OT: GOAT QB - its not Brady.

[Rocktheworld]

I’m a little surprised how many people care about raw Super Bowl wins than records in those games, discounting record (not to mention who those losses came against)

So I guess none of you think Jordan is the GOAT? Perfect in the finals, got bounced early several times just like Montana.

You folks have to say that Kareem is the GOAT -specifically “BY FAR” for some of you- to be consistent. Who here is ready to do that?

 

[intlzncster]

I’m a little surprised how many people care about raw Super Bowl wins than records in those games, discounting record (not to mention who those losses came against)

So I guess none of you think Jordan is the GOAT? Perfect in the finals, got bounced early several times just like Montana.

You folks have to say that Kareem is the GOAT -specifically “BY FAR” for some of you- to be consistent. Who here is ready to do that?

It's definitely a different calculation when you have seven game series vs a single game.

And in basketball, you can take virtually the same team to multiple championships, whereas the structure of football leads to far more turnover.

 

[Rocktheworld]

It's definitely a different calculation when you have seven game series vs a single game.

So it matters in basketball when comparing Kareem and Jordan for GOAT that they play 7 game series? I’m not comparing GOAT statuses across sports. I’m generalizing the logic espoused ITT

 

[Guapo]

I’m a little surprised how many people care about raw Super Bowl wins than records in those games, discounting record (not to mention who those losses came against)

So I guess none of you think Jordan is the GOAT? Perfect in the finals, got bounced early several times just like Montana.

You folks have to say that Kareem is the GOAT -specifically “BY FAR” for some of you- to be consistent. Who here is ready to do that?

What point are you making re: Brady with this comment?

 

[Rocktheworld]

What point are you making re: Brady with this comment?

I’m not

 

[Guapo]

I’m not

Lol ok...

 

[intlzncster]

So it matters in basketball when comparing Kareem and Jordan for GOAT that they play 7 game series? I’m not comparing GOAT statuses across sports. I’m generalizing the logic espoused ITT

First of all, I think guys like Kareem and Russell are a bit hard done by in many of the GOAT basketball discussions. And for the record, I do give value to the overall number of finals LeBron has played in, despite his record in them.

I just don't think the way you look at finals and championships is the same across sports. I think it's harder to make it to Superbowls than NBA Finals, especially with the parity model of modern football. There's just so many less opportunities to be successful. So much turnover in teams. Much of the time in football, it comes down to one play.

Take for example, NCAA basketball. I think making it to the Finals is more difficult, given the one and done nature of the tournament, than it is making it to an NBA finals. One play, and it's all over.

I fully admit this is a subjective take.

 

[August_West]

What point are you making re: Brady with this comment?

I Think it references deflated footballs.

 

[SC Husky]

I grudgingly admit he's awesome.
He's no Joe Montana though.

Who has more Super Bowl MVPs? The answer is Brady. Montana is no Brady.

 

[The X Man]

Just a reminder. Tonight at 9 on ESPN is The Two Bills.

30 for 30 review: The Two Bills

 

[Rocktheworld]

Lol ok...

Don't worry tweetums I'm not going after Brady. At least one other member (a good one) sees that

 

[Rocktheworld]

I just don't think the way you look at finals and championships is the same across sports. I think it's harder to make it to Superbowls than NBA Finals, especially with the parity model of modern football.

I dunno, I think there's a reason cold outdoor playing teams dominate. Having homefield in winter weather in a single elimination game is a massive advantage. In the Brady era, 6/8 of the Pats' Super Bowl berths came off of a homefield run in January (Steelers have benefited even more, as another example). Where's the parity there? If it's easier to get to the NBA finals, why doesn't anyone (generally speaking) hold Jordan's early exits against him?

There's just so many less opportunities to be successful. So much turnover in teams. Much of the time in football, it comes down to one play.

Meh, less than half the SBs from 1980 (random round number year I chose as "modern" era) were decided by 1 score or less. Don't ask me to look up championship and divisional games lol

As far as the NCAA goes, there is massive parity there because, in ascending order, a) essentially nobody plays home games, b) the seeding is criminally subjective, c) you have to win 5 consecutive games instead of 2, and most of all d) they're college kids. And even then, the majority of FF teams are chalk in the end.

 

[Guapo]

I Think it references deflated footballs.

Haha you can't troll me @August_West!

