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Tremont Waters

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Storrs South said:
I'm just not sure 25 MPG is going to do it. I hope I'm wrong, but either way Ollie has a lot of talented guards to keep happy. I really do hope this becomes a very good problem to have.
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Honest question: What other school is going to give him this? He doesn't seem like he's got a lot of good options this late to get those type of minutes. Duke is unlikely to materialize. Kansas has no interest. Indiana the same. He just left Georgetown and it doesn't seem like he's really interested in going back there.

What school has a similar name to UConn could he come in and get 30 minutes of guaranteed playing time as a starter? I'm not seeing it
 
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Storrs South said:
That's the assumption I made. During the 2014 run, the 3 guard lineup was used as a change of pace. In my review of minutes, I assumed as if UConn would have to run a 3 guard lineup for an entire game. Then and only then do I think Ollie can retain the 3 guards he has and convince Tremont to come to UConn, but like I said this is just me speculating. Who knows maybe Ollie can convince Tremont to play 23.8 MPG like Shabazz did his Freshman year or 23.3 MPG like Jalen Adam's Freshman Year. That would make things a lot easier to sort through and keep everyone happy.
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I think you are right that we will be going to a exclusive 3 guard lineup if we get TW.
 
Storrs South said:
I've said elsewhere that as far as I know AG is staying, but from what I've heard KO needs to keep him happy especially since he was an McDonald's All-American and "needs to be treated as such"

I agree the minutes are there, but a couple things are going to have to happen for this to work (pure speculation by the way)

1) Duke can't get involved (hopefully they get Duval)
2) They can convince Tremont there are 30 minutes here for him, which...
3) there is if Vital (who was 28 MPG last season) is OK with 20-23 min

I make that last assessment based on sharpie Jalen in for 35 MPG, Alterique for 30-35 MPG leaving some minutes between those two positions plus 40 min at that 3rd guard spot. If Ollie can make this pitch to the combo of AG, CV, and TW that he will manage the minutes as such and they buy into it, we could have something special on our hands.
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This is what I find so bizarre. Kemba didn't play any 30 minutes a game as a freshman. Yet he still made the all rookie team. There was a time when many freshmen didn't expect to play much at all. We aren't playing 3 guards for the whole game, or even half of it on most nights. There's a total of about 100 minutes to go around, give or take.

What Waters should be thinking about is that UConn is known for running a 2 PG offense, and that Adams is likely gone after this year. That leaves him and Gilbert running the show and getting plenty of time. He also has a chance to simply beat out Gilbert or that Gilbert will injure himself again (or be limited in time due to injury).
 
3rdbass said:
I think you are right that we will be going to a exclusive 3 guard lineup if we get TW.
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No chance. Not with small guards. Larrier and Polley will see minutes at the 3.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
This is what I find so bizarre. Kemba didn't play any 30 minutes a game as a freshman. Yet he still made the all rookie team. There was a time when many freshmen didn't expect to play much at all. We aren't playing 3 guards for the whole game, or even half of it on most nights. There's a total of about 100 minutes to go around, give or take.

What Waters should be thinking about is that UConn is known for running a 2 PG offense, and that Adams is likely gone after this year. That leaves him and Gilbert running the show and getting plenty of time. He also has a chance to simply beat out Gilbert or that Gilbert will injure himself again (or be limited in time due to injury).
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I agree 100%, but I think when you consider the conference situation, performance last season, and current recruiting situation I'm taking a very conservative approach in estimating what it will take to land Tremont Waters. I Bleed Blue but the guy I talk to a lot on the recruiting scene just from their personal opinion (not from talking to Tremont) doesn't think 25 MPG will be enough. It's just someone opining and as others have mentioned with him backing away from Georgetown, Kansas not being interested, Duke likely getting Duval, Indiana IDK, Ollie could land on 25 MPG which would be much easier to accommodate.
 
Jalen does have the length to guard college 3s, FYI. His wingspan isn't far from what DHam's was. I'd expect a heavy dose of 3 guard lineups no matter what.

