What do you think about the one year audition for KO?

[uconnfan68]

This is about the stupidest way it could be handled. I think Warde Manuel is an ego maniac and is more interested in winning a pissing match with Calhoun than he is in doing what is best for UConn.

Give Ollie a 3 year deal. Ollie will be cheap, so if Manuel wants to can him after a year or 2, it won't be that hard. But at least give Ollie the chance to be successful, particularly with recruiting.

Can we agree to disagree? Even KO admits it's about UConn.

 

[selles]

1) I stopped clicking through this page about page 7. Am I missing anything good in pages 8-18?

Nope. After the high of Thursday's press conference, this thread does its best to kill your soul.

JC pulled an egomaniacal ploy to exert his dominance over the program! No wait, it's Warde Manuel who pulled the egomaniacal ploy so that he can kick KO out after a year and hand the reins to Pol Pot! No wait, it's all Susan Herbst's fault! What the heck has she ever done anyway? JC's going to be hanging around like the father in law who knows everything and won't shut up! Any recruit worth a darn is going to reject us after his lawyer reviews the terms of KO's contract! Hey guys, KO says y'all too much!

Good lord.

Why does there have to be a villain here? JC, who views the UConn program as a family, ensured that a hand-picked member of the family would be his immediate successor. Entirely rational. Warde Manuel, who is responsible for ensuring that the continued success of the program, took note of the fact that the successor has no head coaching experience and hedged his bets by giving only a 1 year contract. Again, entirely rational. No one acted wrongly or unreasonably here.

Most distressing is the almost complete neglect of the tour de force from KO himself on Thursday, which was the absolute antithesis of this thread. He is about relentless positivity and effort. He's not afraid of the 1 year deal, so why should we be? It's just one step on the staircase. And you've got to be kidding me with the recruiting concerns, this guy could sell ice to eskimos, except he's too honest and genuine for that...which only helps his appeal.

This thread is seriously begging for MakersMuppet to come in and blast it to smithereens.

 

[Dogbreath2U]

I would have liked to see Ollie given a longer contract once the decision was made to hire him as the head coach and not the "interim head coach," but I also think that it is likely that Warde Manual has a legitimate perspective and felt obligation to do what he believes to be right for UConn...a due diligence sort of thing. Maybe it does not have to be the white hats versus the black hats. If KO did turn out to suck (which I don't expect), many on The Boneyard would want his head in no time. Maybe there is no perfect, painless way for this to play out, so let's cross our fingers and hope XRM and some others take a chance on Kevin Ollie.

 

[mauconnfan]

Agree with DB2u..............end it. KO is good with fighting for his rightful spot in UConn coaching histroy then we should be too.......he's going to win and earn it and because of who he is people shouldn't have any doubt about that.......and I'm hoping recruits won't either.......

 

[upstater]

Ridiculous speculation at best. I think lots of people throw their hat in against a guy who has never coached for one of the bigger name jobs in the country.

This is all pointless. It is done. I am a Kevin Ollie fan. I hope he earns an extension. I hope JC is right.

Of course it's speculation. It's a hypothetical. Wow.

The point is, Calhoun and the whole UConn bball family other than Manuel had an inside candidate. The prospect oflosing out to such a guy is not appealing for a higher profile coach. This is how it ALWAYS plays out with inside candidates. I see people with much better credentials than the insider always holding back in such situations for precisely the reasons i outlined.

 

[8893]

Why does there have to be a villain here?

You really haven't been paying attention the past 26 years, have you?

There is always a villain. Until there's another National Championship, when we get about a two-month reprieve.

 

[Waquoit]

FWIW, a "football guy" gets the credit for hiring Calhoun. Saying "football guy" as a term of derision is stupid. Manual is an athletic department guy. Don't understand these Manual bashers as JC walking all over the AD worked so well before.

 

[James]

People are gonna want Ollie's head after he struggles with our porous front court. And people saying you don't need big men to win anymore , F OUTA HERE. You need at least ONE.

