schedule. We'll never know how they would've fared in conference if not for the rash of injuries.
 
visitingcock said:
Upset? I never felt that 20-21 was SCar’s “year.” We were reloading that year, We had lost 2 valuable pieces of the 19-20 team that had 2 first round seniors. (Yes, we proudly waive our garnet banner for 19-20.)

Our 20-21 team lacked any senior leadership and had only one starting junior . They lost five games ( all to highly ranked teams except TENNESSEE). Nevertheless it was a solid F4 squad and Paige was brilliant in that regular season OY game in stoors.
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I mean they were a missed layup and put back away from probably winning the title, but the team didn't win the SEC and it wasn't one of the best teams Dawn has had.

It was a very defendable team.
 
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nwhoopfan said:
They won a bunch of games to start the season, but it was against a pretty weak OOC schedule. We'll never know how they would've fared in conference if not for the rash of injuries.
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Hailey Van Lith and Scherr will help, I think.

Good test against experienced players that shouldn't be too intimidated.
 
GirlBoo1020 said:
TCU was doing pretty well last year before they lost their whole team to injury if memory serves. This is the time of year when hope springs eternal but the reality is that a lot of preseason top 10 teams last year ended up being more in the 15-25 range (or unranked in Tennessee's case) so by January this list could look totally different. Hoping my Huskies don't end up out of the conversation again next year but you never know what teams will surprise you in a good way (Nc State) or a bad way.
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Washington, Northern Illinois, Houston Christian ?? Bunch of huskies out there.

Bone Dog said:
I doubt the 4 on the right will not be in the top 10.
3 of them are likely to be top 20 though.

Duke, Baylor and Louisville are my picks to fill out the top 10
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Duke aint' a top 10 team to start the season. Too many questions.

I would rank them at #11
 
triaddukefan said:
Washington, Northern Illinois, Houston Christian ?? Bunch of huskies out there.



Duke aint' a top 10 team to start the season. Too many questions.

I would rank them at #11
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Will be doing part 2. 11-20. Duke is pretty highly rated on most summer rankings. Their top 8 is hard to determine. Very deep team. What I like about them is that we already know they're going to be great defensively and play a lot of ppl.
 
RSHERMVIKES said:
jumpstart- - - IMHO UConn (if healthy) can play defense as good if not the best defense in DI WCBB!
The problem the past 3 years is UConn has never had all healthy to utilize their amazing athletic skills!
I truly think that if both SoCar and UConn were completely healthy UConn would have beaten SoCar these past 3 years!
Offensively and defensively UConn has a full boat and I wouldn't bet against Geno and his staff!
Just my 2-cents worth!
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UCONN still hasn't seen these players in an "after injury" performance. That could be an issue that no one sees coming. There are many players who are not the same after a year of rehab. I don't think Amihere was the same player at South Carolina after her rehab . People forget that she was the No.2 ranked player until she had to sit out her senior season. If the UCONN players all comeback at full strength they still haven't "shown" what they can do as a unit. I will say that until they do...South Carolina has more talent than anyone....again...end of story...lol....
 
jumpstart said:
UCONN still hasn't seen these players in an "after injury" performance. That could be an issue that no one sees coming. There are many players who are not the same after a year of rehab. I don't think Amihere was the same player at South Carolina after her rehab . People forget that she was the No.2 ranked player until she had to sit out her senior season. If the UCONN players all comeback at full strength they still haven't "shown" what they can do as a unit. I will say that until they do...South Carolina has more talent than anyone....again...end of story...lol....
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I'd chalk it up more to development than her rehab from ACLs. Amihere was primarily known for her dunking and athleticism coming out of King's Christian. She didn't have a well rounded game and it didn't expand while at South Carolina.
 
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cancontent said:
I'd chalk it up more to development than her rehab from ACLs. Amihere was primarily known for her dunking and athleticism coming out of King's Christian. She didn't have a well rounded game and it didn't expand while at South Carolina.
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Amihere played out of control way too often. She led SCar in turnovers per minute played. I don’t know how many times she grabbed a defensive rebound and, instead of passing, streaked up court and charged. The only player who as made me hold my breath for ten seconds after making an athletically great play. .
 
visitingcock said:
Amihere played out of control way too often. She led SCar in turnovers per minute played. I don’t know how many times she grabbed a defensive rebound and, instead of passing, streaked up court and charged. The only player who as made me hold my breath for ten seconds after making an athletically great play. .
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Some of what you've noted has been some of the chatter I've heard from others within Canada Basketball circles. And if recent exhibition games and the first game of the Olympics are any indication, relying solely on athleticism may be catching up with her.