Considering that injuries happen so frequently and players miss time, each of these 4 guards averaging 25-30 MPG is definitely feasible. But I think that winning would cure most of those type of complaints as is.
 
HuskyHawk said:
No chance. Not with small guards. Larrier and Polley will see minutes at the 3.
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We started with RP at SF last year, I know bigger, and we can still pick up a bigger SG, like the one from OSU. I'm not sold that Polley will see alot of minutes next year as he still seems to be a little bit removed talent wise from starting for us. Unfortunately we will have to play small with the talent we have on board. We will be fine with a smaller guard at the SF. I'm sure we will play some zone to help offset it when we are getting abused by a bigger player. I just don't see TW coming here unless we are going to play a lot of 3 guard lineups.
 
walker11 said:
Ugh. Tell me the elite programs recruiting him to start.
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Duke, obviously.

Seriously, he'll have his chances to play big minutes at UConn. We'll play a ton of 3-guard lineups.
 
Storrs South said:
I agree 100%, but I think when you consider the conference situation, performance last season, and current recruiting situation I'm taking a very conservative approach in estimating what it will take to land Tremont Waters. I Bleed Blue but the guy I talk to a lot on the recruiting scene just from their personal opinion (not from talking to Tremont) doesn't think 25 MPG will be enough. It's just someone opining and as others have mentioned with him backing away from Georgetown, Kansas not being interested, Duke likely getting Duval, Indiana IDK, Ollie could land on 25 MPG which would be much easier to accommodate.
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Stupid is always possible. But if you're picking your team -- or your advisors are -- based on your calculation of how many minutes a game you will get beyond will I or won't I get time on the court regularly at all -- you really are a lunatic. You don't know yet how well you will adjust to college and college ball, you don't know what last minute arrivals and departures of players will occur, you don't know who will be hurt, who will be better than expected and who will be worse than expected. Plus, no coach can be any good without looking at what you have in October and early NOvember and only committing to even a tentative design on what your team will look like then.

It's a fantasy if you think you know you will get 20 minutes at UConn versus 25 at Providence. If you're that smart don't waste time practicing basketball and just move to Vegas.
 
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3rdbass said:
We started with RP at SF last year, I know bigger, and we can still pick up a bigger SG, like the one from OSU. I'm not sold that Polley will see alot of minutes next year as he still seems to be a little bit removed talent wise from starting for us. Unfortunately we will have to play small with the talent we have on board. We will be fine with a smaller guard at the SF. I'm sure we will play some zone to help offset it when we are getting abused by a bigger player. I just don't see TW coming here unless we are going to play a lot of 3 guard lineups.
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Much depends on if we can land another Big, and what we see from Cobb and Diarra. I don't think we really want Larrier at the 4 more than 10 minutes a game. We might have to. Polley is a 4* just like Waters (yes, lower down in the rankings, whatever those are worth) and will absolutely play if he can defend. I think he's going to surprise people, and is probably underrated.
 
HuskyHawk said:
This is what I find so bizarre. Kemba didn't play any 30 minutes a game as a freshman. Yet he still made the all rookie team. There was a time when many freshmen didn't expect to play much at all. We aren't playing 3 guards for the whole game, or even half of it on most nights. There's a total of about 100 minutes to go around, give or take.
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People will tolerate more to win and be a part of a winning program. Simple as that. Kemba's freshman team was a F4 team that went 27-3 in regular season Big East play. Top 50 freshman aren't going to want to sit on the bench of a middle of the pack AAC team.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Much depends on if we can land another Big, and what we see from Cobb and Diarra. I don't think we really want Larrier at the 4 more than 10 minutes a game. We might have to. Polley is a 4* just like Waters (yes, lower down in the rankings, whatever those are worth) and will absolutely play if he can defend. I think he's going to surprise people, and is probably underrated.
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I'm wondering why so many fans are obsessed with a tradition lineup consisting of having a bruiser at the PF position in college basketball. Even in the pros there are mostly tall guys that play outside at the 4. We will be fine with TL at the PF and we have Diarra and Polley to back him up there if needed. I'm most worried about is the center position. We do need someone who can rebound and right now I don't think we have that on the team or people that we are looking at as grad transfers.
 