 

[James]

If anything that's the center of my issue with the one year contract. he must be successful under these conditions? How?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Small potato differences.

I'm talking about background here. Both are assistants. I'll put Ollie 13 years in the NBA against Hopkins 13 years as an assistant. Ollie was a coach on the floor and a mentor teaching the game.

Except that one was actually a coaching job, and the other was a player at the end of the bench.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

Except that one was actually a coaching job, and the other was a player at the end of the bench.

And George Blaney has 9,000 years of coaching experience. Still doesn't mean that anybody would choose him over Ollie, Hopkins, or anybody else.

Experience matters, of course. But not as much as the "it" factor - the ability to relate to players, impress recruits, and get guys to play hard and buy in. We'll find out for sure soon enough, but there aren't many people doubting Ollie on those fronts.

 

[upstater]

Except that one was actually a coaching job, and the other was a player at the end of the bench.

And you have the expertise to tell us the difference in terms of basketball knowledge and imparting that knowledge?

By all accounts, Ollie survived in the league precisely because he was great at bringing along younger players in terms of the game, preparation, etc. He survived because of his point guard knowledge, not because of flashy skills.

This doesn't mean he'll be a success, but if you want a blueprint for a coach that played more than he coached and ended up being a big success, look at Bill Donovan. He played pro for several years after college, became an assistant for 3 years, then took over Marshall for 2 years (pretty mediocre there) before landing Florida (largely due to his Pitino connection). In the pros, there are guys like Scott Skiles all over the place.

Compare this to young coaches like the Memphis guy or some others that are brought up quickly and no one seems to bat an eye.

I think being a point guard like Ollie for so long is worth a lot. More than assistant coaching? Less?

We shall see.

 

[DogMania]

People are gonna want Ollie's head after he struggles with our porous front court. And people saying you don't need big men to win anymore , F OUTA HERE. You need at least ONE.

If Herbst, Manuel and many fans don't take into account the personnel he has to play with, they're making a huge mistake in evaluating him. IMO, KO makes a strong case for himself if the team competes well, exceeds expecations and makes some noise in the BE this season. I would have added recruiting to the mix, but IMO, Manuel and Herbst set KO up for failure in that regard by not giving him a long term contract. Expecting recruits to commit to a program that doesn't have a HC under contract next fall is asking a lot. With that said hopefully the two that committed will sign their LOIs and KO finds a way to convince a few others to be part of something special even with that uncertainty.

Does anyone else think the above is enough for KO to make his case? I don't know if the bigs we have will be enough night-in, night-out, but as long as they play well enough for the team to stay close and win some unexpected games, I'm good with that.

 

[HuskyHawk]

And you have the expertise to tell us the difference in terms of basketball knowledge and imparting that knowledge?

By all accounts, Ollie survived in the league precisely because he was great at bringing along younger players in terms of the game, preparation, etc. He survived because of his point guard knowledge, not because of flashy skills.

This doesn't mean he'll be a success, but if you want a blueprint for a coach that played more than he coached and ended up being a big success, look at Bill Donovan. He played pro for several years after college, became an assistant for 3 years, then took over Marshall for 2 years (pretty mediocre there) before landing Florida (largely due to his Pitino connection). In the pros, there are guys like Scott Skiles all over the place.

Compare this to young coaches like the Memphis guy or some others that are brought up quickly and no one seems to bat an eye.

I think being a point guard like Ollie for so long is worth a lot. More than assistant coaching? Less?

We shall see.

I don't think the lack of coaching experience means that Ollie can't be a great coach. I think what it means is exactly what Warde Manuel says, we've never seen him coach a single game. Not even at High School. So is 13 years a pro worth something. Sure. Hell, does anyone doubt that he knows the game and can relate to young players? I don't think so. That's not the issue. The issue is that we've never observed him coaching a game. How does he handle subs? How does he get the team up after a loss and keep them focused after a big win? What kind of offensive and defensive systems will he run? Man, press, 2-3, trapping zone press. What about offense? Pro-style? Variation on the Princeton offense? Maybe the Phil Jackson style. In short, we have no idea what we're in for here, and whether what he tries to do will work. We can't set the bar too high with this group of players, but I think we'll find out what Mr. Ollie is all about by February. Honestly, if he's mimicking the offensive sets JC used the last several years, I'd look for somebody else.

