Which team has the most talented roster in terms of top 8 players.

[Bone Dog]

I really like Delaney Thomas, as she may get more playing time this year with their starting big leaving.

I was surprised Geno didn't recruit Thomas. She looks like his sort of player and seemed interested. I guess the scholarship limit was just too tight.

South Carolina probably has the best 8, Notre Dames top 4 is pretty darn impressive

I agree on both counts. Only thing I'd add is that UConn's top 4 (or 5) (or 6) (or 7) may be the easiest to underestimate. Not Paige, of course. But how many folks will overlook Ash and KK. Those two are definitely primed for a sophomore leap. Paige just gave them a season-long, intensive tutorial in winning against tough opponents, after all. And Kaitlyn has been taking tougher opponents by surprise her entire career.

 

[TC22]

Im just pumped that the Pack is included in this exercise. I think State lacks the superstar some of these rosters have such as a Paige, juju, Hildago, miles or others. However I do think State’s pieces fit well together. South Carolina probably has the best 8, Notre Dames top 4 is pretty darn impressive - I’m curious to see how Miles and Hannah play together.

If James can clean up some shot selection issues and become slightly more efficient she could perhaps enter in that truly elite conversation with some of those others. She was streaky last year, when on she was fantastic but at times took some questionable shots and got in early foul troubles. Would also love to see Rivers improve her outside jumper.

The fact that Saniyah Rivers hasn’t improved her outside shooting is mind blowing. I have to figure she has worked on it. When she was at SC we would cringe every time she would be open because she would jack it up and most of the time be nowhere near the rim. Absolute elite athlete but she’s going to have to find her shot to make it long at the next level.

 

[Alydar]

So the teams in the table for the most part are from two list: ESPN's way too early top 25 and World Exposure Reports Way too early top 25. I actually just wanted to do the top 10 so I should probably remove tcu. I was mostly in agreement with ESPN's list but swapped Baylor and Oklahoma. World exposure report had Duke in their top 10 but I just didn't think their rotation was comparable to the other teams though I like their roster and believe in Kara Lawson

Of the elite 8 teams last year, just raw numbers, those teams had about 9 players averaging double figure minutes. But obviously raw numbers doesn't account for injuries or suspensions. So a team like LSU had 9 including Katarie Poole and SaMyah Smith. I think both would've been in the rotation if healthy but maybe Del Rosario wouldn't have been. Similarly UConn had about 10 but it's hard to gauge how much Ashlyn Shade would've played if Azzi and Caroline were healthy. Iowa and nc state mostly played 7. So I think top 8 is a reasonable rotation to compare teams.

Lastly of the teams listed, UCLA had the most double figure scorers in their top 8. I know scoring isn't everything, but honestly their 8 jumped out to me more than any others.

The title of the post said most talented roster, not who had the stats. The two are related but not the same.

 

[GamecockFam]

The fact that Saniyah Rivers hasn’t improved her outside shooting is mind blowing. I have to figure she has worked on it. When she was at SC we would cringe every time she would be open because she would jack it up and most of the time be nowhere near the rim. Absolute elite athlete but she’s going to have to find her shot to make it long at the next level.

What? She has improved it even if it is still not good numbers. She did talk about focusing on it during her last off-season but it didn't really show.

Freshman: 1-31 / 3.2%
Sophomore: 14-65 / 21.5%
Junior: 25-96 / 26%

I think she can have a successful career if she bumps it up a tad. If she increases it another 4% she'll be shooting it around 30%, which isn't great, but it is serviceable.

 

[visitingcock]

The title of the post said most talented roster, not who had the stats. The two are related but not the same.

"Most talented" is hard to define.

Is it physical characteristics? Well partially. Speed, strength, jumping and endurance are important. Height is not actually a physical "ability" but it can be a factor. So, let's say physical "characteristics" rather than physical "ability." Hand-eye coordination? Vision?

