Tennessee at Notre Dame Thur | Page 7 | The Boneyard

Tennessee at Notre Dame Thur

dogged1 said:
Somehow, I think they know that. :p
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I think they think they know that, but looking at other coaches out there and what has happened at other schools - they may look back on Holly's years as the "good times." TN have not had much success at hiring coaches or ADs for that matter.
 
Boxerpups4me said:
Another thing i noticed about holly..of all the high ranked high school players she has coached since taking the tennessee job, she hasnt produced one all american..i was hoping russell or nared would get the honor this season, but the way its going now, i dont see either one becoming all americans
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Boxer and other LV fans - this is a question for you who watch Tennessee more often.

One of the announcers last night cited a discussion either about or with Russell that revolved around Russell should be more assertive in demanding the ball. My casual observation from the few games I've seen is that she is an athletically gifted who player who continuously under-performs, either because of lack of coaching, or lack of passion, or some combination between these factors, so what the announcer said seemed to ring true to me.

I'm wondering what your take is on this.
 
UcMiami said:
I continue to be amazed how little actual analysis of the style, coaching, and team chemistry goes into the choices most recruits make. Holly has been proving that she is limited as a game coach and a developmental coach for years. This is the best looking TN team I think since she took over and yet they still can lay these kind of eggs.
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Your comment is again, so spot on.

Holly has continued to follow a limited coaching style throughout her tenure: Coach defense and let the team work out its own offense. Last year she finally pulled away from the double post and introduced a kind of phantom double post where a forward would lurk near the paint and would enter when they felt it or when Russell would leave it. Very loosely based structure. Now it's run and gun one on one/lurking double post. When the other team plays a well structure offense and defense Holly has failed to teach her young team how to patiently break that offense or defense down. Her young team passes well but are clearly prone to errors of the forced and unforced kind. Their offense has shown good ball movement punctuated by bad and untutored decisions. They have no real idea how to run a half court offense because Holly doesn't teach offense. Yet these young ladies are Talented, and even Holly can't keep them out of the Dance for years to come. I wouldn't sleep on them. They could figure this stuff out to a FF or 2 or even a title. They are that good.
 
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Orangutan said:
The win probability chart for this game is wild:

View attachment 27863

At one point in the fourth quarter, Tennessee had a 95.5% chance of winning. By 3:18 left, ND had a 95.9% chance to win. Tennessee went from being almost guaranteed to win to being almost guaranteed to lose in about 6 minutes.
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It's amazing. The win probability chart bears an uncanny resemblance to the heart monitor of Vol fans.
 
HuskyNan said:
Bingo
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Seattle at times does the same thing with Stewie, sometimes Loyd, and even Sue, will put up a shot without Stewie touching the ball. That has to be one of the reasons the coach was fired.
 
They are biting their own tails over thar in the hollers!!
 
In watching the game I noticed that Tennessee's freshmen play really poor defense as does Russell. On ND, Young is weak on defense and EO dribbles much too much. She can shoot them into a game and out of a game. Next season ND could be very good if Turner returns and their other injured players heal.
 
dogged1 said:
At this point there can be no doubt, Holly is a great recruiter. But, I do believe the evidence demonstrates that she does not mold that talent into a cohesive team. Perhaps she is just someone who makes a first class Assistant Coach and a poor Head Coach?
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In that case, she needs to recognize the fact and hire assistants that are great at X's and O's.
 
Anyone know if Margo posted a video? I gotta see it to see how apoplectic she is...:rolleyes:
 
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What baffled me about this game was how well UT moved the ball in the first half and how stagnant they became in the 2nd half.

I would really like to see Russell moved to the high post some more. It would free her up from the double teams that clog up the paint, thus giving her more space to maneuver and also giving the guards more opportunities to drive to the rim.
 
easttexastrash said:
What baffled me about this game was how well UT moved the ball in the first half and how stagnant they became in the 2nd half.

I would really like to see Russell moved to the high post some more. It would free her up from the double teams that clog up the paint, thus giving her more space to maneuver and also giving the guards more opportunities to drive to the rim.
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I haven't seen any indication that Russell is effective in the high post as she doesn't seem to know what to do there. She hangs around the low post, hoping for a pass, but if she gets bodied out into no man's land she is completely out of the game.

I wish the kid had gotten some better coaching. She accomplishes what she does on raw talent.
 
Ive been watching Holly for years. She has no clue as to why her teams underperform. She is not developing her players. All those AA's and she cant compete, cant get her team going and its frustrating for the team, fans and those who watch them. A perfect example this year and there are many over the years is Russell. 6'6 Russell who cant score and disappears in games. Its amazin.

