Walking Dead Season 4

[meyers7]

Those are lots of good storylines, but I'm curious how you get deep and layered out of this show. Aren't almost all of those essentially the same story?

No, there all pretty different.

 

[meyers7]

Um, why wasn't this the episode for the end of last season!?!?! Holy cow.

New showrunner. One who was a big fan of the comics.

I enjoyed this episode, but this has no longer become a must watch as it airs program.

Well it still pulls in almost double what Breaking Bad did. In fact Talking Dead pulls in about what Breaking bad did. But sure lots and lots of shows now are watched on DVR, Netflix, Hulu, etc. So besides sports (which I even DVR and watch later) most shows are not "must watch as it airs" anymore.

 

[G0UCONN]

I think Season 4 episode 8 of Walking Dead will go down as one of the best episodes ever of a great series....that show was excellent from start to finish.

Will miss Hershel. The old coot grew on me...

 

[Joobie]

I think Season 4 episode 8 of Walking Dead will go down as one of the best episodes ever of a great series....that show was excellent from start to finish.

Will miss Hershel. The old coot grew on me...

Me too! He showed so much care & compassion, especially during the flu epidemic in the prison. He certainly did do a 180 from the days on the farm. Will miss him LOTS...not as much as Rick will, tho.

 

[G0UCONN]

Me too! He showed so much care & compassion, especially during the flu epidemic in the prison. He certainly did do a 180 from the days on the farm. Will miss him LOTS...not as much as Rick will, tho.

Agreed about the farm. Thought he was just another nut job then.

Turned out to be great guy/character.

Glad they are out of the prison....that was getting stale.

 

[Deepster]

I think Season 4 episode 8 of Walking Dead will go down as one of the best episodes ever of a great series....that show was excellent from start to finish.

Will miss Hershel. The old coot grew on me...

I'm glad to see The Gov dead, just as much as I'm sad to see Hershel go. I hated his whole story line from the start to the 30 seconds before Michonne shishkebabed him.

 

[meyers7]

I'm glad to see The Gov dead, just as much as I'm sad to see Hershel go.

Then I'd say the writers did a good job with the story line. I imagine that was their objective.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Then I'd say the writers did a good job with the story line. I imagine that was their objective.

Sure they wanted people to hate him & everyone did, but for a lot of us it was because he was poorly developed. The Governor's evil Arc opened via his amazing military takedown, yet his end was cuz he showed up at the prison with superior firepower but no tactical plan and got outgunned by civilians?!

He was supposedly obsessed with protecting his old or new family and yet obviously more of a megalomaniac and allowed this to jeopardize all under his watch. It was always too obvious to the audience that the Governor was a psycho not worth following.

 

[Deepster]

Then I'd say the writers did a good job with the story line. I imagine that was their objective.

Let me clarify that one. I am not glad The Gov is dead because he was such a horrible tyrant....I thought he was a horrible actor and his performances were cringeworthy in most of his scenes. Good riddance.

 

[meyers7]

Sure they wanted people to hate him & everyone did, but for a lot of us it was because he was poorly developed.

I'll disagree. They gave him much more complexity than the comic did.

The Governor's evil Arc opened via his amazing military takedown,

Not sure what you are talking about???? What amazing military takedown???

yet his end was cuz he showed up at the prison with superior firepower but no tactical plan and got outgunned by civilians?!

Agreed his tactical plan was quite flawed. But he only had civilians (and a tank) and not very battle worthy ones at that vs much more battle worthy civilians in the prison.

He was supposedly obsessed with protecting his old or new family and yet obviously more of a megalomaniac and allowed this to jeopardize all under his watch.

Yes the complexity of his character. The Jeckle and Hyde.

It was always too obvious to the audience that the Governor was a psycho not worth following.

They sure followed him.

 

[meyers7]

Let me clarify that one. I am not glad The Gov is dead because he was such a horrible tyrant....I thought he was a horrible actor and his performances were cringeworthy in most of his scenes. Good riddance.

Well you won't get much agreement with Morrissey being a poor actor. Most things I have read have complemented him on his acting. He's a pretty good actor.

I am glad for them to finish up with the Gov though and move on.

 

[Deepster]

Well you won't get much agreement with Morrissey being a poor actor. Most things I have read have complemented him on his acting. He's a pretty good actor.

I am glad for them to finish up with the Gov though and move on.

I don't think I need any agreement. Having an opinion of someone's acting is a subjective thing.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I'll disagree. They gave him much more complexity than the comic did.
We've been here before, don't care about the comic, it should stand on its own.