Is it learned skills? Skill to dribble, to shoot, to make pinpoint passes, to set up and execute a proper pick and roll, etc. These are skills that have been learned. (And can be improved from year to year)

A proper mix of physical ability and skill equals talent. But how do you measure the combination? About all you have are statistics and eyeball tests but both can create wrong impressions. Stats may not take into account a player's role on their team. Then, how do you decide between a player who has very solid stats across the board to one who has superlative stats in only one or two areas? Steals, blocked shots are very nice but they certainly don't tell the whole story on defense.

It's tough.

 

[Bone Dog]

Absolute elite athlete but she’s going to have to find her shot to make it long at the next level.

Perimeter shooting is not that easy to find. It is often, but not always, primarily a matter of repetitions. But there is also a frame of mind that has to be developed. But I have confidence in Saniyah. She is a remarkably inventive personality and that may be all it takes for her to break through the 30% barrier.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Really looking forward to SCar at UCLA for nay reasons.that might be the game where we see us playing a big (like Dauda or Edwards) at the 3 for added rebounding along with an outside threat.

Of course, all of our Bigs can RUN. That is perhaps the best counter to Betts. Run and run and run. Put her off her normal game and wear her down.

I’ll also be interested to see what kindof crowd shows up in LA for a game between two highly ranked contenders.

I just don't see much reason for SCar to play three bigs together except to manufacture playing time.

It doesn't look like it would be the best lineup offensively and I do not otherwise think the team will struggle to defend or rebound.

 

[visitingcock]

I just don't see much reason for SCar to play three bigs together except to manufacture playing time.

It doesn't look like it would be the best lineup offensively and I do not otherwise think the team will struggle to defend or rebound.

I’m only talking about a few minutes in most games so that we are used to running it on those rare occasions when it might be needed against a team with quality bigs like a UCLA

 

[FanInNC]

Saniya’s stroke is definitely improved.

As mentioned previously her 3s :
1-32 3%
14-65 21%
25-96 26%

But also FTs
12-24 50%
45-72 62%
111-151 73%

She’s taken on a larger role each year and last year her and Aziaha James were often the ones taking grenade bombs at the end of the shot clock when plays broke down which certainly effects your FG %. For example, Madison Hayes shoots a great % from 3 but she also is never asked to create her own shot, everything is a set shot for the most part and comes within the flow of the offense. Rivers’ athleticism means she is asked to make something out of nothing at times.

Her mid range game seemed great last year. If she can get that 3 % to something like 30-33% it would take her game to another level. She is a fantastic defender. Willing passer. Team player and has an infectious attitude.

This year she will be playing on the wing rather than on the ball from everything I’ve read. Will be interesting to see how that changes her game and shot selection. I think she could be one heck of a match up problem as a small ball 4. Not sure if Wes will have her more at the 3 or the 4

 

[jdote33]

The title of the post said most talented roster, not who had the stats. The two are related but not the same.

I appreciate this point. The title and opening post could've been better/clearer. Best rotation vs most talented, I agree are slightly different distinctions. But Id still probably go with UCLA any way it's worded.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Athleticism is the key. In that regard South Carolina is the leader. They can play you straight up....run on you....out 3 point you.....and out defense you. It's the entire package not some single statistic that wins in the end. South Carolina might not go undefeated this coming season, but I believe they will be the last team standing. They love defense....you have to have a talented defense to win....South Carolina has the most talent in that department. End of story.

jumpstart- - - IMHO UConn (if healthy) can play defense as good if not the best defense in DI WCBB!
The problem the past 3 years is UConn has never had all healthy to utilize their amazing athletic skills!
I truly think that if both SoCar and UConn were completely healthy UConn would have beaten SoCar these past 3 years!
Offensively and defensively UConn has a full boat and I wouldn't bet against Geno and his staff!
Just my 2-cents worth!

