We can not close the deal with recruits

[upstater]

But UCLA is still considered a notch down from UNC/UK. And basically in the same zone as Duke or Kansas. Mostly because titles don't mean everything. Titles make the headlines, but consistent deep runs sell the tickets and keep the gravy train rolling.

UK and NC have 7 or 8 championships apiece. And both have won recently.

UCLA hasn't won in 20+ years. They won a string of them in the 1970s. That was 40-odd years ago.

This has EVERYTHING to do with the relative standing of these 2 programs compared to UCLA, not their deep runs.

But their MANY national championships AND their RECENT national championships and overall success.

 

[JeepCSC]

Kansas has won 1 title in the last 29 years. Kentucky has won 1 title in the last 19 years. They are both given credit today where UCLA isn't not because they are title-winning machines, but because they make deep runs consistently as top seeds. Titles can come from that obviously, but more importantly for the health of the program is the media attention that comes from being the top story from November through March. April is when the title is won, but the 5 months before is when the narrative is set. Until UCLA starts repeating 2006-2008 on a consistent basis, they will be looking up at others. Even 11 titles magnificently won only gets you so far.

 

[UConnNick]

Boring as hell?

That was a clinic in great D for UConn.

And oh by the way, UConn shot well in the second half. It had its second unit on the floor in the 2nd part of the 2nd half when things went wonky.

I was not bored at all.

"It's not even close for me."

Wow.

I'll take a bunch more "boring as hell" or ugly, if you prefer, wins in the national championship game anytime we can get there. This place has gone completely nuts.

Nobody remembers, unless they have an interest in one or both teams, the details of any particular NC game, except when it's a huge upset or there's a buzzer beater, maybe. Other than reporters occasionally making obscure references to it, nobody remembers much of anything about the 2011 NC game if you're not a Butler or UConn fan. Years later all most people remember is who won the games.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Kansas has won 1 title in the last 29 years. Kentucky has won 1 title in the last 19 years. They are both given credit today where UCLA isn't not because they are title-winning machines, but because they make deep runs consistently as top seeds. Titles can come from that obviously, but more importantly for the health of the program is the media attention that comes from being the top story from November through March. April is when the title is won, but the 5 months before is when the narrative is set. Until UCLA starts repeating 2006-2008 on a consistent basis, they will be looking up at others. Even 11 titles magnificently won only gets you so far.

This is the reality. Being there, in the hunt, with deep runs year after year. That's the hardest thing to do. In the last 30 years, Kentucky has won 3, and Kansas 2.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I like bragging rights more than anything. In fact, nothing gives me greater joy than meeting a Syracuse fan and saying 4>1, even if they have no idea what I'm talking about. I know I have nothing personally to do with it, but it's still great.

I take great pleasure in, to borrow a phrase, crushing our enemies, seeing them driven before us, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

I mean, a loss in the Final to me is often a busted season. I'll use it as chips in the bragging rights pot, but it's not much more than that. The season itself is ultimately a disappointment. For example, worse season in Patriots history was 2007. Even more than going 0-16.

Like it or not, programs are ultimately evaluated on their championships. UCLA didn't do dick for how many years? But they are still considered top shelf because of all those Championships in the 70s.

Coffee is for closers.

I don't really care about bragging rights. I enjoy the season, the anticipation, the ups and downs and exciting moments. About a week after a national championship win it is completely forgotten, and I'm on to next year. The first one, that was special. That lasted. But we are four time champs now, so I'm much more concerned with seeing our name in that Top 25 all year every year. That means much more for bragging rights anyway. Are you good right now? That's all that matters. Schools like Alabama in Football Kentucky in basketball are the top of the heap because they have the past championships and they always remain good. A crappy team who won a title last year is a crappy team.

 

[CL82]

I like bragging rights more than anything. In fact, nothing gives me greater joy than meeting a Syracuse fan and saying 4>1, even if they have no idea what I'm talking about. I know I have nothing personally to do with it, but it's still great.