Didn't get significant minutes during exhibition games. Had only 2 minutes of playing time yesterday. Prosper had more and she played 3 minutes.
 
cancontent said:
I'd chalk it up more to development than her rehab from ACLs. Amihere was primarily known for her dunking and athleticism coming out of King's Christian. She didn't have a well rounded game and it didn't expand while at South Carolina.
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visitingcock said:
Amihere played out of control way too often. She led SCar in turnovers per minute played. I don’t know how many times she grabbed a defensive rebound and, instead of passing, streaked up court and charged. The only player who as made me hold my breath for ten seconds after making an athletically great play. .
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I don’t think I’d blame SC or Dawn for her lack of development. It’s a common pattern. I think you could say something similar about Barker as well. I’d be tempted to include Betts in this list, though her game has improved in two years. I’m uncertain whether this happened at Stanford or UCLA. But I suspect her departure from Tara’s program may have resulted from the pressure to improve her game as much as a perceived lack of playing time.

It is really difficult to recruit kids who have prodigious talent in hs and are willing to put up with the hard work of development. The growth of the transfer portal has made it even more difficult. The coaches for whom development is a signature are few and far between. We can all list a few big names. But coaches on the edge of fame are also recognizable.
 
Bone Dog said:
I don’t think I’d blame SC or Dawn for her lack of development. It’s a common pattern. I think you could say something similar about Barker as well. I’d be tempted to include Betts in this list, though her game has improved in two years. I’m uncertain whether this happened at Stanford or UCLA. But I suspect her departure from Tara’s program may have resulted from the pressure to improve her game as much as a perceived lack of playing time.

It is really difficult to recruit kids who have prodigious talent in hs and are willing to put up with the hard work of development. The growth of the transfer portal has made it even more difficult. The coaches for whom development is a signature are few and far between. We can all list a few big names. But coaches on the edge of fame are also recognizable.
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Agreed. My comments weren't in regards to Coach Staley or the South Carolina program. Programs can only do so much for a player. Development has to be something a player wants to do for themselves.
 
cancontent said:
Agreed. My comments weren't in regards to Coach Staley or the South Carolina program. Programs can only do so much for a player. Development has to be something a player wants to do for themselves.
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She seems to have the "want to". Everything I heard and saw at South Carolina showed that she is trying. I've always theorized her issues stem from the mental aspect of the game. She has sub-par basketball instincts and she tends to think that playing harder/stronger will make up for it and in reality it just compounds the issue.
 
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GamecockFam said:
She seems to have the "want to". Everything I heard and saw at South Carolina showed that she is trying. I've always theorized her issues stem from the mental aspect of the game. She has sub-par basketball instincts and she tends to think that playing harder/stronger will make up for it and in reality it just compounds the issue.
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Time will tell. Wanting to is one thing. The willingness to do it is another. Many of us "want to" do a lot of things but never accomplish those goals for various reasons. Fortunately for her, she's young and has the opportunity to change things.
 
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Subjectively? South Carolina (I am very biased here)

Objectively? UCLA (I still believe in Kiki Rice)
 
WBBTakeover said:
Subjectively? South Carolina (I am very biased here)

Objectively? UCLA (I still believe in Kiki Rice)
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I would say that you are being subjective about UCLA because Kiki and Lauren have never made it to the elite 8. Will Timea change that? I have doubts ( though my doubts may arise from coaching rather than talent)
 
IMHO there are coaches in WBB Division I that are/were great recruiters but lousy game coaches!
Cori Close is one of them!
Some others:
Kristy Curry
Sylvia Hatchell retired
Holly Warlick retired
Matthew Mitchell retired
Lindsay Gottlieb (still to be tested at USC)
 
visitingcock said:
I would say that you are being subjective about UCLA because Kiki and Lauren have never made it to the elite 8. Will Timea change that? I have doubts ( though my doubts may arise from coaching rather than talent)
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I have my doubts, too.
 
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Anyone else getting excited knowing the kids will be headed to campus soon to start the school year and practices will be starting in just over a month or so? I am obviously a UConn fan but excited to kick this season off across the country and hopefully I am emotionally equipped to deal with whatever blows the basketball Gods deal out this season.
 
WBBTakeover said:
Subjectively? South Carolina (I am very biased here)

Objectively? UCLA (I still believe in Kiki Rice)
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I agree. This is kinda how I still feel after a month of pondering. I'm uconn bias but nonetheless believe UCLA has a great roster.