 

[Guapo]

Don't worry tweetums I'm not going after Brady. At least one other member (a good one) sees that

Well excuse me for thinking your post had to do with Brady within the context of this thread

 

[Rocktheworld]

Well excuse me for thinking your post had to do with Brady within the context of this thread

Just pointing out what I see as a logical inconsistency in applied criteria

Has nothing to do with Brady per se

 

[Guapo]

Just pointing out what I see as a logical inconsistency in applied criteria

Has nothing to do with Brady per se

Well to bring it back to Brady, I'd agree that he doesn't have the best resumé ever based only on super bowl victories and appearances.

If it were only that, we're talking Otto Graham, Terry Bradshaw etc.

Its a combination of a lot of things; his success in the win-loss column, his individual statistical achievements, awards, "moments," etc etc.

 

[intlzncster]

I dunno, I think there's a reason cold outdoor playing teams dominate. Having homefield in winter weather in a single elimination game is a massive advantage. In the Brady era, 6/8 of the Pats' Super Bowl berths came off of a homefield run in January (Steelers have benefited even more, as another example). Where's the parity there? If it's easier to get to the NBA finals, why doesn't anyone (generally speaking) hold Jordan's early exits against him?

Which indicates the regular season is that much more important in the NFL, than in the NBA; which bolsters the point that it is more difficult. Given that there are far fewer games, the stakes are higher, week in and week out.

Meh, less than half the SBs from 1980 (random round number year I chose as "modern" era) were decided by 1 score or less. Don't ask me to look up championship and divisional games lol

That was my point. I'm saying football is more difficult. The parity thing was to compare today's NFL to the NBA. In the NBA, you only need to keep 2-3 players together to contend every year.

As far as the NCAA goes, there is massive parity there because, in ascending order, a) essentially nobody plays home games, b) the seeding is criminally subjective, c) you have to win 5 consecutive games instead of 2, and most of all d) they're college kids. And even then, the majority of FF teams are chalk in the end.

Most of those are impactful, but if you were to make each round best of 7, you'd probably see 1v1 and 1v2 in damn near every Final Four. There's a ton of upsets every year that just wouldn't matter.

 

[Deepster]

Montana himself talked about spraying the offensive lineman jerseys with a slick substance every game, not to mention the front office that was cheating the salary cap.

Leave it to insecure upstater to take the thread to the insanity point.

Brady was suspended for cheating. Deflating footballs using a guy named The Deflator. And even another win Sunday still won’t rub that black mark off him.

 

[upstater]

Leave it to insecure upstater to take the thread to the insanity point.

Brady was suspended for cheating. Deflating footballs using a guy named The Deflator. And even another win Sunday still won’t rub that black mark off him.

The problem is you believe a proven liar named Goodell. But let's say I agreed with you. Why is it insane to compare footballs deflated to 11.7 PSI (which is where they should have been when moved from 70degree to 45 degree weather) to a team that uses illegal substances to catch the ball better? Not to mention the other ways they cheat.

The 49ers ADMITTED cheating.

 

[Huskybass]

Brady has 27 playoff wins including 5 Super Bowls. He was MVP in 4 of those Super Bowls. He has also lead the NFL in TD passes 4 times. He could add to those credentials this Sunday in his EIGHTH Super Bowl appearance.

Montana has 16 playoff wins (2nd all time) including 4 Super Bowls. He was MVP in 3 of them. He lead the league in TD passes twice.

As great as Montana was, Brady is the best QB of all time if you are being objective.

 

[Deepster]

The problem is you believe a proven liar named Goodell. But let's say I agreed with you. Why is it insane to compare footballs deflated to 11.7 PSI (which is where they should have been when moved from 70degree to 45 degree weather) to a team that uses illegal substances to catch the ball better? Not to mention the other ways they cheat.

The 49ers ADMITTED cheating.

At least Joe Montana never french kissed his 11 year old son. You can't argue that one.

 

[G0UCONN]

Brady is the best and Montana up there near him. One thing on Montana, as great as he was, he did not stretch the field much. Threw a lot of short slants and such and his WRs (Rice best ever) did the rest. Plus Montana surrounded by HoF talent on offense (Craig, Taylor, Clark). Brady outside of one year with Moss and Gronk has not been. Bunch of decent WRs he made great (like Deion Branch and Troy Brown among others).

That said, Dan Marino is best passer I ever saw with Aaron Rogers right there too. But Marino gets put down on list because of things he did not control (defense and running game) always sucked his whole career. Not fair but is what it is.

 

[August_West]

Says he doesnt care about what others think of them. Then posts multiple times in thread. #Patsfan #FriarJ