 

[Bone Dog]

IMHO UConn (if healthy) can play defense as good if not the best defense in DI WCBB!
The problem the past 3 years is UConn has never had all healthy to utilize their amazing athletic skills!
I truly think that if both SoCar and UConn were completely healthy UConn would have beaten SoCar these past 3 years!
Offensively and defensively UConn has a full boat and I wouldn't bet against Geno and his staff!
Just my 2-cents worth!

I'll pitch in those 2-cents as well. We have all been cheated of the best rivalry in WCBB the last 3 years. Freshman Paige beat SC in a really close game. The following season, SC clobbered UConn in the Bahamas -- no injury excuses there, but the rematch in the NC game was against a hobbled team. The next year, SC won a really close game against a team that lacked Paige and Azzi. And last season, SC again clobbered a shell of UConn.

UConn and SC have usually had the best athletes over the past decade or so. That's changed and more teams are blessed with great talent. This year it looks like 5 or 6 teams have a ton of talent. Paige & Co might still be able to beat SC this season if they avoid injury. But they aren't the only threat. UCLA, USCw and ND look like serious contenders to me. The formula will be the same for UConn as it's been for the last several years: win with big guards and wings over teams with bigger posts. Geno's won this way before and I think he'll do it again.

 

[jdote33]

I'll pitch in those 2-cents as well. We have all been cheated of the best rivalry in WCBB the last 3 years. Freshman Paige beat SC in a really close game. The following season, SC clobbered UConn in the Bahamas -- no injury excuses there, but the rematch in the NC game was against a hobbled team. The next year, SC won a really close game against a team that lacked Paige and Azzi. And last season, SC again clobbered a shell of UConn.

UConn and SC have usually had the best athletes over the past decade or so. That's changed and more teams are blessed with great talent. This year it looks like 5 or 6 teams have a ton of talent. Paige & Co might still be able to beat SC this season if they avoid injury. But they aren't the only threat. UCLA, USCw and ND look like serious contenders to me. The formula will be the same for UConn as it's been for the last several years: win with big guards and wings over teams with bigger posts. Geno's won this way before and I think he'll do it again.

Glad u acknowledged the Bahamas game. I feel that's the forgotten one no one talks about. Both teams were relatively healthy (could've used Aubrey and I don't think we saw Azzi again after that game until like January) and it was 1 vs 2. I think USA today or whoever releases the polls delayed releasing it cuz the game was on Monday at like noon. I remember Dawn Staley giving a speech like it's our time now... That was a cool game for the sport.
Probably a separate thread. But right now, who has the best rivalry in wcbb? I'm old school and feel like the old guy hating but I'm not sure rivalries between teams is the same. Similar to the men's side and even the NBA, most of the players know each other because of aau and team USA. My cynical side also thinks the transfer portal and NIL kinda changed the dynamic. Like I agree in theory SC and UConn would've been great if both sides were healthy but even with all the injuries it still should be a thing. But imo it's not really a thing. I don't think the players and coaches look at it as a thing. I guess fans seem more entrenched in rivalries now.

Ohio State and Iowa recently felt like a pretty good rivalry. OSU had a lot of fiery and competitive players. CC is just built different. IDK if it's her greatness but a lot of teams and Iowa felt like big games. OSU, Indiana, SC, and LSU. LSU and SC kinda had that rivalry feel. Even if SC has won most of the meetings recently it felt like a big game. I bet the best one is like Drake and South Dakota, just two teams close in proximity

 

[visitingcock]

jumpstart- - - IMHO UConn (if healthy) can play defense as good if not the best defense in DI WCBB!
The problem the past 3 years is UConn has never had all healthy to utilize their amazing athletic skills!
I truly think that if both SoCar and UConn were completely healthy UConn would have beaten SoCar these past 3 years!
Offensively and defensively UConn has a full boat and I wouldn't bet against Geno and his staff!
Just my 2-cents worth!

Geno does coach great defense, but . . .

