Vital - Kenpom AAC POY (thus far)

[navery12]

How much does it pain you to see a guy you’ve been trashing all season sitting top of the conference POY rankings? In the most unbiased metric there is.

I'm not trashing Vital, I'm trashing you. But I'm done, don't want to continue this

 

[DaveHuskiesFan]

Huh? What eras would Vital be our starting shooting guard in?

Jerome Dyson was a 2/3 year starter. Vital is better than Dyson.

 

[Waquoit]

Jerome Dyson was a 2/3 year starter. Vital is better than Dyson.

Yeah, no.

 

[AdamaNation]

For what it’s worth.

In 2017 Kenpom had Semi Ojelye as the POY and he won.
In 2018 Kenpom had Rob Gray. Gary Clark won (2nd in Kenpom)
In 2019 Kenpom had Cumberland and he won.

Relatively spot on with this stuff.

Only hang up may be record. I don’t recall Cincinnati outperforming Houston too much to assure Clark’s award.

 

[DaveHuskiesFan]

Yeah, no.

Revisionist history. Go compare their stats. Vital beats him in every single facet:

Three point %
FG%
Rebounding %
Steal %
Offensive efficiency
Offensive rating
True shooting %
FT %

 

[DaveHuskiesFan]

You won't even debate or address any of my points. You make selective arguments and call it "hate" when others don't agree with you. This is why I made that very crazy post after Bouk went off against Tulsa. BC you just don't seem to get it. Was hoping that would be the nail in the coffin but you still won't stop w this crap

Because this isn’t about Bouk. He’s a great player and he’s a better play maker than Vital. It’s about the trash that vital gets. I’m sure you’re SHOCKED that he’s considered the be the POY in The AAC by analytics right now.

 

[superjohn]

Jerome Dyson was a 2/3 year starter. Vital is better than Dyson.

That wasn't that hard, you actually responded to what we were talking about instead of going off on a weird tangent. Dyson was the name I thought of too. Dyson was signifigantly more talented and they both play extremely hard. They were fairly similar players. Dyson as a junior I think would have clearly started over Vital. He was playing great ball and we were the best team in the country before he went down. His senior year he drove me nuts...

That was a way better era of UConn basketball and I think Vital will be more beloved than Dyson when it's all said and done because this era has been so bad and he stayed through it all and always gave it his all no matter what, so I don't really agree with Kemba's point.

 

[coachn]

Hope his teammates give him a nice going away present- NCAA,S.

 

[bazz&boujee]

in concerns to the late CV 3, we need him to be a guy who can put teams away with his 3 pt shooting if we’re ever going to have any legitimate success this year. he’s shown the ability to in patches, but he’s also shown the opposite. we lack shooters and options. you need multiple to end the year on a special note. and you can’t make em unless you take em. it was a good look.

 

[Shine33]

Because this isn’t about Bouk. He’s a great player and he’s a better play maker than Vital. It’s about the trash that vital gets. I’m sure you’re SHOCKED that he’s considered the be the POY in The AAC by analytics right now.

Lol no actually I am not. Vital does a lot of great things and statistics will show that. Numbers don't account for alot of things though man. I mean let's be honest there are players on other teams (not just Bouknight from our team), that I would rather have making plays at the end of game for us if they were on our team. Collins at USF, Cumberland (offensively).

Vital isn't the best player in our conference by measures that Kenpom doesn't seem to look at. NBA scouts are the end all be all when it comes to evaluating and taking true talent Dave. BC they have big bucks $ on the line. That's what I go by. We saw what they said to him 2 yrs ago. Let's see after this season. I think I have an idea.

 

[superjohn]

How much does it pain you to see a guy you’ve been trashing all season sitting top of the conference POY rankings? In the most unbiased metric there is.

I love Vital. I don't love when he makes bad decisions at the end of games which I thought he did again today despite playing a great overall game. I love Alterique too and rip his poor decisions at the end of games too.

You really need to get over this thing where you think UConn fans hate UConn players when they comment on poor plays.