Not sure what you are talking about???? What amazing military takedown???
I think it was the very first Governor episode where the military leader was at Woodbury, gave his team's position and then the Governor boldly took them out with snipers.


Yes the complexity of his character. The Jeckle and Hyde.

He was all Mr. Hyde. The big complexity miss was that they should have staged a flashback where The Governor showed someone mercy and as a result lost his first/real daughter. Adding that backstory, however simple would have justified so many of the Governor's inexplicable actions.

SCENE
Governor negotiating with Rick lookalike
Rickalike: Let us into Woodbury please, we are desperate
Governor: OK
Next day downtown Woodbury
Rickalike grabs Governor's daughter and demands he cede control
Governor: We can talk, just let her go
Rickalike: Kills daughter
Governor: Becomes Hyde
SCENE.

 

[meyers7]

He was all Mr. Hyde.

umm no he wasn't. He was very kind to Andrea. He protected Milton for a long time. He helped out and protected Lily, Meghan and Tara. Granted he was kinda covering his Hyde, but there was a bit of Jekyll there. And yes Hyde did win out in the end.

The big complexity miss was that they should have staged a flashback where The Governor showed someone mercy and as a result lost his first/real daughter. Adding that backstory, however simple would have justified so many of the Governor's inexplicable actions.

SCENE
Governor negotiating with Rick lookalike
Rickalike: Let us into Woodbury please, we are desperate
Governor: OK
Next day downtown Woodbury
Rickalike grabs Governor's daughter and demands he cede control
Governor: We can talk, just let her go
Rickalike: Kills daughter
Governor: Becomes Hyde
SCENE.

Well a backflash might have been nice. It wouldn't have been like that though.

We've been here before, don't care about the comic, it should stand on its own.

Well the series is based on the comic, so...... Pretty much like every other movie, show, etc that is based on some source material, it's gonna be fairly similar.
Actually the show stands on it's own, much, much more than other shows.

I think it was the very first Governor episode where the military leader was at Woodbury, gave his team's position and then the Governor boldly took them out with snipers.

Ahhhh. Ok. Just never considered it an amazing military takedown. He just walked up and shot them up. Similar to what he tried at the prison.

 

[Dogdeacon]

umm no he wasn't. He was very kind to Andrea. He protected Milton for a long time. He helped out and protected Lily, Meghan and Tara. Granted he was kinda covering his Hyde, but there was a bit of Jekyll there. And yes Hyde did win out in the end.
That was show error though cuz viewers always knew he was psycho via flash fwds this season and head aquarium/daughter last season. They made everyone disbelieve & frustrated by Andrea & Lily's gullibility.
Ahhhh. Ok. Just never considered it an amazing military takedown. He just walked up and shot them up. Similar to what he tried at the prison.

No, he brazenly walked up but Merle and others had set up as snipers in the surrounding area. Hmm, might have worked at the prison.

 

[meyers7]

That was show error though cuz viewers always knew he was psycho via flash fwds this season and head aquarium/daughter last season. They made everyone disbelieve & frustrated by Andrea & Lily's gullibility.

I certainly wouldn't call that story error. That was kind of the point. People were supposed to know his Hyde (after they showed it) and the fact that he put on a Jekyll for people. Particularly Andrea and Lily. Although this season he was actually trying to regain his pre apocalypse Jekyll (or at least what he thought he was like), but he was unable to fight off the Hyde part.

I can see some of the people's frustration with Andrea, I agree the writers/show runner pushed that a bit too far. However I thought Lily's journey was very well done. This guy came in and saved her family. But when he started seeming weird, she started questioning him. And finally/much quicker than Andrea, turned on him. Very well done.

It's a bit more complex than what I think a lot of people have the ability to fathom. It's supposed to make one think and view things from different perspectives.

No, he brazenly walked up but Merle and others had set up as snipers in the surrounding area. Hmm, might have worked at the prison.

ummm no. He surprise attacked the Prison the first time. Second time they new he was coming (not really gonna surprise them there). Third time, he wasn't necessarily planning on an attack. Figured with prisoners and fire power (tank) he could negotiate the prison. He overestimated his position, and underestimated Rick's gang, which he tended to do.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I certainly wouldn't call that story error. That was kind of the point. People were supposed to know his Hyde (after they showed it) and the fact that he put on a Jekyll for people. Particularly Andrea and Lily. Although this season he was actually trying to regain his pre apocalypse Jekyll (or at least what he thought he was like), but he was unable to fight off the Hyde part.
Martinez is another one who'd seen his treachery and no way he trusts him. Equally the tank operator who allowed him to kill HIS BROTHER and (although he initially had no choice when the Governor came calling) afterwards he blindly followed the Governor. WHY MAKE THOSE GUYS BROTHERS?! Story error.
I can see some of the people's frustration with Andrea, I agree the writers/show runner pushed that a bit too far. However I thought Lily's journey was very well done. This guy came in and saved her family. But when he started seeming weird, she started questioning him. And finally/much quicker than Andrea, turned on him. Very well done.
AGREE, she is the only person in history of Governor interaction to get it. That's part of why ending was satisfying. But don't get me started on her parenting skills or how she got to the prison so quickly
ummm no. He surprise attacked the Prison the first time. Second time they new he was coming (not really gonna surprise them there). Third time, he wasn't necessarily planning on an attack. Figured with prisoners and fire power (tank) he could negotiate the prison. He overestimated his position, and underestimated Rick's gang, which he tended to do.

