New PAC-12 Forming

[Urcea]

"If you want to know how absurd this all has gotten … UTEP, which has averaged 3.2 victories over the last nine seasons and is currently 0-4, might now be fielding multiple offers to leave Conference USA."

"This isn’t how the Pac-12 envisioned it, but it got a bit greedy and then got boxed out by the Mountain West, which is using the exit fees paid by the departing four teams to sweeten the pot and keep UNLV and the others. Sources say the Rebels will get $25 million, among other concessions, to stay."

"Having the Pac-12 get stronger at the expense of what would have been a gutted AAC and Mountain West does not serve anyone’s purpose other than bean counters and television executives. And even then, it’s minimal. Instead, it is better to have six relatively healthy non-power conferences (add the Sun Belt, Conference USA and Mid-American to the list) than further separation. That’s especially true with the new, expanded playoff system offering an automatic bid to the best of the rest."

I don't agree. I think CUSA, the AAC, and the Sun Belt are all basically duplicative and redundant, and I don't think having these essentially artificial groupings of schools exist just to have separate conference brands is really all that helpful or useful to the longterm survival of the sport. The continued competition among an artificially high number of G5s strengthens, rather than weakens, the predatory P5s imo

 

[freescooter]

"If you want to know how absurd this all has gotten … UTEP, which has averaged 3.2 victories over the last nine seasons and is currently 0-4, might now be fielding multiple offers to leave Conference USA."

"This isn’t how the Pac-12 envisioned it, but it got a bit greedy and then got boxed out by the Mountain West, which is using the exit fees paid by the departing four teams to sweeten the pot and keep UNLV and the others. Sources say the Rebels will get $25 million, among other concessions, to stay."

"Having the Pac-12 get stronger at the expense of what would have been a gutted AAC and Mountain West does not serve anyone’s purpose other than bean counters and television executives. And even then, it’s minimal. Instead, it is better to have six relatively healthy non-power conferences (add the Sun Belt, Conference USA and Mid-American to the list) than further separation. That’s especially true with the new, expanded playoff system offering an automatic bid to the best of the rest."

What a dope. What he means to say is it is better for the P4 not to have anyone who can compete with them to become a P5 again.

 

[gioff2323]

IF the PAC-12 wins its lawsuit against the MW, or IF the exit fees are negotiated down to settle the lawsuit, how will the MW have the money to pay UNLV and Air Force they have been promised to stay in the MW?

So you’re suggesting that UNLV, the qb of the MWC, could quit its conference say 3 weeks in if verbally promised bag falls short?

 

[gioff2323]

If the football team joins the PACxxx, travel issues will be tilted way in UConn's favor.

Four west coast teams travelling east to play noon games will be gutted. It will be the midway through the 3rd quarter before they are even awake.

UConn travelling west four times will have only a minor impact. It is so much easier to perform anything after travelling west across time zones than east. Jet lag is biased that way.

We should try to schedule our conference games at 11:00am if they let us.

Certainly worked out that way when he headed to Fresno and Utah state over past few years. Those were ez wins

 

[Urcea]

I don't get this chatter that Gonzaga wouldn't make the leap for "this" PAC-12. It's a decent hoops league. Are we supposed to believe this AD is focused up on all things "big brands" while his school beats the life out of Pepperdine and the University of Portland? Come on now

 

[UCFBfan]

I will be curious if this TV deal the PAC keeps touting will be all on linear TV or will have a lot on streaming services. I know the money would be good, or better than we get now, but I'd hate to have a SBC deal where most games are on ESPN+

 

[CL82]

If the football team joins the PACxxx, travel issues will be tilted way in UConn's favor.

Four west coast teams travelling east to play noon games will be gutted. It will be the midway through the 3rd quarter before they are even awake.

UConn travelling west four times will have only a minor impact. It is so much easier to perform anything after travelling west across time zones than east. Jet lag is biased that way.

We should try to schedule our conference games at 11:00am if they let us.

Or perhaps 11:11?

 

[JMick]

"If you want to know how absurd this all has gotten … UTEP, which has averaged 3.2 victories over the last nine seasons and is currently 0-4, might now be fielding multiple offers to leave Conference USA."

"This isn’t how the Pac-12 envisioned it, but it got a bit greedy and then got boxed out by the Mountain West, which is using the exit fees paid by the departing four teams to sweeten the pot and keep UNLV and the others. Sources say the Rebels will get $25 million, among other concessions, to stay."