 

[uconnbill]

Both need to drop this and enjoy the very good win today.

 

[JimHurley]

LOVE CV!! One of my favorite to ever put on the jersey. Anybody have any clue how easy it’d be for a guy in his scenario to get down on himself and lose confidence/heart? Not CV. This dude has left it all out on the floor for 4 years straight. Yes he frustrates the hell out of me and absolutely makes his fair share of dumb plays. But he’s been a warrior for this program and deserves a lot of respect. Poor kid has gone through a painful stretch of UConn basketball but he’s given everything he’s got.

 

[DaveHuskiesFan]

I love Vital. I don't love when he makes bad decisions at the end of games which I thought he did again today despite playing a great overall game. I love Alterique too and rip his poor decisions at the end of games too.

You really need to get over this thing where you think UConn fans hate UConn players when they comment on poor plays.

My point has always been this, do I think vital is on the Mount Rushmore of UConn guards? No, absolutely not and it’s not even close. But for a guy who was a top 200 recruit, to have the career he’s had (even amidst the losing) to be a potential conference player of the year candidate is incredible.

So often over the course of his career, he’s been the scapegoat for a lot of the issues the teams have had on this board. He impacts the game in so many ways, a lot of people see a bad shot and and ignore the rest (and it’s easy to do that).

The issue hasn’t been Vital, its the talent that’s surrounded him throughout his career (with the exception of Jalen really).

 

[Dooooooomed]

Only moved up 2 spots in NET to #71. Double digit road wins are what boosts this metric, unfortunately.

 

[UconnFanDC]

He can shoot free throws, rebound and steal. Not following other guys in conference but I'm sure he's probably in the top in these categories. That shooting percentage, especially from 3 and hacking up shots has got to improve over these next games.

 

[Watchdog]

My point has always been this, do I think vital is on the Mount Rushmore of UConn guards? No, absolutely not and it’s not even close. But for a guy who was a top 200 recruit, to have the career he’s had (even amidst the losing) to be a potential conference player of the year candidate is incredible.

So often over the course of his career, he’s been the scapegoat for a lot of the issues the teams have had on this board. He impacts the game in so many ways, a lot of people see a bad shot and and ignore the rest (and it’s easy to do that).

The issue hasn’t been Vital, its the talent that’s surrounded him throughout his career (with the exception of Jalen really).

Impact in games? You mean like the putback in OT where he came from outside the arc, from the other side of the lane, through the lane between several defenders to grab the rebound and put it in so fast you could have missed it?
That epitomizes what we all love about CV and we ought to get off this argument and appreciate what he's done for four years. We should also notice how supportive he's been of others and the hug he gave JB when he made a big play late in the game shows how much he cares about the team and winning. He sure doesn't look selfish even though he does seem to believe every rebound is his...................

 

[UConn990411]

It's always bothered me the way folks here have talked about him. Written him off. Theres a reason he leads the team in 4 statistical categories, most importantly HEART. There are unquantifiable "things" that he does day to day that won't show up in the box score. I think Calhoun could have made Vital an All-American. I don't care what anyone else thinks here.

He would have been even better if he had four years under Calhoun (or four years under Hurley), but this is just silly. Ben Gordon wasn’t an All-American under Calhoun, and he was miles ahead of Vital as a player.

 

[caw]

Revisionist history. Go compare their stats. Vital beats him in every single facet:

Three point %
FG%
Rebounding %
Steal %
Offensive efficiency
Offensive rating
True shooting %
FT %

Some of those stats may be skewed by 1) who they play with (RB% specifically) and 2) how the teams were taught to play (Stl %).

Dyson played with three bigs who could rebound better than anyone Vital plays with on the current team. Also, Dysons UConn teams played defense more to funnel the players at Thabeet which wasn’t really as conducive to steals IMO.

3pt % got Vital was only significantly better their respective freshman and Junior years. And even then Dyson was on extremely low volume his Junior year.

