Walking Dead Season 4

[Dogdeacon]

Duh, yeah. See if they pull a Ben/Billy.


I do love the Carl storyline. One of my favorite characters.


Maybe that's why she didn't put up too much of a fight?? If he's back in charge, with all the crap going on at the prison, maybe the road is a better bet???? Rick tends to get a lot of people killed.

I rather think it's the fact that she has seen Rick operate over the past couple years. He kept her alive when she really didn't have much to offer the group. He's taken on about everyone and won. (Governor, Shane, the prisoners, Meryl, just recently Tyreese). He's not really one you go against and win. She probably realizes this. He's made his decision (although it might end up being the wrong one) and that's pretty much that.

And NOT begging is NOT counter to her new nature. She never said she was sorry for what she did. She stuck to her guns. She thinks she was correct in what she did. She thinks Rick is wrong in what he is doing.

That's fine, but if there really was a council there'd be rules about this that Rick is violating. And Rick has fought challenges to his power but he's also ceded control etc.. Part of your point is Rick is going to catch hell from Daryll, Farmer Ted err Herschel, Lizzie Borden and her sister. She knows this and Rick knows this and the audience sure as f knows this so she's got a chance to plead her way back in.
Carol needed to say
"I think I'm right and the council, governance that we set up should decide my fate - I will abide by that. Rick if you banish me now aren't you in fact hypocritical and doing exactly what you are banishing me for? Namely taking the law and life and death into your own hands. I thought you were not OUR GOVERNOR. Logically if I was wrong you are wrong to banish me on your own. Therefore we are both banished, but since I'm on the alleged council I will put in a good word for you if you drive me back to the prison. Now that I think about it, me accepting this banishment without protest is more admitting that I was wrong than if I cried and pleaded with you. Its like I'm admitting a mistake and willing to start over with a new group having learned my lesson. And I understand that there's only so much time left in the hour so I can't really argue and having someone new off the prison grounds sets up exciting zombie ambush action and new people meet-ups. So I will abide by your decision and see you out here next Sunday night at 10pm EST, 9 Central when they banish you."
Love Carol
PS who is Ben/Billy?

 

[meyers7]

That's fine, but if there really was a council there'd be rules about this that Rick is violating.

Duh, that's what I said. That's one reason it makes it better than taking her back.

Carol needed to say
"I think I'm right and the council, governance that we set up should decide my fate - I will abide by that. Rick if you banish me now aren't you in fact hypocritical and doing exactly what you are banishing me for? Namely taking the law and life and death into your own hands. I thought you were not OUR GOVERNOR. Logically if I was wrong you are wrong to banish me on your own. Therefore we are both banished, but since I'm on the alleged council I will put in a good word for you if you drive me back to the prison. Now that I think about it, me accepting this banishment without protest is more admitting that I was wrong than if I cried and pleaded with you. Its like I'm admitting a mistake and willing to start over with a new group having learned my lesson. And I understand that there's only so much time left in the hour so I can't really argue and having someone new off the prison grounds sets up exciting zombie ambush action and new people meet-ups. So I will abide by your decision and see you out here next Sunday night at 10pm EST, 9 Central when they banish you."
Love Carol

LOL. I suppose that would work if this was a comedy.

PS who is Ben/Billy?

From what I know they were brothers in the comics. We got Ben with Donna and Allen last season. (they were with Tyreese and Sasha), but not Ben's twin Billy. But in the comics Ben, I think, kind of has the same feelings for the walkers as Lizzie does. Thinks everyone gets to come back.....so what if they come back as a walker, they get to come back. Anyway he kills his twin brother Billy so he can come back as a walker. Anyway Lizzie seems fascinated by the walkers and a bit psycho. Be interesting to see how this affects her.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Sunday's night's episode was either the best in series history or in the top 3 (pilot might still be 1, then last night or episode where they revisited the holed up character Morgan from the pilot). I can't think of a single thing that could have been done better. Herschel stuff was great in dialogue, depth and action. Rick & Carl storyline similarly good in action and character development. Plus great for what they did not do as they did not belabor the point about Carol. Almost no equivocation, just the facts. Music was great too.

Smart viewers might decide/pretend that was the season or even series finale given the very last shot portends of bad acting doom.