auror said:
People will tolerate more to win and be a part of a winning program. Simple as that. Kemba's freshman team was a F4 team that went 27-3 in regular season Big East play. Top 50 freshman aren't going to want to sit on the bench of a middle of the pack AAC team.
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If you have yourself stuck on the bench as a freshman on a middle of the pack AAC team, you weren't near being one of the 50 best freshmen in the country. If you were, the coach would find minutes for you.
 
3rdbass said:
I'm wondering why so many fans are obsessed with a tradition lineup consisting of having a bruiser at the PF position in college basketball. Even in the pros there are mostly tall guys that play outside at the 4. We will be fine with TL at the PF and we have Diarra and Polley to back him up there if needed. Now center is the position I'm most worried about. We do need someone who can rebound and right now I don't think we have that on the team or people that we are looking at as grad transfers.
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It's a better question if you look at the 4s we've won championships with. They were Kevin Freeman, Josh Boone, Roscoe Smith and Deandre Daniels. Boone was a bruiser -- an old style 4. The other three viewed themselves as perimeter forwards and would have loved to have spent more time hanging out at the 3 point line if the coaches would have let them. As did, to varying degrees, Nadav and Donyell.
 
3rdbass said:
I'm wondering why so many fans are obsessed with a tradition lineup consisting of having a bruiser at the PF position in college basketball. Even in the pros there are mostly tall guys that play outside at the 4. We will be fine with TL at the PF and we have Diarra and Polley to back him up there if needed. I'm most worried about is the center position. We do need someone who can rebound and right now I don't think we have that on the team or people that we are looking at as grad transfers.
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Along these lines, why not think of it as us imposing a matchup problem on the other team and forcing them to adapt, if we have 3 guys who can break you down off the dribble, plus a lengthy, triple threat guy at the 4?

For all that we talk about JC's teams imposing their will during a game, lately our MO has been to sit back and wait to get punched in the mouth and then adapt. We should be the aggressor.
 
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Tenspro2002 said:
Along these lines, why not think of it as us imposing a matchup problem on the other team and forcing them to adapt, if we have 3 guys who can break you down off the dribble, plus a lengthy, triple threat guy at the 4?

For all that we talk about JC's teams imposing their will during a game, lately our MO has been to sit back and wait to get punched in the mouth and then adapt. We should be the aggressor.
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I agree! It would be great to have 4 really good offensive players who can dish and shoot on the floor at the same time.
 
businesslawyer said:
It's a better question if you look at the 4s we've won championships with. They were Kevin Freeman, Josh Boone, Roscoe Smith and Deandre Daniels. Boone was a bruiser -- an old style 4. The other three viewed themselves as perimeter forwards and would have loved to have spent more time hanging out at the 3 point line if the coaches would have let them. As did, to varying degrees, Nadav and Donyell.
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To be fair, we also had great success with CV/Boone or Boone/Armstrong at the 4, as well as Jeff Adrien, guys whose game was largely confined to the paint.

But I agree that trends in basketball have moved away from that towards the Roscoe/DD type of 4, something that JC was stubborn/slow to adapt to. KO was forced into it by circumstances, to great early success, though I think at this point it largely fits the style he wants to run. One of the best players of the KO era was Shonn Miller, who I think is the perfect college 4. Intelligent and crafty around the rim, can rebound, but can also shoot from the perimeter.
 
businesslawyer said:
If you have yourself stuck on the bench as a freshman on a middle of the pack AAC team, you weren't near being one of the 50 best freshmen in the country. If you were, the coach would find minutes for you.
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The threshold we were discussing was 30+ minutes per game, a bit more than finding minutes for you. It's basically getting starter minutes. Which depending on the situation, might not be possible for a freshman in a stacked position if the lineup has deficiencies elsewhere. Which is exactly UConn's situation. Which is why most recruits would balk at committing to a situation like that. Which is presumably one of the unsaid reasons MAL decommitted and is what might still keep Waters from coming.
 
