OT: GOAT QB - its not Brady.

[upstater]

LOLZ. You write a 10 page report on the atmospheric impact of cold air on leather, but say "the most effeminate touchy-feely QB in the history of the league" and move right on. He's borderline molesting an 11 yr old boy.

My reply to the man whose bike tires never deflated naturally: that's a creepy post.

 

[The Funster]

These are always kind of dumb arguments. Different eras, different game. Football today is not what it was in the 80s. I still think Marino was the best QB ever (and this coming from a Jets fan) but its still just my opinion and I couldn't be bothered to try and defend that opinion. It is what it is.

 

[Deepster]

It's painfully obvious that Deep is jealous of the kid. What I can't figure out is if it because his father showed him some affection, or because the kid kissed Tom Brady.

Sandusky. Bernie Fine. Tom Brady.
The GOATs.

 

[Husky25]

Sandusky. Bernie Fine. Tom Brady.
The GOATs.

"The past is gone but something might be found to take its place... Hey jealousy"

 

[Husky25]

 

[Dove]

It's Joe Montana

Never threw an interception in a Superbowl.

4 in 9> 5 in 16

Didnt lose to Eli twice

So Boneyardin'.

 

[KemBaller]

Nah. I have Joe Montana like stamina.

So not very impressive then?

 

[willie99]

I agree. So Pats fans need to stop with the incessant GOAT business, and if they want to claim GOAT , put up with counter views on why he's not.

Also Montana didnt cheat.

Rice admitted to using stick-um
Montana admitted his offensive line use to grease themselves up
the 49er's were often accused of abusing salary cap rules, even fined a few times if my long term memory serves me right

Young admitted paying ball boys to keep footballs warm on cold days

 

[willie99]

I'm one who thinks nobody can win the greatest of the greatest arguments, but since the question was asked and us Brady lovers have been called out, I'll make the argument for Brady

Records owned by Brady

• Regular season wins by a starting quarterback (187)
• Division titles (14)
• Playoff games started (34)
• Playoff wins (25)
• Playoff touchdown passes (63)
• Playoff passing yards (9,094)
• Super Bowl appearances (7)
• Super Bowl wins (5)
• Super Bowl MVPs (4)
• Super Bowl touchdown passes (15)
• Super Bowl passing yards (2,071)

Records in Brady’s reach

• Most passing touchdowns: The record is held by Manning, who finished his career with 539 touchdowns. Brady is 72 behind and on pace for another season with more than 30 touchdowns. It’ll likely take until the 2019 season, but he’s currently throwing touchdowns at a faster pace than Drew Brees, who is only a few touchdowns ahead of Brady. It’ll probably come down to who plays longer.
• Most passing touchdowns (postseason included): The record is Manning’s 579, which Brady shouldn’t have much trouble catching. He’s at 530 and will likely be able to hit that mark before the end of 2018.
• Most passing yards (postseason included): The record for yards in the regular season and postseason is Manning’s at 79,279. Brady is fewer than 7,000 yards behind and already well ahead of Brees, making it a mark that is primed for the taking in 2018.
• Pro Bowls: If Brady gets to the Pro Bowl this season — which looks likely — it’ll be his 13th nod. But Manning, Tony Gonzalez, Bruce Matthews, and Merlin Olsen all got to 14. To grab the record for himself, Brady needs Pro Bowl seasons in 2018 and 2019 too. That’s not impossible, but it’s a tall ask for a quarterback already over 40.
• Game-winning drives: The Patriots haven’t always needed Brady to rescue them, but he’s always up to the task when the time calls for Touchdown Tom. He already did it once in 2017 and needs just six more to pass Manning’s 56. Brady averages about two or three a year, so he could realistically top Manning in 2018.
• Fourth-quarter comebacks: For many of the same reasons, Brady has a good chance at topping Manning’s 45 fourth-quarterback comebacks. He’s also six from that record and could beat it in 2018.
• Games started: Favre’s never-ending career allowed him to start in 298 games over 20 seasons. Brady’s start on Sunday will be his 241st. If he stays completely healthy and doesn’t miss a game, he wouldn’t be able to get to 299 until the final game of the 2020 season, about five months after his 43rd birthday. It’s another one that isn’t impossible, but it’s definitely a stretch.

