What do you think about the one year audition for KO?

[caw]

yeah, I mean look at how many of Calhoun's assistants are coaching big time programs...Why Woodward at Maine has done pretty well, Moore is doing ok at Quinnipiac, oh and Leatio just got hired at Missouri...well as an assitant, not the head coach. Oh and Howie...can't think of any others who have made it as head coaches...they have all washed out at the mid-major level.

Then maybe the fact Ollie was only under Calhoun's tutelage for 2 years as an assistant is a good thing. I'm kidding of course.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Another reason this is a bad idea is that if Manuel doesn't hire Ollie permanently, it will look like he didn't get a fair chance. If he gives Ollie a 3 year deal, and he stinks it up so bad he has to go at the end of the year, I think everyone would understand. But tying his hands behind his back and then asking him to be successful will strike many, like Donny Marshall's quote indicated, as unfair.

 

[freescooter]

nelson I agree with some of this, but I don't really know what choice he had on a bad situation. Calhoun left him with a coach he didn't trust and didn't want without time to find a replacement. He in effect made Ollie interim head coach without using the title.

 

[Waquoit]

Another reason this is a bad idea is that if Manuel doesn't hire Ollie permanently, it will look like he didn't get a fair chance. If he gives Ollie a 3 year deal, and he stinks it up so bad he has to go at the end of the year, I think everyone would understand. But tying his hands behind his back and then asking him to be successful will strike many, like Donny Marshall's quote indicated, as unfair.

What was unfair was tying the AD's hands. If KO shows he can run a program, he'll get the job full-time.

 

[freescooter]

Running off that list of names is meaningless. Calhoun has only had two assistants in his tenure who he felt were worthy of being the next coach at Uconn - Ollie and Tom Moore. If you want to use Moore as an example of failure...I think that's a bit unfair but whatever. But Ted Woodward's lack of success at Maine doesn't have the slightest bit to do with Kevin Ollie.

Moore has been a modest success at QU...got them to a couple of NITs, spit the bit twice when an NCAA bid was on the line. My point is for those who claim Calhoun is a best to select his replacement as head coach. He has never had an assistant who was a success as a head coach. Woodward, Dickerman and Moore are about the closest and they are all at what are effectively 1AA programs. given the length of his tenure, Moore is still questionable. Hobbs, and I really like Hobbs, but he flamed out at GW, Leatio was modestly successful at DePaul after failing at his alma mater, Glenn was reasonably successful in D3, had modest success at Brown and after one year flopped at Penn. So why is he suddenly omniscient when it comes to pushing one of his assistants as the next head coach? he has never hired assistants who made good head coaches. They may have been great assistant coaches, but that is a different job entirely. I expect kevin Ollie to be no different.

 

[Chief00]

I agree, Warde let his ego get in the way. Poor decision.

This is about the stupidest way it could be handled. I think Warde Manuel is an ego maniac and is more interested in winning a pissing match with Calhoun than he is in doing what is best for UConn.

Give Ollie a 3 year deal. Ollie will be cheap, so if Manuel wants to can him after a year or 2, it won't be that hard. But at least give Ollie the chance to be successful, particularly with recruiting.

he

 

[Buzzyboy]

I agree, Warde let his ego get in the way. Poor decision.
he

I personally think that Kevin Ollie will be successful at UConn. He's a little different than some of the other assistants mentioned in that his work ethic and his will to succeed was the major reason he was able to put together an NBA career. I think his ability to relate to these kids is important and will manifest itself in these players pushing themselves more than they ever thought they would or could. I think Warde is just protecting himself in case of a total disaster so that were Ollie's team to play listlessly and not perform to their abilities (whatever they may be) or conduct themselves like classy student athletes he would have an out. As long as Ollie manages all the aspects of the job in tying team effort, academics, and recruiting (setting up recuiting scheduling & connecting), I think he'll be extended. If UConn starts showing a lot of success both in recruiting and on the court and maybe even excedes expectations on either or both accounts, Warde's decision will be easy. I don't anticipate Kevin getting thrown to the curb unless this team is a total disaster and is not motivated in any way.

