"UConn Trying to Snatch $10 Million for a Phone Call with Ray Allen"

[UconnBoston]

In an indirect way, they do, because Ollie's team can easily make the counter case that these violations occur everywhere and are only being brought to light because of the contract situation. The distinction between walking on glass and careening through a China shop is not communicated by the language used in the contract. To the extent that Kevin Ollie ever had an opportunity to fully comply, with watch dogs at every corner and the barrel of the gun plastered to his forehead, is unclear. I would think that it's very possible for the entire premise to be voided based on unrealistic or unfaithful negotiating tactics, especially if no precedent for this kind of action exists. A contract isn't worth the paper it's written on if there's no neutral party to keep score.

I mean, the contract literally states that "a violation by the Coach of any law, rule, regulation, policy, bylaw, or official interpretation of the University" can trigger the cause. That's laughable, and if you followed every contract to that decimal, none of them would ever get signed. Ollie's agent probably viewed it as a complete throwaway clause that the University would use to tout their commitment to compliance. That's the only explanation. The only explanation is that it was literally too ridiculous to worry about. If you want to make yourself the judge, jury, and executioner, what's the point of even having a buyout? Everyone knows what's going on here. Even the people who support the school's move acknowledge the deceit. Really difficult to have any faith in our legal system if a desperation heave like this from a broke institution gets rewarded.

Kevin Ollie and the union are not going to argue that the contract that he negotiated and signed with the input of his agent and lawyer, is unenforceable due to impossibility, or that he could not fulfill the terms of his contract by performing his job in compliance with NCAA rules.

Contracts absolutely get enforced to the decimal when there is a reason to do so. Anyone who signs a contract not expecting the terms to be strictly enforced is a fool. I highly doubt that Ollie's agent considered the provision describing the circumstances under which he could get fired and have his buyout voided a "throwaway clause."

This is not a "desperation heave" by any means. There are serious allegations of misconduct which have been supported by the testimony of one of Ollie's former assistant coaches, including a $30,000 payment to the mother of a former player. The severity of the allegations, in conjunction with Ollie's exceptionally poor performance (which has come more into focus for "casual fans" since the new regime took over) gave the University no choice.

 

[whaler11]

The precedent would be that contracts are enforceable, nothing else.

No no, it would legalize prostitution in Kentucky.

 

[whaler11]

This is not a "desperation heave" by any means. There are serious allegations of misconduct which have been supported by the testimony of one of Ollie's former assistant coaches, including a $30,000 payment to the mother of a former player.

This is total and utter bull .

They arent even pursuing the lies Glen Miller told about this.

They got his lies into the documents so people like you would latch on and amplify, so that people support their tact.

 

[jibsey]

I would bet almost anything that Glenn Miller is not a liar. Now the other thing I believe is that there were plenty of things that Jim Calhoun did that could have been scrutinized on the same order that KO is being looked at. The next shoe to drop? We are going to finally get the details on what happened with players transferring and KO losing the team. From assistant coaches.

 

[UconnBoston]

They got his lies into the documents so people like you would latch on and amplify, so that people support their tact.

This is idiotic. The University is not fighting a PR battle on this issue and the opinions of the public are meaningless to a final determination of whether KO gets the $10M. All that matters is if they can substantiate the decision to the arbitrator. Also, by "got his lies into documents" are you suggesting that UConn got the NCAA compliance team to take Glen Miller's testimony? Who knew they so much influence. Where was that in 2012?

Your entire narrative on this issue is premised upon the idea that UConn pushed Glenn Miller to cooperate with the NCAA, but I am not clear on what evidence there is to support that.

 

[whaler11]

This is idiotic. The University is not fighting a PR battle on this issue and the opinions of the public are meaningless to a final determination of whether KO gets the $10M. All that matters is if they can substantiate the decision to the arbitrator. Also, by "got his lies into documents" are you suggesting that UConn got the NCAA compliance team to take Glen Miller's testimony? Who knew they so much influence. Where was that in 2012?

Your entire narrative on this issue is premised upon the idea that UConn pushed Glenn Miller to cooperate with the NCAA, but I am not clear on what evidence there is to support that.

