We can not close the deal with recruits | Page 12 | The Boneyard

We can not close the deal with recruits

intlzncster said:
I like bragging rights more than anything. In fact, nothing gives me greater joy than meeting a Syracuse fan and saying 4>1, even if they have no idea what I'm talking about. I know I have nothing personally to do with it, but it's still great.

I take great pleasure in, to borrow a phrase, crushing our enemies, seeing them driven before us, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

I mean, a loss in the Final to me is often a busted season. I'll use it as chips in the bragging rights pot, but it's not much more than that. The season itself is ultimately a disappointment. For example, worse season in Patriots history was 2007. Even more than going 0-16.

Like it or not, programs are ultimately evaluated on their championships. UCLA didn't do dick for how many years? But they are still considered top shelf because of all those Championships in the 70s.

Coffee is for closers.
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You had me at 4>1.
 
UConnNick said:
I'll take a bunch more "boring as hell" or ugly, if you prefer, wins in the national championship game anytime we can get there. This place has gone completely nuts.

Nobody remembers, unless they have an interest in one or both teams, the details of any particular NC game, except when it's a huge upset or there's a buzzer beater, maybe. Other than reporters occasionally making obscure references to it, nobody remembers much of anything about the 2011 NC game if you're not a Butler or UConn fan. Years later all most people remember is who won the games.
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Remember Butler was back the FF for the 2nd year in a row and had to beat some decent teams to get back to the championship game including Pitt (okay decent is debatable), Wisconsin and Florida. Jim Calhoun just shut them down in the second half. Until 6 minutes left they had only only scored 6 points. Yeah the 2011 NC wasn't a summer AAU game with no defense and spectacular up and down play but it was the perfect example of a HOF coach making in game adjustments to shut down the opposing team.
 
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upstater said:
Some of the craziest things ever are being written in this thread.
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Not sure where you fall on the spectrum, but for me, it's simple as:

1) You play to win the game. That implies winning it all for me.

2) Calling the Championship 'just one game' is mind boggling. More accurate to call it 'the only game'.

3) If you finish second, you're just the first loser. There's one winner, and 300+ losers.

4) Like it or not, in the modern world, teams are defined by Championships.
 
CL82 said:
Remember Butler was back the FF for the 2nd year in a row and had to beat some decent teams to get back to the championship game including Pitt (okay decent is debatable), Wisconsin and Florida. Jim Calhoun just shut them down in the second half. Until 6 minutes left they had only only scored 6 points. Yeah the 2011 NC wasn't a summer AAU game with no defense and spectacular up and down play but it was the perfect example of a HOF coach making in game adjustments to shut down the opposing team.
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To be fair butler helped a lot.

Andrew smith was beyond atrocious. He turned multiple uncontested looks into misses, including throwing an open dunk into a ball flying over the backboard.
 
Jim Calhoun would have been the first one to tell you that you can't fairly define a program by its National Championships...until he won one, and then another, and then another...

It was a huge albatross and I remember how heavily it weighed on him; he used to go on about how difficult it is, how much is subject to chance, etc.

I do think times have changed a bit. With most players seeing themselves--realistically or not--as NBA prospects, I think National Championships mean a lot less to more of today's players than overall exposure and putting players in the league.

For fans and most coaches, I think National Championships still mean more though.
 
intlzncster said:
I like bragging rights more than anything. In fact, nothing gives me greater joy than meeting a Syracuse fan and saying 4>1, even if they have no idea what I'm talking about. I know I have nothing personally to do with it, but it's still great.

I take great pleasure in, to borrow a phrase, crushing our enemies, seeing them driven before us, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

I mean, a loss in the Final to me is often a busted season. I'll use it as chips in the bragging rights pot, but it's not much more than that. The season itself is ultimately a disappointment. For example, worse season in Patriots history was 2007. Even more than going 0-16.

Like it or not, programs are ultimately evaluated on their championships. UCLA didn't do dick for how many years? But they are still considered top shelf because of all those Championships in the 70s.

Coffee is for closers.
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Awesome post

I too take pleasure in reminding Cuse fans of the only-thing-that-matters-in-the-debate 4>1 and often times in an elevated voice
 
8893 said:
Jim Calhoun would have been the first one to tell you that you can't fairly define a program by its National Championships...until he won one, and then another, and then another...

It was a huge albatross and I remember how heavily it weighed on him; he used to go on about how difficult it is, how much is subject to chance, etc.

