OT - A-Rod

[champs99and04]

Regarding Bonds he hadn't even hit 500 HR's when he was getting to age 36. He was already a hall of famer but then decided to make a mockery of everything by putting up 1400 OPS seasons by turning his body into a Macy's Thanksgiving Day float. Take a look at some of his pics when he was in his late 30's compared to recent pics on his bike. It looks like he was cut in half.
He was a great player but he wasn't better than Ruth, Williams and a few others.

There would be a lot more guys to decide to make a mockery of the game if they could do what Bonds did. Lots of guys from that era were on PEDS and putting up video game numbers, but nobody touched Bonds. His .600+ OBP might be the single most impressive thing I've seen in team sport.

 

[Scoe]

Steroids brought back the fans, and Bud Selig and the owners knew it, they turned a blind eye on it then caved into to PR pressure. PEDS are only an issue in Baseball, Brett Favre admitted to PED use lets ban him from getting into the HOF, Jerry Rice said he used stickum lets ban him as well.

 

[Scoe]

It's a farce that the best player (Bonds) and best pitcher (Clemens) of their generation aren't in the Hall. ARod was an incredible player but I have to put Bonds and Griffey slightly above him for players I watched. Pujols and Miggy are right there too. Never like comparing generations and Ruth didn't play in an integrated league but he was hitting more homers than the other teams combined, tough to say he isn't the GOAT. Biggest freak I've seen play is Ichiro. . . . . . . . . . to get 3,000 hits after playing a career in Japan and coming here at 27.5 years old is just insane. He had 2,428 hits in 11 seasons with 10 straight 200 hit seasons, 10 straight gold gloves, rookie of the year and MVP in the same season, a cannon for an arm and the active leader in stolen bases. I somehow think he's still underrated.

Im routing for the Marlins to win it all because of Donnie Baseball, Bonds and Ichiro.

 

[Scoe]

Regarding Bonds he hadn't even hit 500 HR's when he was getting to age 36. He was already a hall of famer but then decided to make a mockery of everything by putting up 1400 OPS seasons by turning his body into a Macy's Thanksgiving Day float. Take a look at some of his pics when he was in his late 30's compared to recent pics on his bike. It looks like he was cut in half.
He was a great player but he wasn't better than Ruth, Williams and a few others.

How ridiculous a guy that won 335 games isn't in but Bert Blyleven is in the HOF can't spin my head around that one.

 

[Scoe]

He was unprofessional and all about him. More than the PEDs, this is the kind of mushroom cap play I remember him for.

They got that call right bottom line the play itself was a reactionary play he was running down the line at full speed, the reaction afterwards was more dickish perhaps. You think Arod was more of a dick then Manny or Bonds? I think Arod was more of a phony then a dick I was he was more of an a to the media.

 

[mauconnfan]

They got that call right bottom line the play itself was a reactionary play he was running down the line at full speed, the reaction afterwards was more dickish perhaps. You think Arod was more of a dick then Manny or Bonds? I think Arod was more of a phony then a dick I was he was more of an a to the media.

Most of this comes from Sox fans who disregard a couple years later Pedey did the same thing in a game. Never played the game if you don't get this one, really.

 

[mauconnfan]

Mcgwire got crapped on just as much. Palmero and Sosa less so, but still significantly.

In my opinion, the 1998 home run 'race' was the most exciting thing I've watched over the course of a baseball season. Was electric.

Anyone who trashes guys who were on peds is a hypocrite imo. Back in the golden era day , there were greenies, corked bats, horse steroids, pitchers juicing balls, etc. Guys have ALWAYS tried to get an edge.

Nah it's not the same like it or not. Guys who were supposedly doing the things you speak of back then didn't blow up over a winter to 25-30 more lbs of muscle and heads which needed another size baseball hat. They looked like baseball players unlike the McGwires, Sosa's, Bonds in his twilight etc etc...even to this day they look like middle linebackers sometimes it's obvious they can't get a handle on the testing.

I'm not saying you're wrong about some of the stuff, the corked bats were obvious, but this PED crap has ruined the game. It's baseballs fault not the players so let them all in the Hall, they deserve it as it was and is allowed. Hey baseball changes the ball when the feel the need to right?

