Transfer Stats - Jackson, Durham & Enoch

[CL82]

I've come to the realization that the difference between his first two year and the remainder of his tenure is simple.
BAZZ.
Bazz brought the energy.
Bazz brought the tenacity.
Bazz brought everything.
KO watched.

I don't how much energy we should throw into critiquing our old coach when it is so much fun watching the new one, but I'll throw my two cents in. It may be as simple as Ollie was a good motivator with skilled kids but not a great developer of talent. I definitely think KO's personal life played a role as did his desire to be own his guy, but in the end I suspect the biggest factor was he expected guys to complete players who knew what was needed to be ready for the season. That's not the college game.

 

[mauconnfan]

Vance came to Ollie begging for him to coach him up and to develop his game and Ollie just told him to get in the gym. Enoch and Vance are both better because they are now being coached.

If it was truly that bad then so be it. Can't believe it to the detail but it sounds ugly. I'm not sure vance is better we know he could occasionally put up a high number he can shoot. I watch the video he's the same kid with no clue he needs to defend someone so he's not getting coached again. Enoch was bound to be better by the time he was 20 just because of size and maturity. I haven't seen him play as I said so again, no clue if he's defending anyone like he didn't here. But happy for him to get time and some numbers. Both are 2 years older and both lacked any accountability on their own. No matter if you want help form your coach he better step in the "gym" with you and work on things because that's what you want to hear from a kid.

 

[mauconnfan]

You realize those aren't considered his players. Just like the players when he was coaching aren't considered Killings and Ricky Moore's players.

Guessing he was coaching them while being an assistant no? He was there go to guy, certainly Boat because JC was tough on Boat so on the side, after practice I bet KO was their guy. You guys can fight the fact he had a chance to be a very good coach, proved it for a couple of years no doubt but then got lost somewhere between the divorce and recruiting requirements. Shame on him for not being able to separate the issues at hand but he proved he could "coach." What I now believe is he coached kids who really wanted to listen, who really wanted to get better and work with him like Bazz, Boat, Giffey, Deandre, Nolan etc etc make them even better. But he wasn't very good at getting through to the tough personality assignments like Vance and Steve who didn't seem to have the passion to work on what they needed to. Problem is that's the higher % of kids now so not good for him in that case. That would obviously not translate to being very successful as a HC at a major program as he proved.

But he could coach the kids who stayed and did, no denying that ever!

 

[jibsey]

Vance came to Ollie begging for him to coach him up and to develop his game and Ollie just told him to get in the gym. Enoch and Vance are both better because they are now being coached.

People have taken their position on these 2 players and neither side will be convinced. And they certainly have their liabilities. I don't even think that the results trickling in this year on them will change that. I don't like a thread that is going to remind us of 18 points and 10 boards and such as the year goes on especially with our deficiency in this area. Guess I shouldn't click it.

 

[businesslawyer]

Yes I do and I'll tell you why. The year before after we were waited for Brimah's magical summer transformation that never happened he never gave Enoch the floor time to develop. Hurley would know how to handle Vance I believe. Players transfer because they don't get enough playing time and don't see themselves in the future getting it. So I fault KO for not developing both players.

You're in a hole. Please stop digging. For all Brimah's flaws and inability to develop, if you didn't see a huge drop off in Enoch's two years here when he came in for Brimah you weren't watching. Plus, Brimah's biggest flaw his last year was limiting his own minutes by getting in foul trouble. Enoch's problem was he couldn't even take all the minutes Brimah left available by being in foul trouble because he would either immediately get in foul trouble himself or he would be so bad you wished he got in foul trouble.

Again, wondering if KO and the staff failed in developing him -- and if others could have done better -- is perfectly fair, if ultimately unknowable. But thinking he should have had more minutes his first two years here is just dead wrong.

 

[upstater]

Of course coaches sometimes play the more upside younger player over the older player who might give him the better chance of winning at the moment but doesn't give him the better chance later in the season, it happens all the time. Ollie's handling of Vance and Enoch was horrendous. Vance came to him in the offseason and was begging to be coached and Ollie made it clear he had no interest in coaching him.

Examples please. Teams need to get to the tourney and win games (For the record, I was for playing Brimah his senior year because--as inept as he was offensively--he was worlds better on defense.) I mean, you let the entire team down when you're a big man sieve in the middle. You let the guards down, you let the wings down. Can't have it.

Like I said, Calhoun had trouble with parents too.

 

[upstater]

You realize those aren't considered his players. Just like the players when he was coaching aren't considered Killings and Ricky Moore's players.

It's so silly of you to believe a guy that played under him for 3 years, and who developed under him, isn't his player, especially when that kid -- Boatright -- wasn't exactly ranked higher than any of his other recruits.

 

[upstater]

These were decisions about development, where the team was and where they would ultimately end up. KO lost the parents, the players and the team. As the numbers for Enoch and Vance continue to come in this year it will become more apparent that those players were not handled correctly because they were trashed for being crappy players on their way out.

