Vital - Kenpom AAC POY (thus far)

[superjohn]

How much does it pain you to see a guy you’ve been trashing all season sitting top of the conference POY rankings? In the most unbiased metric there is.

I love Vital. I don't love when he makes bad decisions at the end of games which I thought he did again today despite playing a great overall game. I love Alterique too and rip his poor decisions at the end of games too.

You really need to get over this thing where you think UConn fans hate UConn players when they comment on poor plays.

 

[uconnbill]

Both need to drop this and enjoy the very good win today.

 

[JimHurley]

LOVE CV!! One of my favorite to ever put on the jersey. Anybody have any clue how easy it’d be for a guy in his scenario to get down on himself and lose confidence/heart? Not CV. This dude has left it all out on the floor for 4 years straight. Yes he frustrates the hell out of me and absolutely makes his fair share of dumb plays. But he’s been a warrior for this program and deserves a lot of respect. Poor kid has gone through a painful stretch of UConn basketball but he’s given everything he’s got.

 

[DaveHuskiesFan]

I love Vital. I don't love when he makes bad decisions at the end of games which I thought he did again today despite playing a great overall game. I love Alterique too and rip his poor decisions at the end of games too.

You really need to get over this thing where you think UConn fans hate UConn players when they comment on poor plays.

My point has always been this, do I think vital is on the Mount Rushmore of UConn guards? No, absolutely not and it’s not even close. But for a guy who was a top 200 recruit, to have the career he’s had (even amidst the losing) to be a potential conference player of the year candidate is incredible.

So often over the course of his career, he’s been the scapegoat for a lot of the issues the teams have had on this board. He impacts the game in so many ways, a lot of people see a bad shot and and ignore the rest (and it’s easy to do that).

The issue hasn’t been Vital, its the talent that’s surrounded him throughout his career (with the exception of Jalen really).

 

[Dooooooomed]

Only moved up 2 spots in NET to #71. Double digit road wins are what boosts this metric, unfortunately.

 

[UconnFanDC]

He can shoot free throws, rebound and steal. Not following other guys in conference but I'm sure he's probably in the top in these categories. That shooting percentage, especially from 3 and hacking up shots has got to improve over these next games.

 

[Watchdog]

My point has always been this, do I think vital is on the Mount Rushmore of UConn guards? No, absolutely not and it’s not even close. But for a guy who was a top 200 recruit, to have the career he’s had (even amidst the losing) to be a potential conference player of the year candidate is incredible.

So often over the course of his career, he’s been the scapegoat for a lot of the issues the teams have had on this board. He impacts the game in so many ways, a lot of people see a bad shot and and ignore the rest (and it’s easy to do that).

The issue hasn’t been Vital, its the talent that’s surrounded him throughout his career (with the exception of Jalen really).

Impact in games? You mean like the putback in OT where he came from outside the arc, from the other side of the lane, through the lane between several defenders to grab the rebound and put it in so fast you could have missed it?
That epitomizes what we all love about CV and we ought to get off this argument and appreciate what he's done for four years. We should also notice how supportive he's been of others and the hug he gave JB when he made a big play late in the game shows how much he cares about the team and winning. He sure doesn't look selfish even though he does seem to believe every rebound is his...................

 

[UConn990411]

It's always bothered me the way folks here have talked about him. Written him off. Theres a reason he leads the team in 4 statistical categories, most importantly HEART. There are unquantifiable "things" that he does day to day that won't show up in the box score. I think Calhoun could have made Vital an All-American. I don't care what anyone else thinks here.

He would have been even better if he had four years under Calhoun (or four years under Hurley), but this is just silly. Ben Gordon wasn’t an All-American under Calhoun, and he was miles ahead of Vital as a player.

 

[caw]

Revisionist history. Go compare their stats. Vital beats him in every single facet:

Three point %
FG%
Rebounding %
Steal %
Offensive efficiency
Offensive rating
True shooting %
FT %

Some of those stats may be skewed by 1) who they play with (RB% specifically) and 2) how the teams were taught to play (Stl %).

