MattMang23
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Hahaha we are ahead of BC.
Schools' Realignment Worths
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Dooley
Done with U-con athletics
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The Big East was a power conference under the old BCS model. That model changed, using a ridiculous set of criteria (old boys network, who has won the most football games in the past 1-2 seasons, turf wars, etc), and we were essentially a "have" school that has been stuck playing with the "have nots". Heave, thrown out, or not re-invited…it's all the same thing: we lost a seat in a power conference that we previously held (and performed well in).
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http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/
Search the ratings by teams. Start with all of the teams that are P5 and bleow Uconn on that list and look at their conference game ratings. Then look at Uconn's, Cinci and USF in conference ratings. Those are some of the numbers that drive value.
This model was for 2012/2013, so you can include Ville, Cuse, and Pitt with the group above. The majority of the Big East schools fall in the mid 40's to mid 60's using this criteria and could individually add value (or at least not decrease value) to P5 conferences. But as a collective group, the conference was no longer operating at the same level as the other BCS conferences. Could be a combination of things, such as BBall only schools, high percentage of privates, and lacking a cornerstone national brand.
I also found it interesting that the "football school" of Clemson, GT, and Miami were ranked so low. Maybe this is accurate, but if they are so invaluable as compared to the remaining ACC, why does it seem as if they have been making the final decisions along with FSU for the past few years? My feeling is that the criteria used does not favor football enough to show the true value of a school with respect to conference realignment because football has been heavily weighed in recent realignments.
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No, you totally missed the point (which was your point). You were talking about schools getting thrown out of conferences. You then spoke about UConn as an example.
Dooley
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No. I wasn't talking about schools being thrown out of conferences. I was talking about schools voluntarily or involuntarily (I don't care how) leaving the Power grouping if it were to go into chaos because of change. Fishy mentioned something about nobody getting the heave from the power model and I begged to differ because, as we all know, UCONN, USF and Cincinnati were (according to the old power model that changed).
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We have the distinction of being the only school thrown into a conference against it's will.
RMoore1999
Illegitimi Non Carborundum!
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We are in an actual conference? News to me....
Because the Atlantic Coast Conference by-laws give Florida State exactly as many votes as Clemson, Miami, or Georgia Tech.
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Saying conference is just easier than calling it what it is since the word would be on the BY list of banned language.
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Yes it does but concentrate on the in conference games on similar outlets and compare the numbers. That is what drives value. Eyeballs.
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One must note that the UConn-Michigan match shared numbers with the Texas-Kansas State match (both on ABC)...the total number cited includes ratings for both games...
huskypantz
All posts from this user are AI-generated
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Notre Dame #19? Okay. Maybe #19 among pro football teams.
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I know I'm biased here, but I don't believe that Minnesota, California, and Michigan State are all worth more than ND in CR.
FfldCntyFan
Texas: Property of UConn Men's Basketball program
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Not exactly. The Big East stopped being a power conference when too many of the members that played the highest revenue sport (football) left. Any current P-5 conference could suffer a similar fate if something were to happen to cause enough members to leave for another conference. The BE's fatal flaw was that inherit in its design (which was reasonable as it was the initial purpose of the conference) was allowing too much power (relative to other major conferences) to basketball only members. The result of this was the instability that led to the football members being willing participants in raids from other conferences. Our football members were easier pickings solelybecause of the makeup of our conference.
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Don't get mad at me because I'm trying to give you an honest answer of why ND has less value than you think in CR. meaning once they join a conference. The argument would be if they don't have their own network, than it would massively decrease their value. The alumni base is small compared to most state schools. People watch Notre dame because they are on TV in prime time against good opponents and the games are VERY VERY hyped by the network. If there's no personal TV network deal and less national games, than that hurts recruiting and massively hurts fan support. On field success goes down. ND is worth a lot because of their independence and TV network/ media attention. If they join a conference they are clearly going to be a big part of it, but will not be the lone shining star that gets all of the attention they do today. As it stands now Notre Dame is top 3 in value, but once the school joins a conference that will decrease to 10-20 range just like other schools with a lot of football tradition. All things being equal I don't think ND is ahead of schools like Michigan, Ohio state, Penn State, Florida State, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Florida, Alabama, LSU, Georgia in terms of value from fan support and overall ability to be competitive year in and year out everything being equal from an exposure stand point. Sure Notre Dame can sell academics and tradition, but a lot of schools have tradition and there are other schools like standford, UCLA, USC and michigan that have similar academics but can offer different college experiences to recruits.
