What do you think about the one year audition for KO?

[ctchamps]

Agreed, except that I believe the only people who mattered to Manuel and supported Blaney, Miller or Hobbs were, at most, Blaney, Miller and Hobbs (and I refuse to believe that Blaney was considered or even wanted to be). We know that JC and Herbst wanted KO. You are Warde Manuel: Do you think there was another practical choice?

Of course, all of us are conjecturing, but if JC and Herbst were putting the pressure on WM, why just a seven month contract? The point is if WM decided on the duration which was against JC's wishes, why not just choose Miller?

 

[8893]

... And we know SH wanted KO how?

I don't have the links and I'm not going to search them out, but I read numerous reports to that effect, including at least one in which it was reported that some recruits met with her and came away assured that KO would succeed JC, only to have Manuel place that assurance in doubt soon thereafter.

 

[8893]

Of course, all of us are conjecturing, but if JC and Herbst were putting the pressure on WM, why just a seven month contract? The point is if WM decided on the duration which was against JC's wishes, why not just choose Miller?

I don't think Herbst put pressure on Manuel re the length of the contract. I think she let it be known that she liked JC a lot, and that she liked and in believed in KO, based at least in part on JC's having given her reason to believe that she should. One thing I do agree with Waquit about is that this was absolutely a master stroke by JC. Manuel's nuts are in a vise right now, and will be until and unless KO gives him no other choice but to extend him or fire him. My guess is that it will be somewhere in the middle, and Manuel will face some donors and others whispering in his ear that he should bring in an established name; versus fans, media, alumni and others who believe he should give Kevin more of a chance.

 

[huskymedic]

I don't have the links and I'm not going to search them out, but I read numerous reports to that effect, including at least one in which it was reported that some recruits met with her and came away assured that KO would succeed JC, only to have Manuel place that assurance in doubt soon thereafter.

Don't buy it... She played Kissinger. She is the President and if she wanted KO to have a longer length contract - he would wold have a longer length contract. Before you go sideways- I lke KO and want to see what rabbit he pulls out of his hat.

 

[8893]

Don't buy it... She played Kissinger. She is the President and if she wanted KO to have a longer length contract - he would wold have a longer length contract. Before you go sideways- I lke KO and want to see what rabbit he pulls out of his hat.

I'm not selling anything, and I am not upset if people don't want KO--there are legitimate arguments there. I'm not saying that Herbst weighed in on the length of the contract. I think she let Manuel do his job. She let it be known that she liked JC and believed in KO, but left the decision to Manuel.

Admittedly, Manuel is in a tough spot. The coach who built our program retired and the conference in which it has thrived collapsed, leaving the entire athletic program in jeopardy. He has a limited ability to control either situation, but will be held responsible for both.

 

[Waquoit]

Manuel's nuts are in a vise right now, and will be until and unless KO gives him no other choice but to extend him or fire him.

Tell me how UConn is well served by having the AD's "nuts in a vice"?

 

[Kitaman]

Could it be just that because of the timing where Manuel couldn't accurately contract Ollie? After the 1st year (and during for that matter) EM and Kevin can negotiate a fair contract with terms and incentives. Regardless of what we all may think its hard to determine market value so quickly especially with no experience (i.e. coaching). The unknown issue is when did Calhoun inform EM of his intentions? If it was within the week of the press conference then EM can be absolved, especially if he 'really' wants Kevin to stay on.

Just putting my business cap on and suggesting it could be a contractual/compensation issue with an unknown commodity. In other words you don't want to underpay (or overpay) Kevin. I expect fair value in 10-12 months for Ollie. I still say that scenario, if accurate, is fine.

 

[upstater]

Could it be just that because of the timing where Manuel couldn't accurately contract Ollie? After the 1st year (and during for that matter) EM and Kevin can negotiate a fair contract with terms and incentives. Regardless of what we all may think its hard to determine market value so quickly especially with no experience (i.e. coaching). The unknown issue is when did Calhoun inform EM of his intentions? If it was within the week of the press conference then EM can be absolved, especially if he 'really' wants Kevin to stay on.

Just putting my business cap on and suggesting it could be a contractual/compensation issue with an unknown commodity. In other words you don't want to underpay (or overpay) Kevin. I expect fair value in 10-12 months for Ollie. I still say that scenario, if accurate, is fine.

Any new coach with no bigtime coaching experience would get starting pay for a BCS conference school. He wouldn't gt more than that. In other words, what did Mick Cronin get?

 

[8893]

Tell me how UConn is well served by having the AD's "nuts in a vice"?

Nice duck. Even though you haven't answered my query, I'll answer yours--again.

If you accept as fact that Manuel would not have given Ollie a shot otherwise--which I now believe to be true--and you believe that Ollie will be successful here, UConn will have been well-served by Calhoun's master plan, which unfortunately appears to have required that our AD be squeezed in the process.

 

[Waquoit]

Nice duck. Even though you haven't answered my query, I'll answer yours--again.

