OT: NBA Finals

[Kembacity]

I just experienced some kembacity type Lebron hate. Lebron takes a little chunk out of his head, will need stiches at half ''this is why I hate Lebron, faking an injury to catch his breath.'' The guy is such a beast, his team is scrub city, I think we will be telling our kids about this series.

Well he didn't fake an injury, but do you understand why he had to dive 10 feet directly into a camera lens?

He got fouled hard, went to the ground, they called the foul, but he bounced off the court like there was a hidden trampoline. That was gruesome as hell, but I don't think it needed to happen, I think it happened because he's LeBron.

I did enjoy a little later, Lebron slashed Iggy's arms as he drove the lane, and Iggy immediately did the Lebron reaction: grab and clutch at the affected area as though a helicopter rotor just lopped off an appendage, wince and grimace so all the fans know you are the equivalent of a Marine fighting for your country.

keep lapping up Lebron's antics buddy, keep on lapping it up

 

[Kembacity]

and Iguodala is HUUUUUGE, I was saying in game 2 they need to use him more. Not only is he so great defensively, he's quick and explosive on offense which they need. Is he the only one on GS with real playoff experience? I remember him as a young pup with Iverson, and I realize that's why they might need him here. The rest of the gang are green youngsters, they need to look up to Iggy and let him lead by example.

I'm rooting for GS but have no problem with Cleveland earning it (other than Dellavedova really annoying me), so I hope its a good rest-of-series and Lebron can keep his dome away from camera lenses. I doubt he had a concussion by the way, his head got smashed, but by a camera lens. Its a thin piece of metal or plastic, so its going to jam right through the skin of the head and bleed, but its not heavy or bolted down, so I doubt the actual collision was that bad

 

[TasteofUConn]

To me, last night's result was a combination of 3 things:
1. Cavs are gassed. Too many minutes for the key guys. Dellavedova was in hospital 40 hours prior to game time. Never a promising sign. For the first game, they looked like the less energetic team. 2 overtime games, a hard fought game 3, and an extremely short bench will do that to you. Somebody needs to figure out where LBJ's minutes, per game per day, rank all time over the first 4 games of a finals. One data point. In 85, Magic played 34, 41, 39, 43 over the 1st 4 games, and each of those games was played on 3 days rest. LBJ has played 46, 51, 46, 41 and those games were played on 3 days rest, 2, and 2. Magic's minutes per day averages to 15.7 minutes per day. LBJ's is 23 minutes per day, or a rate of about 50% greater than what Magic played.

Unlike games 1-3, last night LBJ was taking plays off. I can't imagine the level of exhaustion he must feel, but it must be intense.

2. GSW's changed up the game plan. They started bringing a 2nd guy at LBJ. The change forced MD, JR, and Shumpert to make shots - which they did not. I suppose it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't - this time, it worked out.

3. Shumpert, Smith, and Jones did not bring anything on O. They were a combined 4 for 24 from the field and 0 for 14 from 3. If they double LBJ and these guys can't hit a three, the next two games are going to be 25 point losses.

If there is any doubt about how awful the Cavs are w/out LBJ on the floor, go watch the first 2 minutes of the 4th quarter of game 4. Thee Cavs were down 6 when it began, with LBJ on the bench. The Cavs looked awful. Bad shots, turnovers, poor D. Lead shoots to 10, and LBJ has to come back in. The GSWs 2nd unit probably is a playoff team in the East. The Cavs 2nd unit gets beat by 2015 Kentucky (I'm exaggerating for effect in the last 2 sentences).

Gotta hand it to LeBron - guy is so inhuman that when he's 2 assists shy of a triple double playing his 3rd game in 96 hours logging massive minutes and having pretty much sole responsibility for creating scoring, people are on him and calling him un-clutch. We live in the Twitterverse. People were hard on Curry after game 3 - guy had a great game and single handedly gave the Ws a chance to win. But, apparently, if he doesn't shoot 50% from 3 some people think he had a bad game. Unreal expectations and the ability to publicize opinions within seconds of their creation - bad combination.

 

[JSM1970]

They have to earn it with the 2nd and 3rd best players out. Would Curry realistically have his team in this position if Klay and Barnes or Green were out?

The difference was JR Smith and Shumpert haven't made shots. They have to start for the Cavs to win this.

