Transfer Stats - Jackson, Durham & Enoch

[UConnKev]

My Aggies humbled the traitor Pauly Weir and Vance.

 

[Towney007]

Boat
Daniels
Giffey

I can't think of anyone else.

I really kind of hate the 'he had Calhoun's players' argument... but.

Once we were through the Calhoun/Ollie cross over window period. It was a flipping grade-A nuclear disaster.

There was no one *Ollie* recruited that improved measurably under *Ollie.* After the NC, it was a pretty quick, precipitous drop off and nearly everyone who he brought in with credibility/talent did well elsewhere - either in the G-League or at another program.

Just kinda plateau after plateau.

Again, I appreciate Ollie's contributions as a player. I'll always appreciate and love the 2014 run - of which he was a huge part of - but outside of that - he was a really bad coach. I'd be all about saying 'he led us out of our darkest period' when in reality, it led us into it.

Again while it's fun to watch these guys from afar I guess - they'd have been terrible here under him. Same with Akinjo. Maybe i'm just salty late at night and need to go to bed, but talking about them in any sort of sense like they were lost opportunities is kind of silly.

 

[upstater]

I really kind of hate the 'he had Calhoun's players' argument... but.

Once we were through the Calhoun/Ollie cross over window period. It was a flipping grade-A nuclear disaster.

There was no one *Ollie* recruited that improved measurably under *Ollie.* After the NC, it was a pretty quick, precipitous drop off and nearly everyone who he brought in with credibility/talent did well elsewhere - either in the G-League or at another program.

Just kinda plateau after plateau.

Again, I appreciate Ollie's contributions as a player. I'll always appreciate and love the 2014 run - of which he was a huge part of - but outside of that - he was a really bad coach. I'd be all about saying 'he led us out of our darkest period' when in reality, it led us into it.

Again while it's fun to watch these guys from afar I guess - they'd have been terrible here under him. Same with Akinjo. Maybe i'm just salty late at night and need to go to bed, but talking about them in any sort of sense like they were lost opportunities is kind of silly.

You realize Ollie recruited players as an assistant, right? I mean, Boatright played 3 years for him. Players like Nolan and Boatright improved.

 

[WrenchFan69]

Those jerseys are great

 

[jibsey]

Enoch and Vance are going to be a stone in our shoe all season long I think someone said. KO did not see where the future of our team was as he was trying to win a national championship. Since he recruited these guys he must have seen something in them at one time. Vance’s father wanted him to be more of a focus on offense and KO must have just burned him off, That was a management skill that ultimately lost us a player we currently need.

 

[upstater]

Enoch and Vance are going to be a stone in our shoe all season long I think someone said. KO did not see where the future of our team was as he was trying to win a national championship. Since he recruited these guys he must have seen something in them at one time. Vance’s father wanted him to be more of a focus on offense and KO must have just burned him off, That was a management skill that ultimately lost us a player we currently need.

Do you really believe there are coaches that throw underprepared players out there and take losses that should be wins? Everyone goes for wins. As for losing Vance's father, this happens at every single school. It happened to Calhoun as well. There are a great many things to get on Ollie about, but I have to say that I would be disappointed if Hurley is not trying to win every game with his best lineup, or if he's kowtowing to a parent. There is nothing worse for team morale than that.

 

[mauconnfan]

In tcf's video Vance makes an appearance right around the 2 minute mark. He mad a sweetass spin move down the lane for a layup.

Anyway...his team lost.

Watch the highlights when the other team has the ball watch his defense it's the same guy on that end. No doubt he could score the ball and shoot it but he wouldn't see the court for Dan Hurley with his effort on the other end.

 

[Excalibur]

Watch the highlights when the other team has the ball watch his defense it's the same guy on that end. No doubt he could score the ball and shoot it but he wouldn't see the court for Dan Hurley with his effort on the other end.

He would not have survived under Hurley for sure. It did look like he's tightened up his handle a bit.

 

[Excalibur]

You realize Ollie recruited players as an assistant, right? I mean, Boatright played 3 years for him. Players like Nolan and Boatright improved.

Nolan improved marginally. Boatright's greatest improvements occurred when Shabazz was here with him, though he tightened up his mechanics a bit on his jump shot prior to his senior season.

