OT: Pikiell's doing good work

[upstater]

This makes zero sense.

2015: A top-25, 5-star combo guard (Jalen), a top 100, 4-star big man (Enoch) and 2 of the top 3 postgrad transfers
2016: A top 10 overall class including a McDonald's all-american PG, a high-4-star SF and a high-4-star PF, and borderline 4-star PF & SG
2017: 4-star SF, 4-star C, 3-star PF, one high-rated JuCo transfer and one low-rated JuCo transfer
2018: 4-star top 60 SF, 4-star top-100 PG, 4-star top-150 C, high 3-star SF

Is it as good as our glory days? No. Is it good enough to get us into the top 2 of the AAC and top 20 overall? Hell yes.

Recruiting can bet better, but it damn sure isn't the problem.

EDIT: And let me just add that we've had multiple 4-stars commit and then go elsewhere during this time (MAL, Prince Ali, Willie Jackson).

This is filled with flawed 4 star players though.
Jalen & Alterique were good gets. Vance was a top 25 player that plummeted in the rankings as people saw his game, dropped closer to 100 than 50. Vance was hurt, and while here he lumbered around and played soft. Enoch was clearly over-ranked. We have plenty of posters from the Fairfield area who were more than dubious about Enoch having seen him play live multiple times. Seems the fans here knew more about him than the national analysts (note: I'm not saying Ollie shouldn't have recruited him, but rather that he played like a project ranked 200-300). Carlton, a 250 ranked kid, needs a lot less development.
As for 2017, was Carlton considered a 4-star?

 

[Matrim55]

This is filled with flawed 4 star players though.

lol

 

[superjohn]

This is filled with flawed 4 star players though.
Jalen & Alterique were good gets. Vance was a top 25 player that plummeted in the rankings as people saw his game, dropped closer to 100 than 50. Vance was hurt, and while here he lumbered around and played soft. Enoch was clearly over-ranked. We have plenty of posters from the Fairfield area who were more than dubious about Enoch having seen him play live multiple times. Seems the fans here knew more about him than the national analysts (note: I'm not saying Ollie shouldn't have recruited him, but rather that he played like a project ranked 200-300). Carlton, a 250 ranked kid, needs a lot less development.
As for 2017, was Carlton considered a 4-star?

And yet Louisville wanted Enoch and Notre Dame wanted Durham. The three kids who left are more talented than anyone on our roster not named Jalen, Alterique, and Larrier. Vance is a better shooter than anyone on the roster.

 

[mauconnfan]

Like I said, we'll know more at the end of January. But their three losses all came against ranked teams (FSU, Minnesota & Sparty), and they played two of those – FSU & Sparty – hella tough. Sparty in particular struggled a lot more with Rutgers than they did with UConn.

Did they lose Sanders in the MSU game? Because that would be equal to us losing Gilbert.

Again they have a lot to prove.

 

[UConnNick]

Jesus could coach Rutgers and I’d hate them and want them to lose every game.

Is Jesus available? Can we get him? Of course there's Jesus, and then there's "Hey, Zeus!"

 

[AdamaNation]

This makes zero sense.

2015: A top-25, 5-star combo guard (Jalen), a top 100, 4-star big man (Enoch) and 2 of the top 3 postgrad transfers
2016: A top 10 overall class including a McDonald's all-american PG, a high-4-star SF and a high-4-star PF, and borderline 4-star PF & SG
2017: 4-star SF, 4-star C, 3-star PF, one high-rated JuCo transfer and one low-rated JuCo transfer
2018: 4-star top 60 SF, 4-star top-100 PG, 4-star top-150 C, high 3-star SF

Is it as good as our glory days? No. Is it good enough to get us into the top 2 of the AAC and top 20 overall? Hell yes.

Recruiting can bet better, but it damn sure isn't the problem.

EDIT: And let me just add that we've had multiple 4-stars commit and then go elsewhere during this time (MAL, Prince Ali, Willie Jackson).

