OT - A-Rod

[champs99and04]

It's easy to see why Ortiz is more liked than A-Rod. A lot of it is as simple as the fact that Ortiz didn't play for most hated franchise in American sports (at the time, anyway, I think they were), and in fact, actually played a herculean role in taking them down (my sense is that, nationally, a lot of people are sick of the Red Sox, but when they won their first, I think a lot of people were rooting for them).

There is no way to defend A-Rod in certain respects, and again, I say that as somebody who liked him. The Arroyo swipe was an egregious violation of the game...the action itself was one thing (I can see it being rationalized as instinctual movement in the moment) but the way he tried to play dumb afterwards was just extremely cheapish and insulting to everyone's intelligence. He was the walking manifestation of fraudulence, somebody who tried to manipulate you at every turn, whether it was with his portrayal of a personality that none of his teammates or coaches could every verify (Joe Torre basically could not state with sufficient vigor how pampered he was) or getting busted for cheating twice, even after he sincerely pledged rehabilitation after the first time.

I will take up for him in this regard: all along, it seemed he was trying to compensate for something. He was a phony, but he was a phony because he was ridden with deep-rooted insecurity that probably stemmed from issues he had with his father as a child. His cheating appeared to reflect an addiction to perfection that anybody who watched him work would testify to. And for his flaws, he moved to third for Jeter, even when everything indicated it should have been the other way around. His love for the game was genuine, perhaps in a way that could not comprehend anything less than that (I always remember the passage from Torre's book in which A-Rod was incredulous that Jeter didn't have the baseball package).

I don't care to regurgitate the details of Ortiz's failed test. Sox fans will probably point out that it was administered under murky circumstances, and Yankees fans will express with conviction that he is a genocidal cheater. The media has been light on him, but they were light on Pettitte, too. Perhaps, in regards to A-Rod, some of the outrage is correlated with the fact that he could have gone down as the best to ever play...there was never that with Ortiz. Then again, people hated A-Rod before the steroids, and I won't argue with those people.

Maybe the better comparison is A-Rod to Manny. Manny was every bit the offender A-Rod was when it came to failed tests, and his off-field blunders rose to far greater levels of severity than A-Rod's. Yet...Manny is one of my favorite players of all-time, and if that demonstrates a certain hypocrisy that is consistent with many sports fans, then maybe that underscores what this all actually is...entertainment. Even as somebody who doesn't like baseball as much as other sports, the '03 and '04 ALCS's are two of the pantheon sporting events of my lifetime. A-Rod, Ortiz, and Manny were obviously prominently involved, so it's tough, as they depart the game, for me to grade them as anything other than flawed figures to greatly, greatly enhanced our experience as fans.

 

[methodology]

People also conveniently forget this classic arod highlight

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

LOL, so superjohn makes a post stating that he'll never understand the love affair with Ortiz, and you respond to agree with that post, saying there is no difference between he and ARod, but you weren't talking about how well liked they are.

You're always the best.

To the easily fooled and gullible unwashed masses, there's a big difference between ARod and Ortiz. To those of us with a pulse and the ability to see through Ortiz's bull sheet, there's no difference at all.

 

[bballgrda]

People also conveniently forget this classic arod highlight

If anything this makes me like him more. How can you not appreciate some quality gamesmanship? You play the game to win.

 

[mauconnfan]

LOL, so superjohn makes a post stating that he'll never understand the love affair with Ortiz, and you respond to agree with that post, saying there is no difference between he and ARod, but you weren't talking about how well liked they are.

You're always the best.

"Don't get me started he's a great guy...." Does that in any way say he's more well liked than ARod. It speaks to Papi, as a person or in the case I feel, a fraud. You can think it meant amongst the world, but it didn't so take your arrogance and FO.

 

[methodology]

If anything this makes me like him more. How can you not appreciate some quality gamesmanship? You play the game to win.

You clearly never played baseball. That's the lowest level of gamesmanship

 

[superjohn]

Do you know steroid users? I'm not trying to be snide, I'm curious. The guy I work out with trains a number of guys on gear and I don't think they're taking any sort of easy route. They can just break through the ceiling that's imposed on natty guys. You can take all the tren etc. in the world and if you don't bust your *** you're still going to look like trash. Their capacity for work might be greater but I don't think it's any kind of shortcut.