The overall point is that Ollie was overwhelmed when presented with all of the aspects of running a major college basketball program together. That includes recruiting (i.e. identifying and selling the program to players), building a roster (i.e. filling needs and recruiting to a system and style of play), player development, player management, game-planning, in-game rotation management, and overall game management. Once he had to do all of those things and didn't have guys that came up in the previous administration, the wheels came off pretty quickly.

Just about every program in the country finds a way for inexperienced players to contribute while masking and developing the gaps in their respective games. Ollie failed to do that, and in the process alienated some of his best players.

 

[jibsey]

Do you really believe there are coaches that throw underprepared players out there and take losses that should be wins? Everyone goes for wins. As for losing Vance's father, this happens at every single school. It happened to Calhoun as well. There are a great many things to get on Ollie about, but I have to say that I would be disappointed if Hurley is not trying to win every game with his best lineup, or if he's kowtowing to a parent. There is nothing worse for team morale than that.

These were decisions about development, where the team was and where they would ultimately end up. KO lost the parents, the players and the team. As the numbers for Enoch and Vance continue to come in this year it will become more apparent that those players were not handled correctly because they were trashed for being crappy players on their way out.

 

[businesslawyer]

Enoch and Vance are going to be a stone in our shoe all season long I think someone said. KO did not see where the future of our team was as he was trying to win a national championship. Since he recruited these guys he must have seen something in them at one time. Vance’s father wanted him to be more of a focus on offense and KO must have just burned him off, That was a management skill that ultimately lost us a player we currently need.

Vance would not fit in with Hurley for one second. Enoch got the playing time he deserved. You can't play people who are killing you when they're out there just because they have potential. Same with Durham, only less KO's fault, because the young man should have had the sense to recognize he wasn't ready to be playing at all.

I have no problem following these young men's careers out of curiosity. And you want to criticize KO for not developing Enoch enough, fine. But not playing him enough? Please stop.

 

[superjohn]

You realize Ollie recruited players as an assistant, right? I mean, Boatright played 3 years for him. Players like Nolan and Boatright improved.

You realize those aren't considered his players. Just like the players when he was coaching aren't considered Killings and Ricky Moore's players.

 

[jibsey]

Yes I do and I'll tell you why. The year before after we were waited for Brimah's magical summer transformation that never happened he never gave Enoch the floor time to develop. Hurley would know how to handle Vance I believe. Players transfer because they don't get enough playing time and don't see themselves in the future getting it. So I fault KO for not developing both players.

 

[superjohn]

Do you really believe there are coaches that throw underprepared players out there and take losses that should be wins? Everyone goes for wins. As for losing Vance's father, this happens at every single school. It happened to Calhoun as well. There are a great many things to get on Ollie about, but I have to say that I would be disappointed if Hurley is not trying to win every game with his best lineup, or if he's kowtowing to a parent. There is nothing worse for team morale than that.

Of course coaches sometimes play the more upside younger player over the older player who might give him the better chance of winning at the moment but doesn't give him the better chance later in the season, it happens all the time. Ollie's handling of Vance and Enoch was horrendous. Vance came to him in the offseason and was begging to be coached and Ollie made it clear he had no interest in coaching him.

 

[mauconnfan]

Of course coaches sometimes play the more upside younger player over the older player who might give him the better chance of winning at the moment but doesn't give him the better chance later in the season, it happens all the time. Ollie's handling of Vance and Enoch was horrendous. Vance came to him in the offseason and was begging to be coached and Ollie made it clear he had no interest in coaching him.

Sorry can't believe he said he had no interest in coaching him. We can all agree that he wasn't a very good coach in the last 2-3 years, not the same guy but there is no chance I would believe he ever said that to him even with his father being a d**k. And his handling of Enoch as far as playing time wasn't wrong but maybe his coaching was off. Nonetheless Enoch was not a very good player at UConn and much of that was on him as a player so he can share in not being a successful Husky. He's better because of a year off and maybe finally listening. What we don't know about him besides his scoring is if he's any good on defense or is he the same dreadful defender who can now score a little?

 

[Milo65]

I've come to the realization that the difference between his first two year and the remainder of his tenure is simple.
BAZZ.
Bazz brought the energy.
Bazz brought the tenacity.
Bazz brought everything.
KO watched.

I would also argue that Calhoun was still a big part of the program and provided guidance to Ollie. After the NC, Ollie tossed coach aside like an old sock.

