NCAA announcing UNC penalties on Friday

[Adios]

Looks like they'll be banished to the SEC....

Maryland President: ‘I would think’ UNC would receive death penalty

 

[CL82]

I mean the NCAA by design has no standing to regulate Academics. That is what the NCAA is trying to do. That is why UNC has been fighting so hard. It has a very strong legal case that the NCAA has exceeded its authority.

Not so much actually. The NCAA has the ability to regulate eligibility for student athletes. One of the criteria they use to determine eligibility is APR. UNC entered into a two decade scheme to supplied false information to the NCAA. They played ineligible athletes. The penalty for playing an ineligible athlete is forfeiture of the the game. The NCAA is well within it's ability to have UNC forfeit every game for the last 20 years.

UNC has a duty monitor its sport programs. It did not, and frankly that's being gracious. Failure to monitor for 20 years? The NCAA could levy a post season ban. Again well within it's wheelhouse.

Now a separate point is that university's providing no show classes are grounds for them to lose accreditation. The NCAA doesn't decide that issue. Another point is that the university breached it's contract with students, in that it provided no show classes to some students devaluing it's degree. The NCAA doesn't decide that issue either. But just because some parts of UNC's fraud is beyond the reach of the NCAA does not mean that all of it is.

 

[huskymedic]

>>“Is this really an athletics issue, or is it more broadly an accreditation issue, that’s the question,’’ said Atlanta-based attorney Stu Brown, who specializes in NCAA infractions cases. “The arguments that Carolina has laid out procedurally about why this really is an accreditation issue and would be a slippery slope for the NCAA to get into regarding the academic integrity are valid. But the people on the Committee on Infractions also don’t live in a bubble. They’re not immune to public perception and there is a perception that if the NCAA doesn’t crack down, what good are they?’’<<

 

[crewbear742]

Not so much actually.

The Athletic Dept is under no obligation to vet the quality of classes offered by the University. These classes were not created for the sole exclusive purpose of maintaining the eligibility of athletes. They were available to the general student body. The fact that advisers directed athletes towards these classes proves nothing more than the advisers were acting as academic advisers. These are accreditation issues, and the NCAA does not have the standing to judge them. University presidents didn't want the NCAA mucking around in their sandbox. This is the basic case that UNC will trot into Federal Court, and it agrees very well with the NCAA rule book. If there is any financial bite to these sanctions, the lawyers are going to get involved quickly.

 

[CL82]

The Athletic Dept is under no obligation to vet the quality of classes offered by the University. These classes were not created for the sole exclusive purpose of maintaining the eligibility of athletes. They were available to the general student body. The fact that advisers directed athletes towards these classes proves nothing more than the advisers were acting as academic advisers. These are accreditation issues, and the NCAA does not have the standing to judge them. University presidents didn't want the NCAA mucking around in their sandbox. This is the basic case that UNC will trot into Federal Court, and it agrees very well with the NCAA rule book. If there is any financial bite to these sanctions, the lawyers are going to get involved quickly.

Lol, good luck with the argument that AD does not have to submit accurate grade info because that's the university's job and they not regulated by the NCAA. Those are the kind of pleadings that make judges angry.

Just an FYI, the university is a member institution of the NCAA, not just the athletic dept.

 

[crewbear742]

Lol, good luck with the argument

Well, maybe you will believe the NY times.
North Carolina Looking to Slip Through Hole in N.C.A.A. Rules

 

[nomar]

Lol, good luck with the argument thst AD does have to submit accurate grade info because thats the university's job and they regulated by the NCAA. Those are the kind of pleadings that make judges angry.

Just an FYI, the university is a member institution of the NCAA, not just the athletic dept.

Unless the judge is corrupt/incompetent/a lackey. Like Emmert.

 

[nomar]

Well, maybe you will believe the NY times.
North Carolina Looking to Slip Through Hole in N.C.A.A. Rules

I think he believes that UNC is making the argument. He doesn't believe it will work.