I do think times have changed a bit. With most players seeing themselves--realistically or not--as NBA prospects, I think National Championships mean a lot less to more of today's players than overall exposure and putting players in the league.

For fans and most coaches, I think National Championships still mean more though.
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Put it simply, you can never be great without Championships.
 
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You can't win championships unless you are in the tourney. What lots of us miss is being relevant and having a shot at winning it all. People bring up the loss to #1 seed Kansas as a reason for our early exit in 2016. We underacheived badly during that regular season, leading to a lower seed and 2nd round matchup with Kansas. A better seed may have gotten the team rolling and we would have had a puncher's chance.
 
Huskybass said:
You can't win championships unless you are in the tourney. What lots of us miss is being relevant and having a shot at winning it all. People bring up the loss to #1 seed Kansas as a reason for our early exit in 2016. We underacheived badly during that regular season, leading to a lower seed and 2nd round matchup with Kansas. A better seed may have gotten the team rolling and we would have had a puncher's chance.
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Yeah everyone's missing the relevant part, you're right! :rolleyes:
 
UCDaveD said:
is someone really arguing that they'd rather NOT win national championships as long as we make a few more Sweet 16's? What the hell?
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Not only someone, but multiple people for multiple pages of responses.

Can you imagine.
 
UCDaveD said:
is someone really arguing that they'd rather NOT win national championships as long as we make a few more Sweet 16's? What the hell?
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You want both. If you can get both, all the better. If you can't, take the title and run. Because the high is better. But know that your low will be lower. Reality is kinder to the programs that have more consistency. Fans are kinder. Recruits are kinder. The future is kinder. And while NC State might still be basking in the glory of Skywalker and Jimmy V, they are being passed by more consistently good schools who have more shots at making more history.
 
upstater said:
You were really bored during the 2011 championship game?
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A bit. I thought it was over so early that it felt anti-climactic. Butler simply never found a way to score. Don't get me wrong, the defensive performance by UConn, and even by Butler, was incredible. But basketball with those kinds of shooting percentages makes for an ugly game. The Arizona game was the most enjoyable of that tournament.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
A bit. I thought it was over so early that it felt anti-climactic. Butler simply never found a way to score. Don't get me wrong, the defensive performance by UConn, and even by Butler, was incredible. But basketball with those kinds of shooting percentages makes for an ugly game. The Arizona game was the most enjoyable of that tournament.
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Are you a basketball fan or a UConn fan?

You are speaking as a Basketball fan. Not a UConn fan.

The Arizona game was the 6th circle of hell in which every sin of my life flashed before my eyes as the last possession played out and I was entirely sure Arizona won the game on last second offensive rebound>kickout three to spite me for my sins. Im still amazed that shot didnt drop.

Not enjoyable. At all.

Only enjoyable in retrospect and replay knowing we won.

You probably call the 6 OT cuse game enjoyable too. Youre nuts.
 
intlzncster said:
Not sure where you fall on the spectrum, but for me, it's simple as:

1) You play to win the game. That implies winning it all for me.

2) Calling the Championship 'just one game' is mind boggling. More accurate to call it 'the only game'.

3) If you finish second, you're just the first loser. There's one winner, and 300+ losers.

4) Like it or not, in the modern world, teams are defined by Championships.
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I don't disagree with any of this.

But you have to acknowledge that recruits care an awful lot less about past championships than they do about the current buzz/hype around a program and the coach's credibility in being able to get guys to the League. Currently, KO and our program have zero of that.
 
HuskyHawk said:
A bit. I thought it was over so early that it felt anti-climactic. Butler simply never found a way to score. Don't get me wrong, the defensive performance by UConn, and even by Butler, was incredible. But basketball with those kinds of shooting percentages makes for an ugly game. The Arizona game was the most enjoyable of that tournament.
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I was there for the game and it didn't feel anti-climactic to me. And after the semi vs. UK, I didn't mind at all that the final was less dramatic.

Hell, in 2004 (which I also attended) the final vs. Ga. Tech felt inevitable from the opening tip imo, but, again, it was a very, very welcome reprieve from the semi vs. Duke, when I was certain I was having a cardiac event. Seriously.
 
intlzncster said:
Not sure where you fall on the spectrum, but for me, it's simple as:

1) You play to win the game. That implies winning it all for me.

2) Calling the Championship 'just one game' is mind boggling. More accurate to call it 'the only game'.

3) If you finish second, you're just the first loser. There's one winner, and 300+ losers.