Who trashed Vance? I didn't read it. Steve was trashed because of his lack of defense. That being said, this is Steve's 4th year in college ball. Hopefully he has developed, but then you'd expect that too. Even Nolan developed somewhat.

 

[upstater]

Nolan improved marginally. Boatright's greatest improvements occurred when Shabazz was here with him, though he tightened up his mechanics a bit on his jump shot prior to his senior season.

The overall point is that Ollie was overwhelmed when presented with all of the aspects of running a major college basketball program together. That includes recruiting (i.e. identifying and selling the program to players), building a roster (i.e. filling needs and recruiting to a system and style of play), player development, player management, game-planning, in-game rotation management, and overall game management. Once he had to do all of those things and didn't have guys that came up in the previous administration, the wheels came off pretty quickly.

Just about every program in the country finds a way for inexperienced players to contribute while masking and developing the gaps in their respective games. Ollie failed to do that, and in the process alienated some of his best players.

Boatright carried the team his senior year, he had a great improvement. In fact, he received kudos nationally for his play. There was a night and day difference between Boat his sophomore year and Boat his senior year. The difference was dramatic, not marginal.

 

[superjohn]

Examples please. Teams need to get to the tourney and win games (For the record, I was for playing Brimah his senior year because--as inept as he was offensively--he was worlds better on defense.) I mean, you let the entire team down when you're a big man sieve in the middle. You let the guards down, you let the wings down. Can't have it.

Like I said, Calhoun had trouble with parents too.

Ed Cooley yesterday. He says he's playing his freshman all the minutes now knowing there will be major pains in November but more likelihood for rewards in March. It happens all the time.

 

[superjohn]

Boatright carried the team his senior year, he had a great improvement. In fact, he received kudos nationally for his play. There was a night and day difference between Boat his sophomore year and Boat his senior year. The difference was dramatic, not marginal.

Boatright carried the team (non tournament team) because Bazz was gone and it was now his team. He was finally the man and given the keys, his numbers went up slightly from his sophomore year. The best ball Boatright played here was in the tourny his junior year.

 

[upstater]

Ed Cooley yesterday. He says he's playing his freshman all the minutes now knowing there will be major pains in November but more likelihood for rewards in March. It happens all the time.

I'll say it again (though I've said it numerous times) when you play a big man and he is offering no resistance, you are not only squandering the abilities of your older big men, but of the entire team. When big men play matador D and the opposing guards are getting to the hoop at will for layups, you're killing every single other player on the team--including the young guys, like Jalen Adams, like Vance. That's what hurts when a big guy can't pay defense.

And for the record, Steven got plenty of minutes early that year, 8 straight games into the conference season when he had 17, 12, 8, 16, 11, 22, 22, 18, 22 against Oklahoma st, Oregon, Boston U, Syracuse, Ohio St, N Florida, Auburn, Houston. It was only after the Houston game that he saw his minutes decline, and anyone who was at that Houston game at the XL can vouch for the way that Houston paraded to the hoops for layup after layup. It was pretty sickening. Blame Ollie for that, blame him for not helping Steven get a better grasp of the defense, but don't blame him for playing a guy in Brimah who was actually much better at D.

 

[upstater]

Boatright carried the team (non tournament team) because Bazz was gone and it was now his team. He was finally the man and given the keys, his numbers went up slightly from his sophomore year. The best ball Boatright played here was in the tourny his junior year.

Boatright improved greatly that year, no matter how much you deny it.

 

[Towney007]

If these guys all improved and we were still that bad, then that's something else.

 

[superjohn]

Boatright improved greatly that year, no matter how much you deny it.

Boatright- Sophomore stats- 15.4 ppg, 4.4 assists, 3 turnovers, 3 rebounds, 1.5 steals, strength of schedule 7.42.
Senior stats- 17.4 ppg, 3.8 assists, 2.4 turnovers, 4 rebounds, 1.4 steals, strength of schedule 4.22.

 

[MDHuskFan]

Boatright- Sophomore stats- 15.4 ppg, 4.4 assists, 3 turnovers, 3 rebounds, 1.5 steals, strength of schedule 7.42.
Senior stats- 17.4 ppg, 3.8 assists, 2.4 turnovers, 4 rebounds, 1.4 steals, strength of schedule 4.22.

Don’t use stats to support your argument. That’s against boneyard rules

 

[upstater]

Don’t use stats to support your argument. That’s against boneyard rules

OK you guys are right, Boatright didn't improve!! All because of Ollie.

 

[Towney007]

He was in over his head.

Tactically, is 'offensive' sets were over the heads of the kids he was playing. Worse yet, he'd keep on doing it even when it wasn't working. I can count on two hands the times I saw them run half court offense and the team was actively not pushing the ball. Defensively, they were pretty good, so I can't fault him there.

His recruiting was lazy. And at times neglected.