They aren’t fighting a PR battle but here you are pointing to Miller’s lies as evidence of major violations... another happy coincidence I guess?

Like after they self-reported to kick things off, it was a lucky coincidence that Glen Miller was so willing to sing to the NCAA ‘for immunity’? Immunity from what? Based on what was published all Glen Miller was guilty of was being the whistleblower who was fired for wanting to be compliant.

These aren’t coincidences. Two bitter old men got their revenge against Ollie, and two inept administrators enlisted their help in covering their rear ends.

If you need to lie to yourself that this is about violations and these are just people acting ethically to enforce a contract - knock yourself out. But it’s total nonsense.

If Glen Miller did this off a Sweet Sixteen trip he wouldn’t be able to leave his home because he’d be in physical danger.

If you don’t want to admit you are applying situational ethics that is your choice - certainly it’s all the rage in America today. It doesn’t mean that it’s not obvious to anyone willing to look at the situation with that bias.

 

[UConnStats]

Kevin Ollie will have trouble getting a decent college coaching gig.

The work ethic thing is a killer...ask Al Skinner.

His best bet is hooking on with some California or west coast school that’s just looking for a name. And they’ll regret it.

I could see him trying to go the Capel route, and after time passes, take a job as a recruiter at a big time program. Maybe he’ll be too proud though considering he won a ring as a HC.

 

[CL82]

In an indirect way, they do, because Ollie's team can easily make the counter case that these violations occur everywhere and are only being brought to light because of the contract situation. The distinction between walking on glass and careening through a China shop is not communicated by the language used in the contract. To the extent that Kevin Ollie ever had an opportunity to fully comply, with watch dogs at every corner and the barrel of the gun plastered to his forehead, is unclear. I would think that it's very possible for the entire premise to be voided based on unrealistic or unfaithful negotiating tactics, especially if no precedent for this kind of action exists. A contract isn't worth the paper it's written on if there's no neutral party to keep score.

I mean, the contract literally states that "a violation by the Coach of any law, rule, regulation, policy, bylaw, or official interpretation of the University" can trigger the cause. That's laughable, and if you followed every contract to that decimal, none of them would ever get signed. Ollie's agent probably viewed it as a complete throwaway clause that the University would use to tout their commitment to compliance. That's the only explanation. The only explanation is that it was literally too ridiculous to worry about. If you want to make yourself the judge, jury, and executioner, what's the point of even having a buyout? Everyone knows what's going on here. Even the people who support the school's move acknowledge the deceit. Really difficult to have any faith in our legal system if a desperation heave like this from a broke institution gets rewarded.

So I appreciate that thoughtful response but I disagree with the bulk of it. The reason why people reduce their agreements to writing is to avoid ambiguity. The notion that that somehow is a flaw, is 100% wrong.

 

[JMick]

They aren’t fighting a PR battle but here you are pointing to Miller’s lies as evidence of major violations... another happy coincidence I guess?

Like after they self-reported to kick things off, it was a lucky coincidence that Glen Miller was so willing to sing to the NCAA ‘for immunity’? Immunity from what? Based on what was published all Glen Miller was guilty of was being the whistleblower who was fired for wanting to be compliant.

These aren’t coincidences. Two bitter old men got their revenge against Ollie, and two inept administrators enlisted their help in covering their rear ends.

If you need to lie to yourself that this is about violations and these are just people acting ethically to enforce a contract - knock yourself out. But it’s total nonsense.

If Glen Miller did this off a Sweet Sixteen trip he wouldn’t be able to leave his home because he’d be in physical danger.

If you don’t want to admit you are applying situational ethics that is your choice - certainly it’s all the rage in America today. It doesn’t mean that it’s not obvious to anyone willing to look at the situation with that bias.

You don't think it's possible that Glen Miller did this on his own? Because it sure seems like a revenge plot that didn't need any prompting

 

[huskymedic]

My time studying law began ten minutes ago, but I have learned that a contract can be rendered unenforceable if its terms are deemed "impossible or impracticable to carry out."

This suggests to me that UConn's burden of proof is higher than people think. They don't just have to proof he committed violations, they have to prove that it would have been reasonably possible to do his job without committing any violations. Because this is a court of law and not an appeal to the NCAA, it's unlikely that a neutral third party will view this as anything other than a desperate attempt to scrabble together some extra change.