4) Like it or not, in the modern world, teams are defined by Championships.
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That's fine. I just view it differently. I'm sure some others do as well.

1. You play to win. That implies not losing. So winning percentage is to they measure of greatness. How infrequently you lose matters a great deal. Great programs don't lose many games.

2. The championship is one game. I value it more than any other game, but not to an absurd degree. All the tournament games you play are almost as important, since it is a win or go home event.

3. If you finish second you had a great year. Your fans saw many wins. They saw at least five wins in the tournament, including one in the final four. A single loss in a championship is much less painful to me than missing the tournament is.

4. Disagree teams are defined by championships. The Yankees of recent years (before this one)? Completely irrelevant lousy teams. It doesn't matter how many WS titles you have unless you are contending for one this year. The teams that contend year in and year out are the ones we admire.
 
8893 said:
I was there for the game and it didn't feel anti-climactic to me. And after the semi vs. UK, I didn't mind at all that the final was less dramatic.

Hell, in 2004 (which I also attended) the final vs. Ga. Tech felt inevitable from the opening tip imo, but, again, it was a very, very welcome reprieve from the semi vs. Duke, when I was certain I was having a cardiac event. Seriously.
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I'm a bit with you on 2004. GT didn't even belong in that game and was overmatched from the tip. In that one we could watch some beautiful basketball though. Loved that team. But again, that semi vs Duke was the more enjoyable and memorable game, was it not? That was the real final. Honestly, aside from the 99 title game against Duke, it was the best tournament game we've been in.
 
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August_West said:
Are you a basketball fan or a UConn fan?

You are speaking as a Basketball fan. Not a UConn fan.

The Arizona game was the 6th circle of hell in which every sin of my life flashed before my eyes as the last possession played out and I was entirely sure Arizona won the game on last second offensive rebound>kickout three to spite me for my sins. Im still amazed that shot didnt drop.

Not enjoyable. At all.

Only enjoyable in retrospect and replay knowing we won.

You probably call the 6 OT cuse game enjoyable too. Youre nuts.
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In the end, all we do is make memories. If I only cared about whether we won or lost, I could look that up online or in the paper. I am a fan of memorable UConn basketball experiences. Sometimes even a loss is a memorable experience. Yes, the 6 OT game counts. And the loss to Duke in the elite 8 in 1990. That one nearly killed me.

The greatest element of "the shot" for me isn't that we pulled off the miracle, it's that we did it after blowing the game completely. After turning a sure win into a situation where a miracle was needed. If we just cruised to victory as we should have, as we were at halftime, nobody would remember the game.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
I don't disagree with any of this.

But you have to acknowledge that recruits care an awful lot less about past championships than they do about the current buzz/hype around a program and the coach's credibility in being able to get guys to the League. Currently, KO and our program have zero of that.
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That's definitely true. But that's not what's been discussed.
 
Huskybass said:
You can't win championships unless you are in the tourney. What lots of us miss is being relevant and having a shot at winning it all. People bring up the loss to #1 seed Kansas as a reason for our early exit in 2016. We underacheived badly during that regular season, leading to a lower seed and 2nd round matchup with Kansas. A better seed may have gotten the team rolling and we would have had a puncher's chance.
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Meh, if you're good enough you win. Yeah, in a vacuum a higher seed is better, but it's more about matchups.

We won it as a 7 seed for crying out loud.
 
The Funster said:
I'm seeing a lot of people talk past each other. This thread would probably fit right into the cesspool.
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Well, there's a number of people who prefer 'also rans'. I prefer the Derby winner.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
But you have to acknowledge that recruits care an awful lot less about past championships than they do about the current buzz/hype around a program and the coach's credibility in being able to get guys to the League. Currently, KO and our program have zero of that.
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Without question. It's not even about current winning either. It's about having a HOF coach, a coach who's willing to be an NBA way station--and promoting that as most important, and ESPN pumping the crap out of your program.

The current 'most successful' college program, in terms of winning year in year out, is UK. Duke has since jumped on that bandwagon a bit--though it's a different situation. Calipari succeeds by focusing on NOT being a college program, but a conduit to the League. I wouldn't be super psyched to be UK. Yes winning would be nice, but brand new kids every year would hard to get invested in. Plus the coach is scummy.

Honestly, you don't even need a guy who can coach (and I think Calipari can). You need a circus promoter. Lavar Ball might be a great college coach lol
 
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