Post comment is based on the overall melodrama of the board in general hence the “” of struggling.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Pikiell won 20+ games at Stony Brook six of his last seven years there, only got the NCAA autobid once, but got three NIT bids and two CBIs. At Stony Brook, in one of the worst conferences in the country to recruit for, that's a pretty darn good record. Remains to be seen if he can recruit and coach consistently at the top level, but if he can turn Rutgers into a respectable and competitive B1G basketball program, that's a clear sign he's got the right stuff.

 

[upstater]

And yet Louisville wanted Enoch and Notre Dame wanted Durham. The three kids who left are more talented than anyone on our roster not named Jalen, Alterique, and Larrier. Vance is a better shooter than anyone on the roster.

Right on Vance. But go talk to Louisville fans. All last year they were complaining about their bigs and about Pitino's lack of ability to develop them.

 

[intlzncster]

With Donyell – who's done great work in his 18 months at CCSU – as associate head coach/big man coach!

Wouldn't that be going back to 'keep it in the family' method here?

 

[Matrim55]

Wouldn't that be going back to 'keep it in the family' method here?

While "keep it in the family" was a big reason KO got the job, "keep it in the family" is not the reason he's struggling with it. Right now it just looks like he's not that good a head coach and is probably better cut out to be an assistant.

Hiring Pikiell would be a totally different proposition. If he gets the job he'll have been a head coach for 13 years, the last 2 at a P5 school that heavily recruits the northeast. He has 225ish career wins, multiple postseason appearances, built a program from scratch and looks like he's in the process of resurrecting another from the dead. There is no question he can lead a program.

Hiring Donyell as his associate head coach would address a clear need – we haven't successfully developed our big men for a decade, right? And while there would be questions about his ability to recruit high-level talent (he's never done it), he's put in the work as an assistant for more than half a decade, and as a head coach for two years. And his team (traditionally one of the worst in the country) is improving.

Beyond that, "keep it in the family" could actually be an asset on the recruiting trail. UConn, as it stands, is not going to be a 15-20 year "destination school" for most coaches at this point, so every recruit would hear "yeah, he's after you but he'll be coaching at Michigan/Maryland/Virginia/Tennessee next year." The idea of UConn as a stepping stone would be a weapon.

Not against Pikiell, though. If he comes here, he's here to stay.

Is that a good enough reason to hire him, should the need arise? Not if there are better candidates out there.

But at the same time the fact that he's definitely part of the UConn family should not be a strike against him at all.

EDIT: And just to be clear, I'm still hoping KO figures this out. From what I've seen and heard, though, I seriously doubt that's going to happen.

 

[8893]

While "keep it in the family" was a big reason KO got the job, "keep it in the family" is not the reason he's struggling with it. Right now it just looks like he's not that good a head coach and is probably better cut out to be an assistant.

Hiring Pikiell would be a totally different proposition. If he gets the job he'll have been a head coach for 13 years, the last 2 at a P5 school that heavily recruits the northeast. He has 225ish career wins, multiple postseason appearances, built a program from scratch and looks like he's in the process of resurrecting another from the dead. There is no question he can lead a program.

Hiring Donyell as his associate head coach would address a clear need – we haven't successfully developed our big men for a decade, right? And while there would be questions about his ability to recruit high-level talent (he's never done it), he's put in the work as an assistant for more than half a decade, and as a head coach for two years. And his team (traditionally one of the worst in the country) is improving.

Beyond that, "keep it in the family" could actually be an asset on the recruiting trail. UConn, as it stands, is not going to be a 15-20 year "destination school" for most coaches at this point, so every recruit would hear "yeah, he's after you but he'll be coaching at Michigan/Maryland/Virginia/Tennessee next year." The idea of UConn as a stepping stone would be a weapon.

Not against Pikiell, though. If he comes here, he's here to stay.

Is that a good enough reason to hire him, should the need arise? Not if there are better candidates out there.

But at the same time the fact that he's definitely part of the UConn family should not be a strike against him at all.

EDIT: And just to be clear, I'm still hoping KO figures this out. From what I've seen and heard, though, I seriously doubt that's going to happen.

Why would Pikiell come here when he is already in the Big Ten at a state university with better resources?

 

[pj]

Why would Pikiell come here when he is already in the Big Ten at a state university with better resources?