 

[uconngb]

He was unprofessional and all about him. More than the PEDs, this is the kind of mushroom cap play I remember him for.

Couldn't agree more....this, and the purple lipstick. That's what I think of when I think of A-Rod.

 

[David 76]

Bonds is the steroid-enhanced GOAT.
Without them he wasn't quite as good as his Godfather

Every time you put a PED user in the Hall, you are denigrating Ken Griffey Jr and a host of others who would have played with a handicap.

 

[ihatepants]

The fact that sports fans and writers complain about PEDs in baseball because they want to preserve the "sanctity of the game" is pretty funny. These guys did use PEDs but it was just a product of the era and just because a couple tested positive doesn't mean that they shouldn't be remembered in the hall of fame. It's impossible to tell who was using during that time - Piazza was just elected after being suspected of PEDs for the longest time.

Also, why is it only baseball fans that have a problem with PEDs? No one seems to care that just about every NBA player is likely on something.

 

[SWHuskyFan]

Baseball complains about it more because statistics are a much bigger deal for baseball fans. The fact that the most revered records in the game were taken apart by an era of rampant cheating is something we'd rather forget. Some of the records were also pushed so far out that they'll likely never be reached.

As far as the ridiculousness of the faces of the steroid era being kept out of the hall, count me as a big fan of that. To me it doesn't matter that some of them would have been hall of famers without the steroids. Some of them had hall of fame numbers before they got on the steroids or HGH. I still think that level of cheating should disqualify you from the hall. I also have no problem with Pete Rose being held out of the hall.

I do have an issue with some of the guys being held out on mere suspicion of use. There needs to be some level of evidence required.

 

[FartMan69]

Baseball complains about it more because statistics are a much bigger deal for baseball fans. The fact that the most revered records in the game were taken apart by an era of rampant cheating is something we'd rather forget. Some of the records were also pushed so far out that they'll likely never be reached.

As far as the ridiculousness of the faces of the steroid era being kept out of the hall, count me as a big fan of that. To me it doesn't matter that some of them would have been hall of famers without the steroids. Some of them had hall of fame numbers before they got on the steroids or HGH. I still think that level of cheating should disqualify you from the hall. I also have no problem with Pete Rose being held out of the hall.

I do have an issue with some of the guys being held out on mere suspicion of use. There needs to be some level of evidence required.

Bonds, Sosa, Mac and Clemens never failed a league sponsored test, right? Where do you draw the line of suspicion and facts when some are concrete or extremely obvious (Bonds) where as some are far less (Piazza)

 

[FartMan69]

PED attitudes towards baseball and football can't be compared either. Baseball is a numbers game where players stats are what makes them immortal where football is built on strength and power. PED's in baseball seperate generations in football there has and will always be savages, now they're just stronger. Plus football players don't live past 50 anyway so it'd be foolish not to take the stuff.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

It's amazing.

ARod is disgraced and resigned to going out like this.

Meanwhile, another total fraud fails a test and is given a retirement tour and is beloved on the way out.

At least ARod has faced his shortcomings. Waiting for the fraud Ortiz to do the same. I won't hold my breath.

 

[SWHuskyFan]

Bonds, Sosa, Mac and Clemens never failed a league sponsored test, right? Where do you draw the line of suspicion and facts when some are concrete or extremely obvious (Bonds) where as some are far less (Piazza)

I agree that the level of evidence is the issue. I think it's beyond obvious via statistical and visual analysis that Bonds, Sosa, Mac and Clemens were using. Bonds admitted it but said he didn't know it was steroids. Mac later admitted to it. I don't think Clemens or Sosa have admitted to anything. I do think there's a line to be drawn between more and less obvious users. The less obvious being the Piazza or Bagwell types that are much less clear.

If I had a vote I wouldn't require a positive test or a conviction. I think common sense would be sufficient. I would probably have voted for Bagwell and Piazza for instance.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I agree that the level of evidence is the issue. I think it's beyond obvious via statistical and visual analysis that Bonds, Sosa, Mac and Clemens were using. Bonds admitted it but said he didn't know it was steroids. Mac later admitted to it. I don't think Clemens or Sosa have admitted to anything. I do think there's a line to be drawn between more and less obvious users. The less obvious being the Piazza or Bagwell types that are much less clear.