As long as it seems possible Adams goes pro after next season, is it that unrealistic to think Waters can live with playing 20 mins a game on a team with an outstanding backcourt, and be a starter in his second season with high responsibility in running the offense?

Like to me, Ollie can talk about the history of guards at our school, Kemba did it as a freshman, Shabazz did it backing up Kemba and playing side by side a little, Boatright did it with Shabazz, and on and on down the list.

Waters is 5'9", so I don't think he's planning on going pro after his freshman year, so you play on a great stable of guards, practice against guys more seasoned and as talented as you, and then you do the same for another great guard when you're a junior/senior
 
auror said:
The threshold we were discussing was 30+ minutes per game, a bit more than finding minutes for you. It's basically getting starter minutes. Which depending on the situation, might not be possible for a freshman in a stacked position if the lineup has deficiencies elsewhere. Which is exactly UConn's situation. Which is why most recruits would balk at committing to a situation like that. Which is presumably one of the unsaid reasons MAL decommitted and is what might still keep Waters from coming.
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No. There are just too many uncertainties to rationally think you can make that kind of calculation. Nova started four short guards at one point, because those were Wright's four best players. MAL/Waters doesn't think they can be one of our four best players? MAl/Waters doesn't think they can beat out Vitale for minutes? Why? If they are worried about Adams being in front of them for, most likely, one more year, then what? What good school are they going to where even if they say a way to the floor on year one they don't know a better guard will come in in year two?
 
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businesslawyer said:
I look at it more as 27 years of great Karma being balanced all at once. But if we're no longer in the karma surplus category, I'll take it.

This fanbase is unaccustomed to the fact that sometimes in life things just go wrong. KO's first five years in total have been mixed, and maybe overall somewhat disappointing, but I would assume he still has plenty of rope left. We now have an unexpected roster rebuilding job, but whether the roster rebuilding is expected or unexpected or necessary or unnecessary, some times it has to happen.

Let's fill the slots and go on from there.
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New cycle. I'm confirming it!
 
businesslawyer said:
It's a better question if you look at the 4s we've won championships with. They were Kevin Freeman, Josh Boone, Roscoe Smith and Deandre Daniels. Boone was a bruiser -- an old style 4. The other three viewed themselves as perimeter forwards and would have loved to have spent more time hanging out at the 3 point line if the coaches would have let them. As did, to varying degrees, Nadav and Donyell.
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Freeman was not a perimeter player by any stretch of the imagination. He could step out and hit a mid-range jumper, but so could Karl Malone. Daniels was, but was also a great interior shotblocker. Smith was a great rebounder and though slight of build, didn't have much of a perimeter game or handle really. But you could argue Alex Oriakhi was the PF on that team anyway. Didn't Charlie play as much as Boone at PF? Better example of your point too.

I'll agree you can use versatile players and win at the college level. But I think you need a strong defending and rebounding center to get away with a 4 that floats to the perimeter. It also helps if you have big guards to make up for it. Larrier is going to take his 3's, you can count on that. We will have to see how this evolves.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Much depends on if we can land another Big, and what we see from Cobb and Diarra. I don't think we really want Larrier at the 4 more than 10 minutes a game. We might have to. Polley is a 4* just like Waters (yes, lower down in the rankings, whatever those are worth) and will absolutely play if he can defend. I think he's going to surprise people, and is probably underrated.
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I don't mind Larrier as a Stretch 4. Quick, perimeter-focused lineup. Pressure the ball. It's Villanova's model.
 
Ok im going to tell you guys ONE MORE TIME TW will go NOWHERE he is not starting from DAY 1 !!! Post all the opinions on that you want you heard it hear FIRST! Time to move on
 
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