The problem when Hollys contract is up is can Tenn find a really good coach to run the team. A really good coach will want really good money and the money goes to Tenn Football not the Lady Vols. Tenn plays Miss St Sunday afternoon. Should be interesting. I would expect a Miss St blowout. This year Tenn has played to many home games against lesser teams. What Pat once built has crumbled and almost hit rock bottom. Reading the Tenn boards the fans want and have wanted Hollys head. The athletic dept will have to get a replacement. The AA's keep going to Tenn and with all that talent Tenn still cant play up to their potential. They still cant live up to their prior years legend.
 
Tonyc said:
Ive been watching Holly for years. She has no clue as to why her teams underperform. She is not developing her players. All those AA's and she cant compete...Its amazin.

The problem when Hollys contract is up is can Tenn find a really good coach to run the team. A really good coach will want really good money and the money goes to Tenn Football not the Lady Vols. .
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TonyC -very good post (as usual) and I have kept some of the salient points up to expand upon.
Her quotes after games are painful when she says she’s doesn’t know- the Tenn communication Dept Chair should conduct a class with her to help learn how to answer the questions. I think I saw one poster state the other day She has not developed one of her HS AA into a college AA during her tenure and that speaks volumes. Russell was #1in her class and as HuskyNan says-gets by on raw talent-so true.

However, at this point in the discussion we must part on agreeing as Holly makes an astounding $625-650K per year. That’s unbelievable money in WCBB. The real issue is if Fullmer decides to not renew, WHO doe they get. Their arrogance will want a LadyVol alum and I just don’t see anyone who qualifies to elevate that program back to prominence. The highest level HC now is Vargas at LSU and she’s been average at best so it can’t be her. Who then? The VolNation board mentions Catchings and Parker (too young and still playing) but I have not seen any elite player go into coaching and succeed-Swoopes is the most recent; Cheryl Miller as well and both were not good.
Would they turn to Becky Hammon who wanted more money at Florida but they went on the cheap and went a different route and at the moment it looks bad.
Personally, I think they keep her as she has another top class coming in and she seems to still attract the top talent despite NOT DEVELOPING THEM. For us, we are bifurcated on this as if they keep her, we know they won’t truly be relevant and if they let her go, it could be a disaster (so fun to watch) or a rise back up to major relevance and in the national discussion. Theirs is a cautionary tale that we should learn from when Geno stores his whistle...
 
bleeckerhusky said:
Here is the latest from Margo.

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Bleekerhusky, thanks for posting and I as well as others on here will probably appreciate this. Love her passion and her upbeat honesty. Holly should really consider sending Margo to the post game pressers to give logical, thoughtful, insightful and upbeat responses to what occurred in the game.
The issue this continues to highlight is the absolute disparity of Men’s sports expectations and Women’s sports expectations in regards to revenue vs. winning. Were this a Men’s program, Holly would be long gone but as this is a Women’s program with limited revenue so at best, with a 16-2 record and a top ten ranking, there’s no way she will be fired before this contract runs out. My guess is this team finishes with 3 more conference losses possibly 4 and finishes behind MSU, Missouri, SC, Georgia/TAM. This team has a lot of talent as evidenced by having a 23 point lead at one point. Just a shame they can’t have an actual coach who knows how to coach. I also doubt they will be a top 16 seed. It was a good run so to finish with 7 losses would be an improvement albeit an underachievement given this talent.
 
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You know, I thought Holly would be open to her assistants observations (help) with all the new freshmen. I can't believe that nothing was forthcoming from Gordon and Lockwood during their free fall against ND. ( I don't know this for a fact, but I hope they would have had some contribution to the 2nd half play). Could be that Holly chooses to use or ignore their thoughts.
Holly tends to live or die with Russell. ND made adjustments that cancelled out Russell as an option. When this happens, Russell disappears. I wonder if it ever occurs to Holly that taking Russell out of the game and replacing her with a smaller, shooting player might be an option. I guess we call this going small. Anyway, if a player for whatever reason is not being productive, put someone else in. Bottom line, TN can't afford for Russell to disappear. This is on Holly.
 
For obvious reasons, it’s tempting to try to “caricature” Margo. That shouldn’t obscure the fact that she’s smart as all get out, highly articulate in her own way, and would present a huge improvement over Holly if she were to take the reins!
 
DefenseBB said:
Bleekerhusky, thanks for posting and I as well as others on here will probably appreciate this. Love her passion and her upbeat honesty. Holly should really consider sending Margo to the post game pressers to give logical, thoughtful, insightful and upbeat responses to what occurred in the game.
The issue this continues to highlight is the absolute disparity of Men’s sports expectations and Women’s sports expectations in regards to revenue vs. winning. Were this a Men’s program, Holly would be long gone but as this is a Women’s program with limited revenue so at best, with a 16-2 record and a top ten ranking, there’s no way she will be fired before this contract runs out. My guess is this team finishes with 3 more conference losses possibly 4 and finishes behind MSU, Missouri, SC, Georgia/TAM. This team has a lot of talent as evidenced by having a 23 point lead at one point. Just a shame they can’t have an actual coach who knows how to coach. I also doubt they will be a top 16 seed. It was a good run so to finish with 7 losses would be an improvement albeit an underachievement given this talent.
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Don't see many TN games, but most teams would love to be 16-2, ranked in Top 10 and have great players. Overreaction? Geno was not considered more than an above average coach until Lobo, etc. came on board.
 
cabbie191 said:
Boxer and other LV fans - this is a question for you who watch Tennessee more often.