I take great pleasure in, to borrow a phrase, crushing our enemies, seeing them driven before us, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

I mean, a loss in the Final to me is often a busted season. I'll use it as chips in the bragging rights pot, but it's not much more than that. The season itself is ultimately a disappointment. For example, worse season in Patriots history was 2007. Even more than going 0-16.

Like it or not, programs are ultimately evaluated on their championships. UCLA didn't do dick for how many years? But they are still considered top shelf because of all those Championships in the 70s.

Coffee is for closers.

You had me at 4>1.

 

[August_West]

You had me at 4>1.

Its 4>1*

(* should be vacated due to cheating)

 

[upstater]

Some of the craziest things ever are being written in this thread.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Some of the craziest things ever are being written in this thread.

 

[CL82]

I'll take a bunch more "boring as hell" or ugly, if you prefer, wins in the national championship game anytime we can get there. This place has gone completely nuts.

Nobody remembers, unless they have an interest in one or both teams, the details of any particular NC game, except when it's a huge upset or there's a buzzer beater, maybe. Other than reporters occasionally making obscure references to it, nobody remembers much of anything about the 2011 NC game if you're not a Butler or UConn fan. Years later all most people remember is who won the games.

Remember Butler was back the FF for the 2nd year in a row and had to beat some decent teams to get back to the championship game including Pitt (okay decent is debatable), Wisconsin and Florida. Jim Calhoun just shut them down in the second half. Until 6 minutes left they had only only scored 6 points. Yeah the 2011 NC wasn't a summer AAU game with no defense and spectacular up and down play but it was the perfect example of a HOF coach making in game adjustments to shut down the opposing team.

 

[upstater]

You were really bored during the 2011 championship game?

 

[intlzncster]

Some of the craziest things ever are being written in this thread.

Not sure where you fall on the spectrum, but for me, it's simple as:

1) You play to win the game. That implies winning it all for me.

2) Calling the Championship 'just one game' is mind boggling. More accurate to call it 'the only game'.

3) If you finish second, you're just the first loser. There's one winner, and 300+ losers.

4) Like it or not, in the modern world, teams are defined by Championships.

 

[the Q]

Remember Butler was back the FF for the 2nd year in a row and had to beat some decent teams to get back to the championship game including Pitt (okay decent is debatable), Wisconsin and Florida. Jim Calhoun just shut them down in the second half. Until 6 minutes left they had only only scored 6 points. Yeah the 2011 NC wasn't a summer AAU game with no defense and spectacular up and down play but it was the perfect example of a HOF coach making in game adjustments to shut down the opposing team.

To be fair butler helped a lot.

Andrew smith was beyond atrocious. He turned multiple uncontested looks into misses, including throwing an open dunk into a ball flying over the backboard.

 

[Mr. French]

Listen, there's certainly something to say about being consistently good to great ... But the way some people are waxing poetic while trying to invalidate championships is off the wall and also disingenuous.

 

[8893]

Jim Calhoun would have been the first one to tell you that you can't fairly define a program by its National Championships...until he won one, and then another, and then another...

It was a huge albatross and I remember how heavily it weighed on him; he used to go on about how difficult it is, how much is subject to chance, etc.

I do think times have changed a bit. With most players seeing themselves--realistically or not--as NBA prospects, I think National Championships mean a lot less to more of today's players than overall exposure and putting players in the league.

For fans and most coaches, I think National Championships still mean more though.

 

[MSGSeven]

I like bragging rights more than anything. In fact, nothing gives me greater joy than meeting a Syracuse fan and saying 4>1, even if they have no idea what I'm talking about. I know I have nothing personally to do with it, but it's still great.