Delly is a tough player, scraps on every play.

Green would be it for me. Can't stand his antics.

and Iguodala is HUUUUUGE, I was saying in game 2 they need to use him more. Not only is he so great defensively, he's quick and explosive on offense which they need. Is he the only one on GS with real playoff experience? I remember him as a young pup with Iverson, and I realize that's why they might need him here. The rest of the gang are green youngsters, they need to look up to Iggy and let him lead by example.

I'm rooting for GS but have no problem with Cleveland earning it (other than Dellavedova really annoying me), so I hope its a good rest-of-series and Lebron can keep his dome away from camera lenses. I doubt he had a concussion by the way, his head got smashed, but by a camera lens. Its a thin piece of metal or plastic, so its going to jam right through the skin of the head and bleed, but its not heavy or bolted down, so I doubt the actual collision was that bad

 

[Kembacity]

Gotta hand it to LeBron - guy is so inhuman that when he's 2 assists shy of a triple double people playing his 3rd game in 96 hours logging massive minutes and having pretty much sole responsibility for creating scoring, people are on him and calling him un-clutch. We live in the Twitterverse. People were hard on Curry after game 3 - guy had a great game and single handedly gave the Ws a chance to win. But, apparently, if he doesn't shoot 50% from 3 some people think he had a bad game. Unreal expectations and the ability to publicize opinions within seconds of their creation - bad combination.

Oh my god who cares, I'm so very happy to be in the minority of those who aren't just going to lick LBJ's nuts throughout the finals. You're complaining that people are critical of Lebron no matter what he does, but you're championing him no matter what and cant find words strong enough to express your undying love and affection! They lost, the team sucks, its not his fault... but you are not being objective at all

Those who are downing anyone who doesn't love Lebron with all their heart are critical of every face Curry makes and every moment he's on the court, so at least just own up to the fact that you're doing exactly what the non-fans doing but from the opposite position

 

[JSM1970]

Don't compare Curry to LeBron. Curry is a jump shooter, that's all he does, albeit he's the best one.

He has a whiny, pouty look always.

Oh my god who cares, I'm so very happy to be in the minority of those who aren't just going to lick LBJ's nuts throughout the finals. You're complaining that people are critical of Lebron no matter what he does, but you're championing him no matter what and cant find words strong enough to express your undying love and affection! They lost, the team sucks, its not his fault... but you are not being objective at all

Those who are downing anyone who doesn't love Lebron with all their heart are critical of every face Curry makes and every moment he's on the court, so at least just own up to the fact that you're doing exactly what the non-fans doing but from the opposite position

 

[TasteofUConn]

Don't compare Curry to LeBron. Curry is a jump shooter, that's all he does, albeit he's the best one.

Apples to Oranges, no doubt, but perhaps the best apple and the best orange ever.
Curry is much, much more than a jump shooter, and it's completely unfair to compliment his finest attribute and then disregard the rest. He's a phenomenal ball handler, he has great court vision, and he distributes the ball quite well. Guy averages 8 assists per game. That comes from a combination of great court vision and being such a deadly shooter he draws guys away from their assignment. He is a one man defense wrecker, and it's not because of his shooting alone. He is a once in a generation talent.

 

[tzznandrew]

Don't compare Curry to LeBron. Curry is a jump shooter, that's all he does, albeit he's the best one.

He has a whiny, pouty look always.

Curry is more than a jump shooter, although his effectiveness in other facets of the game is increased because he can pull up at any time from anywhere.

 

[J187Money]

I'm leaving Thursday afternoon (pre-riot). Was hoping for a Tuesday evening riot. Don't think they won't riot just because it isn't a home game.

Actually I was wrong - Tuesday is game 6 at home - I will be there.

 

[Matt1010]

There is also the view that clutch has a lot to do with being known as a shooter. Big men/ men whose game revolves around the post are not usually referred to as clutch, because to the naked eye, what is so "big moment and difficult" about doing a drop step layup or a drive to the basket from the free throw line? Clearly LeBron isn't a deadly shooter, which makes the non-clutch argument very easy for people to stand behind. But in crunch time, I highly doubt many people choose anyone but LeBron to ride and die with.

I will ride or die with Bazz over Lebron every day of the week.

