OT: GOAT QB - its not Brady. | The Boneyard

OT: GOAT QB - its not Brady.

HuskyHawk

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The idea that there is a "greatest" at any position in any team sport, is ridiculous. Montana ran Walsh's system very well. So did Steve Young. Brady runs the Pat's system well. Neither Brady or Montana would have been great playing for the Al Davis Raiders. Hell, Montana's lack of arm strength would likely have gotten him cut. Jordan, Lebron, Chamberlain....it's pointless.

About the only guy I think you can make a case for is Babe Ruth. Because nobody else was close to him in his era, and he was outstanding as a pitcher and hitter.
 

August_West

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The idea that there is a "greatest" at any position in any team sport, is ridiculous. Montana ran Walsh's system very well. So did Steve Young. Brady runs the Pat's system well. Neither Brady or Montana would have been great playing for the Al Davis Raiders. Hell, Montana's lack of arm strength would likely have gotten him cut. Jordan, Lebron, Chamberlain....it's pointless.

About the only guy I think you can make a case for is Babe Ruth. Because nobody else was close to him in his era, and he was outstanding as a pitcher and hitter.


I agree. So Pats fans need to stop with the incessant GOAT business, and if they want to claim GOAT , put up with counter views on why he's not.

Also Montana didnt cheat.
 

c29328

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I am old enough I watched Montana in his prime. He was an assassin. You got the feeling with the ball in his hands at the end of the game he would beat you. "You left him too much time" was said over and over again. Sounds like what Atlanta fans and others are saying now. Brady looks and feels to me exactly the same way. They are 1 and 2 in my book and I don't care what order. I would give to Brady for longevity only but they are both amazing especially in big games. You can line up stats all you want and split hairs but they are that close in my book. Frankly, I don't think either would feel slighted by the comparison.
 
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This is a pass-happy era. Of course QBs will put up bigger numbers nowadays.

Remember when running backs were household names? Jim Brown, OJ, Walter Payton, Franco Harris, Tony Dorsett, Earl Campbell, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, etc.? Now it's all about the QBs and how many rings they've won.

Montana flourished in that era. That's why I think he's still the best ever. But Brady's right up there with him based on longevity & sustained success. Truly remarkable what B&B have accomplished since 2001.
 

Husky25

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It's Joe Montana

Never threw an interception in a Superbowl.

4 in 9> 5 in 16

Didnt lose to Eli twice



That's not a true comparison but I'm sure you know that. Whatever...I'll bite.

Montana's career was not nine years. It was 16. ('79-'94), and almost all of it was played prior to the salary cap and free agency (1993).

Brady's career is 17+ and he is in the midst of bookending it with three Super Bowls apiece plus two in the middle, while playing entirely in the free agency era.

Brady-led teams are 8-4 in the Conference Championship Game. Montana led teams are 4-3. 8 > 4 and .667 > .571.

The 49ers went to the Super Bowl during a period of unprecedented Conference domination. The NFC was 15-1 between 1982 and 1997 (Unrestricted free agency and the salary cap went into effect 4 seasons prior).

Montana (who may not have "cheated" himself, threw his former linemen under the bus like he was throwing a screen to Roger Craig) played a good portion of his career ('85-'92) with the greatest Wide Receiver of all time, who also admitted he cheated.

Eli Manning was 8 years old in 1989.
 
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UChusky916

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Also Montana didnt cheat.

tenor.png
 

HuskyHawk

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I am old enough I watched Montana in his prime. He was an assassin. You got the feeling with the ball in his hands at the end of the game he would beat you. "You left him too much time" was said over and over again. Sounds like what Atlanta fans and others are saying now. Brady looks and feels to me exactly the same way. They are 1 and 2 in my book and I don't care what order. I would give to Brady for longevity only but they are both amazing especially in big games. You can line up stats all you want and split hairs but they are that close in my book. Frankly, I don't think either would feel slighted by the comparison.