This is what I don't understand. Expectations are so low at Rutgers, he's got zero risk of failure. The facilities are poor but they'll get better. If Ollie is fired then you not only have the AAC baggage, and the athletic department losing $30 mn per year in a state with terrible budget problems creating an expectation of athletic funding cut problems baggage, but also the perception that even a national championship is not enough to buy a coach 5 years of job security. I can understand loyalty to past employers or one's alma mater, but when millions of dollars are at stake, you tend to take the certain millions. I'd expect Pikiell to be interested in a UConn opening mainly as a way to leverage a sizable raise out of Rutgers.

 

[Matrim55]

This is what I don't understand. Expectations are so low at Rutgers, he's got zero risk of failure. The facilities are poor but they'll get better. If Ollie is fired then you not only have the AAC baggage, and the athletic department losing $30 mn per year in a state with terrible budget problems creating an expectation of athletic funding cut problems baggage, but also the perception that even a national championship is not enough to buy a coach 5 years of job security. I can understand loyalty to past employers or one's alma mater, but when millions of dollars are at stake, you tend to take the certain millions. I'd expect Pikiell to be interested in a UConn opening mainly as a way to leverage a sizable raise out of Rutgers.

You'd be wrong.

 

[intlzncster]

What Pikiell has done at Rutgers is akin to Moses parting the Red Sea or Jesus walking on water.

I'm a believer, and if KO moves on we need to pry him loose from them.

Pikiell will have bigger schools offering top dollar for his services.

Rutgers will miss him when he's gone. I wonder how far he takes them, he's special.

Why when looking at other teams are the expectations so low.?

He was 15–18 last year. 3–15 in conference for 14th place.

This year, he's beaten Seton Hall. Nice win, but if you're looking at Rutgers performance only, that's a pretty low bar for the next 'great' head coach. Now if he were to win the Big Ten, that would be Moses parting the red sea.

Obviously, Pikiell context includes Stony Brook et al.

 

[superjohn]

Why when looking at other teams are the expectations so low.?

He was 15–18 last year. 3–15 in conference for 14th place.

This year, he's beaten Seton Hall. Nice win, but if you're looking at Rutgers performance only, that's a pretty low bar for the next 'great' head coach. Now if he were to win the Big Ten, that would be Moses parting the red sea.

Obviously, Pikiell context includes Stony Brook et al.

And we've got posters here saying Pikiell is too big for UConn. This is a really strange place.

 

[intlzncster]

Pikiell is a good coach there is no denying that, and he is doing it at places that are hard to win at. Pikiell knows how to coach, motivate, and has an identity that he wants his to play with. I'm sure that AD Dave is monitoring the situation and the next 2 games against Arizona and Auburn will tell him everything he needs to know about Ollie and the program moving forward.

These next 3 games will tell us nothing. We have a punchers chance against Auburn. That's it. The regular season in the AAC is what will determine KO's fate.

 

[Matrim55]

These next 3 games will tell us nothing. We have a punchers chance against Auburn. That's it. The regular season in the AAC is what will determine KO's fate.

If we lose by 30 again, it will tell us quite a bit.

 

[intlzncster]

If we lose by 30 again, it will tell us quite a bit.

Against Auburn yes, but if Zona comes out hot, they will steam roll. JMO. Honestly, for me, it'll depend how they fight back. If they are playing all out, and get rolled, well, c'est la vie.

 

[8893]

And we've got posters here saying Pikiell is too big for UConn. This is a really strange place.

No, what I’m saying is that he may have the opportunity to do there what Calhoun did here. Here, the expectations are much higher, and we eat our young.

 

[Matrim55]

No, what I’m saying is that he may have the opportunity to do there what Calhoun did here. Here, the expectations are much higher, and we eat our young.

How so? KO has never won the conference, just had the first losing season in 30 years here, has missed the tourney two out of the last three years, had a raft of 4-star players transfer/decommit, forced out a top, long-time assistant in ugly fashion, and just guided the team to their biggest loss in 40 years... and he's fine. There are no protests, most commentaries have been rational, and the expectation is "hey, just make the tourney and you're still our guy." People aren't chanting "Fire Ollie!" at games, they're not hurling abuse at him and his players, etc etc etc. The bar is not unreasonably high.

