The Official 2023 New England Patriots Thread | Page 4 | The Boneyard

The Official 2023 New England Patriots Thread

BigErnMcCracken said:
With Judon and Gonzalez potentially done for the year I'd be on board with tanking for Caleb Williams. But they'll probably end up with 6 wins and draft a long-snapper from Tufts that no one's ever heard of.
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They honestly nailed the first three rounds of picks this year, aside from not getting OL help. There's a massive problem with the run game. The OL is just getting dominated. Mac isn't the main problem, nor are the RBs or WRs. Those could be better but something is seriously wrong with the schemes.
 
HuskyHawk said:
They honestly nailed the first three rounds of picks this year, aside from not getting OL help. There's a massive problem with the run game. The OL is just getting dominated. Mac isn't the main problem, nor are the RBs or WRs. Those could be better but something is seriously wrong with the schemes.
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Mac isn't the main problem but he is a problem. He played fairly well as a rookie and I was convinced that his year 2 problems were 100% attributable to two non-offensive coaches calling offensive signals and plays. I thought he was so young, he was fixable. Especially for Bill O'Brien.

Now, I may not have to do the knee-bend-&-roll maneuver to jump from the Mac Jones bandwagon. It's coming to a screeching halt on it's own. Barring a 10-3 finish, it's doubtful he gets his 5th year option at this point.
 
Husky25 said:
Mac isn't the main problem but he is a problem. He played fairly well as a rookie and I was convinced that his year 2 problems were 100% attributable to two non-offensive coaches calling offensive signals and plays. I thought he was so young, he was fixable. Especially for Bill O'Brien.

Now, I may not have to do the knee-bend-&-roll maneuver to jump from the Mac Jones bandwagon. It's coming to a screeching halt on it's own. Barring a 10-3 finish, it's doubtful he gets his 5th year option at this point.
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Agreed. He was pretty good until last Sunday. The pressure rate on Sunday was insane, and yet we couldn't run the ball. If they want to move on, fine. I wanted a mobile QB, but honestly, all of the QBs from the first round of that draft except Lawrence are worse than Mac. My biggest complaint with Mac is that he doesn't put enough on the ball and doesn't seem to realize how quickly defenders close on a slow, lofted ball. That works great at Bama where Waddle and others were wide open. In the NFL has to rip those throws. Either he can't step in b/c pressure or he doesn't have the arm strength. Brady didn't have a cannon on deep balls, he lofted them, but he could make short and intermediate throws on a line. Mac is lofting screen passes.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Agreed. He was pretty good until last Sunday. The pressure rate on Sunday was insane, and yet we couldn't run the ball. If they want to move on, fine. I wanted a mobile QB, but honestly, all of the QBs from the first round of that draft except Lawrence are worse than Mac. My biggest complaint with Mac is that he doesn't put enough on the ball and doesn't seem to realize how quickly defenders close on a slow, lofted ball. That works great at Bama where Waddle and others were wide open. In the NFL has to rip those throws. Either he can't step in b/c pressure or he doesn't have the arm strength. Brady didn't have a cannon on deep balls, he lofted them, but he could make short and intermediate throws on a line. Mac is lofting screen passes.
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Just for conversation, as an outsider that admittedly hates the Patriots.

2020 - Brady left and the plan was to see what Stidham could do. He couldn't win the job and they brought in Cam Newton. Stidham played in portions of 5 games, did not start.

2021 - Mac is drafted and starts games. 23 TD, 17 INT, 3,801 yds.
2022 - He starts 14 games, 14 TD, 11 INT, 2,997 yds. Zappe and Hoyer start the other games. Some fans want Zappe to take over.
2023 - Jones is benched in Game 4. 5 TD, 4 INT, 898 yds.

It looks like, to me, the Patriots (blame whoever you want) have screwed the pooch trying to replace Brady. Newton was a panic move when Stidham fell on his face. And Mac Jones hasn't really done anything in 2+ years. And trust me. If anyone knows failed QB moves, it's me. And he's one.
 
Deepster said:
Just for conversation, as an outsider that admittedly hates the Patriots.

2020 - Brady left and the plan was to see what Stidham could do. He couldn't win the job and they brought in Cam Newton. Stidham played in portions of 5 games, did not start.

2021 - Mac is drafted and starts games. 23 TD, 17 INT, 3,801 yds.
2022 - He starts 14 games, 14 TD, 11 INT, 2,997 yds. Zappe and Hoyer start the other games. Some fans want Zappe to take over.
2023 - Jones is benched in Game 4. 5 TD, 4 INT, 898 yds.