 

[Dogdeacon]

That move (Rick banishing Carol) surprised me. Didn't see that coming. But I think I might disagree with you on it being a less interesting choice. Oh the things they can do.
1) Carol is out there somewhere now. They can follow her story or maybe she can run into the Governor, or Morgan. Or another group that somehow saves the prison group....all kinds of possibilities.
SO FAR WRONG! I BET SHE SIMPLY MAKES A DRAMATIC COMEBACK SAVING SOMEONE'S BACON FROM OUT OF NOWHERE.
2) what does Rick tell the group? He unilaterally banished her without Council input or consent? Heck he's not even on the Council and she was. That's gotta go over like a lead balloon. This would be the perfect role for the Council. How is it going to react? Rick goes from Farmer, skips the council and goes straight to Ricktatorship again? Don't think that will play well.
WRONG - DARRYL TBD BUT HERSCHEL AND THE HOT CHICK DIDN'T QUIBBLE ONE BIT
3) How does Daryl react? That's certainly not going to endear Rick to Daryl. Now Daryl has lost the two closest people to him. Both because of Rick.
TBD
4) How does Tyreese react? Glad Rick found out, but Rick let the person go? I doubt he is going to be satisfied with banishment. He wanted justice and blood.
TBD, HIS SISTER GETTING BETTER WILL SOFTEN THE BLOW
5) Didn't Carl do almost the same thing? Took out a threat in cold blood before they really knew if it was a threat? He wasn't banished. They just took his gun away for awhile.....and now he has it back.
NOT ONLY DOES HE HAVE IT BACK, HE'S GOT A MACHINE GUN BITCH!

Pretty sure like the Governor (AHHHHHHH!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and Morgan (YEY!!!!), we'll see Carol again. Be very interesting when she shows up again.


Love this new threat. A very simple threat pre-apocolypse (flu shot, some Theraflu and everyone is good to go), now becomes something they can't even control as well as they control walkers. Brilliant idea.

 

[meyers7]

SO FAR WRONG! I BET SHE SIMPLY MAKES A DRAMATIC COMEBACK SAVING SOMEONE'S BACON FROM OUT OF NOWHERE.

ummm, yea, that's one of the possibilities. Duh?

WRONG - DARRYL TBD BUT HERSCHEL AND THE HOT CHICK DIDN'T QUIBBLE ONE BIT

So far. We'll see. As the stated on the Talking Dead, is there even a Council left??? Or will there be?? And Rick is kinda making it out he did it for her good. Sorta.

TBD, HIS SISTER GETTING BETTER WILL SOFTEN THE BLOW

Maybe. One of the guys on the Talking Dead said there won't be any time for them to even think about Carol. It's all going to hell (more so than already), over the next couple episodes. He might be on to something.

NOT ONLY DOES HE HAVE IT BACK, HE'S GOT A MACHINE GUN BITCH!]

Glad to see they are finally letting him be himself.

(AHHHHHHH!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Well he is listed as one of the stars. Gotta know he's coming back.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I think my point still stands, banishing Carol was less interesting plot than bringing her back. Only 1 episode in but for now that stands because in that one episode they had Rick explain it and rather than 'go over like a lead balloon' everyone to whom he explained it bought it 100% and moved on immediately. They accepted it not only based on the logic of it, but also the fact that debating it would have been bad TV.

And incidentally they addressed & dismissed the stupid council thing via Herschell's spaghetti joke. In prior seasons the show would have punted or ignored a failed initiative like that. The Spaghetti Dinner is the council's final act

 

[Fishy]

You should never be allowed to own a television.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I don't read them for this show but you know there's an industry now of writing recaps even for 30 minute sitcoms. You can't throw everyone's tv out the window

 

[UConn990411]

You should never be allowed to own a television.

Yeah, it's absurd how much these two analyze this show.

This isn't Breaking Bad - there isn't a whole lot of depth to The Walking Dead. It's about a group of people trying to avoid getting eaten by the millions of zombies around them. That's it.

The Walking Dead is purely meant to entertain you. Stop thinking so hard.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Yeah, it's absurd how much these two analyze this show.

This isn't Breaking Bad - there isn't a whole lot of depth to The Walking Dead. It's about a group of people trying to avoid getting eaten by the millions of zombies around them. That's it.

The Walking Dead is purely meant to entertain you. Stop thinking so hard.

We've got a back and forth that entertains us. I enjoy nitpicking and meyers enjoys being a loyal follower. We aren't making you read it are we?


http://www.walkingdeadforums.com/forum/
Please go read all of the forums in this link and send similar complaints to the admins and posters on each board. Then come bitch at me or meyers when you've drove a stake thru all of their heads.

 

[meyers7]

Yeah, it's absurd how much these two analyze this show.