I think it is fair to say that those two are the greatest winners of all time. But it's a team sport. Montana had the greatest WR of all time and a HOF running back. Brady has never had anything close to either of them. Gronk being really his only top tier HOF level receiver, and he's be constantly injured.

As pure throwers, Marino was better than either, maybe Fouts as well. Rodgers can do everything well. Peyton was phenomenal at both throwing and managing a game (where Brady and Montana shine is that game management, and vision to pick apart a defense).
 

Husky25

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I think it is fair to say that those two are the greatest winners of all time. But it's a team sport. Montana had the greatest WR of all time and a HOF running back. Brady has never had anything close to either of them. Gronk being really his only top tier HOF level receiver, and he's be constantly injured.

As pure throwers, Marino was better than either, maybe Fouts as well. Rodgers can do everything well. Peyton was phenomenal at both throwing and managing a game (where Brady and Montana shine is that game management, and vision to pick apart a defense).
You can make a case for Randy Moss '07, but Rice was better for longer.
 

HuskyHawk

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You can make a case for Randy Moss '07, but Rice was better for longer.

Yes, in that one year. But he problem was in 2008. Brady was terrible (for him), as he started to rely on Moss and took repeated deep shots down the field, leading to way too many 3 and outs. Moss retired, thankfully, and Brady went back to doing what he does best, throwing it to the open guy.

You see other teams and QBs fall into that pattern. It's nice to have an Antonio Brown or Julio Jones, but it's low percentage football if you are chucking deep balls into double coverage, even with those guys. Rice was unique, and Brady would have feasted with him, because he thrived on yards after the catch rather than deep balls. Montana and Brady are both very, very accurate on 10-20 yard crossing routes.
 

Husky25

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Yes, in that one year. But he problem was in 2008. Brady was terrible (for him), as he started to rely on Moss and took repeated deep shots down the field, leading to way too many 3 and outs. Moss retired, thankfully, and Brady went back to doing what he does best, throwing it to the open guy.

You see other teams and QBs fall into that pattern. It's nice to have an Antonio Brown or Julio Jones, but it's low percentage football if you are chucking deep balls into double coverage, even with those guys. Rice was unique, and Brady would have feasted with him, because he thrived on yards after the catch rather than deep balls. Montana and Brady are both very, very accurate on 10-20 yard crossing routes.
2009 (Brady missed roughly 98% of 2008 with an ACL) and Moss was traded. He didn't retire, but your point stands...

Rice cheating with stickum and and catching everything, notwithstanding... ;)...the rules were different in the mid-late 80's. Nowadays, offensive coordinators call for deep throws, intent on getting a defensive pass interference call. It has become a skill for the receiver.
 
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I agree. So Pats fans need to stop with the incessant GOAT business, and if they want to claim GOAT , put up with counter views on why he's not.

Also Montana didnt cheat.
Brady got to the super bowl 50 percent of all seasons played. Never saw him get destroyed like Montana did against the Giants in the playoffs. Jim Burt broke his "pinky". Brady spearheaded the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history. GOAT
 
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Do people really care about this stuff - it's like some bizarre dick measuring contest where it's not even your own dick.
That's funny.

The answer is...not really, but it's a sports message board so when it gets brought up you chime in.

Do I care Mike Francesca always minimized Brady's accomplishments? Again, not really, but we enjoy sports talk radio like we enjoy message boards.
 
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I agree. So Pats fans need to stop with the incessant GOAT business, and if they want to claim GOAT , put up with counter views on why he's not.

Also Montana didnt cheat.

Montana threw to a WR who used illegal enhancements all the time to catch the ball. Stick'em. They sprayed silica on the offensive lineman's shirts for protection. They circumvented the salary cap during the 1981-1984 years.