It looks like, to me, the Patriots (blame whoever you want) have screwed the pooch trying to replace Brady. Newton was a panic move when Stidham fell on his face. And Mac Jones hasn't really done anything in 2+ years. And trust me. If anyone knows failed QB moves, it's me. And he's one.
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I mean, @HuskyHawk writes fan fiction for the Pats. No one doesn't think Mac is a problem. Or the WRs. Or the RB who is near the bottom of the league in yards after contact. He will soon come and say how great of a move getting JC Jackson is. I mean the praise of the JuJu signing and drafting a kicker in round 4 was good comedy during a quite spring/summer.
 
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Deepster said:
Just for conversation, as an outsider that admittedly hates the Patriots.

2020 - Brady left and the plan was to see what Stidham could do. He couldn't win the job and they brought in Cam Newton. Stidham played in portions of 5 games, did not start.

2021 - Mac is drafted and starts games. 23 TD, 17 INT, 3,801 yds.
2022 - He starts 14 games, 14 TD, 11 INT, 2,997 yds. Zappe and Hoyer start the other games. Some fans want Zappe to take over.
2023 - Jones is benched in Game 4. 5 TD, 4 INT, 898 yds.

It looks like, to me, the Patriots (blame whoever you want) have screwed the pooch trying to replace Brady. Newton was a panic move when Stidham fell on his face. And Mac Jones hasn't really done anything in 2+ years. And trust me. If anyone knows failed QB moves, it's me. And he's one.
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They never really thought Stidham could be the starter. They hoped Cam might rekindle his magic. He was a one year stop-gap to let them draft a guy the next year if Cam couldn't revive his career. He couldn't, so they drafted a guy. Has this gone well? No. But the team was really old when Brady moved on and they needed to rebuild anyway. They mostly did that on defense (replacing almost everyone), but not offense.

Mac is certainly part of the problem, maybe a big part. But no QB in the league would succeed behind that line and with that offensive cast and system. Is he failed at this point? Not yet. But he's using up what rope he has.

Short memories, but they said this about Tua and Hurts as well.

The Miami Dolphins have a dilemma: Help Tua or draft his replacement? | FOX Sports

The Dolphins sit high in a QB-rich draft, which leads to a dilemma: Do they get help for Tua or draft his replacement?
www.foxsports.com www.foxsports.com
 
HuskyHawk said:
They never really thought Stidham could be the starter. They hoped Cam might rekindle his magic. He was a one year stop-gap to let them draft a guy the next year if Cam couldn't revive his career. He couldn't, so they drafted a guy. Has this gone well? No. But the team was really old when Brady moved on and they needed to rebuild anyway. They mostly did that on defense (replacing almost everyone), but not offense.

Mac is certainly part of the problem, maybe a big part. But no QB in the league would succeed behind that line and with that offensive cast and system. Is he failed at this point? Not yet. But he's using up what rope he has.

Short memories, but they said this about Tua and Hurts as well.

The Miami Dolphins have a dilemma: Help Tua or draft his replacement? | FOX Sports

The Dolphins sit high in a QB-rich draft, which leads to a dilemma: Do they get help for Tua or draft his replacement?
www.foxsports.com www.foxsports.com
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So....

1) If Stidham wasn't a viable option, why let Brady go and why wait so long to get a Newton in camp?

2) Why couldn't they have re-tooled with Brady?

3) If the O Line is the end all, be all excuse then Zach Wilson is in the same (or better) position for why he's not succeeding, right?
 
Deepster said:
So....

1) If Stidham wasn't a viable option, why let Brady go and why wait so long to get a Newton in camp?

2) Why couldn't they have re-tooled with Brady?

3) If the O Line is the end all, be all excuse then Zach Wilson is in the same (or better) position for why he's not succeeding, right?
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They promised Brady in his last extension that they wouldn't tag him. He wanted to try playing elsewhere. They waited because there was nobody out there. I admit, that's a failure. But like I said, the roster sucked from years of trying to win. It was a really old, slow team with little cap space. So that was our tank year and Cam was cheap.

Almost every bad team with bad QB play currently has a terrible OL. Pats, Jets, Giants and even the Bengals (Denver sucks on the D side and Carolina sucks at everything). The Jets may have a worse OL, I don't know. They are both bad. So are the Giants. The Bengals may be even worse. The Patriots have faced a pretty tough schedule in that regard, so have the Jets aside from KC.

The Bengals have the best young QB in the game, and a great group of receivers and have the 2nd worst offense in the NFL (Giants dead last). Offensive Linemen aren't getting the job done and it's a problem across about 1/3 of the league.
 
You reference the Bengals struggles as an OL problem and I hear more about Burrows calf being the driving issue. He’s not right. Can’t get anything on the ball. Can’t make the throws with zip or the long balls (Chase has been invisible).