UConn vs UCLA

Betts > Jana
Gardiner > Strong
Jaquez < Paige
Jones <Azzi
Rice > KK

Barker> Ice
Ledger Walker > Kaitlyn Chen
Dugalic < Ashlyn
5-3 UCLA

Ucla vs South Carolina
Betts> Watkins
Gardiner> Kitts
Jaquez = Hall
Jones < Paopao
Rice> Johnson

Barker > Feagin
Ledger Walker = Fulwiley
Dugalic < Tessa
4 -2 UCLA

UCLA vs Notre Dame
Betts > Koval
Gardiner = Westbeld
Jaquez < Citron
Jones < Hidalgo
Rice = Miles

Barker = King
Ledger walker > Prosper
Dugalic = Karlen
Notre Dame and UCLA tied.
 
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jdote33 said:
I agree. This is kinda how I still feel after a month of pondering. I'm uconn bias but nonetheless believe UCLA has a great roster.

UConn vs UCLA

Betts > Jana
Gardiner > Strong
Jaquez < Paige
Jones <Azzi
Rice > KK

Barker> Ice
Ledger Walker > Kaitlyn Chen
Dugalic < Ashlyn
5-3 UCLA

Ucla vs South Carolina
Betts> Watkins
Gardiner> Kitts
Jaquez = Hall
Jones < Paopao
Rice> Johnson

Barker > Feagin
Ledger Walker = Fulwiley
Dugalic < Tessa
4 -2 UCLA

UCLA vs Notre Dame
Betts > Koval
Gardiner = Westbeld
Jaquez < Citron
Jones < Hidalgo
Rice = Miles

Barker = King
Ledger walker > Prosper
Dugalic = Karlen
Notre Dame and UCLA tied.
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some of these takes a wild! Gardiner and Westbled equal? Rice better than Johnson? Ledger Walker equal to Fulwiley? And that’s not even talking about the UConn comparisons.
 
jdote33 said:
I agree. This is kinda how I still feel after a month of pondering. I'm uconn bias but nonetheless believe UCLA has a great roster.

UConn vs UCLA

Betts > Jana
Gardiner > Strong
Jaquez < Paige
Jones <Azzi
Rice > KK

Barker> Ice
Ledger Walker > Kaitlyn Chen
Dugalic < Ashlyn
5-3 UCLA
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I read most of those matchups differently. 5>3 Uconn if you ask me. But that 3 could be enough to win it.

Betts Barker and Dugalic will be the winning matchups, and they could be enough to win it for them depending on how long they can stay on the floor. Jacquez, Jones, Rice and Ledger-Walker are all losing matchups if Azzi plays, and these won't be one-v-one matchups either. And I suspect Ice will be too much for Gardner now that she has a year under her belt. Jacquez is good, but she will not be able to run with Paige any better than Sellars did last season. And when Rice switches onto her, it will be like being taken to school. Same with Azzi, and don't forget Kaitlyn, who almost beat them single-handedly last season, and that was when they had Osborne. Now maybe Azzi won't be back for this game, but if she is, look out. Containing her and Paige -- not happening. And if they light it up, the rest of the team will be unleashed.

Last season Paige scored 31 on a poor shooting night for her (though she hit 5-11 3s) with only Aaliyah and Ice against Betts Dugalic Sonntag, and Ice had yet to find her feet in Geno's system. Most of Paige's scoring was spent in a desperate comeback effort. Same goes for KK and Ash. This meant Paige had no openings in the paint. Essentially, Aaliyah was way outmuscled. Aubrey did a little better because of the matchup problem she poses for any team. This was essentially a frontline win. Rice and Osborne scored 42 between them, but I thought that was largely due to what the frontline advantage did to Geno's defense. You can challenge shooters much more aggressively if you know you have a pair of rim-protectors behind you.

The main UCLA advantage is in the front court and I don't see Jana and Sarah being able to contain Betts & Co in the long run, especially with Barker as a wildcard. If Aubrey were back, that might make a difference. But as it is, Geno's plan is likely to be to see if his backcourt can take enough of the pressure off his front court to allow Jana to hold her own at least for a little while. The puzzle for Close is whether she can run a big lineup for long stretches or if that will be too slow. This is where Barker is important, the only quick big she has. Otherwise, I suspect she won't be able to keep Betts on the floor for long alongside Gardner or Dugalic. Jana and Ice or Sarah against Gardner and Dugalic -- I like those odds.

If Close can't count on Barker for major minutes, can she play a lineup like Betts Rice Jones Jacquez and Ledger-Walker against Paige Azzi Kaitlyn Sarah and Jana? I doubt it. Paige Kaitlyn and Azzi (or Sarah) would light them up. And with subs like KK and Ash able to sub win, this will be a difficult lineup to tire out. Geno doesn't need his freshmen to work wonders for him, but a couple of them just might. And subbing Dugalic or Gardner for Jacquez just makes them too slow.

