Schools' Realignment Worths

[SubbaBub]

ND is valuable for the same reason American Idol is valuable. The casual consumer knows what it is and may check it out once in a while.

 

[billybud]

ND is valuable for the same reason American Idol is valuable. The casual consumer knows what it is and may check it out once in a while.

Absolutely!

And those who choose not to realize that college football is big entertainment will miss the boat.

Media contracts in the billions, coaches making $4-5 million per year is not about football value...it is about entertainment value.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Not exactly. The Big East stopped being a power conference when too many of the members that played the highest revenue sport (football) left. Any current P-5 conference could suffer a similar fate if something were to happen to cause enough members to leave for another conference. The BE's fatal flaw was that inherit in its design (which was reasonable as it was the initial purpose of the conference) was allowing too much power (relative to other major conferences) to basketball only members. The result of this was the instability that led to the football members being willing participants in raids from other conferences. Our football members were easier pickings solelybecause of the makeup of our conference.

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

The Big East was a victim of bad TV contracts that resulted from the fact that Miami was one more Luther Campbell interview away from the death penalty when the Big East signed its TV deal in the mid 90's. That, together with the fact that BC was mired in a gambling scandal, Nehlen was running out the string at WVU, and Pitt, Rutgers and Temple were all terrible in football, was what cost the Big East. That TV contract was deservedly terrible, and the conference never recovered.

Basketball was carrying the league back then, and even hoops was suffering. Thompson was getting old, Lappas was not the answer at Villanova, and basically UConn, Syracuse and to a lesser extent St. Johns were carrying the league. Miami, VTech and BC were attendance and ratings poison for the league.

That bad 90's deal left the league vulnerable to a raid in 2003, which lead to another bad TV deal, which lead to the final demise.

 

[Sportsman5]

ND has a very small alumni base, but a very large fan base. The student body makes up less than 10% of the stadium but they have sold out every game but one since 1963. I don't think there is another school in the country that has a student body that makes up only 10% of the stadium? I guess there is a chicken or egg situation here , is ND popular because it has it's own network deal, or do they have their own network deal because they are popular. I think they have the network deal because they are popular which is why the Big Ten, Big 12, and ACC all wanted them.

There are die hard fans that live in the area. That is absolutely correct. No doubt that ND has a very solid and passionate fan base around the campus and in major cities where there are a lot of alumni like New York City and Chicago. However, the ratings on TV are mostly because of hype for games and prime time spots. I live in the Boston area and have never met a ND fan that does not have a direct connection to the school. One would think Boston could be a place where ND would be popular because of the Irish Catholic connection and no natural college football team to root for but a very passionate football fan base (it's just a fact for BC unfortunately. i rooted for them growing up and it was embarrassing because the fan support was so bad) There's going to be basically no support in places where college football is big and there are major state schools to root for. There are plenty of eye balls watching ND play because people love college football and ND is on prime time against many good opponents, but they are not fans of ND. Again, ND is special because of the TV network connection. I'm not saying that if they lose that than they fall off the face of the earth. I'm saying they will drop back into the 2nd tier of teams with very good local fan support and tradition. ND has disadvantages like being a small religious affiliated school and fairly isolated in a cold environment. So recruiting will be tougher for them in a lot of ways than USC, Miami, or Texas. That doesn't mean that tradition, fan support, and academics won't draw recruits. However, you would have to be extremely optimistic to think ND could compete on equal ground with the top 10 teams in the country. It is well documented that recruits choose ND because of the TV exposure they get. It's obvious why a recruit would still choose ND if they were a part of the big 10 over schools like UConn, Wake forest, or even Indiana. But why would they choose ND over Michigan or Stanford? Its seems like Michigan and Stanford can offer everything ND can, but also give a different college experience that most athletes would prefer. This transition wouldn't' happen over night. There would still be about 5 years after joining a conference that ND would enjoy their advantages, but that would begin to fade soon after.

 

[billybud]

Notre Dame is a national team....not a regional interest.

They play a national schedule that will include teams like Texas, Southern Cal, FSU, Michigan State, etc...and it shows up in their recruiting.