I take great pleasure in, to borrow a phrase, crushing our enemies, seeing them driven before us, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

I mean, a loss in the Final to me is often a busted season. I'll use it as chips in the bragging rights pot, but it's not much more than that. The season itself is ultimately a disappointment. For example, worse season in Patriots history was 2007. Even more than going 0-16.

Like it or not, programs are ultimately evaluated on their championships. UCLA didn't do dick for how many years? But they are still considered top shelf because of all those Championships in the 70s.

Coffee is for closers.

Awesome post

I too take pleasure in reminding Cuse fans of the only-thing-that-matters-in-the-debate 4>1 and often times in an elevated voice

 

[intlzncster]

Jim Calhoun would have been the first one to tell you that you can't fairly define a program by its National Championships...until he won one, and then another, and then another...

It was a huge albatross and I remember how heavily it weighed on him; he used to go on about how difficult it is, how much is subject to chance, etc.

I do think times have changed a bit. With most players seeing themselves--realistically or not--as NBA prospects, I think National Championships mean a lot less to more of today's players than overall exposure and putting players in the league.

For fans and most coaches, I think National Championships still mean more though.

Put it simply, you can never be great without Championships.

 

[Huskybass]

You can't win championships unless you are in the tourney. What lots of us miss is being relevant and having a shot at winning it all. People bring up the loss to #1 seed Kansas as a reason for our early exit in 2016. We underacheived badly during that regular season, leading to a lower seed and 2nd round matchup with Kansas. A better seed may have gotten the team rolling and we would have had a puncher's chance.

 

[mauconnfan]

You can't win championships unless you are in the tourney. What lots of us miss is being relevant and having a shot at winning it all. People bring up the loss to #1 seed Kansas as a reason for our early exit in 2016. We underacheived badly during that regular season, leading to a lower seed and 2nd round matchup with Kansas. A better seed may have gotten the team rolling and we would have had a puncher's chance.

Yeah everyone's missing the relevant part, you're right!

 

[UCDaveD]

is someone really arguing that they'd rather NOT win national championships as long as we make a few more Sweet 16's? What the hell?

 

[Mr. French]

is someone really arguing that they'd rather NOT win national championships as long as we make a few more Sweet 16's? What the hell?

Not only someone, but multiple people for multiple pages of responses.

Can you imagine.

 

[JeepCSC]

is someone really arguing that they'd rather NOT win national championships as long as we make a few more Sweet 16's? What the hell?

You want both. If you can get both, all the better. If you can't, take the title and run. Because the high is better. But know that your low will be lower. Reality is kinder to the programs that have more consistency. Fans are kinder. Recruits are kinder. The future is kinder. And while NC State might still be basking in the glory of Skywalker and Jimmy V, they are being passed by more consistently good schools who have more shots at making more history.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You were really bored during the 2011 championship game?

A bit. I thought it was over so early that it felt anti-climactic. Butler simply never found a way to score. Don't get me wrong, the defensive performance by UConn, and even by Butler, was incredible. But basketball with those kinds of shooting percentages makes for an ugly game. The Arizona game was the most enjoyable of that tournament.

 

[UConnNick]

You were really bored during the 2011 championship game?

We were at the game and I almost fell asleep several times.

 

[August_West]

A bit. I thought it was over so early that it felt anti-climactic. Butler simply never found a way to score. Don't get me wrong, the defensive performance by UConn, and even by Butler, was incredible. But basketball with those kinds of shooting percentages makes for an ugly game. The Arizona game was the most enjoyable of that tournament.

Are you a basketball fan or a UConn fan?

You are speaking as a Basketball fan. Not a UConn fan.

The Arizona game was the 6th circle of hell in which every sin of my life flashed before my eyes as the last possession played out and I was entirely sure Arizona won the game on last second offensive rebound>kickout three to spite me for my sins. Im still amazed that shot didnt drop.

Not enjoyable. At all.

Only enjoyable in retrospect and replay knowing we won.

You probably call the 6 OT cuse game enjoyable too. Youre nuts.