So in no possible sense can that be considered "eating our young." And I'm happy about that! We shouldn't be s to him or these kids. But we should expect winning seasons near the top of the conference, some stability and in-game improvement. None of that's happened, but there are still tons of folks out there defending him.

It's a good job and the fanbase will rally around anybody who gets us to the top of the AAC and into the second weekend of the tourney every other year.

 

[tentoes4rings]

No, what I’m saying is that he may have the opportunity to do there what Calhoun did here. Here, the expectations are much higher, and we eat our young.

What makes you say this though? When was the last time the program even had a young coach? And are you insinuating KO isn’t being given enough of a chance? If so I’d argue most reasonable posters agreed to give him this year to prove what he can do with a full roster. If the team doesn’t show significant progress, 4 straight bad years would be a large enough body of evidence to rightfully dismiss any coach.

 

[Huskybass]

Why would Pikiell come here when he is already in the Big Ten at a state university with better resources?

He would come here because he is a UConn guy and this is a much better job than the Rutgers job.

 

[SouthBayHusky]

Why would Pikiell come here when he is already in the Big Ten at a state university with better resources?

Here’s 1 - $3.1M. Uconn values and pays a Top 10 coach’s salary. And maybe because there’s just a TON more history here in Connecticut than Rutgers, and don’t even begin to compare their facilities compared to Uconn. Lastly, there’s also his personal history, allegiance and connection to the school. It seems ridiculous to hear these why would they come here arguments. We’re still a brand and we’re still a school that values and will pay top salary for its coaches.

 

[uconnbill]

No, what I’m saying is that he may have the opportunity to do there what Calhoun did here. Here, the expectations are much higher, and we eat our young.

That's what family does, eat their own.

I honestly would rather go outside if for some reason HCKO isn't here after this season or sometime in the near future.

 

[8893]

How so? KO has never won the conference, just had the first losing season in 30 years here, has missed the tourney two out of the last three years, had a raft of 4-star players transfer/decommit, forced out a top, long-time assistant in ugly fashion, and just guided the team to their biggest loss in 40 years... and he's fine. There are no protests, most commentaries have been rational, and the expectation is "hey, just make the tourney and you're still our guy." People aren't chanting "Fire Ollie!" at games, they're not hurling abuse at him and his players, etc etc etc. The bar is not unreasonably high.

So in no possible sense can that be considered "eating our young." And I'm happy about that! We shouldn't be s to him or these kids. But we should expect winning seasons near the top of the conference, some stability and in-game improvement. None of that's happened, but there are still tons of folks out there defending him.

It's a good job and the fanbase will rally around anybody who gets us to the top of the AAC and into the second weekend of the tourney every other year.

What makes you say this though? When was the last time the program even had a young coach? And are you insinuating KO isn’t being given enough of a chance? If so I’d argue most reasonable posters agreed to give him this year to prove what he can do with a full roster. If the team doesn’t show significant progress, 4 straight bad years would be a large enough body of evidence to rightfully dismiss any coach.

I read this bored much differently. I am not saying that the criticism is unfair, and maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I feel like it's become the equivalent of lining his route to work with billboards advertising for his job or pitching a better destination for his players. Yes, there are a lot of people more reasoned here, but that doesn't erase the spectacle that the vocal mob has become.

I suppose it's also a reflection of the times. Hot takes go viral because they are published instantly, tweeted, posted, etc.; and civility is at an all-time low (add old man yelling at clouds or "said every generation ever" here).

No one is happy with where we are, but UConn hoops has always been a happy place for me, even when we sucked. As silly as it seems, it's like family to me; like we're married to the coach (and the players) until we are divorced. The open pining for replacements and envisioning of entirely different staff is hard for me to reconcile with hoping KO and this team can succeed.

I don't know Pikiell or what he's thinking. I like him. If I was him, it would be hard not to consider how high the bar is here compared to where he is now; how it turned out here for the last beloved former player turned coach; how Calhoun was able to sell a lowly UConn program to recruits because of the reputation of the conference in which we played and the chance to play against the best; how that mirrors his situation at Rutgers much more than what's going on here.