 

[DogMania]

I'm surprised this thread has continued on. I know I'm sounding like a broken record...hum, that saying seems quite outdated...but IMO the issue isn't not giving KO a fair chance, but the impact the 7 month deal has on the overall success of the program.

Look at it this way. Regardless to how it played out, since Manuel gave him the job, it doesn't make sense to not give him everything possible to succeed. A multi-year deal would have given KO time to succeed. By giving him a 7 month deal, it gives him very little time to prove himself with a talent depleted roster, plus potentially impact our recruit not only for KO if he's extended, but for the next guy if Manuel replaces him.

By simply giving him a 3 to 4 year deal with a reasonable buy-out, Manuel could have presented a more supportive posture, plus made it easier for KO and his staff to sell UConn to 2013 & 14 recruits. As it stands now, any recruit that is considering UConn has to accept the risk that KO won't be here next fall. As it stand at this moment, UConn does not have a Head Coach under contract for 2013/14 season. If KO and his staff secures a commitment from XRM and some other recruits under these conditions, he deserves a ton of praise. If he doesn't land them, you can simply point the finger at Manuel and Herbst, an opinion shared by many, showed a lack of confidence in their newly appointed young coach.

If they end up liking what KO did this upcoming season, and decide to extend a multi-year contract, there's a good chance that he has to go to battle the following season with less talent that he could have had. I hope that's not the case and that he overcomes this issue.

I really can't see any upside to the deal he got. It's not a matter that KO deserved a multi-year contract. Yeah, I think they should have given him a bigger window to succeed or fail. I'm fine with those who believe he didn't deserve one and needs to earn it. I'm also fine with those who think he should have gotten a longer deal but think he'll be fine and will earn it. That is not the point!!! For the recruiting angle alone, what they did just doesn't make good business sense.

It's as if two companies are competing for a contract that won't start till 8 months from now. One company tells the customer, well we have only 7 guaranteed months produce the product for you, and maybe if it goes well, we'll still be able to produce it when the contract begins, who knows? The other company says, well, we have the goods and means to produce it for the next few years. Now which decision has the better chance of keeping the buyer's job?

Now I realize there is a valid argument that having a multi-year deal with a buy out doesn't guarantee that Ollie would not be replaced for 2013/14. But it sure makes the sales pitch a heck of a lot easier and acceptable than the alternative. No matter how much I think about this, I personally can't come up with how this was a good idea.

 

[upstater]

It's funny but DePaul and GW had better seasons under Leitao and Hobbs the year before they left than they had in the prior 25 years.

It's hard to win at some places.

 

[8893]

What was unfair was tying the AD's hands. If KO shows he can run a program, he'll get the job full-time.

And there's the rub for you, eh? Knowing what we know now, you cannot seriously claim that Manuel would have given KO a shot if JC had retired as long ago as you wanted him to go. So, if Ollie is successful, you will have to admit that you were wrong. You can equivocate and parse as much as you want, but there is no escaping the conclusion that if KO succeeds here, we owe it to JC's parting master stroke. And that kills you.

But look on the bright side: If this plays out really well, you will have a reason to hold a silly grudge for another 30 years.

 

[Waquoit]

And there's the rub for you, eh? Knowing what we know now, you cannot seriously claim that Manuel would have given KO a shot if JC had retired as long ago as you wanted him to go. So, if Ollie is successful, you will have to admit that you were wrong. You can equivocate and parse as much as you want, but there is no escaping the conclusion that if KO succeeds here, we owe it to JC's parting master stroke. And that kills you.

But look on the bright side: If this plays out really well, you will have a reason to hold a silly grudge for another 30 years.