I'd make the argument if I were UNC. And if I were the NCAA, I'd say you can't cheat for 20 years by shuffling athletes through bogus classes to keep them eligible and get away with it.

 

[the Q]

I don’t know how one can make the argument that the NCAA can’t manage academic eligibility when you granted them the power of the ban hammer wih APR scores.

That’s so counterintuitive I don’t even know how to respond to anyone making it without going Homer Simpson on them. Lol

 

[crewbear742]

And if I were the NCAA, I'd say you can't cheat for 20 years by shuffling athletes through bogus classes to keep them eligible and get away with it.

But that's the whole point. The NCAA doesn't have standing to make a judgment about bogus classes. It wants that standing. It wants it really bad. But by statute it doesn't have it.

And that's why I said this going to Court if there are any serious financial repercussions..

 

[SubbaBub]

Funny how the timing works. UNC gets it's case closed just before the death penalty and ACC expulsion chatter gets going. It's been so long, I don't even remember if UNC self sanctioned at the beginning. The only thing that would surprise me is if the penalty was actually harsh, meaning more than a 1 yr tourny ban (including any previous self bans should they have occurred.)

 

[Hoophound]

That’s just the thing. If UNC skates, it could open up a different can of worms. Schools like UConn might come out of the woodwork looking for damages from costly sanctions that had something to do with academics.

 

[nomar]

But that's the whole point. The NCAA doesn't have standing to make a judgment about bogus classes. It wants that standing. It wants it really bad. But by statute it doesn't have it.

And that's why I said this going to Court if there are any serious financial repercussions..

Which statutory provision prohibits them from sanctioning UNC in this case? And why doesn't that putative statute apply to low APR scores?

Seems like you're stating an opinion, just like you're accusing CL82 of doing.

 

[Jimdish255]

I'm guessing that they'll get a one year post season ban and some recruiting restrictions for their two decade long academic fraud.

Oh and those sanctions will be to woman's basketball with a warning to football and nothing to men's basketball.

I'm not kidding.

I agree. It's going to be an indefensible WTH moment then crickets after a few days. Who exactly do they have to defend the decision in front of? Elected officials, a judge, ESPN!?! Nope. Just the Universities who stand to benefit from the money train staying on the tracks. There is no independent arbiter here that doesn't have a stake in the protecting the financial interests of P5 members.

And the timing of this is very interesting.

 

[huskymedic]

But that's the whole point. The NCAA doesn't have standing to make a judgment about bogus classes. It wants that standing. It wants it really bad. But by statute it doesn't have it.

And that's why I said this going to Court if there are any serious financial repercussions..

That's the point Dana O'Neil makes above in the article Bilas retweeted (post #78):

>>The NCAA has, throughout its history, often steered away from academic issues, positioning itself as the governing body of athletics and insisting that accrediting agencies and the like are in charge of curriculum and coursework. Its phonebook-thick rulebook includes plenty of rules on initial eligibility requirements and maintaining good academic standing but it says nothing about determining what counts as a proper college course and what doesn’t. “It’s ultimately up to universities to determine whether or not the courses for which they’re giving credit, the degrees for which they’re passing out diplomas, live up to the academic standards of higher education,’’ NCAA president Mark Emmert said in 2015.<<

>>Case precedent follows Emmert’s thinking. Ten years ago a Michigan professor taught nearly 300 independent study classes over a three-year period, athletes making up 85 percent of the class rosters. An Auburn professor taught more than 200 independent study courses in one year that required virtually no work and included 18 football players on the Tigers’ 2004 football roster. The NCAA did not charge either school with anything relating to the academic courses, decisions North Carolina cited in its argument.