"Having the Pac-12 get stronger at the expense of what would have been a gutted AAC and Mountain West does not serve anyone’s purpose other than bean counters and television executives. And even then, it’s minimal. Instead, it is better to have six relatively healthy non-power conferences (add the Sun Belt, Conference USA and Mid-American to the list) than further separation. That’s especially true with the new, expanded playoff system offering an automatic bid to the best of the rest."

Ah ok so it's fine to break up the original PAC12 and for FSU and Clemson to try and destroy the ACC, but it's not ok for the PAC to try and make itself a stronger conference.

 

[Kolumbo]

Perhaps we need a separate Mountain West thread, if we are interested in that conference

 

[LBird33]

Perhaps we need a separate Mountain West thread, if we are interested in that conference

Can’t imagine this will work well long term.

 

[Kolumbo]

Can’t imagine this will work well long term.

This was just for the exit fees distribution. But they couldn't get the math correct anyway. It's 11.5% rather than 15.8% for the 4 programs.

 

[Vowelguy]

Pretty impressive how badly OSU/Wazzou botched this.

I assume NMSU and UTEP will get called next by both the PAC and MW.

After that I guess the UAC/WAC schools or maybe SacSt, UCDavis.

 

[JMick]

Pretty impressive how badly OSU/Wazzou botched this.

I assume NMSU and UTEP will get called next by both the PAC and MW.

After that I guess the UAC/WAC schools or maybe SacSt, UCDavis.

Did they botch it? Sure they didn't get Memphis, Tulane, Air Force or UNLV but they still got the rest of the Big brands

 

[Pat125]

Ah ok so it's fine to break up the original PAC12 and for FSU and Clemson to try and destroy the ACC, but it's not ok for the PAC to try and make itself a stronger conference.

It’s all “fine,” but chock full of hypocrisy and self-righteousness. For example, the ACC had no problem killing Big East football, and had no problem when the teams they invited violated the 27 month rule, but wailed when Maryland left, and refused to try and settle with Florida St. and Clemson. And WSU and OSU had a problem when their conference was obliterated, but had no problem trying to destroy the AAC and MW.

The bottom line is that all of these conference moves involved schools that wanted to move and conferences that wanted to invite them. Again all fine, except for moral superiority crap that we see.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Did they botch it? Sure they didn't get Memphis, Tulane, Air Force or UNLV but they still got the rest of the Big brands

LOL. They paid $43 million in penalties on a contract they signed a year ago, they don't even have a full conference yet and all the remaining additive programs, other than UConn, have passed on joining. I would say that is botching it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

A move that would certainly be twilight zone, but maybe not completely insane, is adding UMass.

 

[Kolumbo]

I don't agree. I think CUSA, the AAC, and the Sun Belt are all basically duplicative and redundant, and I don't think having these essentially artificial groupings of schools exist just to have separate conference brands is really all that helpful or useful to the longterm survival of the sport. The continued competition among an artificially high number of G5s strengthens, rather than weakens, the predatory P5s imo

I suppose you have about 38-40 programs between these three conferences, CUSA, AAC, Sun Belt. I don't know if they should consolidate conferences or have fewer FBS programs. CUSA could easily be carved up and distributed. I've always felt more conferences are better for the sport overall with more conference champions and more rivalries. 6 Power Conferences would be better than 4.

 

[Vowelguy]

Did they botch it? Sure they didn't get Memphis, Tulane, Air Force or UNLV but they still got the rest of the Big brands

1) they should’ve locked up 8 MW and gotten the conference dissolved, nixing the exit fees
2) the fact that schools are choosing staying in the MW over jumping ship is pretty damning
3) with Memphis and a Texas school or 2, they could’ve been clearly above the G5 and possibly in position for more

4) they will now will have to take at least one dreg to round out the conference

The conference is not as strong, not as geographically expansive, and paying huge exit fees.

 

[Kolumbo]

LOL. They paid $43 million in penalties on a contract they signed a year ago, they don't even have a full conference yet and all the remaining additive programs, other than UConn, have passed on joining. I would say that is botching it.

The PAC 2 had a huge war chest which OSU and WSU could have mostly split between the two programs. They could have figured out a way to merge with the MWC and still keep most of the $$. Instead they raided the MWC at a very steep cost and will end up with more or less a merged PAC-MWC. OK, they didn't want Hawaii and Wyoming. They paid a boatload of money to avoid a few MWC programs while CR is so unstable it probably didn't matter. From a financial standpoint, they botched it big time.

A move that would certainly be twilight zone, but maybe not completely insane, is adding UMass.

And.....check out the key tweets thread. The MAC is now in play for the MWC.