I let this go before, but you keep repeating untruths. I don't what you mean when you say "JC had retired as long ago as you wanted him to go." When did I want him to go? April? My bitch was JC holding the program hostage, I wanted him to quit playing games. I hold no grudge, UConn is my team, of course I want it succeed. Once Ollie was named the coach, he became my guy. KO's success wouldn't kill me, it would make me happy. You don't seem like a very deep thinker. Save the psychoanalysis for the experts.

 

[8893]

I let this go before, but you keep repeating untruths. I don't what you mean when you say "JC had retired as long ago as you wanted him to go." When did I want him to go? April? My bitch was JC holding the program hostage, I wanted him to quit playing games. I hold no grudge, UConn is my team, of course I want it succeed. Once Ollie was named the coach, he became my guy. KO's success wouldn't kill me, it would make me happy. You don't seem like a very deep thinker. Save the psychoanalysis for the experts.

Please tell me where the untruth is here:

• You believe that JC held the program hostage by delaying his retirement announcement long enough to leave Manuel with no practical choice but to install JC's hand-picked successor, KO, as head coach on at least an interim basis for the next seven months.
• You cannot seriously claim that Manuel would have given KO a shot as head coach otherwise.
• You believe that JC was wrong to tie the Manuel's hands in this way (and have stated so repeatedly).

So, how do escape the conclusion that, if Kevin succeeds here, we owe that success in large part to JC having done exactly what you said he should not have done?

 

[ctchamps]

Please tell me where the untruth is here:

• You believe that JC held the program hostage by delaying his retirement announcement long enough to leave Manuel with no practical choice but to install JC's hand-picked successor, KO, as head coach on at least an interim basis for the next seven months.
• You cannot seriously claim that Manuel would have given KO a shot as head coach otherwise.
• You believe that JC was wrong to tie the Manuel's hands in this way (and have stated so repeatedly).

So, how do escape the conclusion that, if Kevin succeeds here, we owe that success in large part to JC having done exactly what you said he should not have done?

Is it true Manuel had no other practical choice? I thought Miller was a possible option floated by people after the 2010 season when people postulated JC would soon retire. And what about Hobbs?

So Manuel definitely had the option of choosing between three former head coaches or the "unexperienced" guy from JC's staff.

JC may have left Manuel unable to do a national search, but ultimately Manuel selected KO over Hobbs, Miller and Blaney.

 

[8893]

Is it true Manuel had no other practical choice? I thought Miller was a possible option floated by people after the 2010 season when people postulated JC would soon retire. And what about Hobbs?

So Manuel definitely had the option of choosing between three former head coaches or the "unexperienced" guy from JC's staff.

JC may have left Manuel unable to do a national search, but ultimately Manuel selected KO over Hobbs, Miller and Blaney.

Agreed, except that I believe the only people who mattered to Manuel and supported Blaney, Miller or Hobbs were, at most, Blaney, Miller and Hobbs (and I refuse to believe that Blaney was considered or even wanted to be). We know that JC and Herbst wanted KO. You are Warde Manuel: Do you think there was another practical choice?

 

[huskymedic]

Agreed, except that I believe the only people who mattered to Manuel and supported Miller or Hobbs were, at most, Miller and Hobbs. We know that JC and Herbst wanted KO. You are Warde Manuel: Do you think there was another practical choice?

... And we know SH wanted KO how?

 

[ctchamps]

Agreed, except that I believe the only people who mattered to Manuel and supported Blaney, Miller or Hobbs were, at most, Blaney, Miller and Hobbs (and I refuse to believe that Blaney was considered or even wanted to be). We know that JC and Herbst wanted KO. You are Warde Manuel: Do you think there was another practical choice?

Of course, all of us are conjecturing, but if JC and Herbst were putting the pressure on WM, why just a seven month contract? The point is if WM decided on the duration which was against JC's wishes, why not just choose Miller?

 

[8893]

... And we know SH wanted KO how?