This North Carolina case, then, could be a direct pivot on the NCAA’s positioning, one with far-reaching ramifications.<<

 

[GemParty]

If the penalty is shockingly fair & heavy, won't UNC just drag out an appeals process? Always wondered why UConn accepted their double retroactive fate without a whimper.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Already been leaked:
1) 2 extra scholarships per year for three years
2) Coach Williams to be awarded the Medal of Freedom
3) Call-Girl per diem account reduced be 5% per annum......for 1 annum....retroactive to 1936
4) Michael Jordan's " the floor is the ceiling" to replace the Gettysburg Address in all UNC History Courses
5) UNC allowed to forgo History Courses
6) Rick The Quick Pitino to be named new Compliance Director

 

[JeepCSC]

I don’t know how one can make the argument that the NCAA can’t manage academic eligibility when you granted them the power of the ban hammer wih APR scores.

That’s so counterintuitive I don’t even know how to respond to anyone making it without going Homer Simpson on them. Lol

I think the point is they can manage academic eligibility to a point, but they can't be deciding if UNC's academic departments are properly accredited. There are accreditation agencies to do that. The NCAA can only decide if the athletic department was instigating cheating. At least that is the main point of contention I think. UNC's scandal is worse in many ways because it seems to have started with a rogue academic department. But that might be what keeps it outside the purview of the NCAA.

 

[SaeHusky]

Looks like it won't be released tomorrow: Why NCAA report on UNC academic case will not be released Friday

 

[Dove]

I expect the announcement will be made by none other than Ms. Emily Litella...

 

[CL82]

Well, maybe you will believe the NY times.
North Carolina Looking to Slip Through Hole in N.C.A.A. Rules

The academic dishonesty is an unprecedented black mark on North Carolina. The university’s accreditation body briefly took the extraordinary step of placing the institution on probation, and its teams could still face sanctions like lost scholarships, vacated titles and postseason bans.

Lol, wow the alumni must be so very proud.

The analysis I posted above remains unchanged. The article is flawed when it refers to the no show classes as "easy classes." Easy classes are a choice by the university to devalue every grad's degree. No show "classes" are academic fraud. Do you understand the difference? But more importantly the academic fraud was used to subvert the rules for NCAA members. UNC can, I suppose ignore the NCAA's edicts, but the NCAA can bar them from participation in NCAA events. A court isn't going overturn that.

 

[zls44]

Remember everyone, Matt Norlander et. al. in the CBB media said it is UNFAIR to go after the NCAA as being light on UNC until they release the punishment!

(He said this 2 years ago)

 

[intlzncster]

Remember everyone, Matt Norlander et. al. in the CBB media said it is UNFAIR to go after the NCAA as being light on UNC until they release the punishment!
(He said this 2 years ago)

That last bit is amazing. It kinda slips by the wayside just how long it's been.

 

[TheRogers]

A statement from the NCAA:
"Contrary to what everyone thinks the NCAA does not play favorites. What UNC did cuts through the core of the basic principles of the NCAA. To that end the sanctions imposed will be the so-called death penalty OR......"

 

[ramses 2.0]

The academic dishonesty is an unprecedented black mark on North Carolina. The university’s accreditation body briefly took the extraordinary step of placing the institution on probation, and its teams could still face sanctions like lost scholarships, vacated titles and postseason bans.

Lol, wow the alumni must be so very proud.

The analysis I posted above remains unchanged. The article is flawed when it refers to the no show classes as "easy classes." Easy classes are a choice by the university to devalue every grad's degree. No show "classes" are academic fraud. Do you understand the difference? But more importantly the academic fraud was used to subvert the rules for NCAA members. UNC can, I suppose ignore the NCAA's edicts, but the NCAA can bar them from participation in NCAA events. A court isn't going overturn that.

Then the NCAA should charge UNC with academic fraud instead of extra benefits. In their last response they acknowledged the fact they don't have power over what constitutes proper course credit. So now you could open up all kinds of potential extra benefits cases based on the benefits each college athlete receive that the general student body doesn't on every campus in the NCAA. Athlete's get soecial treatment in class registration,their advisors can set them up with tudors etc& that us not available to each student. That means Stanford for example could receive some type of sanctions related to courses their athletic department runs only for student athletes including receiving credit for practice