Dyson played with three bigs who could rebound better than anyone Vital plays with on the current team. Also, Dysons UConn teams played defense more to funnel the players at Thabeet which wasn’t really as conducive to steals IMO.

3pt % got Vital was only significantly better their respective freshman and Junior years. And even then Dyson was on extremely low volume his Junior year.

FG% Dyson and Vital split two years each and while I haven’t run it I imagine the overall isn’t significant. 39.0% vs 40.1%.

Also, don’t forget Dyson played a much harder schedule especially his Jr and Sr years.

 

[Mike1984]

It’s not hate dude. It’s just reality. Answer this simple question...will Christian vital be drafted or make an NBA team? Or even the D league for that matter?

And if the answer is no he’s already worse than the majority of UConn guards within the last 20 years.

Let’s at least start there

Did Boatright get drafted? No he was Undrafted and he was a great UConn guard. You can’t define college greatness by if you get drafted. He played in the summer league for the nets. Vital might have a chance to do that. Kid still gives it his all and is a leader. Even in his postgame game conferences he said he didn’t come here for personal accolades he came here to win. Sucks that we’ve sucked for the last few years but he has never given up. I applaud him for that!

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Man, if we could have landed Precious...

I have said before, CV is the straw that stirs the drink.

 

[the Q]

Some of those stats may be skewed by 1) who they play with (RB% specifically) and 2) how the teams were taught to play (Stl %).

Dyson played with three bigs who could rebound better than anyone Vital plays with on the current team. Also, Dysons UConn teams played defense more to funnel the players at Thabeet which wasn’t really as conducive to steals IMO.

3pt % got Vital was only significantly better their respective freshman and Junior years. And even then Dyson was on extremely low volume his Junior year.

FG% Dyson and Vital split two years each and while I haven’t run it I imagine the overall isn’t significant. 39.0% vs 40.1%.

Also, don’t forget Dyson played a much harder schedule especially his Jr and Sr years.

Dyson also shot from the shorter 3pt line.

hed be a libility from this current distance.

 

[mauconnfan]

Dyson also shot from the shorter 3pt line.

hed be a libility from this current distance.

Wait isn't CV a liability from a longer distance this year? Until yesterday 10% lower than last year.

This is a crazy argument and the fact KenPoms stats show this tells you all you need to know about some stats lol. But you can't measure heart in stats and I know for sure I like CVs heart a ton there is not give up on the kid. He looked like he was going to finally have a "CV like" night after drilling his first 3 or 4 but missed a few after that but to me only one was ill advised. As a secondary shot with 14 seconds I liked his missed 3, watched the game with my brother and we both liked it because he was playing well and was open.

Listen you can argue Dyson and CV all day long they were so similar from the way they played and even more so from the way the fans had their differing views. Both played hard, a little out of control at times but could carry a team for a while in games. Dyson was more athletic and thats about it, otherwise it's a toss up.

CV was really good overall yesterday and that's all that counts on the way home for his senior year.

 

[the Q]

Wait isn't CV a liability from a longer distance this year? Until yesterday 10% lower than last year.

This is a crazy argument and the fact KenPoms stats show this tells you all you need to know about some stats lol. But you can't measure heart in stats and I know for sure I like CVs heart a ton there is not give up on the kid. He looked like he was going to finally have a "CV like" night after drilling his first 3 or 4 but missed a few after that but to me only one was ill advised. As a secondary shot with 14 seconds I liked his missed 3, watched the game with my brother and we both liked it because he was playing well and was open.

Listen you can argue Dyson and CV all day long they were so similar from the way they played and even more so from the way the fans had their differing views. Both played hard, a little out of control at times but could carry a team for a while in games. Dyson was more athletic and thats about it, otherwise it's a toss up.

CV was really good overall yesterday and that's all that counts on the way home for his senior year.

from an even further line than the already longer distance than guys like dyson and Anderson had for all or a significant part of their careers

 

[mauconnfan]

from an even further line than the already longer distance than guys like dyson and Anderson had for all or a significant part of their careers

Well please don't put Anderson in this either of the other 2 as neither are the shooters Rashad was, especially clutch wise but who was. I will give you though that Dysons range wasn't great but again, they were very similar in so many ways. He was a set shooter like CV so the first jump in distance may not have hurt him but where they are now could have not sure.