So in conclusion, the eye balls are there because of TV exposure and hype for their games. Recruiting is there because of the coaches being able to sell a ton of national exposure in addition to tradition. Once the exposure and hype is reduced it puts that aspect on a level playing field with all the other colleges. Now on field success and the ability to lure recruits to go to their school over other programs will dictate value to a conference.
As you can see, it will be tough for ND to be a top 10-15 program unless the media keeps hyping them (which could happen), but they will still compete with the 2nd tier of programs in the long term such as Minnesota, Cal, and mich state you mentioned.
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ND has a very small alumni base, but a very large fan base. The student body makes up less than 10% of the stadium but they have sold out every game but one since 1963. I don't think there is another school in the country that has a student body that makes up only 10% of the stadium? I guess there is a chicken or egg situation here , is ND popular because it has it's own network deal, or do they have their own network deal because they are popular. I think they have the network deal because they are popular which is why the Big Ten, Big 12, and ACC all wanted them.
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Notre Dame has mystique and tradition, for what that's worth.
The school of Rockne, the Four Horsemen thundering under a graying sky, the Gipper .....
No matter their record, Notre Dame is one of the giants of traditional college football...much like Michigan. They command audiences.
The former Big 12 Commissioner on Notre Dame...In a January memo to the Big 12 expansion committee, interim commissioner Chuck Neinas said Notre Dame is the only school the Big 12 could add that would “enhance the Big 12 value for television.
The Big Ten also has thought that ND was the bee's knees...
Though Notre Dame's decision was no surprise, it came as a disappointment to many in the Big Ten who saw the Irish as the one addition that would separate the Big Ten from the other major conferences. As one Big Ten athletic director put it as talks with the Irish heated up last year, "If you put a value on other schools, it may take three to bring you up to what Notre Dame brings."
The school of Rockne, the Four Horsemen thundering under a graying sky, the Gipper .....
No matter their record, Notre Dame is one of the giants of traditional college football...much like Michigan. They command audiences.
The former Big 12 Commissioner on Notre Dame...In a January memo to the Big 12 expansion committee, interim commissioner Chuck Neinas said Notre Dame is the only school the Big 12 could add that would “enhance the Big 12 value for television.
The Big Ten also has thought that ND was the bee's knees...
Though Notre Dame's decision was no surprise, it came as a disappointment to many in the Big Ten who saw the Irish as the one addition that would separate the Big Ten from the other major conferences. As one Big Ten athletic director put it as talks with the Irish heated up last year, "If you put a value on other schools, it may take three to bring you up to what Notre Dame brings."
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Absolutely!
And those who choose not to realize that college football is big entertainment will miss the boat.
Media contracts in the billions, coaches making $4-5 million per year is not about football value...it is about entertainment value.
nelsonmuntz
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WRONG WRONG WRONG.
The Big East was a victim of bad TV contracts that resulted from the fact that Miami was one more Luther Campbell interview away from the death penalty when the Big East signed its TV deal in the mid 90's. That, together with the fact that BC was mired in a gambling scandal, Nehlen was running out the string at WVU, and Pitt, Rutgers and Temple were all terrible in football, was what cost the Big East. That TV contract was deservedly terrible, and the conference never recovered.
Basketball was carrying the league back then, and even hoops was suffering. Thompson was getting old, Lappas was not the answer at Villanova, and basically UConn, Syracuse and to a lesser extent St. Johns were carrying the league. Miami, VTech and BC were attendance and ratings poison for the league.
That bad 90's deal left the league vulnerable to a raid in 2003, which lead to another bad TV deal, which lead to the final demise.