They have kids on their current roster (includes 2014 signeees) from:

California, Washington, South Carolina, Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, New York, District of Columbia, Pennsylvania, Texas, Minnesota, Virginia, New Jersey, Michigan, Iowa, Kentucky, Arizona, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Mexico, Nevada, Georgia, Tennessee, and Missouri.

 

[NickyNewark]

There are die hard fans that live in the area. That is absolutely correct. No doubt that ND has a very solid and passionate fan base around the campus and in major cities where there are a lot of alumni like New York City and Chicago. However, the ratings on TV are mostly because of hype for games and prime time spots. I live in the Boston area and have never met a ND fan that does not have a direct connection to the school. One would think Boston could be a place where ND would be popular because of the Irish Catholic connection and no natural college football team to root for but a very passionate football fan base (it's just a fact for BC unfortunately. i rooted for them growing up and it was embarrassing because the fan support was so bad) There's going to be basically no support in places where college football is big and there are major state schools to root for. There are plenty of eye balls watching ND play because people love college football and ND is on prime time against many good opponents, but they are not fans of ND. Again, ND is special because of the TV network connection. I'm not saying that if they lose that than they fall off the face of the earth. I'm saying they will drop back into the 2nd tier of teams with very good local fan support and tradition. ND has disadvantages like being a small religious affiliated school and fairly isolated in a cold environment. So recruiting will be tougher for them in a lot of ways than USC, Miami, or Texas. That doesn't mean that tradition, fan support, and academics won't draw recruits. However, you would have to be extremely optimistic to think ND could compete on equal ground with the top 10 teams in the country. It is well documented that recruits choose ND because of the TV exposure they get. It's obvious why a recruit would still choose ND if they were a part of the big 10 over schools like UConn, Wake forest, or even Indiana. But why would they choose ND over Michigan or Stanford? Its seems like Michigan and Stanford can offer everything ND can, but also give a different college experience that most athletes would prefer. This transition wouldn't' happen over night. There would still be about 5 years after joining a conference that ND would enjoy their advantages, but that would begin to fade soon after.

Very interesting and you're points rings true to me? They do have a strong,fanatical core though and probably always will.

 

[HawkHusky]

A lot of people either love or hate Notre Dame. Either way it makes people tune into them... I personally am not a fan, but I still watched the National Championship game with Notre Dame in it because I wanted to see Alabama crush them.

 

[billybud]

As I have mentioned before, so take it as a caveat on my ND opinions, I was educated grades 1-12 by Dominicans and Jesuits.

Even the very old battle axes of nuns like Sister Connie Sue (Sister Consuela), loved to talk about Notre Dame. Would always drop that she had once met so and so.

The deep south of the 1950's, was virulently anti-Catholic and was considered "mission territory". Many of the nuns and priests were exported from Ireland. Notre Dame was a banner of green in a sea of orange. And they cheered on the Irish and brainwashed several generations of catholic educated kids.

 

[billybud]

I would think, that like BYU's following by the LDS folks, there is a certain casual following of Notre Dame by folks nominally raised catholic.

Much more so then for Fredo (BC), their weak little brother.

 

[NickyNewark]

As I have mentioned before, so take it as a caveat on my ND opinions, I was educated grades 1-12 by Dominicans and Jesuits.

Even the very old battle axes of nuns like Sister Connie Sue (Sister Consuela), loved to talk about Notre Dame. Would always drop that she had once met so and so.

The deep south of the 1950's, was virulently anti-Catholic and was considered "mission territory". Many of the nuns and priests were exported from Ireland. Notre Dame was a banner of green in a sea of orange. And they cheered on the Irish and brainwashed several generations of catholic educated kids.

The Highland's and Islands were also Scottish strongholds of Catholicism who eventually(b4 the IrishC) emigrated to Canada and the US after Bonnie Prince Charles the so called Pretender fled to France with Flora(MacEachern)- MacDonalds help from the isles and eventually died loyalist in NC.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

The Big East was a victim of bad TV contracts that resulted from the fact that Miami was one more Luther Campbell interview away from the death penalty when the Big East signed its TV deal in the mid 90's. That, together with the fact that BC was mired in a gambling scandal, Nehlen was running out the string at WVU, and Pitt, Rutgers and Temple were all terrible in football, was what cost the Big East. That TV contract was deservedly terrible, and the conference never recovered.