I don't have the links and I'm not going to search them out, but I read numerous reports to that effect, including at least one in which it was reported that some recruits met with her and came away assured that KO would succeed JC, only to have Manuel place that assurance in doubt soon thereafter.

 

[8893]

Of course, all of us are conjecturing, but if JC and Herbst were putting the pressure on WM, why just a seven month contract? The point is if WM decided on the duration which was against JC's wishes, why not just choose Miller?

I don't think Herbst put pressure on Manuel re the length of the contract. I think she let it be known that she liked JC a lot, and that she liked and in believed in KO, based at least in part on JC's having given her reason to believe that she should. One thing I do agree with Waquit about is that this was absolutely a master stroke by JC. Manuel's nuts are in a vise right now, and will be until and unless KO gives him no other choice but to extend him or fire him. My guess is that it will be somewhere in the middle, and Manuel will face some donors and others whispering in his ear that he should bring in an established name; versus fans, media, alumni and others who believe he should give Kevin more of a chance.

 

[huskymedic]

I don't have the links and I'm not going to search them out, but I read numerous reports to that effect, including at least one in which it was reported that some recruits met with her and came away assured that KO would succeed JC, only to have Manuel place that assurance in doubt soon thereafter.

Don't buy it... She played Kissinger. She is the President and if she wanted KO to have a longer length contract - he would wold have a longer length contract. Before you go sideways- I lke KO and want to see what rabbit he pulls out of his hat.

 

[8893]

Don't buy it... She played Kissinger. She is the President and if she wanted KO to have a longer length contract - he would wold have a longer length contract. Before you go sideways- I lke KO and want to see what rabbit he pulls out of his hat.

I'm not selling anything, and I am not upset if people don't want KO--there are legitimate arguments there. I'm not saying that Herbst weighed in on the length of the contract. I think she let Manuel do his job. She let it be known that she liked JC and believed in KO, but left the decision to Manuel.

Admittedly, Manuel is in a tough spot. The coach who built our program retired and the conference in which it has thrived collapsed, leaving the entire athletic program in jeopardy. He has a limited ability to control either situation, but will be held responsible for both.

 

[Waquoit]

Manuel's nuts are in a vise right now, and will be until and unless KO gives him no other choice but to extend him or fire him.

Tell me how UConn is well served by having the AD's "nuts in a vice"?

 

[Kitaman]

Could it be just that because of the timing where Manuel couldn't accurately contract Ollie? After the 1st year (and during for that matter) EM and Kevin can negotiate a fair contract with terms and incentives. Regardless of what we all may think its hard to determine market value so quickly especially with no experience (i.e. coaching). The unknown issue is when did Calhoun inform EM of his intentions? If it was within the week of the press conference then EM can be absolved, especially if he 'really' wants Kevin to stay on.

Just putting my business cap on and suggesting it could be a contractual/compensation issue with an unknown commodity. In other words you don't want to underpay (or overpay) Kevin. I expect fair value in 10-12 months for Ollie. I still say that scenario, if accurate, is fine.

 

[upstater]

Could it be just that because of the timing where Manuel couldn't accurately contract Ollie? After the 1st year (and during for that matter) EM and Kevin can negotiate a fair contract with terms and incentives. Regardless of what we all may think its hard to determine market value so quickly especially with no experience (i.e. coaching). The unknown issue is when did Calhoun inform EM of his intentions? If it was within the week of the press conference then EM can be absolved, especially if he 'really' wants Kevin to stay on.

Just putting my business cap on and suggesting it could be a contractual/compensation issue with an unknown commodity. In other words you don't want to underpay (or overpay) Kevin. I expect fair value in 10-12 months for Ollie. I still say that scenario, if accurate, is fine.

Any new coach with no bigtime coaching experience would get starting pay for a BCS conference school. He wouldn't gt more than that. In other words, what did Mick Cronin get?

 

[8893]

Tell me how UConn is well served by having the AD's "nuts in a vice"?

Nice duck. Even though you haven't answered my query, I'll answer yours--again.