 

[SubbaBub]

Huh? What eras would Vital be our starting shooting guard in?

Assuming you didn't have two primary SG recruits at the same time.

2009 FF team.
2004 NC team if Gordon wasn't there.
2011 NC team if he were ahead of Bazz on class.
2014 NC team if Boat wasn't there.

1999 would have beem tough because we didn't play with a true shooting guard. RIP was more of a 3 with Moore and KEA as a dual point guard. But he could have filled KEA's spot despite that fact being an afront to the purists around here.

CV was a quintessential JC kind of guy. Do doubt he would have done as well if not better under JC.

 

[DaveHuskiesFan]

Some of those stats may be skewed by 1) who they play with (RB% specifically) and 2) how the teams were taught to play (Stl %).

Dyson played with three bigs who could rebound better than anyone Vital plays with on the current team. Also, Dysons UConn teams played defense more to funnel the players at Thabeet which wasn’t really as conducive to steals IMO.

3pt % got Vital was only significantly better their respective freshman and Junior years. And even then Dyson was on extremely low volume his Junior year.

FG% Dyson and Vital split two years each and while I haven’t run it I imagine the overall isn’t significant. 39.0% vs 40.1%.

Also, don’t forget Dyson played a much harder schedule especially his Jr and Sr years.

Dyson was a career 31.8% 3PT shooter form a much closer line. Vital is 35.2%. I'd consider that significant.

Dyson was 42.3% from 2 point shots. Vital is 46.2%. I'd consider that significant as well.

FT% dyson was 73.5%, Vital is 82.9%. i'd consider that significant.

True shooting % Dyson was 50.55% and Vital is 56.6%. I'd consider that significant.

Dyson had higher assist rates, but also a higher turnover rate. I do think Vital overall, is a significantly better player. And this is the worst shooting year of his career so it's similar in that regard (Dyson's senior year was also his worst shooting year interestingly enough).

 

[DaveHuskiesFan]

Well please don't put Anderson in this neither of the other 2 are the shooters Rashad was, especially clutch wise but who was. I will give you though that Dysons range wasn't great but again, they were very similar in so many ways. He was a set shooter like CV so the first jump in distance may not have hurt him but where they are now could have not sure.

The jump from Dyson to Vital is more than the jump from Vital to Rashad when comparing 3pt%. And thats considering he's shooting from much further back as mentioned above. But yes, Rashad is the best shooter in UConn history IMO (In college).

 

[Hankster]

I sadly think Precious will sweep POY ROY and DPOY

If only Bouk started his fire from the start of the season, he would be a lock for ROY. Both games Bouk shined in were nationally televised. That's a good thing.

 

[DayDayTFS]

You all realize there a multiple options every play... hellooo. A good team takes away option #1

 

[Captbluefin]

CV playing in the AAC the freakin AAC!!!! And some metric BS says POY. Come on...

The rest were way better in the real 90’s-2000’s BIG EAST!!!!!

CV is a heart and hustle guy. But would be on the court for 10-15 mins on a vintage Uconn team in the Big East

 

[Edward Sargent]

The jump from Dyson to Vital is more than the jump from Vital to Rashad when comparing 3pt%. And thats considering he's shooting from much further back as mentioned above. But yes, Rashad is the best shooter in UConn history IMO (In college).

Glad you said in college because Ray Allen is the best ever

 

[mauconnfan]

Dyson was a career 31.8% 3PT shooter form a much closer line. Vital is 35.2%. I'd consider that significant.

Dyson was 42.3% from 2 point shots. Vital is 46.2%. I'd consider that significant as well.

FT% dyson was 73.5%, Vital is 82.9%. i'd consider that significant.

True shooting % Dyson was 50.55% and Vital is 56.6%. I'd consider that significant.

Dyson had higher assist rates, but also a higher turnover rate. I do think Vital overall, is a significantly better player. And this is the worst shooting year of his career so it's similar in that regard (Dyson's senior year was also his worst shooting year interestingly enough).