Disagree strongly, he didn't overestimate his position THEY had to stage a battle because the previous season ender battle was a nothing. Gov whipped his new charges into a frenzy to fight so he knew it was likely and it was just dumba$$ that he had no battle plan for that fight. But I forgive you and them because it allowed Daryll to do some bada$$ .

 

[meyers7]

Martinez is another one who'd seen his treachery and no way he trusts him. Equally the tank operator who allowed him to kill HIS BROTHER and (although he initially had no choice when the Governor came calling) afterwards he blindly followed the Governor. WHY MAKE THOSE GUYS BROTHERS?! Story error

Well Martinez worked with the Gov. so they were on the same page, similar types. And as he said he wouldn't have let him in without the kid. So I don't know that he did trust him. As you notice he kept him pretty close. But in the end too close. He also knew him from his pre Michonne putting down Penny side. So he knew some of the Jekyl part of the Gov. And as we saw he was reluctant, but did start to see that side of him again (or thought he saw it). He was probably a little too hopeful.

The "brother" aspect was not a story error, it was a perfect compliment to the story. Making them brothers is how it worked. If they hadn't been brothers it wouldn't have worked. You're completely backwards on that one. The brother aspect might have gone over your head though.

Disagree strongly, he didn't overestimate his position THEY had to stage a battle because the previous season ender battle was a nothing. Gov whipped his new charges into a frenzy to fight so he knew it was likely and it was just dumba$$ that he had no battle plan for that fight. But I forgive you and them because it allowed Daryll to do some bada$$ .

Well completely disagree with you here. Completely. (except Daryl being a bada$$).

 

[Dogdeacon]

I'll ignore your insult. Do you have any siblings? Is there any scenario where someone kills a family member of yours and you don't strike back? Ever see the movie "In The Bedroom"? That's where I stand.
If they were simply close comrades with different styles and opinions the same mercy/humanity vs survivalist dilemma applies. And the Governor could have killed 'New Moralist Leader' with Tank Guy agreeing in principal while upset about losing a friend but being psyched to now go and yield his tank blow up powers. I don't know but I'd guess they were brothers in the comics, this made things more dramatic there and got stuck in without time to play out here. Please explain how & why the brother thing worked.

How did the Governor not have a plan and expect them to back down?! And if he truly expected them to back down why did he slice off Herschel's head and yell kill them all?! I will tell you why, I've heard both were in the comics. They changed the story here and it didn't fit as well with certain comic scenes that somehow are made mandatory. The Governor planned to kill them all whether at the prison or after chasing them away (hence his speech to be prepared- he knew he had to have his people prepared to fight, not too much of a leap to say maybe a battle plan is next step). Pretty obvious that Rick and Daryl (and Michonne) are the key guys so just like his Army unit takedown all he needed to do was position a sniper to take those two out first either at the attack or in the same way he grabbed Michonne. I understand 100% this is over-analyzing and we simply needed a battle and a Rick-Governor mano-a-mano, but just can't believe someone thinks it was completely logical.

In The Bedroom
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247425/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_35[/quote]

 

[meyers7]

I'll ignore your insult.

You don't have to.

Do you have any siblings?

Yes, two brothers. Doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing though.

Is there any scenario where someone kills a family member of yours and you don't strike back?

Sure, plenty of them. But again, this has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

Ever see the movie "In The Bedroom"? That's where I stand.

Nope. Probably won't either after reading a little about it. But again, it really doesn't have anything to do with what we were discussing. Ever see the movie "The Other"? In a way, more relevant.

If they were simply close comrades with different styles and opinions the same mercy/humanity vs survivalist dilemma applies. And the Governor could have killed 'New Moralist Leader' with Tank Guy agreeing in principal while upset about losing a friend but being psyched to now go and yield his tank blow up powers. I don't know but I'd guess they were brothers in the comics, this made things more dramatic there and got stuck in without time to play out here. Please explain how & why the brother thing worked.