FG% Dyson and Vital split two years each and while I haven’t run it I imagine the overall isn’t significant. 39.0% vs 40.1%.

Also, don’t forget Dyson played a much harder schedule especially his Jr and Sr years.

 

[Mike1984]

It’s not hate dude. It’s just reality. Answer this simple question...will Christian vital be drafted or make an NBA team? Or even the D league for that matter?

And if the answer is no he’s already worse than the majority of UConn guards within the last 20 years.

Let’s at least start there

Did Boatright get drafted? No he was Undrafted and he was a great UConn guard. You can’t define college greatness by if you get drafted. He played in the summer league for the nets. Vital might have a chance to do that. Kid still gives it his all and is a leader. Even in his postgame game conferences he said he didn’t come here for personal accolades he came here to win. Sucks that we’ve sucked for the last few years but he has never given up. I applaud him for that!

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Man, if we could have landed Precious...

I have said before, CV is the straw that stirs the drink.

 

[the Q]

Some of those stats may be skewed by 1) who they play with (RB% specifically) and 2) how the teams were taught to play (Stl %).

Dyson played with three bigs who could rebound better than anyone Vital plays with on the current team. Also, Dysons UConn teams played defense more to funnel the players at Thabeet which wasn’t really as conducive to steals IMO.

3pt % got Vital was only significantly better their respective freshman and Junior years. And even then Dyson was on extremely low volume his Junior year.

FG% Dyson and Vital split two years each and while I haven’t run it I imagine the overall isn’t significant. 39.0% vs 40.1%.

Also, don’t forget Dyson played a much harder schedule especially his Jr and Sr years.

Dyson also shot from the shorter 3pt line.

hed be a libility from this current distance.

 

[mauconnfan]

Dyson also shot from the shorter 3pt line.

hed be a libility from this current distance.

Wait isn't CV a liability from a longer distance this year? Until yesterday 10% lower than last year.

This is a crazy argument and the fact KenPoms stats show this tells you all you need to know about some stats lol. But you can't measure heart in stats and I know for sure I like CVs heart a ton there is not give up on the kid. He looked like he was going to finally have a "CV like" night after drilling his first 3 or 4 but missed a few after that but to me only one was ill advised. As a secondary shot with 14 seconds I liked his missed 3, watched the game with my brother and we both liked it because he was playing well and was open.

Listen you can argue Dyson and CV all day long they were so similar from the way they played and even more so from the way the fans had their differing views. Both played hard, a little out of control at times but could carry a team for a while in games. Dyson was more athletic and thats about it, otherwise it's a toss up.

CV was really good overall yesterday and that's all that counts on the way home for his senior year.

 

[the Q]

Wait isn't CV a liability from a longer distance this year? Until yesterday 10% lower than last year.

This is a crazy argument and the fact KenPoms stats show this tells you all you need to know about some stats lol. But you can't measure heart in stats and I know for sure I like CVs heart a ton there is not give up on the kid. He looked like he was going to finally have a "CV like" night after drilling his first 3 or 4 but missed a few after that but to me only one was ill advised. As a secondary shot with 14 seconds I liked his missed 3, watched the game with my brother and we both liked it because he was playing well and was open.

Listen you can argue Dyson and CV all day long they were so similar from the way they played and even more so from the way the fans had their differing views. Both played hard, a little out of control at times but could carry a team for a while in games. Dyson was more athletic and thats about it, otherwise it's a toss up.

CV was really good overall yesterday and that's all that counts on the way home for his senior year.

from an even further line than the already longer distance than guys like dyson and Anderson had for all or a significant part of their careers

 

[mauconnfan]

from an even further line than the already longer distance than guys like dyson and Anderson had for all or a significant part of their careers

Well please don't put Anderson in this either of the other 2 as neither are the shooters Rashad was, especially clutch wise but who was. I will give you though that Dysons range wasn't great but again, they were very similar in so many ways. He was a set shooter like CV so the first jump in distance may not have hurt him but where they are now could have not sure.