I guess he shouldn’t have certified that the program was clean then each year after the required NCAA/UConn Compliance Training...

From the Eaton-Robb AP Story: UConn: Ollie fired for impermissible contact, workouts

>>Benedict said Ollie had three times certified to him that the program was in compliance with all NCAA rules.<<

Those certifications that ask if you know of any bad things going on - aren’t throw away forms and will come back to haunt you when...

 

[whaler11]

You don't think it's possible that Glen Miller did this on his own? Because it sure seems like a revenge plot that didn't need any prompting

LOL - you should stick to comparing Ollie’s personal actions to the admistrations’s professional actions.

 

[Candyman]

I could see him trying to go the Capel route, and after time passes, take a job as a recruiter at a big time program. Maybe he’ll be too proud though considering he won a ring as a HC.

Kevin Ollie can get a job again in a few years at a mid-major easily. People have done worse and got hired again. He has a ring and a name that would attaract fans of a mid-major program. He would have to prove he can coach and win at a lower D1 school for a while before he can get back to the majors. Thats what Hurley and most coaches had to do to start their careers, Ollie was handed a Blue Blood program thanks to Calhoun before ever being a head coach before.

 

[JMick]

LOL - you should stick to comparing Ollie’s personal actions to the admistrations’s professional actions.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[UconnBoston]

They aren’t fighting a PR battle but here you are pointing to Miller’s lies as evidence of major violations... another happy coincidence I guess?

Like after they self-reported to kick things off, it was a lucky coincidence that Glen Miller was so willing to sing to the NCAA ‘for immunity’? Immunity from what? Based on what was published all Glen Miller was guilty of was being the whistleblower who was fired for wanting to be compliant.

These aren’t coincidences. Two bitter old men got their revenge against Ollie, and two inept administrators enlisted their help in covering their rear ends.

If you need to lie to yourself that this is about violations and these are just people acting ethically to enforce a contract - knock yourself out. But it’s total nonsense.

If Glen Miller did this off a Sweet Sixteen trip he wouldn’t be able to leave his home because he’d be in physical danger.

If you don’t want to admit you are applying situational ethics that is your choice - certainly it’s all the rage in America today. It doesn’t mean that it’s not obvious to anyone willing to look at the situation with that bias.

There can be no rational discussion with you about this issue because your entire perspective is premised upon two suppositions which you have no evidence of, namely: (1) Glenn Miller is lying; and (2) his cooperation with the NCAA was encouraged by UConn as a means of ousting Ollie.

I guess your definition of "fighting a PR battle" is the schools alumni and fan base knowing some of the underlying facts and supporting their decision. A more objective person might view that as evidence that they made the correct choice.

You accuse those who support the school of situational ethics, but are willing to completely disregard or minimize the significance of all allegations of NCAA violations committed by Ollie.

 

[champs99and04]

Kevin Ollie and the union are not going to argue that the contract that he negotiated and signed with the input of his agent and lawyer, is unenforceable due to impossibility, or that he could not fulfill the terms of his contract by performing his job in compliance with NCAA rules.

Contracts absolutely get enforced to the decimal when there is a reason to do so. Anyone who signs a contract not expecting the terms to be strictly enforced is a fool. I highly doubt that Ollie's agent considered the provision describing the circumstances under which he could get fired and have his buyout voided a "throwaway clause."

This is not a "desperation heave" by any means. There are serious allegations of misconduct which have been supported by the testimony of one of Ollie's former assistant coaches, including a $30,000 payment to the mother of a former player. The severity of the allegations, in conjunction with Ollie's exceptionally poor performance (which has come more into focus for "casual fans" since the new regime took over) gave the University no choice.

I understand the University had no choice. And what I consider a desperation heave might not be the same as what other people think.

But you lose me when you insist that these are serious allegations of misconduct. According to the NCAA? No kidding, they want their pillow gun rulebook to mean something. My hope is that a group of impartial observers sees through this for what it is: institutional corruption.

To @CL82 's point - you don't need to convince me of all people that documentation is important. But as I've learned, some degree of interpretation is inevitable regardless of how precise you think something may be. That's why we're human. Something is always going to be lost in translation, even when we're scanning legal binding's.