If you accept as fact that Manuel would not have given Ollie a shot otherwise--which I now believe to be true--and you believe that Ollie will be successful here, UConn will have been well-served by Calhoun's master plan, which unfortunately appears to have required that our AD be squeezed in the process.

I have no reason to "accept as fact" that Manual would not have offered the job to Ollie. All Manuel said is that he was against naming a coach-in-waiting. My problem with the whole thing is, unlike you, I am a UConn fan. You are a Calhoun fan first and foremost. A UConn fan would not take such glee from the AD's nuts being in a vice and be so glib about the AD getting squeezed. The two things are very close, but they are not the same. As a Calhoun fan you believe that he is acting solely in UConn's best interest when he is acting in his own best interest first and foremost. Hopefully, our two interests will reach a mutually beneficial outcome. But no matter the outcome, I don't think UConn is "well-served" by kneecapping the AD in these critical times. You are saying that the ends justify the means, I'm not going to say that.

 

[freescooter]

All of this assumes Ollie will succeed. But if he doesn't? My biggest worry is not that he won't have pretty good teams, but that he will have pretty good teams...he'll be Herb Sendek as I said before. or Bruce Pearl without the cheating. Win enoough games to keep from getting fired but never enough so that anyone will care. That's why I keep asking the pro-Ollie people what their standard is going to be for the guy. Very few answer but I can sense that Sendek will be perfectly acceptable. And that is what separates UConn from the true bluebloods of college basketball I think.

 

[jibsey]

It's not even about winning its just keeping the program in the mix, and he does it if he can put the right players on our sidelines first. Recruiting in this transition period is the toughest thing and if he does that I think he's on his way. Would have liked 2 years though.

 

[8893]

I have no reason to "accept as fact" that Manual would not have offered the job to Ollie.

If that's your out, so be it. I don't see how a critical thinker could reach any other conclusion, but that wouldn't prevent you from doing so.

I was a UConn fan long before Calhoun, and will be long after. I just have a good deal more faith in him than you do. Now you can cue your Paterno analogies again, because this situation is sooooo similar to that one...

All of this assumes Ollie will succeed. But if he doesn't?

Of course it assumes that. If he doesn't, I am sure you and Waquit will remind us constantly whose fault you believe it is. Until then, it's anybody's guess. In the meantime, my preference is to believe that he will succeed.

 

[Kitaman]

Any new coach with no bigtime coaching experience would get starting pay for a BCS conference school. He wouldn't gt more than that. In other words, what did Mick Cronin get?

I'm not arguing here but I would have to believe with Cronin there were negotiations and agreements that took place, along with sufficient time. Secondly Cronin was perhaps sought after or at the very least won the job through an application process. All I am saying is that Manuel did not have a lot of time and flexibility, and there was a sense of urgency/emergency. We were without a coach a month or so before our first practice, and in the middle of procuring recruits. Ollie may have been a band-aid decision but I am sure when all is said and done he will be rewarded for a multitude of reasons, most notably his qualifications, which may be worth more than starting pay. It was not the best of situations for Manuel, Ollie or our school.

 

[freescooter]

I sure hope he will succeed. My second choice is that he'll be a clear disaster from the get go. My biggest fear, as I've said, is that he'll be a career 20-12, 9-9 guy. Because I think most UConn fans will find that acceptable and slowly but surely we'll become an afterthought. My own view is that if we haven't made a deep tournament run within 3 years it will be time to find a new head coach, if we haven't made 2 deep runs in 5 years, time for a new coach. Otherwise you're just accepting mediocrity.

 

[freescooter]

I'm not arguing here but I would have to believe with Cronin there were negotiations and agreements that took place, along with sufficient time. Secondly Cronin was perhaps sought after or at the very least won the job through an application process. All I am saying is that Manuel did not have a lot of time and flexibility, and there was a sense of urgency/emergency. We were without a coach a month or so before our first practice, and in the middle of procuring recruits. Ollie may have been a band-aid decision but I am sure when all is said and done he will be rewarded for a multitude of reasons, most notably his qualifications, which may be worth more than starting pay. It was not the best of situations for Manuel, Ollie or our school.

Two people benefitted form this...Ollie obviously in the short term and Calhoun, who got his way. Manuel certainly didn't. UConn didn't.

 

[Waquoit]

If that's your out, so be it.

My out? We're done here.

 

[8893]

My out? We're done here.

Awww. But we had so much promise!

 

[upstater]

Two people benefitted form this...Ollie obviously in the short term and Calhoun, who got his way. Manuel certainly didn't. UConn didn't.

UConn didn't benefit, eh?
Did you ever once stop to consider that if Ollie were a candidate for the job, when Calhoun was on the hiring committee, no coach of any stature would have thrown his hat in the ring?
In order to conduct a truly national search, Ollie would have had to have been eliminated from the start.

So, how, please tell me, was UConn damaged here?