On the other hand, if Barker and Betts play well together, I think UCLA has a significant advantage. That will take the pressure of Rice and Jones to make the backcourt work.
 
Bone Dog said:
I read most of those matchups differently. 5>3 Uconn if you ask me. But that 3 could be enough to win it.

Betts Barker and Dugalic will be the winning matchups, and they could be enough to win it for them depending on how long they can stay on the floor. Jacquez, Jones, Rice and Ledger-Walker are all losing matchups if Azzi plays, and these won't be one-v-one matchups either. And I suspect Ice will be too much for Gardner now that she has a year under her belt. Jacquez is good, but she will not be able to run with Paige any better than Sellars did last season. And when Rice switches onto her, it will be like being taken to school. Same with Azzi, and don't forget Kaitlyn, who almost beat them single-handedly last season, and that was when they had Osborne. Now maybe Azzi won't be back for this game, but if she is, look out. Containing her and Paige -- not happening. And if they light it up, the rest of the team will be unleashed.

Last season Paige scored 31 on a poor shooting night for her (though she hit 5-11 3s) with only Aaliyah and Ice against Betts Dugalic Sonntag, and Ice had yet to find her feet in Geno's system. Most of Paige's scoring was spent in a desperate comeback effort. Same goes for KK and Ash. This meant Paige had no openings in the paint. Essentially, Aaliyah was way outmuscled. Aubrey did a little better because of the matchup problem she poses for any team. This was essentially a frontline win. Rice and Osborne scored 42 between them, but I thought that was largely due to what the frontline advantage did to Geno's defense. You can challenge shooters much more aggressively if you know you have a pair of rim-protectors behind you.

The main UCLA advantage is in the front court and I don't see Jana and Sarah being able to contain Betts & Co in the long run, especially with Barker as a wildcard. If Aubrey were back, that might make a difference. But as it is, Geno's plan is likely to be to see if his backcourt can take enough of the pressure off his front court to allow Jana to hold her own at least for a little while. The puzzle for Close is whether she can run a big lineup for long stretches or if that will be too slow. This is where Barker is important, the only quick big she has. Otherwise, I suspect she won't be able to keep Betts on the floor for long alongside Gardner or Dugalic. Jana and Ice or Sarah against Gardner and Dugalic -- I like those odds.

If Close can't count on Barker for major minutes, can she play a lineup like Betts Rice Jones Jacquez and Ledger-Walker against Paige Azzi Kaitlyn Sarah and Jana? I doubt it. Paige Kaitlyn and Azzi (or Sarah) would light them up. And with subs like KK and Ash able to sub win, this will be a difficult lineup to tire out. Geno doesn't need his freshmen to work wonders for him, but a couple of them just might. And subbing Dugalic or Gardner for Jacquez just makes them too slow.

On the other hand, if Barker and Betts play well together, I think UCLA has a significant advantage. That will take the pressure of Rice and Jones to make the backcourt work.
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I think you're underestimating Gardiner. She's not uber athletic, but she is definitely not slow for a big. Plus she has a great 3 point shot, and can shoot off the dribble. She has a pro game. She can definitely play alongside Betts, and I think she will excel as the stretch 4 to make the defense pay if they double Betts. I'm not sure if she will start since Dugalic is back, but she is the better option at the 4. Brady could probably overpower her in the paint, but Brady will have to try and defend her on the perimeter as well.
 
Reypl21 said:
I think you're underestimating Gardiner. She's not uber athletic, but she is definitely not slow for a big. Plus she has a great 3 point shot, and can shoot off the dribble. She has a pro game. She can definitely play alongside Betts, and I think she will excel as the stretch 4 to make the defense pay if they double Betts. I'm not sure if she will start since Dugalic is back, but she is the better option at the 4. Brady could probably overpower her in the paint, but Brady will have to try and defend her on the perimeter as well.
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You could be right. Though Ice has a midrange and a perimeter game, too. And if Sarah finds her comfort level, I don't see Gardner being able to handle her inside or outside. Still, it will be good for UCLA to have another perimeter threat after they lost Osborne. The thing is, they just don't have near as many as Geno has. It's essentially Jones, and maybe Bessoir if she can return from the injury. So Gardner will be a welcome addition. This is why I wonder If that is how Close will want to use her lineup? I mean, if she can't out shoot UConn from the perimeter (or in the midrange), then they damn well better be able to outrun them.
 
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