New PAC-12 Forming

[upstater]

Don’t disagree. I just happened to hook on the idea that non-profit and for-profit aren‘t relevant to the concept of fraud.

The fraud cases skyrocketed with the for-profits. Corinthian, Trump, Grand Canyon, several others.

 

[Rufus]

Pac-12 still awaiting clarity on media rights, conference membership decisions

It could be a few months before the Pac-12 gets clarity on the rights and membership decisions.

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

 

[NoSpamHere]

The fraud cases skyrocketed with the for-profits. Corinthian, Trump, Grand Canyon, several others.

The for-profit ones are "illegal" fraud. The non-profit, endowment-driven schools are the "legal" frauds

 

[Patman]

The fraud cases skyrocketed with the for-profits. Corinthian, Trump, Grand Canyon, several others.

One of these things are not like the others... one of these things just doesn't belong

 

[AZHuskiePop]

GC got fined $37,000,00 under appeal for understating the cost a Doctoral degree to
7500 candidates , by the Department of Education
It ending up costing $10K more for the majority of students .
In my experience that understating the cost is pretty universal
especially in public’s where the 5 year plan is an inside joke
So why did the DOE single out GC the largest Christian University in the country?
Could it possible be retribution for them suing the DOE for their refusal to return them to non profit status? I don’t know but it’s a remarkable coincidence

 

[Fishy]

The for-profit ones are "illegal" fraud. The non-profit, endowment-driven schools are the "legal" frauds

Essentially.

 

[upstater]

Essentially.

Are we supposed to be against endowments at non-profits?

 

[upstater]

GC got fined $37,000,00 under appeal for understating the cost a Doctoral degree to
7500 candidates , by the Department of Education
It ending up costing $10K more for the majority of students .
In my experience that understating the cost is pretty universal
especially in public’s where the 5 year plan is an inside joke
So why did the DOE single out GC the largest Christian University in the country?
Could it possible be retribution for them suing the DOE for their refusal to return them to non profit status? I don’t know but it’s a remarkable coincidence

Grand Canyon Education accused of racketeering scheme in new class action

Plaintiffs say that “artificial bottlenecks” in doctoral programs at Grand Canyon University, the company’s biggest client, led to higher costs than advertised.

www.highereddive.com

PhDs are fully funded at the nation's non-profit universities. Creating bottlenecks is the opposite of what they do because such bottlenecks cost money. Schools are incentivized to push people through as quickly as possible because these educations are subsidized. It's the opposite of what's being described above.

 

[NoSpamHere]

Are we supposed to be against endowments at non-profits?

I’d sayitdepends on how the endowments are used. If the tax-free status conferred on them implies behavior for the public good then that’s how the money should be used. An 11 figure endowment says, to me, that’s not the case. Those schools could bailutely grow their admissions greatly without any real impact to their endowment yet they choose to grow the endowment instead.

 

[Fishy]

Are we supposed to be against endowments at non-profits?

If you think all non-profits are acting like non-profits, I don’t know what to tell you.

They’re every bit as predatory.

 

[upstater]

If you think all non-profits are acting like non-profits, I don’t know what to tell you.

They’re every bit as predatory.

Giving money to subsidize students is predatory. Amazing the things we learn here.

 

[upstater]

I’d sayitdepends on how the endowments are used. If the tax-free status conferred on them implies behavior for the public good then that’s how the money should be used. An 11 figure endowment says, to me, that’s not the case. Those schools could bailutely grow their admissions greatly without any real impact to their endowment yet they choose to grow the endowment instead.

Have you looked at their budget? It's $6B a year. Students w/ parents who make up to $150k don't pay. Then it graduates slowly.

They have a $50B endowment, they take 5.5% from it every year. This means around $2.6B every year.

So they need another $3.4B in revenue, which they get through the 40% of kids who pay, or research grants.

If you're burning through your endowment at the rate of return, you'll eventually find yourself without an endowment.

 

[Chuck]

I’d sayitdepends on how the endowments are used. If the tax-free status conferred on them implies behavior for the public good then that’s how the money should be used. An 11 figure endowment says, to me, that’s not the case. Those schools could bailutely grow their admissions greatly without any real impact to their endowment yet they choose to grow the endowment instead.

The Ivies give a lot back to their students. And the endowment is meant to last forever. Also, endowments are actually made up of thousands of individual endowments with mandates, so they can't just spend the money any way they want.

I do think there's something to be said about rich people donating their money elsewhere to do more good. UConn needs my money. But if I was a Harvard alum, I'd give my money elsewhere. I also think it might be time to tax the gains on endowments that are over a certain amount or have a draw down under a certain amount.