 

[willie99]

I'm also going to suggest it's better to play in 8 SuperBowls than 4, even if you lose some of the 8. I think it's silly to actually argue a QB is better because he lost BEFORE GETTING TO THE SB, because that's why Joe only played in 4 SB's

PS: Brady didn't cheat either, only Roger's union given authority to be judge, jury and executioner had him suspended, because the preponderance of the actual evidence didn't convict him of any crime.

The only judge who considered the evidence and forced the release of the "sealed transcripts" laughed at Roger and the transcripts proved Roger was a liar. The appellate court said they didn't consider the evidence in the case, their ruling was only about the collective bargaining agreement and the authority the players gave to Roger. They ruled Roger had the authority to make such a decision for whatever reason he wanted to. The next union contract in 2021 is going to look a whole lot different with regards to the commissioner's authority, and that's a stone cold lock of a lifetime.

 

[mauconnfan]

These are always kind of dumb arguments. Different eras, different game. Football today is not what it was in the 80s. I still think Marino was the best QB ever (and this coming from a Jets fan) but its still just my opinion and I couldn't be bothered to try and defend that opinion. It is what it is.

I'm with Funster, Marino was the best although the argument would lean to Brady easily because of the rings. It can be argued in so many ways and who can blame those who defend their own to the fullest, I get that. Heck I like Eli and he can't touch Brady's accomplishments but head-to-head he's better

By the way those who go Montana's way, just watch the Giants beating of him in that playoff game the GMen won 49-3. They would've thrown about 10 flags the Pats way for late hits on the QB and the WR's, it was all out physical warfare. Totally different game back then and ridiculously different for Namath, Staubach, Unitas, Starr etc etc - they hardly threw the ball in those days either.

But in Pats fans defense it's impossible to even allow any other comparisons, I mean his career is ridiculous.

 

[MASSconn]

It's Joe Montana

Never threw an interception in a Superbowl.

4 in 9> 5 in 16

Didnt lose to Eli twice

If he wins Sunday don't post on this forum ever again. Troll.

 

[mauconnfan]

If he wins Sunday don't post on this forum ever again. Troll.

Pretty sure he's not a troll and he has an opinion which he is entitled to. (maybe this was sarcasm if it was I apologize, hope it was)

 

[MASSconn]

Pretty sure he's not a troll and he has an opinion which he is entitled to. (maybe this was sarcasm if it was I apologize, hope it was)

Yea... relax it was sarcasm.

 

[mauconnfan]

Yea... relax it was sarcasm.

Oh I'm relaxed. I'm not throwing out fire him today posts, I'm ok thanks.

 

[socal613ws]

I'm a die hard raiders fans, the niners are our rival. I'm telling you Joe Montana is the GOAT, perfection he was, we live in a day where we are prisoner of the moment. Correct me if I am wrong but did Tom Brady only have 1 total pass td in his 1st 3 sbs? Lmao that's laughable.
Joe Montana will always be the greatest, but that baad man Aaron Rodgers is going to make it interesting.

 

[Irishfan]

It's Joe Montana

Never threw an interception in a Superbowl.

4 in 9> 5 in 16

Didnt lose to Eli twice

Its hard to imagine that there are people out there who didn’t realize that Montana was the greatest. But nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[Tenspro2002]