Yes, transfers happen everywhere, but not to core guy you just got done fighting recruiting battles in order to get. Maybe Jackson's dad was a , but how do you not figure this out during recruiting? Did he not see how green Enoch was when he recruited him? Every year from 2015-on was more and more duct tape - and even crazier than that - he didn't have as many scholarships to have to use. There's literally no excuse.

Rumors of the issues on the staff, staff turnover, poor strength and conditioning - he was pretty bad there.

He alienated a lot of alumni and especially Jim Calhoun.

And administratively he was just sloppy. The NCAA violations were sloppy, lazy violations. But again - that's how everything else in the program was treated. He was coasting or trying to. Or was just clueless as to the approach he should take.

I've met Ollie before and my take for a while now is he's just an NBA guy who's not built for the college level. He's the kind of grizzled vet that puts his arm around the rookies and teaches them where to go an eat on the road, helps them buy their first suit, etc. He's Drunk Uncle Kevin - and in the pros - that's a good thing. In college, you need more of a father figure - there was alot of talk of Ollie being too buddy buddy with certain guys and less so with others.. it all kind of sings to that.

Coaching in the NBA is pretty seamless in that you prepare for games, coach guys, meet with your GM and you can be selective every year about what you're bringing in and out of your organization. College is different, there's a lot more administrative BS, there's alums to deal with and kids with a fraction of the talent who take a lot more hands-on care. It's a more comprehensive job.

Then you watch guys this year with this coach, and go elsewhere and work with other coaches and, well... I mean how people just don't see the trend or the common denominator here is absolutely, completely beyond me.

I think it started off as just not being prepared for that kind of responsibility and as things wore on, it got worse and worse - and more obvious that he wasn't ready for that kind of a program. That's why he doesn't have a job. But he was bad at almost every single aspect of being a college head coach at a program this size.

 

[superjohn]

Don’t use stats to support your argument. That’s against boneyard rules

I'm not going to go through every coach who may sacrifice november results for the chance at march rewards because when upstater is dug in on a silly point he will defend the silly point to the death. He says Boatright was night and day his senior year compared to his sophomore year so providing stats showing he was just slightly better will have no effect.

Oh wow looks like he actually tapped out, that's a first.

 

[businesslawyer]

Ed Cooley yesterday. He says he's playing his freshman all the minutes now knowing there will be major pains in November but more likelihood for rewards in March. It happens all the time.

I agree that you might play a young'un who is marginally worse in November to be better in March. The problem with you citing any broad statement like that in support of your point is that Enoch was not marginally worse. He was a total disaster when on the court.

 

[Towney007]

I agree that you might play a young'un who is marginally worse in November to be better in March. The problem with you citing any broad statement like that in support of your point is that Enoch was not marginally worse. He was a total disaster when on the court.

Enoch was a terrible player.

But again - he wasn't going to get better here. Ollie wasn't up to the task and Enoch wasted zero time figuring that out and getting himself into a better situation. Which he did.

 

[Whtdmd]

KO is great with mature players. Look at how much Miller, Gibbs and Purvis love him. He told Rodney during the 14-15 yr that his route to the NBA is via being a defense stopper. Rodney got into the NBA because of his attitude and defense. Now I dont know why people are thinking that Enoch is the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain. He is the 3rd leading scorer in a Louiville team that is beating up on Nichols, Southern and Vermont. He got 3 fouls in 13 minutes vs Southern, 3 rebounds against VM in 25 minutes. Remember, SE tried to transfer during November 2016 and was talked out of it. He never tried hard in his time at UCONN

 

[businesslawyer]

Enoch was a terrible player.

But again - he wasn't going to get better here. Ollie wasn't up to the task and Enoch wasted zero time figuring that out and getting himself into a better situation. Which he did.

Not defending KO's coaching (except as specified in a minute). Not criticizing Enoch for leaving. Not rooting against the young man.

Just saying that any comment that KO is subject to criticism for not playing Enoch more is absurd.

 

[tcf15]

KO is great with mature players. Look at how much Miller, Gibbs and Purvis love him. He told Rodney during the 14-15 yr that his route to the NBA is via being a defense stopper. Rodney got into the NBA because of his attitude and defense. Now I dont know why people are thinking that Enoch is the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain. He is the 3rd leading scorer in a Louiville team that is beating up on Nichols, Southern and Vermont. He got 3 fouls in 13 minutes vs Southern, 3 rebounds against VM in 25 minutes. Remember, SE tried to transfer during November 2016 and was talked out of it. He never tried hard in his time at UCONN

Not sure why you keep ignoring his scoring stats. He is averaging 20 minutes per game and 14 points per game and hitting 88% of his FTs.

 

[JMick]

Not sure why you keep ignoring his scoring stats. He is averaging 20 minutes per game and 14 points per game and hitting 88% of his FTs.

Because that doesn't fit his narrative. He's a St John's loser who pretends to be a doctor even though he can't string a coherent sentence together.