 

[visitingcock]

Glad u acknowledged the Bahamas game. I feel that's the forgotten one no one talks about. Both teams were relatively healthy (could've used Aubrey and I don't think we saw Azzi again after that game until like January) and it was 1 vs 2. I think USA today or whoever releases the polls delayed releasing it cuz the game was on Monday at like noon. I remember Dawn Staley giving a speech like it's our time now... That was a cool game for the sport.
Probably a separate thread. But right now, who has the best rivalry in wcbb? I'm old school and feel like the old guy hating but I'm not sure rivalries between teams is the same. Similar to the men's side and even the NBA, most of the players know each other because of aau and team USA. My cynical side also thinks the transfer portal and NIL kinda changed the dynamic. Like I agree in theory SC and UConn would've been great if both sides were healthy but even with all the injuries it still should be a thing. But imo it's not really a thing. I don't think the players and coaches look at it as a thing. I guess fans seem more entrenched in rivalries now.

Ohio State and Iowa recently felt like a pretty good rivalry. OSU had a lot of fiery and competitive players. CC is just built different. IDK if it's her greatness but a lot of teams and Iowa felt like big games. OSU, Indiana, SC, and LSU. LSU and SC kinda had that rivalry feel. Even if SC has won most of the meetings recently it felt like a big game. I bet the best one is like Drake and South Dakota, just two teams close in proximity

Close proximity matters. Iowa vs Iowa State is a great instate rivalry with fans who support wbb. Of course, U$C and UCLA are naturals and fan interest / attendance was encouraging last year. Let's see what the TV numbers look like this year with a real broadcast package.

Regionally, SCar vs. Tennessee is rather bitter. Though LSU vs SCar has supplanted it since Kim arrived. Texas vs LSU has a potential to be a huge all-sports rivalry.

SCar v UConn? Our fans feel like this is our biggest rival, though UConn probably considers Notre Dame number one an fans express the most bitterness about them. UConn vs SCar has never been a "bitter rivalry" because, as you said, our gals know each other pretty well before they step foot on campus and the coaches are friendly (when not in the heat of gametime). Nevertheless, the best wanna beat the best.

 

[sharris25]

Lets also remember that the one game in which Uconn beat SC with Paige, the game went into Overtime and was a Boston missed layup from being a loss in regulation and the game was at Uconn. Now as for this year's game, Geno had some bench players he refused to play but the biggest show of SC strength was that they were without Kamilla Cardoza for that game and still managed to punish Uconn. The biggest problem, as i see it lately with South Carolina and Uconn is that South Carolina plays elite defense also, but South Carolina's front court has normally overwhelmed Uconn whether it was Boston, or Cardoza or Ashlyn Watkins to go along with the other Bigs that are more prevalent for South Carolina in each game.

 

[Bone Dog]

Lets also remember that the one game in which Uconn beat SC with Paige, the game went into Overtime and was a Boston missed layup from being a loss in regulation and the game was at Uconn.

Yup, this was a close game and I'd even call it an upset. That was SC's year, I thought. They were the top contender for the NC and were again only edged out in the Final Four by a missed Boston putback against Stanford. This was their curse that year.

The other thing I remember from that game was that SC had no answer for Paige. She scored 31 pts with 6 steals and 5 assists, and scored the last 13 points to put UConn over the top. This despite SC being one of the best defenses that season and with Beal assigned to face guard Paige for almost the entire game, and she was no slouch on defense. I think this also showed that the team Geno put around her, talented and athletic as they were, depended on her too much. I think Geno understood this and that's why he kept encouraging to be willing to score 30+ pts in all the tough games. He knew she'd have to carry a larger load.

 

[jdote33]

 

[visitingcock]

Yup, this was a close game and I'd even call it an upset. That was SC's year, I thought. They were the top contender for the NC and were again only edged out in the Final Four by a missed Boston putback against Stanford. This was their curse that year.