Ok, but realize here you are admitting it did go over your head. This was about good seed/bad seed. Two sets of brothers. Both sets with a good seed/bad seed. Philip/Brian (Gov) and Pete/Mitch. Gov knew Mitch was basically the Gov, just not as developed. Willing to do what needed to be done to survive. Do you doubt the Gov would kill his own brother if would mean his survival? (answer is yes he would - besides 2 Lts, he'd already killed his best friend and his lover). Remember his story about his brother. Don't be a hero. Hero's get themselves and others hurt. Survive. Now Mitch probably wasn't at a point where he could kill his brother (he would probably have eventually gotten there). But he was at a point where he could understand. May not like it (who would) but he could understand. Yes, the brother thing is the only way this would have worked.

How did the Governor not have a plan and expect them to back down?! And if he truly expected them to back down why did he slice off Herschel's head and yell kill them all?! I will tell you why, I've heard both were in the comics. They changed the story here and it didn't fit as well with certain comic scenes that somehow are made mandatory. The Governor planned to kill them all whether at the prison or after chasing them away (hence his speech to be prepared- he knew he had to have his people prepared to fight, not too much of a leap to say maybe a battle plan is next step). Pretty obvious that Rick and Daryl (and Michonne) are the key guys so just like his Army unit takedown all he needed to do was position a sniper to take those two out first either at the attack or in the same way he grabbed Michonne. I understand 100% this is over-analyzing and we simply needed a battle and a Rick-Governor mano-a-mano, but just can't believe someone thinks it was completely logical.

Well now you are changing your story. Did he have a plan?, did he have a battle plan? Two separate things. First his plan was to get the prison without a fight. He had the upper hand (so he thought) in negotiations. Prisoners and a tank. Again he over estimated that, and underestimated Rick and Rick's gang. So yea he had a plan.

Did he have a back up plan if that failed. Eh, that's debatable. He probably had a plan, use the tank and kill them all or at least chase them off. If they don't want to play....oh well. Granted it wasn't a very good plan. But then you are the only one who seems to think he was a great battle tactician. I think Rick was much better. So sure he had a back up plan. Probably hoped he wouldn't have to use it. When it came down to it and he did have to fight, he pretty much accepted "I'm a psychopath, I ain't changing, F$%& it, kill them all." It was a "snap" moment for him. At that point, battle plan....whatever... kill them all.

Was there always going to be a battle? Sure, but from the viewers point of view, not necessarily from the characters point of view. Did the Gov and Rick need to fight. Pretty much to satisfy the viewers. In the comic the final prison battle took place after Rick and the Gov had fought. (Rick lost his hand in that fight, Gov feed it to Penny - we didn't get THAT on TV ).

Just because something doesn't play out exactly like you think it should, doesn't necessarily make it illogical. There were plenty of ways this could have gone. It went this way.

Be happy, the Gov is dead and Rick's gang is back on the road. That's a good thing.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Ok, but realize here you are admitting it did go over your head. This was about good seed/bad seed. Two sets of brothers. Both sets with a good seed/bad seed. Philip/Brian (Gov) and Pete/Mitch. Gov knew Mitch was basically the Gov, just not as developed. Willing to do what needed to be done to survive. Do you doubt the Gov would kill his own brother if would mean his survival? (answer is yes he would - besides 2 Lts, he'd already killed his best friend and his lover). Remember his story about his brother. Don't be a hero. Hero's get themselves and others hurt. Survive. Now Mitch probably wasn't at a point where he could kill his brother (he would probably have eventually gotten there). But he was at a point where he could understand. May not like it (who would) but he could understand. Yes, the brother thing is the only way this would have worked.

Be happy, the Gov is dead and Rick's gang is back on the road. That's a good thing.

Definitely happy with outcome & said before I enjoyed the episode & largely ignored flaws.

Have you mixed what you've read in comics into your viewing experience? Other than his one show comment wanting to take supplies (consequences or lives be damned) from the camping group there was nothing else that made Tank driver Mitch a bad seed/Governor in training. And of course just like the Governor, even if Mitch is a bad seed then isn't the freakin' predatory guy that just killed your brother a threat worth eliminating? Its silly, I should and will stop.

 

[meyers7]

Have you mixed what you've read in comics into your viewing experience? Other than his one show comment wanting to take supplies (consequences or lives be damned) from the camping group there was nothing else that made Tank driver Mitch a bad seed/Governor in training. And of course just like the Governor, even if Mitch is a bad seed then isn't the freakin' predatory guy that just killed your brother a threat worth eliminating? Its silly, I should and will stop.