 

[8893]

If Herbst, Manuel and many fans don't take into account the personnel he has to play with, they're making a huge mistake in evaluating him. IMO, KO makes a strong case for himself if the team competes well, exceeds expecations and makes some noise in the BE this season. I would have added recruiting to the mix, but IMO, Manuel and Herbst set KO up for failure in that regard by not giving him a long term contract. Expecting recruits to commit to a program that doesn't have a HC under contract next fall is asking a lot. With that said hopefully the two that committed will sign their LOIs and KO finds a way to convince a few others to be part of something special even with that uncertainty.

Does anyone else think the above is enough for KO to make his case? I don't know if the bigs we have will be enough night-in, night-out, but as long as they play well enough for the team to stay close and win some unexpected games, I'm good with that.

Do we know that Herbst had any role in the decision to offer Kevin a seven-month contract versus something longer? My sense was that, although she let it be known that she likes Kevin, she left the decision to Manuel. I'm guessing she wouldn't have had any problem with a two-year deal, but she's judging her AD by the quality of his decisions--just as he will be judging Kevin--and she is letting him make the final decisions on this.

Manuel was careful not to specify the exact criteria on which he intends to judge Kevin. I don't think he knows exactly what he's looking for himself yet. Barring an extreme disaster or a exceptionally strong record, he'll have enough of a basis to make any decision he wants to make and corral whatever factors he can to support that decision.

 

[upstater]

I don't think the lack of coaching experience means that Ollie can't be a great coach. I think what it means is exactly what Warde Manuel says, we've never seen him coach a single game. Not even at High School. So is 13 years a pro worth something. Sure. Hell, does anyone doubt that he knows the game and can relate to young players? I don't think so. That's not the issue. The issue is that we've never observed him coaching a game. How does he handle subs? How does he get the team up after a loss and keep them focused after a big win? What kind of offensive and defensive systems will he run? Man, press, 2-3, trapping zone press. What about offense? Pro-style? Variation on the Princeton offense? Maybe the Phil Jackson style. In short, we have no idea what we're in for here, and whether what he tries to do will work. We can't set the bar too high with this group of players, but I think we'll find out what Mr. Ollie is all about by February. Honestly, if he's mimicking the offensive sets JC used the last several years, I'd look for somebody else.

I was with you entirely until the last comment. JC didn't forget how to coach offense the last two years. He's been at it since forever. Clearly, here were other issues. Also, he coached offense well enough in 2011.

 

[Waquoit]

If Herbst, Manuel and many fans don't take into account the personnel he has to play with, they're making a huge mistake in evaluating him.

I'm pretty sure the evaluation is going to be less about the W's and L's and more about how KO does as the CEO of the basketball program.

 

[freescooter]

And George Blaney has 9,000 years of coaching experience. Still doesn't mean that anybody would choose him over Ollie, Hopkins, or anybody else.

Experience matters, of course. But not as much as the "it" factor - the ability to relate to players, impress recruits, and get guys to play hard and buy in. We'll find out for sure soon enough, but there aren't many people doubting Ollie on those fronts.

You are absolutely wrong. You need to know the game, have a sense of what you can do, how to adjust on the fly, how to get the most out of your team while limiting the ability of the other guy to get the most out of his...hint: it is way more than playing hard. If Calhoun doesn't figure out how to defend Duke's big man in 1999, no amount of "playing hard" matters.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I was with you entirely until the last comment. JC didn't forget how to coach offense the last two years. He's been at it since forever. Clearly, here were other issues. Also, he coached offense well enough in 2011.