 

[superjohn]

Sorry can't believe he said he had no interest in coaching him. We can all agree that he wasn't a very good coach in the last 2-3 years, not the same guy but there is no chance I would believe he ever said that to him even with his father being a d**k. And his handling of Enoch as far as playing time wasn't wrong but maybe his coaching was off. Nonetheless Enoch was not a very good player at UConn and much of that was on him as a player so he can share in not being a successful Husky. He's better because of a year off and maybe finally listening. What we don't know about him besides his scoring is if he's any good on defense or is he the same dreadful defender who can now score a little?

Vance came to Ollie begging for him to coach him up and to develop his game and Ollie just told him to get in the gym. Enoch and Vance are both better because they are now being coached.

 

[CL82]

Always said that in a perfect world, Enoch would've done a fifth year of prep, then redshirted a year.

Oh well. World hasn't been perfect around here for a good long while.

Are we done with early LOIs?

(I think I know answer, but hope springs eternal.)

 

[CL82]

I've come to the realization that the difference between his first two year and the remainder of his tenure is simple.
BAZZ.
Bazz brought the energy.
Bazz brought the tenacity.
Bazz brought everything.
KO watched.

I don't how much energy we should throw into critiquing our old coach when it is so much fun watching the new one, but I'll throw my two cents in. It may be as simple as Ollie was a good motivator with skilled kids but not a great developer of talent. I definitely think KO's personal life played a role as did his desire to be own his guy, but in the end I suspect the biggest factor was he expected guys to complete players who knew what was needed to be ready for the season. That's not the college game.

 

[mauconnfan]

Vance came to Ollie begging for him to coach him up and to develop his game and Ollie just told him to get in the gym. Enoch and Vance are both better because they are now being coached.

If it was truly that bad then so be it. Can't believe it to the detail but it sounds ugly. I'm not sure vance is better we know he could occasionally put up a high number he can shoot. I watch the video he's the same kid with no clue he needs to defend someone so he's not getting coached again. Enoch was bound to be better by the time he was 20 just because of size and maturity. I haven't seen him play as I said so again, no clue if he's defending anyone like he didn't here. But happy for him to get time and some numbers. Both are 2 years older and both lacked any accountability on their own. No matter if you want help form your coach he better step in the "gym" with you and work on things because that's what you want to hear from a kid.

 

[mauconnfan]

You realize those aren't considered his players. Just like the players when he was coaching aren't considered Killings and Ricky Moore's players.

Guessing he was coaching them while being an assistant no? He was there go to guy, certainly Boat because JC was tough on Boat so on the side, after practice I bet KO was their guy. You guys can fight the fact he had a chance to be a very good coach, proved it for a couple of years no doubt but then got lost somewhere between the divorce and recruiting requirements. Shame on him for not being able to separate the issues at hand but he proved he could "coach." What I now believe is he coached kids who really wanted to listen, who really wanted to get better and work with him like Bazz, Boat, Giffey, Deandre, Nolan etc etc make them even better. But he wasn't very good at getting through to the tough personality assignments like Vance and Steve who didn't seem to have the passion to work on what they needed to. Problem is that's the higher % of kids now so not good for him in that case. That would obviously not translate to being very successful as a HC at a major program as he proved.

But he could coach the kids who stayed and did, no denying that ever!

 

[jibsey]

Vance came to Ollie begging for him to coach him up and to develop his game and Ollie just told him to get in the gym. Enoch and Vance are both better because they are now being coached.

People have taken their position on these 2 players and neither side will be convinced. And they certainly have their liabilities. I don't even think that the results trickling in this year on them will change that. I don't like a thread that is going to remind us of 18 points and 10 boards and such as the year goes on especially with our deficiency in this area. Guess I shouldn't click it.

 

[businesslawyer]

Yes I do and I'll tell you why. The year before after we were waited for Brimah's magical summer transformation that never happened he never gave Enoch the floor time to develop. Hurley would know how to handle Vance I believe. Players transfer because they don't get enough playing time and don't see themselves in the future getting it. So I fault KO for not developing both players.

You're in a hole. Please stop digging. For all Brimah's flaws and inability to develop, if you didn't see a huge drop off in Enoch's two years here when he came in for Brimah you weren't watching. Plus, Brimah's biggest flaw his last year was limiting his own minutes by getting in foul trouble. Enoch's problem was he couldn't even take all the minutes Brimah left available by being in foul trouble because he would either immediately get in foul trouble himself or he would be so bad you wished he got in foul trouble.

Again, wondering if KO and the staff failed in developing him -- and if others could have done better -- is perfectly fair, if ultimately unknowable. But thinking he should have had more minutes his first two years here is just dead wrong.