Sure, the terms may sound simple. Don't break the rules, keep your money. To the extent that a contract is enforceable when its terms are inseparable from the biased discretion of the people with whom you're negotiating? I have no idea. I'm not a lawyer. I'm inclined to take you and @MadDogRevival 's word, but only begrudgingly. Either the school is purposely omitting prior context that clarifies their agreement or Ollie's agent is the biggest dope on the planet, because there's no way this was the intended consequence of that arrangement.

 

[whaler11]

You didn't answer the question.

I answered it at length three pages ago. No it’s absurd to think that. He’s Calhoun’s #2. Come on.

 

[JMick]

I answered it at length three pages ago. No it’s absurd to think that. He’s Calhoun’s #2. Come on.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me

 

[whaler11]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me

Yeah, the fact there wasn’t a murder in WeHa yesterday.

If I were Miller I’d watch out for Jack Ruby.

 

[Paesano]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me

This is pretty simple. Whaler hates Benedict and Herbst for what he believes is their part in ruining our stellar football program. He wants them to pay, even if it means the entire university suffers. Chief hates Miller for some reason. Everyone that is being intentionally obtuse is due to some grudge they hold versus any loyalty they have or any moral high ground they are trying to claim.

I wish Ollie well and hope he gets the help he needs to be able to hit bottom and start his climb back to happiness. If he is surrounded by smart people, they will guide him toward an assistant coaching position in the NBA. He would be great in that role and could do that well for the rest of his life. But he doesn't deserve 10mill from UConn and I want UConn to win a favorable decision or settlement because that is what is best for the university. It is just that simple.

 

[whaler11]

This is pretty simple. Whaler hates Benedict and Herbst for what he believes is their part in ruining our stellar football program. He wants them to pay, even if it means the entire university suffers. Chief hates Miller for some reason. Everyone that is being intentionally obtuse is due to some grudge they hold versus any loyalty they have or any moral high ground they are trying to claim.

I wish Ollie well and hope he gets the help he needs to be able to hit bottom and start his climb back to happiness. If he is surrounded by smart people, they will guide him toward an assistant coaching position in the NBA. He would be great in that role and could do that well for the rest of his life. But he doesn't deserve 10mill from UConn and I want UConn to win a favorable decision or settlement because that is what is best for the university. It is just that simple.

I do hate Herbst I don’t hide that fact.

That you folks don’t want to hold her accountable for the disaster she created is absurd to me but whatever floats your boat.

You’ll quickly see in the coming years just how much damage she did and how she screwed the university for her own professional gain.

Everyone hates Glen Miller FWIW and those blindly cheering on Herbst and DB are the ones being obtuse (other than the Miller acted alone crowd they aren’t sharp enough to be obtuse - LOL).

 

[August_West]

Chief hates Miller for some reason

Not some reason.

1) 2-3 zone
2) Hes a rat

 

[8893]

Not some reason.

1) 2-3 zone
2) Hes a rat

3) Top button

 

[Paesano]

I do hate Herbst I don’t hide that fact.

That you folks don’t want to hold her accountable for the disaster she created is absurd to me but whatever floats your boat.

You’ll quickly see in the coming years just how much damage she did and how she screwed the university for her own professional gain.

Everyone hates Glen Miller FWIW and those blindly cheering on Herbst and DB are the ones being obtuse (other than the Miller acted alone crowd they aren’t sharp enough to be obtuse - LOL).

I don't like Herbst either. But I don't let that drive me to want something bad to happen to the university to spite her. I will let Karma take care of her.

I don't hate Miller, yet. I guess I am alone in that.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

4) No big men coach
5) No reacharounds

 

[Stainmaster]

Whaler hates Benedict and Herbst for what he believes is their part in ruining our stellar football program.

I think whaler has gone way overboard in wanting to drown the basketball program so that Benedict and Herbst can get their just desserts, but he does have a point. The only reason we are even in this mess is because KO's attorney took Benedict behind the woodshed when negotiating the final extension. Considering this is the second time Benedict put a (relatively) exorbitant buyout into the contract of a coach who washed out, he deserves a lot more ire than he's actually getting.