If I had a vote I wouldn't require a positive test or a conviction. I think common sense would be sufficient. I would probably have voted for Bagwell and Piazza for instance.

If there's a career arc that shows PED use its Ortiz. He promised to find out what drug he failed his test for 13 years ago. We're still waiting. At this point OJ is going to find the real killer first.

 

[superjohn]

It's amazing.

ARod is disgraced and resigned to going out like this.

Meanwhile, another total fraud fails a test and is given a retirement tour and is beloved on the way out.

At least ARod has faced his shortcomings. Waiting for the fraud Ortiz to do the same. I won't hold my breath.

I'll never understand the love affair with Ortiz, great hitter but he's so obviously dirty. He always has played the big loveable teddy bear role but as soon as he's faced with any heat he shows his real personality, he's kind of a nasty guy.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I'll never understand the love affair with Ortiz, great hitter but he's so obviously dirty. He always has played the big loveable teddy bear role but as soon as he's faced with any heat he shows his real personality, he's kind of a nasty guy.

Boston sports fans. Morally bankrupt lot. You expect it from them but Ortiz is getting love nationwide.

If the Yanks honor him and he gets a standing O at Yankee Stadium I'll never go there again.

 

[intlzncster]

I'll never understand the love affair with Ortiz, great hitter but he's so obviously dirty. He always has played the big loveable teddy bear role but as soon as he's faced with any heat he shows his real personality, he's kind of a nasty guy.

Boston sports fans. Morally bankrupt lot. You expect it from them but Ortiz is getting love nationwide.

lol. He's Latin. That's the fiery part. All the Latin players right now love the guy (you see it at every stadium he goes to); he's like the godfather to them. In fact, he's practically universally loved throughout the Majors. But yup, they must all be wrong.

Good time to dust off this old chestnut:

 

[mauconnfan]

I'll never understand the love affair with Ortiz, great hitter but he's so obviously dirty. He always has played the big loveable teddy bear role but as soon as he's faced with any heat he shows his real personality, he's kind of a nasty guy.

Don't get me started, he's a great guy - to Boston fans. He's no different than ARod, nothing at all. 'General Tightness" himself (came out after the 6th because he played 1st finally, what a "baseball player") lost his bat speed and swing in 2009 and miraculously has found it all the way to 40 LOL....That's okay so has Napoli this year after sucking wind for 2. It is what it is, baseball won't figure out until they really want to. Verlander said it best, these guys mostly have figured out the testing pattern.

 

[mauconnfan]

lol. He's Latin. That's the fiery part. All the Latin players right now love the guy (you see it at every stadium he goes to); he's like the godfather to them. In fact, he's practically universally loved throughout the Majors. But yup, they must all be wrong.

Wrong, Peter Gammons was on the radio and he said it's mostly a Boston love affair and you'd be surprised it's not as rampant throughout the majors with fans and players as Boston fans would like to think.

Sorry to ruin your day

Oh and by the way most Latin guys run out ground balls and don't yell at scorekeepers about whether it's a hot or an error.

The guy is maybe the greatest clutch hitter in the steroid era, I mean easily. He's made himself into a smart, clutch hitter since 2003 (hmmm). But he's not the only one as 50% or more is still using I would guess. So in that case, he's really good.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

lol. He's Latin. That's the fiery part. All the Latin players right now love the guy (you see it at every stadium he goes to); he's like the godfather to them. In fact, he's practically universally loved throughout the Majors. But yup, they must all be wrong.

Good time to dust off this old chestnut:

So is it your position he's not a total and complete fraud?

 

[superjohn]

lol. He's Latin. That's the fiery part. All the Latin players right now love the guy (you see it at every stadium he goes to); he's like the godfather to them. In fact, he's practically universally loved throughout the Majors. But yup, they must all be wrong.

Good time to dust off this old chestnut:

Wow. Thanks for clearing that up, Trump.

 

[7774]

LOL @ Yankees fans in this thread.

 

[mauconnfan]

LOL @ Yankees fans in this thread.

LOL @ douches in the thread too!