I haven't actually read any of the comics (not really a comic reader, or fiction reader of any kind). There are plenty of sites though (forums, etc.) that give you the background stuff from the comics. It's interesting to me to see how they deviate from, include and change up things from the source.

Well him wanting to take the supplies and then you could tell the Governor thought that. (with his talk with Mitch). But would have Mitch taken the Gov out? Maybe eventually, if he thought he could do a better job keeping him safe. Or the Gov showed weakness. But I don't think Mitch had traveled as far along the psychopath, em path, yet as the the Gov had. Also Mitch really didn't have the charisma the Gov had to get people to follow him. Maybe he could have learned it. Seemed Martinez did somewhat. So at the moment anyway, Mitch realized his best chance of survival was being #2 to the Gov.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I haven't actually read any of the comics (not really a comic reader, or fiction reader of any kind). There are plenty of sites though (forums, etc.) that give you the background stuff from the comics. It's interesting to me to see how they deviate from, include and change up things from the source.

Well him wanting to take the supplies and then you could tell the Governor thought that. (with his talk with Mitch). But would have Mitch taken the Gov out? Maybe eventually, if he thought he could do a better job keeping him safe. Or the Gov showed weakness. But I don't think Mitch had traveled as far along the psychopath, em path, yet as the the Gov had. Also Mitch really didn't have the charisma the Gov had to get people to follow him. Maybe he could have learned it. Seemed Martinez did somewhat. So at the moment anyway, Mitch realized his best chance of survival was being #2 to the Gov.

All they had to do was have Mitch say, "my brother didn't understand that showing mercy is showing weakness" rather than symbolically smoking a cigarette and all the plot that you extrapolated or saw via comic forums woulda been on the screen.

 

[meyers7]

All they had to do was have Mitch say, "my brother didn't understand that showing mercy is showing weakness" rather than symbolically smoking a cigarette and all the plot that you extrapolated or saw via comic forums woulda been on the screen.

That would have been a good addition.

 

[Fishy]

I still think looking for logic in a show about zombies is lunacy.

You have to set aside reality more than a little bit with ALL of these shows. Jimmy McNulty could never have created a fake serial killer, Walter White would have been arrested three hours after his first batch of meth and a bunch of soccer moms cannot attack a prison with a tank.

On The Walking Dead...episode 7 was so bad that it made me forget how good episode 6 was and put me off so badly that I didn't watch episode 8 until just now.

Ignoring the fact that soccer moms can be proficient with a machine guns even when under fire for the first time in their lives and that a plumber can become a tank operator, it was a great, great episode.

Plotwise, the prison became a prison and now that's over with - back on the road again.

 

[meyers7]

I still think looking for logic in a show about zombies is lunacy.

Your prerogative.

bunch of soccer moms cannot attack a prison with a tank.

Ignoring the fact that soccer moms can be proficient with a machine guns even when under fire for the first time in their lives and that a plumber can become a tank operator,

You've obviously never lived in an apocalypse.

it was a great, great episode.

Plotwise, the prison became a prison and now that's over with - back on the road again.

Yes, it was pretty good. And I'm glad they are back on the road. Lots of adventures lie ahead.

And speaking of the Walking Dead, looks like there is a Marathon starting the 31st. All 3 1/2 seasons in a row.

(Breaking Bad is on now through the weekend.)

 

[DW4UCONN]

Your prerogative.


You've obviously never lived in an apocalypse.



Yes, it was pretty good. And I'm glad they are back on the road. Lots of adventures lie ahead.

And speaking of the Walking Dead, looks like there is a Marathon starting the 31st. All 3 1/2 seasons in a row.

(Breaking Bad is on now through the weekend.)

Or you could just watch it at your leisure on Netflix

 

[meyers7]

Or you could just watch it at your leisure on Netflix

You could, if you care to pay for Netflix.

 

[DW4UCONN]

You could, if you care to pay for Netflix.

Truthfully I never considered it. My sons wanted it so they share the $7 per month fee. I refused to pay. I have however found it well worth the cost as I have enjoyed so many good movies and programs and feel guilty for making them pay. Particularly have enjoyed the foreign films. You should consider giving it a try. They have Breaking Bad as well.

 

[meyers7]

Truthfully I never considered it. My sons wanted it so they share the $7 per month fee. I refused to pay. I have however found it well worth the cost as I have enjoyed so many good movies and programs and feel guilty for making them pay. Particularly have enjoyed the foreign films. You should consider giving it a try. They have Breaking Bad as well.

Actually had it a few years ago. Hardly ever used it. Only watch a couple of TV shows. Mostly sporting events. Which they don't have.