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There are die hard fans that live in the area. That is absolutely correct. No doubt that ND has a very solid and passionate fan base around the campus and in major cities where there are a lot of alumni like New York City and Chicago. However, the ratings on TV are mostly because of hype for games and prime time spots. I live in the Boston area and have never met a ND fan that does not have a direct connection to the school. One would think Boston could be a place where ND would be popular because of the Irish Catholic connection and no natural college football team to root for but a very passionate football fan base (it's just a fact for BC unfortunately. i rooted for them growing up and it was embarrassing because the fan support was so bad) There's going to be basically no support in places where college football is big and there are major state schools to root for. There are plenty of eye balls watching ND play because people love college football and ND is on prime time against many good opponents, but they are not fans of ND. Again, ND is special because of the TV network connection. I'm not saying that if they lose that than they fall off the face of the earth. I'm saying they will drop back into the 2nd tier of teams with very good local fan support and tradition. ND has disadvantages like being a small religious affiliated school and fairly isolated in a cold environment. So recruiting will be tougher for them in a lot of ways than USC, Miami, or Texas. That doesn't mean that tradition, fan support, and academics won't draw recruits. However, you would have to be extremely optimistic to think ND could compete on equal ground with the top 10 teams in the country. It is well documented that recruits choose ND because of the TV exposure they get. It's obvious why a recruit would still choose ND if they were a part of the big 10 over schools like UConn, Wake forest, or even Indiana. But why would they choose ND over Michigan or Stanford? Its seems like Michigan and Stanford can offer everything ND can, but also give a different college experience that most athletes would prefer. This transition wouldn't' happen over night. There would still be about 5 years after joining a conference that ND would enjoy their advantages, but that would begin to fade soon after.
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Notre Dame is a national team....not a regional interest.
They play a national schedule that will include teams like Texas, Southern Cal, FSU, Michigan State, etc...and it shows up in their recruiting.
They have kids on their current roster (includes 2014 signeees) from:
California, Washington, South Carolina, Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, New York, District of Columbia, Pennsylvania, Texas, Minnesota, Virginia, New Jersey, Michigan, Iowa, Kentucky, Arizona, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Mexico, Nevada, Georgia, Tennessee, and Missouri.
They play a national schedule that will include teams like Texas, Southern Cal, FSU, Michigan State, etc...and it shows up in their recruiting.
They have kids on their current roster (includes 2014 signeees) from:
California, Washington, South Carolina, Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, New York, District of Columbia, Pennsylvania, Texas, Minnesota, Virginia, New Jersey, Michigan, Iowa, Kentucky, Arizona, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Mexico, Nevada, Georgia, Tennessee, and Missouri.
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Very interesting and you're points rings true to me? They do have a strong,fanatical core though and probably always will.
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A lot of people either love or hate Notre Dame. Either way it makes people tune into them... I personally am not a fan, but I still watched the National Championship game with Notre Dame in it because I wanted to see Alabama crush them.
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As I have mentioned before, so take it as a caveat on my ND opinions, I was educated grades 1-12 by Dominicans and Jesuits.
Even the very old battle axes of nuns like Sister Connie Sue (Sister Consuela), loved to talk about Notre Dame. Would always drop that she had once met so and so.
The deep south of the 1950's, was virulently anti-Catholic and was considered "mission territory". Many of the nuns and priests were exported from Ireland. Notre Dame was a banner of green in a sea of orange. And they cheered on the Irish and brainwashed several generations of catholic educated kids.
Even the very old battle axes of nuns like Sister Connie Sue (Sister Consuela), loved to talk about Notre Dame. Would always drop that she had once met so and so.
The deep south of the 1950's, was virulently anti-Catholic and was considered "mission territory". Many of the nuns and priests were exported from Ireland. Notre Dame was a banner of green in a sea of orange. And they cheered on the Irish and brainwashed several generations of catholic educated kids.
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The Highland's and Islands were also Scottish strongholds of Catholicism who eventually(b4 the IrishC) emigrated to Canada and the US after Bonnie Prince Charles the so called Pretender fled to France with Flora(MacEachern)- MacDonalds help from the isles and eventually died loyalist in NC.
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