 

[tzznandrew]

Game 4 is exactly what I feared would happen after Irving went down in Game 1, but LeBron played well and the Cavs played on adrenaline, and they got two games, somehow, after that injury.

The Cavs have no offense without LeBron. It's just horrid. And their defense has been very good, but it is such a physically exhausting defense that it has worn down by the end of every single game. And Kerr's decision to start playing Lee more has put more stress on the Cavs d.

Meanwhile, the Warriors defense has been very good also, and their offense has more options. While Smith and Shumpert have been bad for the Knicks, a number of key Warriors players had been bad also. We're seeing some of them turn the corner.

Should be an interesting two games. I think the Warriors take Game 5.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Is Kembacity really Skip Bayless?

 

[mauconnfan]

Don't compare Curry to LeBron. Curry is a jump shooter, that's all he does, albeit he's the best one.

He has a whiny, pouty look always.

Only a jump shooter? Yeah he stands there and just waits for someone to pass him the ball, my imagination must be crazy because I also see an unbelievable handle which gets him in the lane leaving guys jocks in the rafters as well as a guy who runs around for 45 minutes trying to get open. Hell I don't watch a lot but to call him a jump shooter only is almost as ridiculous as me not liking the NBA game!

 

[Gurleyman]

Only a jump shooter? Yeah he stands there and just waits for someone to pass him the ball, my imagination must be crazy because I also see an unbelievable handle which gets him in the lane leaving guys jocks in the rafters as well as a guy who runs around for 45 minutes trying to get open. Hell I don't watch a lot but to call him a jump shooter only is almost as ridiculous as me not liking the NBA game!

He's also a terrific passer, albeit a little bit loose with the ball at times (around the back late in G3 being the most egregious example).

 

[Kembacity]

I will ride or die with Bazz over Lebron every day of the week.

The thing I hate the most about watching Delly is the fact that it should be Bazz in that situation. How amazing would it have been if the Cavs somehow got him instead of the dirty Aussie? I would probably own a Cavs jersey, and I mean that 100% honestly

 

[TasteofUConn]

Game 4 is exactly what I feared would happen . . . I think the Warriors take Game 5.

I agree with your assessment. I think the Warriors win in 6. Hat tip to Cavs for making the series more interesting than a blowout. Look forward to the rematch next year.

 

[tzznandrew]

I agree with your assessment. I think the Warriors win in 6. Hat tip to Cavs for making the series more interesting than a blowout. Look forward to the rematch next year.

Let's see what happens to the Spurs, Thunder, Clippers, Rockets, and Pelicans this summer.

A healthy Cavs team will be the heavy favorites out of the East, with or without Love, but West is always absurdly difficult.

If Parker was as bad as he was because of injury, and they bring in someone new (I believe they have cap room), they will be tough because that team would have challenged the Warriors more than the Rockets.

Also, the thought of a healthy Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka with some semblance of an offensive system is terrifying.

 

[UConn990411]

So much stupid in this thread, my brain's having trouble processing all of it.

 

[traitor71]

A healthy Rockets team could be interesting. They dealt with injuries all season long and into the playoffs.

 

[Scoe]

Cavs are definitely winning it all next year, GS better cash in this year. Wouldn't shock me if this is the finals next year.

 

[JSM1970]

Yes, mainly. he does have a great handle. He doesn't score much in the lane. I'd take Wall, Paul or Westbrook over him at PG. I wouldn't take anyone in the league ahead of Bron.

Only a jump shooter? Yeah he stands there and just waits for someone to pass him the ball, my imagination must be crazy because I also see an unbelievable handle which gets him in the lane leaving guys jocks in the rafters as well as a guy who runs around for 45 minutes trying to get open. Hell I don't watch a lot but to call him a jump shooter only is almost as ridiculous as me not liking the NBA game!

 

[Tommyboy]

Only a jump shooter? Yeah he stands there and just waits for someone to pass him the ball, my imagination must be crazy because I also see an unbelievable handle which gets him in the lane leaving guys jocks in the rafters as well as a guy who runs around for 45 minutes trying to get open. Hell I don't watch a lot but to call him a jump shooter only is almost as ridiculous as me not liking the NBA game!

Craig Hodges was robbed of multiple MVP awards. Always going to that ball hog teammate of his.