The other thing I remember from that game was that SC had no answer for Paige. She scored 31 pts with 6 steals and 5 assists, and scored the last 13 points to put UConn over the top. This despite SC being one of the best defenses that season and with Beal assigned to face guard Paige for almost the entire game, and she was no slouch on defense. I think this also showed that the team Geno put around her, talented and athletic as they were, depended on her too much. I think Geno understood this and that's why he kept encouraging to be willing to score 30+ pts in all the tough games. He knew she'd have to carry a larger load.

Upset? I never felt that 20-21 was SCar’s “year.” We were reloading that year, We had lost 2 valuable pieces of the 19-20 team that had 2 first round seniors. (Yes, we proudly waive our garnet banner for 19-20.)

Our 20-21 team lacked any senior leadership and had only one starting junior . They lost five games ( all to highly ranked teams except TENNESSEE). Nevertheless it was a solid F4 squad and Paige was brilliant in that regular season OY game in stoors.

 

[Reypl21]

I like Lauren Betts a lot. One of the biggest issues I thought UCLA had was actually passing her the ball. The guards would play selfishly for long periods of time.

 

[Bone Dog]

Upset? I never felt that 20-21 was SCar’s “year.” We were reloading that year, We had lost 2 valuable pieces of the 19-20 team that had 2 first round seniors. (Yes, we proudly waive our garnet banner for 19-20.)

Our 20-21 team lacked any senior leadership and had only one starting junior . They lost five games ( all to highly ranked teams except TENNESSEE). Nevertheless it was a solid F4 squad and Paige was brilliant in that regular season OY game in stoors.

SC may have been young, but I think they were still the most loaded in D1. It certainly wasn’t Stanford’s “year” or Arizona’s. Adia thought they were underrated, and there’s something to that given how Aari came on in March. But they were a surprise. And it certainly wasn’t Tennessee’s “year” either. SC was #1 until that upset by UConn.

Maybe the best way to put it is that there weren’t any flawless teams that year. They all had weaknesses. It was a good year for WCBB.

 

[GirlBoo1020]

Back to this year, I think the top 8 are interesting because its all about match ups. SC is clearly the team to beat and its a team some teams in the top 8 I don't think have a chance to beat (like UConn tbh) but other teams might match up slightly better (like UCLA). But I do think some of the teams that can't beat them can beat the teams that might be able to beat them so the tournament could get interesting.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Back to this year, I think the top 8 are interesting because its all about match ups. SC is clearly the team to beat and its a team some teams in the top 8 I don't think have a chance to beat (like UConn tbh) but other teams might match up slightly better (like UCLA). But I do think some of the teams that can't beat them can beat the teams that might be able to beat them so the tournament could get interesting.

GirlBoo1020- - -Please don't underestimate the UConn WBB!
Nobody prepares a team like Geno and his staff!

 

[GirlBoo1020]

GirlBoo1020- - -Please don't underestimate the UConn WBB!
Nobody prepares a team like Geno and his staff!

Not underestimating them, just being realistic about match ups. I don't know that we have the size in the front court nor the speed in the backcourt to match up favorably with them. There are too many unknowns to really know what the strengths and weakness of UConn will be but just looking at the roster we are aren't particularly fast nor particularly big. I think you need one of those two things to have a chance to beat South Carolina, so I don't think we have much of a chance.

 

[Bone Dog]

Not underestimating them, just being realistic about match ups. I don't know that we have the size in the front court nor the speed in the backcourt to match up favorably with them. There are too many unknowns to really know what the strengths and weakness of UConn will be but just looking at the roster we are aren't particularly fast nor particularly big. I think you need one of those two things to have a chance to beat South Carolina, so I don't think we have much of a chance.

I agree with @RSHERMVIKES. You underestimate Geno and Paige & Co. Peculiar after this past season in which they surprised everyone. You're right to think the chances are in SC's favor, and I also think they are the preseason favorite. It also looks like UCLA and USCw will be ranked by many as #2 and #3. I don't share this latter sentiment and think UConn and ND are the chief contenders for SC.

As for the unknowns, on UConn's side there are many.