Now could lack of protection of bad OL play be a combo problem or contributing to that? Sure. But it’s definitely not just a bad OL there. Fair points on everything else.
 
Deepster said:
You reference the Bengals struggles as an OL problem and I hear more about Burrows calf being the driving issue. He’s not right. Can’t get anything on the ball. Can’t make the throws with zip or the long balls (Chase has been invisible).

Now could lack of protection of bad OL play be a combo problem or contributing to that? Sure. But it’s definitely not just a bad OL there. Fair points on everything else.
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He's hurt because their OL is an absolute sieve and he keeps getting killed back there. They need to sit him, but it means a superbowl contender will be out of contention already and I think they had a hard time with that.

I consider it an interesting look at building a team. Keep Tee Higgins with Chase? Ok, but you need OL. KC traded Hill and rebuilt the OL and DL (after getting dominated in the trenches by Tampa in the SuperBowl the year before). Now their WR suck, but they win anyway. The Patriots used to prioritize the OL but it hasn't been good without Dante coaching it. Hoped Klemm could fix it.
 
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Drafting a kicker who makes 50% of his kicks in the 4th was definitely the right move
 
HuskyHawk said:
The Bengals have the best young QB in the game, and a great group of receivers and have the 2nd worst offense in the NFL (Giants dead last). Offensive Linemen aren't getting the job done and it's a problem across about 1/3 of the league.
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I love Joe Burrow but he's only a year younger than Patrick Mahomes and he can't hold Mahomes jock.
 
Scoe said:
Husky Hawk is going through his rough drafts for the last 2 hours, trying to spin this one.
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Nothing at all good about this game. Utter and complete disaster in every phase of the game.
 
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superjohn said:
I love Joe Burrow but he's only a year younger than Patrick Mahomes and he can't hold Mahomes jock.
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When healthy, which is almost never, I think he’s the 2nd best QB in the league. Reminds me of something little appreciated abut Brady, he was almost never seriously hurt in 20 years. A lot of the better QBs in the league are a lot less durable. Mahomes has been durable.
 
Patriots offensive rankings through five weeks...

  • Points/game: 32nd
  • Yards/game: 26th
  • Yards/pass attempt: 29th
  • Yards/rush: 29th
  • EPA/play: 32nd
  • Success rate: 30th
  • EPA/dropback: 32nd
  • Dropback success rate: 30th
  • EPA/rush: 32nd
  • Rush success rate: 29th
 
Deepster said:
Patriots offensive rankings through five weeks...

  • Points/game: 32nd
  • Yards/game: 26th
  • Yards/pass attempt: 29th
  • Yards/rush: 29th
  • EPA/play: 32nd
  • Success rate: 30th
  • EPA/dropback: 32nd
  • Dropback success rate: 30th
  • EPA/rush: 32nd
  • Rush success rate: 29th
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Angry emoji not aimed at you or the post, just at the team and offense specifically. It's a train wreck. I didn't comment on the Jets thread but I think it may be a blessing that Wilson is playing. I don't think he's all that bright, but his tools are phenomenal and if he figures it out and the game slows down for him you'll be glad he got the chance.

Mac is pretty sharp, but I just don't think he has the tools to make plays when the whole offensive scheme is obliterated play after play. Teams just putting 11 in the box and overwhelming the line. Screens are tackled for a loss because nobody blocking the CBs. RBs hit behind the line every time. The only thing that could save that is a WR who could get behind the D very quickly and QB that could turn a broken play into a long TD. OL can't block. Neither TE can block. Parker is the only WR who can block and he's the deep threat.
 
They have to be tanking at this point. They can't actually be this bad, right?
 
I think Mac is a good QB, but he's been gutted by the team leadership since day 1. I'm no expert, but it seems like there needs to be some serious change in NE. BB?

It's OK, I was a fan in elementary school when the Pats' tradition was being historically awful. Was in college in MA and was wearing the "Berry the Bears" T-shirt for that massacre. Then they were the "dynasty". We're back to awful, for now. So it goes.

Thankfully I'm not as emotionally connected to them as I am to UCMBB.
 
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DeVonte Adam's sucks big wildebeest balls
 
Mac made a great throw that Parker should have caught. Probably would have won the game. He almost made one of the worst throws you’ll see on his INT. But they scored two TDs, which is progress I suppose.
 
I'm off the Mac Train and blame Patricia, Judge, and mainly Belichick for putting Patricia and Judge in positions to so negatively influence Jones for so long.

Hope he does well wherever his career takes him, but it's tough to see Foxborough as that place.

Of course not having any weapons that opposing DCs take seriously doesn't help either (Also on Belichick). It's not that Mac isn't Brady. No one is Brady.
 
Patriots actually looking like an NFL team so far today.
 
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