Basketball was carrying the league back then, and even hoops was suffering. Thompson was getting old, Lappas was not the answer at Villanova, and basically UConn, Syracuse and to a lesser extent St. Johns were carrying the league. Miami, VTech and BC were attendance and ratings poison for the league.

That bad 90's deal left the league vulnerable to a raid in 2003, which lead to another bad TV deal, which lead to the final demise.

I realize that your dream is for UConn to give up on football and return to where we play Seton Hall and Providence home and home in men's basketball every year but this is clouding your judgement. The simple fact is the no school that was already in a major conference would have considered moving to the BE and when other major conferences were expanding, not one considered adding the likes of Georgetown, Villanova or St John's. The hybrid BE model was never sustainable.

 

[TerryD]

There are die hard fans that live in the area. That is absolutely correct. No doubt that ND has a very solid and passionate fan base around the campus and in major cities where there are a lot of alumni like New York City and Chicago. However, the ratings on TV are mostly because of hype for games and prime time spots. I live in the Boston area and have never met a ND fan that does not have a direct connection to the school. One would think Boston could be a place where ND would be popular because of the Irish Catholic connection and no natural college football team to root for but a very passionate football fan base (it's just a fact for BC unfortunately. i rooted for them growing up and it was embarrassing because the fan support was so bad) There's going to be basically no support in places where college football is big and there are major state schools to root for. There are plenty of eye balls watching ND play because people love college football and ND is on prime time against many good opponents, but they are not fans of ND. Again, ND is special because of the TV network connection. I'm not saying that if they lose that than they fall off the face of the earth. I'm saying they will drop back into the 2nd tier of teams with very good local fan support and tradition. ND has disadvantages like being a small religious affiliated school and fairly isolated in a cold environment. So recruiting will be tougher for them in a lot of ways than USC, Miami, or Texas. That doesn't mean that tradition, fan support, and academics won't draw recruits. However, you would have to be extremely optimistic to think ND could compete on equal ground with the top 10 teams in the country. It is well documented that recruits choose ND because of the TV exposure they get. It's obvious why a recruit would still choose ND if they were a part of the big 10 over schools like UConn, Wake forest, or even Indiana. But why would they choose ND over Michigan or Stanford? Its seems like Michigan and Stanford can offer everything ND can, but also give a different college experience that most athletes would prefer. This transition wouldn't' happen over night. There would still be about 5 years after joining a conference that ND would enjoy their advantages, but that would begin to fade soon after.

Sorry, but those are a lot of typed words to be so fundamentally wrong.

Are you trying to convince yourself?

ND was special and popular before television existed and will be for a very long time in the future, conference affiliation or not.

I have seen and heard this kind of stuff my whole life (I am 56), yet ND is still very popular and very financially successful.

ND recruits well, but not because it is on NBC. Funny, I keep hearing that ND's advantage there has been eroded because today "everyone is on TV", yet ND keeps signing highly rated classes.

Most kids talk about academics, tradition and the good feeling they get when they visit the campus when they commit to ND, more so than mentioning the NBC deal.

Those 80,975 folks who travel from all over the country to see ND play don't do so because ND has an NBC contract.

Local fan support has very little to do with ND's ratings, attendance, leading apparel contract or other barometers of success.

Neither does alumni support. It is the support of multi-generational (mostly) Catholic families around the country that pass on their loyalty and love of ND to their kids and grandkids.

My Irish born, emigrant grandfather who ended up a coal miner near Pittsburgh became an ND fan when the Irish beat Army in 1913. Every member of my very large, extended family have been fans of Notre Dame ever since.

100 years, everyone, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, cousins, grandchildren, you name it.

My parents went to an ND game for their honeymoon in 1939. My brother started his letters home from South Vietnam in the fall of 1966 with the question "How did the Irish do?"

My nephew serving in Afghanistan last year got ND gear sent to him there to outfit the Afghan National Police he was training and serving with.