 

[gtcam]

Don't compare Curry to LeBron. Curry is a jump shooter, that's all he does, albeit he's the best one.

He has a whiny, pouty look always.

You have made a ridiculous and uneducated statement
Curry is much more than a jump shooter
Your statement is total asinine

Curry's making faces and giving looks are one thing - all players do it
The biggest whinner is the king himself LBJ - he doth never commits a foul and EVERY step to the basket he takes he is, according to his voice, hacked to death.

He may be , in some people's terms, the greatest basketball player on earth, but to me he has turned into an all time top five complainer and whinner.
He's too good to think it needed to be such a emoter (sic)

 

[mets1090]

So....did anyone else see LeBron flash his package on live TV?

 

[August_West]

So....did anyone else see LeBron flash his package on live TV?

Yeah man. He's no Michael Jordan

 

[Gurleyman]

To me, last night's result was a combination of 3 things: 1. Cavs are gassed. Too many minutes for the key guys. Dellavedova was in hospital 40 hours prior to game time. Never a promising sign. For the first game, they looked like the less energetic team. 2 overtime games, a hard fought game 3, and an extremely short bench will do that to you. Somebody needs to figure out where LBJ's minutes, per game per day, rank all time over the first 4 games of a finals. One data point. In 85, Magic played 34, 41, 39, 43 over the 1st 4 games, and each of those games was played on 3 days rest. LBJ has played 46, 51, 46, 41 and those games were played on 3 days rest, 2, and 2. Magic's minutes per day averages to 15.7 minutes per day. LBJ's is 23 minutes per day, or a rate of about 50% greater than what Magic played. Unlike games 1-3, last night LBJ was taking plays off. I can't imagine the level of exhaustion he must feel, but it must be intense..

You are clearly passionate and you make some good observations in your arguments - the first two minutes of the 4Q were indeed a disaster, and LBJ could have easily had 12 or more assists with better shooting from his teammates yesterday (and maybe if they knocked those down and kept it closer, he wouldn't have taken plays off). He can clearly be forgiven for wearing down one night in the middle of a long series when he's lifted a team full of ragamuffins to the brink of a title, and if the Cavs win this thing - or even if it goes 7, G4 will be completely forgotten by everyone (except maybe by Iguadola's family). But you're an intelligent guy, so I have to wonder...

Why Magic in 1985? Seems odd to pick that one out at random, especially when you'd want to compare LBJ to Jordan for the GOAT debate (or Iverson in the sense of being a one-man wrecking crew). Magic is also better known for 1987 and the junior sky hook in G4, so that's the series I'd look at first. Well, 1985 of course is known for the Boston Massacre in G1 and how the Lakers overcame that to win the series. So everyone's minutes were reduced due to the historically large blowout (the Lakers also won G3 by 25). It should be obvious that something is unusual looking at his minute totals (only 34 minutes - injured? Foul trouble? Blowout?). The NBA has also been using a Tuesday-Thursday-Sunday format since at least 1988 (to avoid the ratings pitfalls on Friday and Saturday nights), so this "per day" stuff wouldn't effect any series since then, but it does for Magic in 1985. It feels like a data point you crafted specifically to compare to Magic in 1985 to make LBJ look like he's some sort of superhero.

To get more meaningful data points, I recalled four series that had an overtime game in the first four games and dominant players in their prime, and found seven guys who have played more than LBJ's 184 minutes (46 mpg) in the first four games of a series. Jordan, Barkley and Dan Majerle in 1993 (with a 2OT G3), Iverson and Kobe jn 2001 (OT G1), Kobe again in 2004 (OT G2) and Robert Horry in 1994 (who got to stand around on offense a lot and probably shouldn't count). Barkley was the most with 194 (46-46-56-46), Iverson had 192 (52-47-47-46), etc, This is what superstars do in the finals. They get little rest and have to play through fatigue. It's part of the job description.

I kind of wonder how you might have acted to the flu game if you were a Jordan fanatic.

 

[TasteofUConn]

Why Magic in 1985? Seems odd to pick that one out at random . . . This is what superstars do in the finals. They get little rest and have to play through fatigue. It's part of the job description.
I kind of wonder how you might have acted to the flu game if you were a Jordan fanatic.