 

[KryHavok]

Grand Canyon Education accused of racketeering scheme in new class action

Plaintiffs say that “artificial bottlenecks” in doctoral programs at Grand Canyon University, the company’s biggest client, led to higher costs than advertised.

www.highereddive.com

PhDs are fully funded at the nation's non-profit universities. Creating bottlenecks is the opposite of what they do because such bottlenecks cost money. Schools are incentivized to push people through as quickly as possible because these educations are subsidized. It's the opposite of what's being described above.

Ehhh, kinda but not always. My PhD at UConn was funded by myself and reimbursed by my company at UConn; I wasn't an outlier in this respect as there were others in my situation. Also, we had attrition where a decent number of students didn't get their doctorates for one reason or another, so more like pushed out rather than pushed through. ^_^

 

[upstater]

Ehhh, kinda but not always. My PhD at UConn was funded by myself and reimbursed by my company at UConn; I wasn't an outlier in this respect as there were others in my situation. Also, we had attrition where a decent number of students didn't get their doctorates for one reason or another, so more like pushed out rather than pushed through. ^_^

What field were you in?

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Grand Canyon Education accused of racketeering scheme in new class action

Plaintiffs say that “artificial bottlenecks” in doctoral programs at Grand Canyon University, the company’s biggest client, led to higher costs than advertised.

www.highereddive.com

PhDs are fully funded at the nation's non-profit universities. Creating bottlenecks is the opposite of what they do because such bottlenecks cost money. Schools are incentivized to push people through as quickly as possible because these educations are subsidized. It's the opposite of what's being described above.

I’ve read multiple articles on the case which is under appeal and depending on which side you hear the story from it changes
However in this day and age if your quoted $40K and it cost $50k thst doesn’t sound that unusual to warrant a *$37,000,000 fine
against a school that’s suing you for sitting on their application for non profit status
I only know a few things about the school
It has a very nice campus in the West Side of Phoenix
They have the best Nursing school and PA program in the Phoenix area , better than ASU . I’m not sure if U of A has a nursing school
They go an incredible job of promotion their basketball team.
To be honest I’ve never seen one promotional ad for an ASU athletic team

* The largest fine ever accessed against a school

 

[businesslawyer]

Don’t disagree. I just happened to hook on the idea that non-profit and for-profit aren‘t relevant to the concept of fraud.

Not definitive, but absolutely relevant. There are many human beings willing to commit fraud when they get to keep the money. It is a far smaller percentage of human beings who are willing to commit fraud, and risk the consequences, so that someone else -- a non-profit institution or otherwise - can keep the proceeds.

 

[CL82]

Not definitive, but absolutely relevant. There are many human beings willing to commit fraud when they get to keep the money. It is a far smaller percentage of human beings who are willing to commit fraud, and risk the consequences, so that someone else -- a non-profit institution or otherwise - can keep the proceeds.

Lol c'mon Biz, are you seriously asserting that there is no risk of personal enrichment inside of a not for profit? Google private inurement.

 

[KryHavok]

What field were you in?

I will only say somewhere in STEM.

While we're on the topic of for-profit vs. non-profit, one of my colleagues tried to earn a doctorate through the for-profit Phoenix University. Unfortunately, the degree was not recognized and could not be used for professional qualification. Sometimes you get what you pay fore, and sometimes you get nothing despite what you paid (felt bad for the person as I was always treated respectfully and got along well).

 

[upstater]

I will only say somewhere in STEM.

While we're on the topic of for-profit vs. non-profit, one of my colleagues tried to earn a doctorate through the for-profit Phoenix University. Unfortunately, the degree was not recognized and could not be used for professional qualification. Sometimes you get what you pay fore, and sometimes you get nothing despite what you paid (felt bad for the person as I was always treated respectfully and got along well).

We're far off topic here and there's a lot to say about the different nature of these beasts. But I'll leave it be.

 

[Waquoit]

Places like GCU and SNHU is where you go to get that piece of paper that you need to check a box. They're happy, you're happy and maybe you even learned something.

 

[cellocgg]

Places like GCU and SNHU is where you go to get that piece of paper that you need to check a box. They're happy, you're happy and maybe you even learned something.

SNHU has an enrollment over 130,000, they should be a clear B1G target /s

 

[Patman]

Places like GCU and SNHU is where you go to get that piece of paper that you need to check a box. They're happy, you're happy and maybe you even learned something.

ultimately you have to be going to an accredited program and the accreditation agencies are going to be tougher on for-profit entities because of the prevailing reputation.

SNHU has an enrollment over 130,000, they should be a clear B1G target /s

go penmen!

 

[NoSpamHere]

Not definitive, but absolutely relevant. There are many human beings willing to commit fraud when they get to keep the money. It is a far smaller percentage of human beings who are willing to commit fraud, and risk the consequences, so that someone else -- a non-profit institution or otherwise - can keep the proceeds.

My (poorly worded) point should’ve said the Non/for-profit status isn’t directly correlated with fraudulent behavior.