Bill Parcells still thinks Bill Walsh cheated during 1980s playoffs

Also, your original premise about how it's better to lose BEFORE the big game rather than IN the big game: UConn under that measure has had a more successful 40 years than Duke. UConn in the final 4? 4-1. Duke in the Final 4? 6-8.

Try the argument on the national scene.
 

August_West

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Montana threw to a WR who used illegal enhancements all the time to catch the ball. Stick'em

Yeah but thats not Montana cheating, is it?

I don't blame Brady for Gronks blatant use of PED's. You can't use cheating by association. Thats a slippery slope all around.

Suspensions for Cheating (on their own)

Brady - 1
Montana - 0
 
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Yeah but thats not Montana cheating, is it?

I don't blame Brady for Gronks blatant use of PED's. You can't use cheating by association. Thats a slippery slope all around.

Suspensions for Cheating (on their own)

Brady - 1
Montana - 0

Admitting cheating is the same as cheating. Who cares about Goodell? He's a proven liar. Go ahead, go with the proven liars.
 

Husky25

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Montana threw to a WR who used illegal enhancements all the time to catch the ball. Stick'em. They sprayed silica on the offensive lineman's shirts for protection. They circumvented the salary cap during the 1981-1984 years.

Bill Parcells still thinks Bill Walsh cheated during 1980s playoffs

Also, your original premise about how it's better to lose BEFORE the big game rather than IN the big game: UConn under that measure has had a more successful 40 years than Duke. UConn in the final 4? 4-1. Duke in the Final 4? 6-8.

Try the argument on the national scene.
I actually went back an watched the accompanying video. In making the case for Montana, it actually makes a better case for Brady.
 

MrP

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I agree. So Pats fans need to stop with the incessant GOAT business, and if they want to claim GOAT , put up with counter views on why he's not.

Also Montana didnt cheat.

Guy who agrees it’s pointless to try to figure out who is the GOAT... starts a thread about who is the GOAT???
 
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It's Joe Montana

Never threw an interception in a Superbowl.

4 in 9> 5 in 16

Didnt lose to Eli twice


It comes down to this, who won more Superbowls? The answer is an emphatic BRADY! Montana was nowhere as successful in the post-season as Brady was. Brady is the GOAT without question. All of you delusional fans of loser teams are sore losers. So again, who won more Superbowls? That's all that matters. Everything you wrote is an attempt to rationalize inferiority.
 

August_West

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Guy who agrees it’s pointless to try to figure out who is the GOAT... starts a thread about who is the GOAT???

I think that Pats fans are the ones who throw the term out there incessantly. (Google - Brady GOAT) so if it is going to be out there, it should be open to discussion and rebuttal.

That's not the same as thinking sports era comparisons are overall pretty useless.

Let me guess, Pats fan, amirite?
 
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It comes down to this, who won more Superbowls? The answer is an emphatic BRADY! Montana was nowhere as successful in the post-season as Brady was. Brady is the GOAT without question. All of you delusional fans of loser teams are sore losers. So again, who won more Superbowls? That's all that matters. Everything you wrote is an attempt to rationalize inferiority.
Using championships as a metric for how good or bad a player is has never made any sense and it never will.
 
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Using championships as a metric for how good or bad a player is has never made any sense and it never will.
Why, that was always Yankee fans arguement when going at it with Red Sox fans. Which QB has won more Super Bowl MVPs? Is that a good metric? The answer with Brady with 4. Montanna had only three. Brady is the GOAT by far. It's not even close!!
 
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Why, that was always Yankee fans arguement when going at it with Red Sox fans. Which QB has won more Super Bowl MVPs? Is that a good metric? The answer with Brady with 4. Montanna had only three. Brady is the GOAT by far. It's not even close!!

That was about the teams.
 
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Which quarterback is "the most talented" is a hard debate to have, obviously.

However, when all is said and done, Brady will have the greatest career resumé of any quarterback ever.

It's not really even all that close.

It takes some serious pretzeled logic to arrive at any other conclusion.
 

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