Ya doesn't hast to read it.

This isn't Breaking Bad - there isn't a whole lot of depth to The Walking Dead. It's about a group of people trying to avoid getting eaten by the millions of zombies around them. That's it.

The Walking Dead is about twice as deep as Breaking Bad.

The Walking Dead is purely meant to entertain you. Stop thinking so hard.

Then you are missing about half the show.

 

[meyers7]

Excellent job of bringing the Gov back. Didn't think I would like it, but it looks like this is going to be an interesting arc.

This is kind of going along the graphic novel arc of the Governor. Interesting.

 

[UConn Dan]

Excellent job of bringing the Gov back. Didn't think I would like it, but it looks like this is going to be an interesting arc.

This is kind of going along the graphic novel arc of the Governor. Interesting.

Agree... haven't read the GN yet, but I like that they spent the time to show what he's been up to all these months... and showing his other side. You don't know whether to root for him now or against him.

I have a feeling he wasn't the one baiting the walkers with rats at the fence... I think he's at the prison looking for a coalition of sorts. I guess we won't find out until episode 8 at the earliest, assuming they continue the Gov. running into Martinez story for a full episode.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Excellent job of bringing the Gov back. Didn't think I would like it, but it looks like this is going to be an interesting arc.

This is kind of going along the graphic novel arc of the Governor. Interesting.

I agree. The guy running the show this year is VASTLY superior to the prior show runners. He's methodically correcting almost every problem, better music & art and getting more out of the actors. Problem with the Governor before was that we were given no reason to care or understand why he went psycho (and kept his zombie daughter & killed the Nat'l guardsmen). That's in the past and in this new 3rd iteration we were shown how he's lost everything twice and reboots. Previously I strongly disagreed about the depth of the show (it was left to viewer) but now they are tapping into that.

When the Gov was getting the Oxygen tanks I had to ask myself why I wasn't rooting for him to get bit so that we'd be guaranteed a 2-3 episode arc so as to be done with him. Somehow they made me root for him which is good TV. Alas, if only I didn't have to go to someone's else's house to watch TV after Fishy repossessed mine.

 

[meyers7]

Agree... haven't read the GN yet, but I like that they spent the time to show what he's been up to all these months... and showing his other side. You don't know whether to root for him now or against him.

I haven't read it either. I just run across stuff (on that internet thingy). I agree, they are kind of giving him a redemption arc, (Merleish). Pretty sure someone, something is gonna kill him this season though.

I have a feeling he wasn't the one baiting the walkers with rats at the fence... I think he's at the prison looking for a coalition of sorts. I guess we won't find out until episode 8 at the earliest, assuming they continue the Gov. running into Martinez story for a full episode.

Quite possibly. I could see him having a run in with Martinez, trying to protect his "family" and turning to the only place he knows that could stand up against or protect his "family" from, Martinez. Could be interesting.

 

[meyers7]

I agree. The guy running the show this year is VASTLY superior to the prior show runners.

Yea, Scott Gimple has done a great job this season. I thought he might be pretty good as he wrote many of the better episodes in the past.
Clear - the road trip where they find Morgan
Pretty Much Dead Already - where Sophie comes out of the barn
18 Miles Out - the road trip where Rick and Shane fight trying to get rid of Randall
This Sorrowful Life - where Merle dies.

He is/was supposedly a big fan of the comics, having been reading them prior to working on the show.

When the Gov was getting the Oxygen tanks I had to ask myself why I wasn't rooting for him to get bit so that we'd be guaranteed a 2-3 episode arc so as to be done with him. Somehow they made me root for him which is good TV. Alas, if only I didn't have to go to someone's else's house to watch TV after Fishy repossessed mine.

Yea, they may try to make us root for him against Martinez or someone else. Or maybe his "bad" side will come out again??

Just make sure Fishy doesn't know where you live.

 

[UConn Dan]

I haven't read it either. I just run across stuff (on that internet thingy). I agree, they are kind of giving him a redemption arc, (Merleish). Pretty sure someone, something is gonna kill him this season though.


Quite possibly. I could see him having a run in with Martinez, trying to protect his "family" and turning to the only place he knows that could stand up against or protect his "family" from, Martinez. Could be interesting.

Yup -- i think he's dead this season...

My guess is he redeems himself to the prison group by offering his life (for Michonne to take) in order to save his new "family". And Michonne, since she has evolved, ends up not killing him, yet he dies by other means...

 

[meyers7]

Yup -- i think he's dead this season...