Your basketball statistical knowledge exceeds mine by a huge amount - I'm not a huge NBA fan, nor have I been for 30 years. I remember they went to a 2/3/2 format and everybody hated it. Other than that, I couldn't tell you anything the history of finals scheduling. I picked the Lakers/Celtics in 85 for the following reasons (and spent all of about 3 seconds on it): I was a huge Laker fan at the time and it's when my NBA appreciation maxed out. Magic had similar ball handling duties and had a similar build/size. That's it. Zero ulterior motive or intent to deceive. Clearly the choice of 1985, given your explanation of the current standard format, was a poor choice, and the numbers I presented can be discarded.
That written, I don't believe that any player on any team in any series has had to work as hard with as little help as LBJ in this series. That's a matter of opinion, sure, but that's mine. The minutes he's logged, in combination with the exertion he's had to put forth, are obscene, and I don't buy for a second that the assertion that "part of the job description" is to "play through fatigue" is applicable.
I'm not particularly passionate about basketball, BTW, other than UConn. I just like arguing about stuff like this.

 

[Gurleyman]

Your basketball statistical knowledge exceeds mine by a huge amount - I'm not a huge NBA fan, nor have I been for 30 years. I remember they went to a 2/3/2 format and everybody hated it. Other than that, I couldn't tell you anything the history of finals scheduling. I picked the Lakers/Celtics in 85 for the following reasons (and spent all of about 3 seconds on it): I was a huge Laker fan at the time and it's when my NBA appreciation maxed out. Magic had similar ball handling duties and had a similar build/size. That's it. Zero ulterior motive or intent to deceive. Clearly the choice of 1985, given your explanation of the current standard format, was a poor choice, and the numbers I presented can be discarded. That written, I don't believe that any player on any team in any series has had to work as hard with as little help as LBJ in this series. That's a matter of opinion, sure, but that's mine. The minutes he's logged, in combination with the exertion he's had to put forth, are obscene, and I don't buy for a second that the assertion that "part of the job description" is to "play through fatigue" is applicable. I'm not particularly passionate about basketball, BTW, other than UConn. I just like arguing about stuff like this.

Fair enough - we squabbled a bit in this thread but I've found you to be an interesting poster in general with your discussions of your tree hobby (which I think is cool) and the way you had some pretty informed and passionate opinions in the Drummond thread. So I think you're a good addition to the board. A little sports debate is fun, even if you disagree. It's the cesspool that sucks. Don't go there!

 

[Walker11]

Well he didn't fake an injury, but do you understand why he had to dive 10 feet directly into a camera lens?

He got fouled hard, went to the ground, they called the foul, but he bounced off the court like there was a hidden trampoline. That was gruesome as hell, but I don't think it needed to happen, I think it happened because he's LeBron.

I did enjoy a little later, Lebron slashed Iggy's arms as he drove the lane, and Iggy immediately did the Lebron reaction: grab and clutch at the affected area as though a helicopter rotor just lopped off an appendage, wince and grimace so all the fans know you are the equivalent of a Marine fighting for your country.

keep lapping up Lebron's antics buddy, keep on lapping it up

I can't stand Lebron but at least I realize my dislike is irrational. You are just on a different planet with your hate.

 

[TasteofUConn]

Fair enough - we squabbled . . .

I squabble with my wife, and we always end up naked in bed doing improper things.
That's not an offer, but simply an observation that animated, somewhat contentious tet-a-tet intercourse is not incompatible with mutual respect.
Again - very impressed with your knowledge of the NBA. For whatever reason, I just don't retain most sport things unless I was fully immersed at the time. E.G. - I remember exactly where I was for the shot, Langon's final trip, us killing Butler, and I have vivid memories of the 14 run (including buying 14 strangers in a bar a couple of shots after we closed out Kentucky). I remember watching a ton of Lakers in the 80s. TNT carried west coast games, and I just got hooked. But I don't remember much about particular years anymore. Rambis getting clotheslined. Magic getting hurt one year - hammi. The ML Carr guy waiving the towel on the Celtic bench. Worthy throwing the ball away. Michael Cooper getting one of the greatest blocks I have ever seen on a Celt breakaway but the Ref calling a foul as it happened because he, like everybody else, didn't think the block was possible. A couple others. Mostly a blur though.
Anyway, I hope the Cavs can put up a bit of a fight. This may end with two 25 point blowouts.