Personally, I don't particularly give a **** who's on steroids and who isn't. That white lineman for the Broncos, I can't remember his name, was a walking poster boy for gear after coming off his suspension and no one seems to care. James Harrison is 275 at 6-0, carries no fat, and runs like a deer. Alllll natural.

I don't know what makes baseball so sanctified.

Yes, I'm friends with some competitive bodybuilders. They will tell you diet and roids are more important than actual training. Of course you have to lift heavy to get really big but it's so much easier on gear. They can just crank out sets of light weight shrugs and their traps are going to pop like crazy. They curl just the bar and their arms are going to get a crazy pump while I curl sets of 135 and can't get the same pump. Of course if you take gear and don't lift you are going to look like cr@p and be unhealthy but you're nuts if you don't think the muscle building benefits are huge. I don't have a problem with anyone doing it and you can't compete in the sport of bodybuilding without it but to say it's not a shortcut is ridiculous, of course it is.

 

[8893]

The sport of baseball in particular seems to have a way of humbling most of the biggest tools, and A-Rod was certainly one of them imo. More than the PEDs and mirror-kissing, I resent that he and Boras forever altered the trajectory of the sport and made it more about rooting for laundry than anything else when they negotiated that ridiculous contract with the Rangers, which had so many repercussions that it changed the landscape forever. Yes, the Rangers were a willing participant, and the owners in general are not people for whom my heart bleeds, but in the end the fans got screwed because we've been paying for it ever since. You simply can't bring your family to a game anymore without spending hundreds of dollars, and that's a real shame imo. It's not all his fault, of course, but he and Boras together were the perfect storm that was needed in order for that to occur.

That said, he was humbled and it was nice to see him get a chance to redeem himself. I'm a fan of redemption. He was one of the best ever to play the game, with or without PEDs, and he's a shockingly good announcer/color commentary guy. I hope that we get to see him have a second career in that capacity. He certainly doesn't need the money, but I think he seeks adoration and respect more than anything, and assuming he's aware of the overwhelmingly positive reactions to his stint as a commentator I expect that we will see him behind the mic by next season, if not sooner.

 

[7774]

"Don't get me started he's a great guy...." Does that in any way say he's more well liked than ARod. It speaks to Papi, as a person or in the case I feel, a fraud. You can think it meant amongst the world, but it didn't so take your arrogance and FO.

This seems to be random words strung together. Are you now saying that you don't think Ortiz is more likable than ARod? I really can't tell.

 

[mauconnfan]

This seems to be random words strung together. Are you now saying that you don't think Ortiz is more likable than ARod? I really can't tell.

I'm sorry I don't sit there and think out perfect paragraphs for you to enjoy, they are random thoughts imagine that? or can't you a**wipe? Geez you're a rotten POS. But for that reason alone I won't block you because I need some idiot to throw crap at sometimes when the workday is closing. Thank you for that, you're my Boneyard waste water treatment plant 77-74. Keep it coming.

 

[The X Man]

The irony of you calling someone a POS is amusing

 

[mauconnfan]

You clearly never played baseball. That's the lowest level of gamesmanship

That one is clearly BS agree on that. The slapping of the glove is reaction.

 

[mauconnfan]

The irony of you calling someone a POS is amusing

This reply has such a negative impact on me I'm hurt. By the way, who are you? LOL

Again anyone who would stick up for 77-74 (most of the time, I've admitted to my faults and have overreacted to his assaults on mine and everyone else's intelligence) isn't anyone I'd be friends with. So like 77-74 I am sure your friend also is proud of you X Man. Thank you for caring.

 

[zyron]

You simply can't bring your family to a game anymore without spending hundreds of dollars, and that's a real shame imo.

What are you talking about, yes you can.

 

[The X Man]

This reply has such a negative impact on me I'm hurt. By the way, who are you? LOL

Again anyone who would stick up for 77-74 (most of the time, I've admitted to my faults and have overreacted to his assaults on mine and everyone else's intelligence) isn't anyone I'd be friends with. So like 77-74 I am sure your friend also is proud of you X Man. Thank you for caring.