Significantly better is just crazy let's be honest. You can argue these 2 all day and all night not sure who would be right they are so similar. All those numbers are great but Dyson played against much tougher competition especially the league for sure no brainer there. They both played a bit out of control and were both tough defenders. Not even sure I could call it either way the only separation may be Dysons athleticism, better finisher. Everything left on the floor type of players though, toss up!

 

[SubbaBub]

CV is better than Dyson over his career and at his peak. This isn't even an argument.

The closer call is KEA. CV does everything just as well with a weaker supporting cast. The major pause is that 1999 was a whole better than sum of its parts team. If you actually changed any of the first 11 off the bench, you might get a different result.

Gordon was clearly better and I don't think CV could complement Okafor quite as well but that was a dominant team.

2006 would have been interesting. Does CV give that team the attitude required to not play so soft.

2009 is the best comparison, as close to a like for like swap with Dyson.

2011, a senor CV might play over a freshman Bazz but why screw with history.

2014, could CV work as a clear 2nd fiddle to Bazz. Boat did his job all season. Would CV and Bazz get along like that if Bazz shoved him?

 

[mauconnfan]

CV is better than Dyson over his career and at his peak. This isn't even an argument.

The closer call is KEA. CV does everything just as well with a weaker supporting cast. The major pause is that 1999 was a whole better than sum of its parts team. If you actually changed any of the first 11 off the bench, you might get a different result.

Gordon was clearly better and I don't think CV could complement Okafor quite as well but that was a dominant team.

2006 would have been interesting. Does CV give that team the attitude required to not play so soft.

2009 is the best comparison, as close to a like for like swap with Dyson.

2011, a senor CV might play over a freshman Bazz but why screw with history.

2014, could CV work as a clear 2nd fiddle to Bazz. Boat did his job all season. Would CV and Bazz get along like that if Bazz shoved him?

Well there is an argument for sure and it's damn close with those 2 (dyson cv) like it or not. Good argument for either side.

As far as KEA man I hope you're kidding? There is not an argument for those 2 to even be in the same sentence, that's ridiculous. #1 a PG vs a 2G who can't handle it half as good and #2 you can have all the heart you want from either of these but the swag and the answers all come from KEA. Not close nor should it be.

 

[mauconnfan]

I have an idea for all the CV lovers, let's all be a happy family after a great win and not worry about who he's better or as good as. Just let him play out his senior year and see where it goes, his career is not over yet. Maybe he makes a case for himself and you guys about how good he is/was? The kid has a solid game after being a mason for weeks and now he's KEA who won a national championship against the best team maybe ever assembled in college basketball? Geez relax quit getting crazy after his 6-17 performance LOL.

 

[UConnDad]

Lol no actually I am not. Vital does a lot of great things and statistics will show that. Numbers don't account for alot of things though man. I mean let's be honest there are players on other teams (not just Bouknight from our team), that I would rather have making plays at the end of game for us if they were on our team. Collins at USF, Cumberland (offensively).

Vital isn't the best player in our conference by measures that Kenpom doesn't seem to look at. NBA scouts are the end all be all when it comes to evaluating and taking true talent Dave. BC they have big bucks $ on the line. That's what I go by. We saw what they said to him 2 yrs ago. Let's see after this season. I think I have an idea.

NBA scouts are irrelevant to this conversation. Bouk has finally emerged as our best offensive player. CV is currently better in many other categories. Hopefully Bouk works to improve cause his NBA potential means squat. Glad to have them both.

 

[mauconnfan]

NBA scouts are irrelevant to this conversation. Bouk has finally emerged as our best offensive player. CV is currently better in many other categories. Hopefully Bouk works to improve cause his NBA potential means squat. Glad to have them both.

Please tell me the "many other" Dad like to hear your thoughts?

 

[UConnDad]

Please tell me the "many other" Dad like to hear your thoughts?

Only D, hustle, rebounding, free throws,steals. I think you know there’s more to the game than offense.

 

[mauconnfan]

Only D, hustle, rebounding, free throws,steals. I think you know there’s more to the game than offense.

Yeah I know lol.