His offense was terrible, even in 2011. Kemba and the awakening of Lamb provided enough because the team played stellar defense in the postseason. I want to see a different approach.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You are absolutely wrong. You need to know the game, have a sense of what you can do, how to adjust on the fly, how to get the most out of your team while limiting the ability of the other guy to get the most out of his...hint: it is way more than playing hard. If Calhoun doesn't figure out how to defend Duke's big man in 1999, no amount of "playing hard" matters.

His defense on Shaq was also memorable for me. It was brilliant really. Leave him alone and smother the other 4 guys so that they can't even get the ball to him.

 

[upstater]

His offense was terrible, even in 2011. Kemba and the awakening of Lamb provided enough because the team played stellar defense in the postseason. I want to see a different approach.

I just totally disagree with you here. For the type of players they had, it's amazing they designed an offense where you knew Kemba and Lamb were taking all the shots, and yet the opponents could do little about it. That takes some doing.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

You are absolutely wrong. You need to know the game, have a sense of what you can do, how to adjust on the fly, how to get the most out of your team while limiting the ability of the other guy to get the most out of his...hint: it is way more than playing hard. If Calhoun doesn't figure out how to defend Duke's big man in 1999, no amount of "playing hard" matters.

Thank you for pointing out that "knowing the game is important." My point was in response to the Syracuse fan claiming that Mike Hopkins automatically has a leg up on Ollie because of his years as an assistant coach. The number of years of coaching experience doesn't automatically translate to coaching success. George Blaney has forgotten more about basketball than any of us will ever know, yet he still hasn't figured out when to call timeouts.

 

[IthacaMatt]

And you have the expertise to tell us the difference in terms of basketball knowledge and imparting that knowledge?

By all accounts, Ollie survived in the league precisely because he was great at bringing along younger players in terms of the game, preparation, etc. He survived because of his point guard knowledge, not because of flashy skills.

This doesn't mean he'll be a success, but if you want a blueprint for a coach that played more than he coached and ended up being a big success, look at Bill Donovan. He played pro for several years after college, became an assistant for 3 years, then took over Marshall for 2 years (pretty mediocre there) before landing Florida (largely due to his Pitino connection). In the pros, there are guys like Scott Skiles all over the place.

Compare this to young coaches like the Memphis guy or some others that are brought up quickly and no one seems to bat an eye.

I think being a point guard like Ollie for so long is worth a lot. More than assistant coaching? Less?

We shall see.

Look, if playing and coaching were equivalent skills, we'd see a lot more former players step in as coaches without any (or with little) previous coaching experience. And for some reason, we don't. Now, you can judge that for yourself. But to most unbiased observers, Ollie is a stretch hire, and most people wouldn't place him in the top group of potential coaches for your program. That's why Manuel wants to get to do his own search. And to make such a public statement of only giving Ollie a 7 month contract speaks volumes that Manuel wants to cut his financial exposure to the point where it comes off as a vote of no confidence in Ollie. This thread has already gone on too long, now, so I'll just bow out with that observation.

 

[caw]

Look, if playing and coaching were equivalent skills, we'd see a lot more former players step in as coaches without any (or with little) previous coaching experience. And for some reason, we don't. Now, you can judge that for yourself. But to most unbiased observers, Ollie is a stretch hire, and most people wouldn't place him in the top group of potential coaches for your program. That's why Manuel wants to get to do his own search. And to make such a public statement of only giving Ollie a 7 month contract speaks volumes that Manuel wants to cut his financial exposure to the point where it comes off as a vote of no confidence in Ollie. This thread has already gone on too long, now, so I'll just bow out with that observation.

Yes, but UConn fans love Ollie mostly.

BTW not everyone spends a ton of years as an assistant:

Billy Donovan 5
Jim Calhoun 0
Phil Jackson 2
Calipari 6
John Wooden 0
Jerry Tarkanian 0
John Thompson Jr. 0
John Thompson III 5
Pete Carril 0 (before being head coach of Princeton, became an assistant after)
Bob Huggins 4
John Chaney 0
Lute Olson 1
Mike Kryzewski 1
Bobby Knight 3

Some of those were players, some did coach at lower levels (high school, D2, etc.) but they weren't assistants.