His daughter is 16 and is a huge ND fan, despite living in Alabama (next to Fort Benning) for most of her life. They now live near Fort Lewis, Washington and my nephew flies an ND flag from his house and has an ND sticker on his bumper.

Go to any ND home game and check the license plates of the cars in the parking lots. Check the number of private planes from all over the country.

I graduated from LSU Law School. My two sons graduated from LSU's School of Engineering. We don't like LSU athletics, will not travel eight miles to watch LSU play but will drive 1000 miles to attend an ND home game.

My oldest son and I are driving 7 hours from Baton Rouge to San Antonio this weekend to see ND play teams like Santa Clara and Gonzaga in baseball at the annual "Irish Classic" that ND sponsors there every spring.

We will drive past Alex Box Stadium where LSU plays baseball, about eight miles from my house. No interest in seeing the Tigers, but I and my family members drive to San Antonio, Corpus Christi and Houston to see ND baseball.

We get 14-18 family members from Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Pennsylvania and Maryland to travel to an ND home football game every other year. We meet up and rent a house near the stadium for the weekend.

Families like mine exist all over the country.

That popularity and loyalty is present from coast to coast and would not "fade soon after" if ND joined the ACC in football. It is ingrained.


P.S. You don't think that ABC/ESPN would nationally televise most/all ND football games if it joined the ACC?

You don't think that maybe the ACC would agree to carve out the NBC contract if ND ever agreed to play eight or nine ACC games per year?

 

[Rondogg]

I fricken hate ND for every reason you just mentioned. You have no affiliation at all with the school but you root for them because your family conditioned you to. Way to think for yourselves (slow golf clap)!

 

[TerryD]

I fricken hate ND for every reason you just mentioned. You have no affiliation at all with the school but you root for them because your family conditioned you to. Way to think for yourselves (slow golf clap)!

I have a 100 year family affiliation with ND. I can think for myself just fine, thanks.

I don't think that "affiliation" is limited to alumni status. Does UConn reject all non-alumni fans? Bar them from the games? Refuse their ticket and apparel money? Blackout their televisions?

My guess is that UConn would love to have the number and geographic location of those "unaffiliated" fans that ND does.

I don't believe in states' rights, which I think died at Appomattox. I never got the whole "state pride" thing. I was born and raised in Pennsylvania, but always disliked Joe Paterno and Penn State, even way back to about 1968 or so.

 

[Rondogg]

You and your family blindly follow marching orders given to you 100 years ago and yet you "think for yourself"? Do you realize how dumb that sounds?

 

[billybud]

Jeez...such uninformed posts....75% of the football fans of most big name football schools (Bama, FSU, Notre Dame, USC, Michigan) never spent an hour in class on campus.

They are fans of the school for other reasons...

 

[WestHartHusk]

I hate ND because their benhavior as an athletic institution is so anti-thetical to their professed values as a university.

Go to their website and you will see that their goal is to build "an authetic human community graced by the 'Spirit of Christ'" through service and community flowing from the vision of . Yet through every action it is clear that ND only cares about the 'ND community' and its exceptionalism that we must all accept. An exceptionalism, Terry's protestation notwithstanding, that was built by the religious/commercial approval of Irish Roman Catholics and the newspapers (and now cable) that supported them.

The only action that the ND exceptionalists even attempt to point to as a show of benevolence is their annual game with Navy. Of course, the professed reason for the game is that the Navy single-handedly saved ND from bankruptcy during WWII by establishing a training center at ND. But that belies what is probably the truth - it keeps ND in good graces with the government should they need to be bailed out again, and it provides them a game in the D.C. area. Of course, the game has never actually been played at Navy's school, go figure.

 

[Rondogg]

Jeez...such uninformed posts....75% of the football fans of most big name football schools (Bama, FSU, Notre Dame, USC, Michigan) never spent an hour in class on campus.

They are fans of the school for other reasons...

Yes but nothing as dumb as following a team for 100 years because your family told you to and then claim to be able to think for yourself! I never took a class at UConn (USCe Grad) but they are my favorite team because I chose them, not because someone 100 years told me to.

 

[Irishfan]

I fricken hate ND for every reason you just mentioned. You have no affiliation at all with the school but you root for them because your family conditioned you to. Way to think for yourselves (slow golf clap)!