• Mainly will the injured recover in time (Aubrey, Caroline, Azzi, Jana, Ayanna)
• and will the Freshmen be able to contribute (Sarah, Morgan, Allie)?
• And a lot rides on Jana not only returning healthy but also finding her ability to play at the D1 level.

As for the rest, they are now known quantities.

• We know what Ash and KK can do, and Ice and Q are also known quantities. It's not unreasonable to expect a sophomore leap out of some of them, if not all of them.
• And there a few other knowns, namely Paige and Kaitlyn, and Azzi if she can come back at all. Yes, this is not a sure thing.
• Paige Azzi Kaitlyn Ash and KK is already one of the best backcourts in D1, if not the best, even if none of the freshmen can contribute at all. I think the odds that Azzi will find her form are encouraging, especially if she doesn't have to play 35+ minutes/game.

Do we think none of Aubrey, Ayanna and Caroline will return? That seems unlikely. If only one of them returns, that is a huge boost to our front court. And if both Aubrey and Ayanna can return to form/have a sophomore leap, it will give Jana and Ice much needed relief.

Now let's compare this to the knowns and unknowns at SC, just to take one example.

• The knowns are formidable in the frontline (Watkins, Feagin, Kitts and Dauda) That's some serious depth, though they aren't huge. Other than Dauda at 6'4", it is an athletic but not very tall group.
• The unknowns are promising and this is where the size resides. But they are mainly untested (Walker, Tac and Edwards).
• Will Tac be able to contribute major minutes this season?
• Will Walker recover her form?
• Will Edwards find a way to contribute at the D1 level? Some or all of these questions may get answered in the positive.
• In the backcourt, the knowns are also impressive (Raven, Tessa, Te-Hina, Milaysia and Bree). This strikes me as the main strength of SC this year, even more than the front court, which is a departure from the profile of recent teams.

Dawn's backcourt is all healthy, which is a real advantage over UConn. But if Azzi comes back healthy, I'd give the edge to UConn over this backcourt. SC looks like the second best backcourt in D1 to me. As for matchups, I like KK or Kaitlyn on Raven or Milaysia, Azzi or Ash on Te-hina or Bree, and Paige on Tessa. And this assumes Geno gets nothing from Morgan and Allie who would pose serious matchup problems for SC. The front court edge has to go to SC, but this is not their main strength, as I said above, and it's also where the unknowns are. Watkins and Dauda have some good size and I don't care for the matchup of the taller but untested Jana against two seasoned players. She's strong enough to outmuscle both Watkins and Dauda, which not many bigs can say. But they are simply more experienced. Will Ice be able to overcome this advantage? Maybe, though it means playing two bigs and that hasn't been Geno's best lineup in recent years. Kitts is a good player, but a healthy Caroline or Aubrey would pose a serious problem for her on defense. Will they be healthy enough by then? Two years ago, UConn with no Paige or Azzi or Ice or Caroline almost upset SC. Both squads are a little different now, and it's hard to predict how such a game would go this time around. But that game gives me hope. I'd say SC has to be favored to win this one. But I think there's a chance Paige & Co could pull another upset here.

We could do a similar comparison with UCLA. Here the question mark for the Bruins is their backcourt. Can Rice and Jones make up for the loss of Osborne? I don't think they can really compare to the backcourt UConn can put out there. Their advantage is almost entirely in the front court and it is significant. Geno's game plan would have to be to out-quick them and maybe force them to sit Betts to get more team speed. Can this succeed? I think Paige & Co have at least an even chance to prevail.

And for USCw, we've already seen what Paige can do against Juju. Add in Azzi and Kaitlyn and it becomes even more an advantage for UConn. USCw adds Kiki Iriafen. Is that enough? She is formidable and probably gives them a front court advantage, but is it enough to overcome the backcourt advantage UConn will almost certainly have?

I'm pretty confident we could go down the entire list from the OP and find that UConn has a good chance to win against most of them. SC and ND look like the only long shots to me.