One of the announcers last night cited a discussion either about or with Russell that revolved around Russell should be more assertive in demanding the ball. My casual observation from the few games I've seen is that she is an athletically gifted who player who continuously under-performs, either because of lack of coaching, or lack of passion, or some combination between these factors, so what the announcer said seemed to ring true to me.

I'm wondering what your take is on this.
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I honestly think its lack of coaching. She is a gifted player no doubt, and there has been some improvement in her game since she was a freshman. I think if she can get a coach in the wnba who is a good motivator and good disciplinarian, then she can be really good. She gets neither from holly
 
HopJim said:
Don't see many TN games, but most teams would love to be 16-2, ranked in Top 10 and have great players. Overreaction? Geno was not considered more than an above average coach until Lobo, etc. came on board.
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I think many vol fans, myself included, get tired of the poor fundamentals, lack of discipline, the befuddled press conferences, the insane amount of turnovers game after game, season after season, losing double digit leads, and poor player development that seem to plague a holly coached tennessee team. Its not just one game here and there, this is a constant issue with her teams.

For the record, i still support holly as coach, but issues like these will eventually hurt recruiting and all of a sudden, there will be that season where tennessee isnt relevent anymore.

16-2 is a great start no doubt and im happy about that, but not happy on how tenneseee was coached in those 2 losses, especially the nd loss. That loss could turn what started out as a great start into a dismal finish. We will see tommorrow how they respond with a extremely tough msu team..
 
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This thread has strengthened my belief that when good Irish fans want to post, they go to Boneyard.
Where do the bad Irish fans post?
 
Boxerpups4me said:
I honestly think its lack of coaching. She is a gifted player no doubt, and there has been some improvement in her game since she was a freshman. I think if she can get a coach in the wnba who is a good motivator and good disciplinarian, then she can be really good. She gets neither from holly
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Look at how Elizabeth Williams (Duke/Atlanta Dream) vastly improved her game after leaving college. She's nowhere near the player she was at Duke. Coaching can make a difference.

Look at the transformation Azura is under going at UConn. Things she should be comfortable doing at 6'6", that she was not asked (expected) or trained to do.
 
cockhrnleghrn said:
In that case, she needs to recognize the fact and hire assistants that are great at X's and O's.
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The problem is the great basketball minds in WCBB, Muffet, Bruno, Geno etc. don't really teach X's and O's. They show and teach options off of positional play. This is much harder to teach because as a coach you need to know the many options from each offensive position, and as a player you need to learn how to read, recognize and respond. In other words, you need to combine a smart coach who knows how to recruit the right kind of smart players. There just aren't many of these people around. Holly sure isn't one of them. She is also poor at game management and at times it seems she thinks she can carry TO's over to the next game.
 
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Scoop said:
Look at how Elizabeth Williams (Duke/Atlanta Dream) vastly improved her game after leaving college. She's nowhere near the player she was at Duke. Coaching can make a difference.

Look at the transformation Azura is under going at UConn. Things she should be comfortable doing at 6'6", that she was not asked (expected) or trained to do.
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Coaching and motivation.
 
HopJim said:
Don't see many TN games, but most teams would love to be 16-2, ranked in Top 10 and have great players. Overreaction? Geno was not considered more than an above average coach until Lobo, etc. came on board.
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?? The first I heard about Auriemma was in the context of the 1991 Final Four run and how he took a team with only one winning season before him to that plateau. Since then I've not heard one single source, not one single source, not even Tennessee fans, consider Auriemma merely "an above average coach." Not one. I would be interested in any source you have claiming so.
 
cabbie191 said:
Boxer and other LV fans - this is a question for you who watch Tennessee more often.
One of the announcers last night cited a discussion either about or with Russell that revolved around Russell should be more assertive in demanding the ball. My casual observation from the few games I've seen is that she is an athletically gifted who player who continuously under-performs, either because of lack of coaching, or lack of passion, or some combination between these factors, so what the announcer said seemed to ring true to me.
I'm wondering what your take is on this.
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The announcers were Kara and Rebecca and the entire discussion had me personally fuming at Mercedes. Kara started the discussion by saying that Mercedes has been basically MIA since the first half. The discussion continue that one of the announcers actually asked mercedes in times like these when your teamates are basically ignoring you; "Do you ever get mad enough to demand the ball and are you willing to strangle your teamates when you don't get it." "That's not really my personality was the response from Mercedes".
My positive intrepretation of that answer is, Mercedes is a very nice young lady.
 
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