• Most passing touchdowns: The record is held by Manning, who finished his career with 539 touchdowns. Brady is 72 behind and on pace for another season with more than 30 touchdowns. It’ll likely take until the 2019 season, but he’s currently throwing touchdowns at a faster pace than Drew Brees, who is only a few touchdowns ahead of Brady. It’ll probably come down to who plays longer.
• Most passing touchdowns (postseason included): The record is Manning’s 579, which Brady shouldn’t have much trouble catching. He’s at 530 and will likely be able to hit that mark before the end of 2018.
• Most passing yards (postseason included): The record for yards in the regular season and postseason is Manning’s at 79,279. Brady is fewer than 7,000 yards behind and already well ahead of Brees, making it a mark that is primed for the taking in 2018.
• Pro Bowls: If Brady gets to the Pro Bowl this season — which looks likely — it’ll be his 13th nod. But Manning, Tony Gonzalez, Bruce Matthews, and Merlin Olsen all got to 14. To grab the record for himself, Brady needs Pro Bowl seasons in 2018 and 2019 too. That’s not impossible, but it’s a tall ask for a quarterback already over 40.
• Game-winning drives: The Patriots haven’t always needed Brady to rescue them, but he’s always up to the task when the time calls for Touchdown Tom. He already did it once in 2017 and needs just six more to pass Manning’s 56. Brady averages about two or three a year, so he could realistically top Manning in 2018.
• Fourth-quarter comebacks: For many of the same reasons, Brady has a good chance at topping Manning’s 45 fourth-quarterback comebacks. He’s also six from that record and could beat it in 2018.
• Games started: Favre’s never-ending career allowed him to start in 298 games over 20 seasons. Brady’s start on Sunday will be his 241st. If he stays completely healthy and doesn’t miss a game, he wouldn’t be able to get to 299 until the final game of the 2020 season, about five months after his 43rd birthday. It’s another one that isn’t impossible, but it’s definitely a stretch.

I'm seeing a lot of arguments for Peyton Manning in there.

 

[Nostical]

It's not really a close argument for me. Brady and Belichick won five SB's despite being surrounded by an inferior collection of offensive talent. That's just an inconvenient fact for the Montana and Walsh boosters to recognize. As for the Marino boosters, tell me why the stellar combo of Marino and Shula couldn't win even one SB? Marino doesn't even belong in the conversation.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm with Funster, Marino was the best although the argument would lean to Brady easily because of the rings. It can be argued in so many ways and who can blame those who defend their own to the fullest, I get that. Heck I like Eli and he can't touch Brady's accomplishments but head-to-head he's better

By the way those who go Montana's way, just watch the Giants beating of him in that playoff game the GMen won 49-3. They would've thrown about 10 flags the Pats way for late hits on the QB and the WR's, it was all out physical warfare. Totally different game back then and ridiculously different for Namath, Staubach, Unitas, Starr etc etc - they hardly threw the ball in those days either.

But in Pats fans defense it's impossible to even allow any other comparisons, I mean his career is ridiculous.

I agree that cross decade comparisons are damn near impossible. But we do them anyway and they are fun.

Yes, the game was different back then, but athletes weren't as big, strong, and fast either. QBs had more time to throw. Schemes weren't as complex, tendencies weren't as studied. It was probably easier job from a mental perspective, probably harder physically in some respects -> rehab and training methods far inferior.

Same goes for any sport. I always find the baseball guys trying to break out Ty Cobb's records. That would probably be like playing high school ball these days.

 

[willie99]

Maybe Joe should have won a few more playoff games and earned the chance to play in a few more championships. You would think WINNING more is a prerequisite for being the GOAT. Especially when one is playing the most important position in the game.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm seeing a lot of arguments for Peyton Manning in there.

All you gotta do is look at Peyton's playoff stats. Pedestrian. You can't be considered great unless you bring it, and win, in big moments.

 

[zyron]

All you gotta do is look at Peyton's playoff stats. Pedestrian. You can't be considered great unless you bring it, and win, in big moments.

What's your opinion on Ted Williams then?

 

[intlzncster]

What's your opinion on Ted Williams then?

Don't really have one. Obviously, he didn't get enough chances to truly determine, but it is what it is. People say he's the greatest hitter, but idk; an all time hitter obviously. But would you rather have him, or a guy like Jeter/Ortiz/Jackson for October? (can't be bothered to look up best post season players, so I'm going off recent memory)

You pay guys big money, especially in football at the quarterback position, to come up big in the post season. Otherwise, why bother? Who cares if you light up the regular season but can't get it done when it counts?

I've just always thought that, while you have to have regular season numbers, greatness usually separates itself in the post season. Same way greatness in golf/tennis is decided in the majors. The biggest stage, the biggest moments.

Now in regards to Peyton, he had plenty of opportunities in the post season. So it's not as difficult to evaluate.