 

[ZooCougar]

LOL. They paid $43 million in penalties on a contract they signed a year ago, they don't even have a full conference yet and all the remaining additive programs, other than UConn, have passed on joining. I would say that is botching it.

Those schools are too poor to pay the exit fees. Otherwise they would leave.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Another twilight zone but not completely insane proposal: merge the Pac 12 with the Big East. They don't have to play against each other or share revenue, but it gets the Pac 12 an 8th member. It might justify Gonzaga joining whatever this would be, and maybe the Big East takes a piece of the Pac 12 CFP split.

The definition of conference does not require all teams to play against each other.

 

[ZooCougar]

The PAC 2 had a huge war chest which OSU and WSU could have mostly split between the two programs. They could have figured out a way to merge with the MWC and still keep most of the $$. Instead they raided the MWC at a very steep cost and will end up with more or less a merged PAC-MWC. OK, they didn't want Hawaii and Wyoming. They paid a boatload of money to avoid a few MWC programs while CR is so unstable it probably didn't matter. From a financial standpoint, they botched it big time.


And.....check out the key tweets thread. The MAC is now in play for the MWC.

False. The MWC would have milked them along leaching as much of that buyout money as possible and then let them join.

I don't blame the PAC 12 at all.

It’s all “fine,” but chock full of hypocrisy and self-righteousness. For example, the ACC had no problem killing Big East football, and had no problem when the teams they invited violated the 27 month rule, but wailed when Maryland left, and refused to try and settle with Florida St. and Clemson. And WSU and OSU had a problem when their conference was obliterated, but had no problem trying to destroy the AAC and MW.

The bottom line is that all of these conference moves involved schools that wanted to move and conferences that wanted to invite them. Again all fine, except for moral superiority crap that we see.

Not so much true with the PAC 12. As I said above the MWC play was to take as much of that PAC 12 warchest as possible and tried to take advantage. The MWC deserves this pain.

 

[Fishy]

Did they botch it? Sure they didn't get Memphis, Tulane, Air Force or UNLV but they still got the rest of the Big brands

You pretty explained how they botched without realizing it.

 

[Kolumbo]

In Benedict's words, "I'm not so sure that the next 5-10 years things don't dramatically shift to where conference affiliation is not the way we typically think about it today." (5:00 of Locked On UConn video)

If MAC is now being discussed, that has to mean that CR is reaching a point where conferences are really thinking outside the box in order to maximize revenue. PAC and MWC need bodies and while looking east, UConn is a prime candidate and could use some east coast partners. Rockey Mountains meet the Appalachians.

 

[Vowelguy]

Another twilight zone but not completely insane proposal: merge the Pac 12 with the Big East.

What do the BigEast schools (ex UConn) get out of merging with the PAC?

Nothing.

 

[uconnyankee]

Another twilight zone but not completely insane proposal: merge the Pac 12 with the Big East. They don't have to play against each other or share revenue, but it gets the Pac 12 an 8th member. It might justify Gonzaga joining whatever this would be, and maybe the Big East takes a piece of the Pac 12 CFP split.

The definition of conference does not require all teams to play against each other.

Was thinking similar lines, especially if Gonzaga/St Mary’s in mix.
That would be a great BB league.

 

[JMick]

You pretty explained how they botched without realizing it.

Memphis and Tulane would have been decent gets but UNLV and Air Force aren't anything to write home about. The PAC will be fine. It'll have two dead weight schools and 6 schools much stronger than the rest of the MWC. The PAC and AAC will be the G5 conference sending a champ to the playoff more often than not.

 

[Urcea]

I suppose you have about 38-40 programs between these three conferences, CUSA, AAC, Sun Belt. I don't know if they should consolidate conferences or have fewer FBS programs. CUSA could easily be carved up and distributed. I've always felt more conferences are better for the sport overall with more conference champions and more rivalries. 6 Power Conferences would be better than 4.

To be fair, many of those are recent call ups

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Was thinking similar lines, especially if Gonzaga/St Mary’s in mix.
That would be a great BB league.

With a combined football/basketball product, there may be a better streaming package available, and it would be a new, less competitive market for Big East games.

 

[Jetskies]

Probably on average they are…recent ncaa bids 2022, 2023, 2024 for Boise. UNH NCAA bids, 0 since inception of the program. Of course maybe we replace Maryland Eastern Shore. Might be better that them, too.

please explain, though, why you assume we are not playing in a tournament if we play 2 games against real teams.

hey free,
i already explained my opinion, scroll up.


not saying i'm right, just my view on this matter.