You're an old man who likes to fight on the internet. That's a definition of a loser

 

[7774]

I'm sorry I don't sit there and think out perfect paragraphs for you to enjoy, they are random thoughts imagine that? or can't you a**wipe? Geez you're a rotten POS. But for that reason alone I won't block you because I need some idiot to throw crap at sometimes when the workday is closing. Thank you for that, you're my Boneyard waste water treatment plant 77-74. Keep it coming.

So I still can't tell if you think Ortiz is more likable or not. It reads like you don't think he is, but in another post you said we all know he is more likable than ARod.

 

[mauconnfan]

You're an old man who likes to fight on the internet. That's a definition of a loser

I didn't pick this fight and the good news is I know I'm not a loser. And the guy who always says everyone's post is idiotic compared to his, well not sure what he is. As far as you, the fact you come in this late to the party and call someone an old man and loser, says a lot about you pal. Nice job though really impressive.

 

[mauconnfan]

So I still can't tell if you think Ortiz is more likable or not. It reads like you don't think he is, but in another post you said we all know he is more likable than ARod.

Ok ok I give 77-74 I screwed up. My bad, we good? My quote was: "Wrong, Peter Gammons was on the radio and he said it's mostly a Boston love affair and you'd be surprised it's not as rampant throughout the majors with fans and players as Boston fans would like to think." Don't think that is assumed to mean ARod is more liked?


My final analysis, simply put: ARod and Papi are both frauds. One somehow gets away with it, the other not so much. While I did say Papi was less liked, according to even Boston's own Gammons, it did not mean I believe he's liked less than ARod as that would be almost impossible.

That's all I got for this one. Now go grab a room with the X Man I think he's in!

 

[Dogdeacon]

Bottom line, ARod hate has 3 REALLY big causes:
1. Ego - inarguably one of the biggest egomaniacs, almost no self-awareness. The mirror kiss, purple lips, ugly divorce, dating Madonna, Kate Hudson Anne Wojcicki & various others including a few prostitute rumors.
2. $ - also part of why Yankees are screwing him, some bitterness paying $20M for yrs of nothing or washed-up ness and insult to injury a possible bonus for a meaningless corrupted record. Similarly on Rangers his salary prevented them from being competitive
3. Steroids, cousins, suspensions, denials later taken back - pretty sure he's the most suspended still active player. His wiki on performance enhancing drugs is about 15 paragraphs - I mean c'mon.
But he's a good announcer so this should officially end the 12+ years of ARod schadenfreude.

P.S. On every one of those counts ARod's transgressions are major and triple of any other current players.

 

[mauconnfan]

This should either be on the baseball board or make it go away.

 

[zyron]

3. Steroids, cousins, suspensions, denials later taken back - pretty sure he's the most suspended still active player. His wiki on performance enhancing drugs is about 15 paragraphs - I mean c'mon.

Jenrry Mejia.

 

[7774]

I didn't pick this fight and the good news is I know I'm not a loser. And the guy who always says everyone's post is idiotic compared to his, well not sure what he is. As far as you, the fact you come in this late to the party and call someone an old man and loser, says a lot about you pal. Nice job though really impressive.

Calling you an old man and a loser really does say a lot about him. It would have been nice if he had taken the high road and called you a , an a**wipe, a rotten POS, told you to f off, etc, but not everyone can be that classy.

You really have an ARod level of self awareness.

 

[mauconnfan]

Calling you an old man and a loser really does say a lot about him. It would have been nice if he had taken the high road and called you a , an a**wipe, a rotten POS, told you to f off, etc, but not everyone can be that classy.

You really have an ARod level of self awareness.

Sorry 77-74 but that's what you have been. Takes a lot for me to do that these days but you're just not a real nice guy. You prey on people you believe to be less intellectual than you and I can't make that up. It's more than obvious to many. That just isn't a good trait. I admit I'm just throwing stuff out, think I know some stuff over things I just have an opinion. You actually believe anything you say to be the only way, that's sad.

Keep being you though.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Jenrry Mejia.

I've barely heard of him, also permanently barred so not active i.e. once someone's banned or out of baseball fans are mostly done talking about it unless there is ongoing litigation or HOF debate.

 

[zyron]

I've barely heard of him, also permanently barred so not active i.e. once someone's banned or out of baseball fans are mostly done talking about it unless there is ongoing litigation or HOF debate.

He can apply for reinstatement so he is not done.