As a long time ND fan I have to say that my favorite type of football fan is TerryD. One who loves ND for no apparent reason. My second favorite type of football fan is Rondogg. One who hates ND for no apparent reason. These two are wonderful examples as to why it is fun to be an ND fan. I can go just about anywhere in the country during football season and end up in a conversation regarding ND football. Not many teams generate that much passion going either way. Which could be why the Big Ten, ACC and the Big 12 all want us.

Thanks to both of you. (and any of you who fall into either camp)

 

[WestHartHusk]

As a long time ND fan I have to say that my favorite type of football fan is TerryD. One who loves ND for no apparent reason. My second favorite type of football fan is Rondogg. One who hates ND for no apparent reason. These two are wonderful examples as to why it is fun to be an ND fan. I can go just about anywhere in the country during football season and end up in a conversation regarding ND football. Not many teams generate that much passion going either way. Which could be why the Big Ten, ACC and the Big 12 all want us.

Thanks to both of you. (and any of you who fall into either camp)

Those four lines made me laugh at my computer.

 

[billybud]

LOL

And ain't that so true....

A polarizer....but I find the same thing about Bama...folks love 'em, or hate 'em.

 

[tzznandrew]

I fricken hate ND for every reason you just mentioned. You have no affiliation at all with the school but you root for them because your family conditioned you to. Way to think for yourselves (slow golf clap)!

Wait, your father didn't condition you to love UConn, or any other team for that matter?

If you didn't attend or play for your favorite school/team, your devotion is ultimately arbitrary, and usually related to where you're born...which is, of course, your parents' decision.

I'm a UConn, Celtics, Mets fan entirely because that's what my dad watched, and so that's what I watched. Some things change; my dad was raised Catholic, and so pulled for Notre Dame, but as UConn went DI and he saw what they were doing to the BE, he turned on them. I haven't quite turned on them as much, but I don't pull for them at all, anymore, unless they're playing a team like Alabama.

 

[TerryD]

You and your family blindly follow marching orders given to you 100 years ago and yet you "think for yourself"? Do you realize how dumb that sounds?

Jeez, I have two degrees and have successfully practiced law for 27 years. I believe that I possess adequate critical thinking skills.

It would have been the easiest thing in the world to be an LSU fan in Baton Rouge. My Firm even represents the Tiger Athletic Foundation. Luxury box ticket availability, tailgating, all of my friends and co-workers are die hard LSU fans. I could have fallen in line with everyone else here.

I looked at everything and rejected the idea of becoming an LSU fan, on my own, using my own powers of reasoning. It is a difficult thing to be an ND fan in LSU country. But, I could not see myself rooting for the Tigers. I chose to remain an ND fan. Sorry if that bothers you (actually, no, I am not).

I get to decide who to root for. I don't care who you root for, or why. It is none of my business, just like who I root for is none of yours.

 

[billybud]

Heck...certain folks probably would cheer for the University of Tehran before Notre Dame.

Those pesky Irish...and catholic to boot.

 

[TerryD]

I hate ND because their benhavior as an athletic institution is so anti-thetical to their professed values as a university.

Go to their website and you will see that their goal is to build "an authetic human community graced by the 'Spirit of Christ'" through service and community flowing from the vision of . Yet through every action it is clear that ND only cares about the 'ND community' and its exceptionalism that we must all accept. An exceptionalism, Terry's protestation notwithstanding, that was built by the religious/commercial approval of Irish Roman Catholics and the newspapers (and now cable) that supported them.

The only action that the ND exceptionalists even attempt to point to as a show of benevolence is their annual game with Navy. Of course, the professed reason for the game is that the Navy single-handedly saved ND from bankruptcy during WWII by establishing a training center at ND. But that belies what is probably the truth - it keeps ND in good graces with the government should they need to be bailed out again, and it provides them a game in the D.C. area. Of course, the game has never actually been played at Navy's school, go figure.

Navy makes more money having "home" games with ND at places like Fed Ex Field than if they played at Annapolis. Ask Navy if they decide where to play ND for their home games or if ND puts a gun to their head.

Hey, does Army play Navy at Annapolis for at some other venues?