Let me know if I'm off a year or two.

 

[upstater]

Look, if playing and coaching were equivalent skills, we'd see a lot more former players step in as coaches without any (or with little) previous coaching experience. And for some reason, we don't. Now, you can judge that for yourself. But to most unbiased observers, Ollie is a stretch hire, and most people wouldn't place him in the top group of potential coaches for your program. That's why Manuel wants to get to do his own search. And to make such a public statement of only giving Ollie a 7 month contract speaks volumes that Manuel wants to cut his financial exposure to the point where it comes off as a vote of no confidence in Ollie. This thread has already gone on too long, now, so I'll just bow out with that observation.

We do see former players do it. in the NBA it happens a lot. I gave you the Billy Donovan example as well. As for Warde Manuel, I think he's making a mistake. Calhoun knows more han he does about this, surely.

 

[Waquoit]

Yes, but UConn fans love Ollie mostly.

BTW not everyone spends a ton of years as an assistant:

Billy Donovan 5
Jim Calhoun 0
Phil Jackson 2
Calipari 6
John Wooden 0
Jerry Tarkanian 0
John Thompson Jr. 0
John Thompson III 5
Pete Carril 0 (before being head coach of Princeton, became an assistant after)
Bob Huggins 4
John Chaney 0
Lute Olson 1
Mike Kryzewski 1
Bobby Knight 3

Some of those were players, some did coach at lower levels (high school, D2, etc.) but they weren't assistants.

Let me know if I'm off a year or two.

So if I read this right, the only guys you mention under the age of 50 were assistants for at least 5 years. Times have changed, I don't think you prove your case here.

 

[caw]

So if I read this right, the only guys you mention under the age of 50 were assistants for at least 5 years. Times have changed, I don't think you prove your case here.

OK, change the goalpost. I see nothing about young coaches in the post I was replying to... I think this amply shows that good/great coaches don't need to be assistants, BTW how many good (let alone great) coaches are even under 50?

To answer your question, yes, it is nearly impossible to become a head coach without being an assistant first these days, but is that due to over-saturation in the coaching ranks or the actual need to be an assistant first? I think the older guys show it may be the former and not the later.

Fred Hoiberg 0 years
Dan Hurley 5 years
Brad Stevens 6 years

I'm sure you will recognize the first name. The post I was responding to was in regards to seeing coaches with little to no experience.

BTW: Five is a lot closer to two than to sixteen and is a relatively short time overall.

 

[freescooter]

We do see former players do it. in the NBA it happens a lot. I gave you the Billy Donovan example as well. As for Warde Manuel, I think he's making a mistake. Calhoun knows more han he does about this, surely.

yeah, I mean look at how many of Calhoun's assistants are coaching big time programs...Why Woodward at Maine has done pretty well, Moore is doing ok at Quinnipiac, oh and Leatio just got hired at Missouri...well as an assitant, not the head coach. Oh and Howie...can't think of any others who have made it as head coaches...they have all washed out at the mid-major level.

 

[Waquoit]

they have all washed out at the mid-major level.

That's a bit harsh. All of his guys had good runs. Too bad for Leitao, DePaul was the spot for him. But that's why Ollie is the man on the throne now. No way JC was going to sell (or an AD was going to buy) a guy who is coming off of being fired from his last HC job.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

yeah, I mean look at how many of Calhoun's assistants are coaching big time programs...Why Woodward at Maine has done pretty well, Moore is doing ok at Quinnipiac, oh and Leatio just got hired at Missouri...well as an assitant, not the head coach. Oh and Howie...can't think of any others who have made it as head coaches...they have all washed out at the mid-major level.

Running off that list of names is meaningless. Calhoun has only had two assistants in his tenure who he felt were worthy of being the next coach at Uconn - Ollie and Tom Moore. If you want to use Moore as an example of failure...I think that's a bit unfair but whatever. But Ted Woodward's lack of success at Maine doesn't have the slightest bit to do with Kevin Ollie.