 

[upstater]

I'm not arguing here but I would have to believe with Cronin there were negotiations and agreements that took place, along with sufficient time. Secondly Cronin was perhaps sought after or at the very least won the job through an application process. All I am saying is that Manuel did not have a lot of time and flexibility, and there was a sense of urgency/emergency. We were without a coach a month or so before our first practice, and in the middle of procuring recruits. Ollie may have been a band-aid decision but I am sure when all is said and done he will be rewarded for a multitude of reasons, most notably his qualifications, which may be worth more than starting pay. It was not the best of situations for Manuel, Ollie or our school.

I tend to think Manuel had a lot of forewarning on this, but that's all speculation.

 

[freescooter]

UConn didn't benefit, eh?
Did you ever once stop to consider that if Ollie were a candidate for the job, when Calhoun was on the hiring committee, no coach of any stature would have thrown his hat in the ring?
In order to conduct a truly national search, Ollie would have had to have been eliminated from the start.

So, how, please tell me, was UConn damaged here?

Not true at all. the only scenario where an open search would have had to exclude Ollie was one in which Calhoun had the final say. Then of course, you are right. But frankly it would have been pretty odd for the incumbent to have been on the hiring committee for his successor anyway. I would have had no problem with a nationwide search with or without Kevin Ollie in the mix.

You are right in one respect though. It isn't possible to know whether Ollie will be a reasonable replacement for Calhoun at this point, so it isn't really possible to say UConn was hurt in that sense. In the sense that the Athletic Director was forced into a choice he didn't want by the outgoing coach, that I think does hurt because it undermines his authority going forward and that will not be good long term.

 

[upstater]

Not true at all. the only scenario where an open search would have had to exclude Ollie was one in which Calhoun had the final say. Then of course, you are right. But frankly it would have been pretty odd for the incumbent to have been on the hiring committee for his successor anyway. I would have had no problem with a nationwide search with or without Kevin Ollie in the mix.

You are right in one respect though. It isn't possible to know whether Ollie will be a reasonable replacement for Calhoun at this point, so it isn't really possible to say UConn was hurt in that sense. In the sense that the Athletic Director was forced into a choice he didn't want by the outgoing coach, that I think does hurt because it undermines his authority going forward and that will not be good long term.

You honestly think Calhoun would not have been on that committee?

A nationwide search with Ollie as a candidate results in rumors of an inside candidate which results in no one of any stature applying because of the public embarrassment of being denied. I've only seen it happen 100 times in other fields.

 

[freescooter]

upstater, you don't hire your basketball coach like you hire the department administrative aid. If you don't get that I don't know what to tell you. This is a combination of people contacting you directly or indirectly, and guys you recruit. It isn't like you put an ad on craigslist "coach wanted. must like dogs." and if you've watched ANY coaching search, guys who think they are not getting the job announce they have decided to stay at the University of Northern South Dakota because they like the weather and are committed to their players.

 

[ctchamps]

I don't think Herbst put pressure on Manuel re the length of the contract. I think she let it be known that she liked JC a lot, and that she liked and in believed in KO, based at least in part on JC's having given her reason to believe that she should. One thing I do agree with Waquit about is that this was absolutely a master stroke by JC. Manuel's nuts are in a vise right now, and will be until and unless KO gives him no other choice but to extend him or fire him. My guess is that it will be somewhere in the middle, and Manuel will face some donors and others whispering in his ear that he should bring in an established name; versus fans, media, alumni and others who believe he should give Kevin more of a chance.

My take as well.

I prefer to debate ideas with you as opposed to the two other guys who shall be not named: the one who was/is strongly anti JC for as long as I can remember and whose agenda is to submarine JC's legacy any way he can, and the other who was a Hathaway lackey and holds a grudge against JC for the purge. Any cohesive argument or idea is very unlikely to change a person's mind who has so much anger or hatred towards something. They are like Ahab.

If I were to take the position of either of these two guys, which I don't, and contend Manuel is a victim in these circumstances, the first thing that would come to my mind is why in heck did he take the job in the first place knowing this scenario had a good chance of happening under his watch. I'm not sure I could support an AD who either lacked the insight to know there would be "troubled waters" ahead, as these two contend currently exists now with the KO hire, or whose primary interest is the dough and/or the name he could make for himself to spring board to another job. Either way this is not an AD we should admire.

The only individual who Manuel can argue took him by surprise is Herbst and not JC. And I'm not even sure this is the case because Herbst made it clear from the get go she was in JC's corner and felt he was poorly treated in the past. This was expressed well before WM's hire and was public information.

I have nothing against Manuel. I feel it was a mistake to not give KO a three or four year contract with an easy buy out after the first and second years. But the claim the hiring of KO should be solely on the head of JC and not look at WM's decision making process in taking the AD job, is one sided imo.

 

[Waquoit]

I prefer to debate ideas with you as opposed to the two other guys who shall be not named: the one who was/is strongly anti JC for as long as I can remember and whose agenda is to submarine JC's legacy any way he can, and the other who was a Hathaway lackey and holds a grudge against JC for the purge. Any cohesive argument or idea is very unlikely to change a person's mind who has so much anger or hatred towards something. They are like Ahab.

I'm calling total BS on this. How can one say he "prefers to debate ideas" than dismiss ideas you disagree with by slandering the poster?