If you accept as fact that Manuel would not have given Ollie a shot otherwise--which I now believe to be true--and you believe that Ollie will be successful here, UConn will have been well-served by Calhoun's master plan, which unfortunately appears to have required that our AD be squeezed in the process.

 

[Waquoit]

Nice duck. Even though you haven't answered my query, I'll answer yours--again.

If you accept as fact that Manuel would not have given Ollie a shot otherwise--which I now believe to be true--and you believe that Ollie will be successful here, UConn will have been well-served by Calhoun's master plan, which unfortunately appears to have required that our AD be squeezed in the process.

I have no reason to "accept as fact" that Manual would not have offered the job to Ollie. All Manuel said is that he was against naming a coach-in-waiting. My problem with the whole thing is, unlike you, I am a UConn fan. You are a Calhoun fan first and foremost. A UConn fan would not take such glee from the AD's nuts being in a vice and be so glib about the AD getting squeezed. The two things are very close, but they are not the same. As a Calhoun fan you believe that he is acting solely in UConn's best interest when he is acting in his own best interest first and foremost. Hopefully, our two interests will reach a mutually beneficial outcome. But no matter the outcome, I don't think UConn is "well-served" by kneecapping the AD in these critical times. You are saying that the ends justify the means, I'm not going to say that.

 

[freescooter]

All of this assumes Ollie will succeed. But if he doesn't? My biggest worry is not that he won't have pretty good teams, but that he will have pretty good teams...he'll be Herb Sendek as I said before. or Bruce Pearl without the cheating. Win enoough games to keep from getting fired but never enough so that anyone will care. That's why I keep asking the pro-Ollie people what their standard is going to be for the guy. Very few answer but I can sense that Sendek will be perfectly acceptable. And that is what separates UConn from the true bluebloods of college basketball I think.

 

[jibsey]

It's not even about winning its just keeping the program in the mix, and he does it if he can put the right players on our sidelines first. Recruiting in this transition period is the toughest thing and if he does that I think he's on his way. Would have liked 2 years though.

 

[8893]

I have no reason to "accept as fact" that Manual would not have offered the job to Ollie.

If that's your out, so be it. I don't see how a critical thinker could reach any other conclusion, but that wouldn't prevent you from doing so.

I was a UConn fan long before Calhoun, and will be long after. I just have a good deal more faith in him than you do. Now you can cue your Paterno analogies again, because this situation is sooooo similar to that one...

All of this assumes Ollie will succeed. But if he doesn't?

Of course it assumes that. If he doesn't, I am sure you and Waquit will remind us constantly whose fault you believe it is. Until then, it's anybody's guess. In the meantime, my preference is to believe that he will succeed.

 

[Kitaman]

Any new coach with no bigtime coaching experience would get starting pay for a BCS conference school. He wouldn't gt more than that. In other words, what did Mick Cronin get?

I'm not arguing here but I would have to believe with Cronin there were negotiations and agreements that took place, along with sufficient time. Secondly Cronin was perhaps sought after or at the very least won the job through an application process. All I am saying is that Manuel did not have a lot of time and flexibility, and there was a sense of urgency/emergency. We were without a coach a month or so before our first practice, and in the middle of procuring recruits. Ollie may have been a band-aid decision but I am sure when all is said and done he will be rewarded for a multitude of reasons, most notably his qualifications, which may be worth more than starting pay. It was not the best of situations for Manuel, Ollie or our school.

 

[freescooter]

I sure hope he will succeed. My second choice is that he'll be a clear disaster from the get go. My biggest fear, as I've said, is that he'll be a career 20-12, 9-9 guy. Because I think most UConn fans will find that acceptable and slowly but surely we'll become an afterthought. My own view is that if we haven't made a deep tournament run within 3 years it will be time to find a new head coach, if we haven't made 2 deep runs in 5 years, time for a new coach. Otherwise you're just accepting mediocrity.