My guess is he redeems himself to the prison group by offering his life (for Michonne to take) in order to save his new "family". And Michonne, since she has evolved, ends up not killing him, yet he dies by other means...

hmmm, that would be an interesting take.


In the comics (Spoiler, so don't read if you don't want), a woman named Lily is responsible for his death.

 

[Fishy]

This season is far better than last season - way, way, way better.

This week's episode with the governor was flat-out terrific.

 

[Joobie]

This season is far better than last season - way, way, way better.

This week's episode with the governor was flat-out terrific.

I LOVED it. Kept remembering that scene with Milton in the torture chamber in Woodbury when Milton asks him "What would your daughter think?" The Gov replies "If I was like I am now, she would still be alive". His relationship with Megan is another shot at that...at decency, maybe. I'm not completely convinced, after he blew away all those people after the fight at the prison, that there is still a "good guy" under there somewhere, but I am certainly enjoying the journey! GREAT writing!

 

[Fishy]

What makes that episode even more impressive is that it was a completely different story entirely - it was basically a new show.

If that episode was the pilot for a new series or a spinoff, I'd have been hooked.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I LOVED it. Kept remembering that scene with Milton in the torture chamber in Woodbury when Milton asks him "What would your daughter think?" The Gov replies "If I was like I am now, she would still be alive". His relationship with Megan is another shot at that...at decency, maybe. I'm not completely convinced, after he blew away all those people after the fight at the prison, that there is still a "good guy" under there somewhere, but I am certainly enjoying the journey! GREAT writing!

Not to go back in time, on your comment but that's what I do. Problem with that statement (If I was like I am now) and the Governor then was you also had his inexplicable fishtank of heads and murder of national guardsmen. Not sure how his daughter would have benefitted from those things.

But water under the bridge. I would have liked for him to have said "He lost his way and lost them" as opposed to "he lost them" regarding what happened. So we are still not sure if he's self aware and trying to change or just trying to forget and start new while still broken at the core. But that's almost my only quibble with an excellent episode and a fantastic reboot of a previously botched character.

 

[meyers7]

But water under the bridge. I would have liked for him to have said "He lost his way and lost them" as opposed to "he lost them" regarding what happened. So we are still not sure if he's self aware and trying to change or just trying to forget and start new while still broken at the core. But that's almost my only quibble with an excellent episode and a fantastic reboot of a previously botched character.

I think that's they way they want him to be. On the Talking Dead, Morrissey talked about the Gov fighting both sides of himself. Jekyll and Hyde. And not knowing when that switch (where he killed all his own people), might go off again. I think we'll get to see both sides in the next few episodes. We know the Gov gets to the prison, but it will be interesting to see which Gov.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I think that's they way they want him to be. On the Talking Dead, Morrissey talked about the Gov fighting both sides of himself. Jekyll and Hyde. And not knowing when that switch (where he killed all his own people), might go off again. I think we'll get to see both sides in the next few episodes. We know the Gov gets to the prison, but it will be interesting to see which Gov.

Yeah I think they've done a good job of setting that internal conflict up. Problem is we don't know if the Hyde side is purposely suppressed and hidden or if he's just nuts and trying to keep that part of himself down. I think the latter, but again 'Brian' saying the "Governor" went crazy instead of 'he lost them' would be better evidence of that. But I will give benefit of the doubt, and now being in the fold with Martinez allows Brian's new crew to uncover the past by themselves and presumably he can explain to them and us what happened.

Previously the character was 100% Hyde. Martinez & henchmen knew of his murderous rage on Nat'l guardsmen, at least Milton knew of his daughter and probably the heads as did others (presumably he didn't build the fishtank himself and someone would have had to observe him collecting his trophies). So he play acted in front of the townspeople and Andrea, but yet held the fights and stupid Zombie experimentation/collection so the pretense was not believable for "Andrea types" or henchmen to buy into it and more importantly for the audience there was no nuance he was simply a motiveless murderer. They took a big step to cure this right at the start of last Sunday's episode by having the henchmen drive off.

 

[meyers7]

Previously the character was 100% Hyde. Martinez & henchmen knew of his murderous rage on Nat'l guardsmen, at least Milton knew of his daughter and probably the heads as did others (presumably he didn't build the fishtank himself and someone would have had to observe him collecting his trophies).

Yea, if you remember when Merle came back to say he'd taken care of Michonne, the Gov asked Merle for her head. So yea, the henchmen were the ones bringing him the heads. They knew how whacked he was (is, will be in the future?).