 

[upstater]

Of course coaches sometimes play the more upside younger player over the older player who might give him the better chance of winning at the moment but doesn't give him the better chance later in the season, it happens all the time. Ollie's handling of Vance and Enoch was horrendous. Vance came to him in the offseason and was begging to be coached and Ollie made it clear he had no interest in coaching him.

Examples please. Teams need to get to the tourney and win games (For the record, I was for playing Brimah his senior year because--as inept as he was offensively--he was worlds better on defense.) I mean, you let the entire team down when you're a big man sieve in the middle. You let the guards down, you let the wings down. Can't have it.

Like I said, Calhoun had trouble with parents too.

 

[upstater]

You realize those aren't considered his players. Just like the players when he was coaching aren't considered Killings and Ricky Moore's players.

It's so silly of you to believe a guy that played under him for 3 years, and who developed under him, isn't his player, especially when that kid -- Boatright -- wasn't exactly ranked higher than any of his other recruits.

 

[upstater]

These were decisions about development, where the team was and where they would ultimately end up. KO lost the parents, the players and the team. As the numbers for Enoch and Vance continue to come in this year it will become more apparent that those players were not handled correctly because they were trashed for being crappy players on their way out.

Who trashed Vance? I didn't read it. Steve was trashed because of his lack of defense. That being said, this is Steve's 4th year in college ball. Hopefully he has developed, but then you'd expect that too. Even Nolan developed somewhat.

 

[upstater]

Nolan improved marginally. Boatright's greatest improvements occurred when Shabazz was here with him, though he tightened up his mechanics a bit on his jump shot prior to his senior season.

The overall point is that Ollie was overwhelmed when presented with all of the aspects of running a major college basketball program together. That includes recruiting (i.e. identifying and selling the program to players), building a roster (i.e. filling needs and recruiting to a system and style of play), player development, player management, game-planning, in-game rotation management, and overall game management. Once he had to do all of those things and didn't have guys that came up in the previous administration, the wheels came off pretty quickly.

Just about every program in the country finds a way for inexperienced players to contribute while masking and developing the gaps in their respective games. Ollie failed to do that, and in the process alienated some of his best players.

Boatright carried the team his senior year, he had a great improvement. In fact, he received kudos nationally for his play. There was a night and day difference between Boat his sophomore year and Boat his senior year. The difference was dramatic, not marginal.

 

[superjohn]

Examples please. Teams need to get to the tourney and win games (For the record, I was for playing Brimah his senior year because--as inept as he was offensively--he was worlds better on defense.) I mean, you let the entire team down when you're a big man sieve in the middle. You let the guards down, you let the wings down. Can't have it.

Like I said, Calhoun had trouble with parents too.

Ed Cooley yesterday. He says he's playing his freshman all the minutes now knowing there will be major pains in November but more likelihood for rewards in March. It happens all the time.

 

[superjohn]

Boatright carried the team his senior year, he had a great improvement. In fact, he received kudos nationally for his play. There was a night and day difference between Boat his sophomore year and Boat his senior year. The difference was dramatic, not marginal.

Boatright carried the team (non tournament team) because Bazz was gone and it was now his team. He was finally the man and given the keys, his numbers went up slightly from his sophomore year. The best ball Boatright played here was in the tourny his junior year.

 

[upstater]

Ed Cooley yesterday. He says he's playing his freshman all the minutes now knowing there will be major pains in November but more likelihood for rewards in March. It happens all the time.

I'll say it again (though I've said it numerous times) when you play a big man and he is offering no resistance, you are not only squandering the abilities of your older big men, but of the entire team. When big men play matador D and the opposing guards are getting to the hoop at will for layups, you're killing every single other player on the team--including the young guys, like Jalen Adams, like Vance. That's what hurts when a big guy can't pay defense.

And for the record, Steven got plenty of minutes early that year, 8 straight games into the conference season when he had 17, 12, 8, 16, 11, 22, 22, 18, 22 against Oklahoma st, Oregon, Boston U, Syracuse, Ohio St, N Florida, Auburn, Houston. It was only after the Houston game that he saw his minutes decline, and anyone who was at that Houston game at the XL can vouch for the way that Houston paraded to the hoops for layup after layup. It was pretty sickening. Blame Ollie for that, blame him for not helping Steven get a better grasp of the defense, but don't blame him for playing a guy in Brimah who was actually much better at D.