NBA Finals Thread
- Thread starter intlzncster
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If the object is to beat Golden State, I don't see how Cleveland can justify not trading Love for a wing.
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Really wanted the Cavs to take this one. Ah well.
Can't blame J.R. Smith for this loss. The last two games, dude has played like his life depended on it. That can't be said for every Cavalier..
Congrats to Durant on getting a ring, even if he took the easy way.
Can't blame J.R. Smith for this loss. The last two games, dude has played like his life depended on it. That can't be said for every Cavalier..
Congrats to Durant on getting a ring, even if he took the easy way.
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Should have kept Liggins...
Great fanbase = willing to pay the most.
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Honestly, don't know. I am an East Coaster. I have heard that ticket prices are going up and up, understandably so. I would imagine you can get in for 1 or 150. The fan base is great. I will always remember the roaring arena when they upset the 1 seed Mavs. And the TMC era had roaring crowds as well.
Sarcasm, I presume? Apologies if my meter is broken.
intlzncster
i fart in your general direction
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AI?
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"It goes in line with him always wanting to take the easier path in life."
-- Skip Bayless, probably
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If i kept saying it over and over again then maybe. Except I said it once and then responded to two different posters who quoted my post.
Yeah, me posting on here is an accurate comprison to how Lebron acts in NBA games. You really burned me there. That was a great and accurate analogy.
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gtcam
Diehard since '65
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Now if you start posting images of flopping!!!!!!!!!!!!.............................
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People complaining about the price of tickets to Oracle, need to visit that area. Everything is expensive, incredibly expensive at that. They are going to move from Oakland into the valley next year and ticket prices will only get worse.
I am going by the owners' perspective.
Media was mentioning no game 5 and 7 in Oakland would cost millions. Game 5 ends up having 2 of the most expensive seats in NBA history.
Amusing how the Warriors sucked for so long and now they're another bandwagon team. I must say, successful teams are good for the tourism business. A successful New England Patriots franchise is good for the NFL and New England.
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That would take the thread to 10k pages....
intlzncster
i fart in your general direction
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Let's face it, every league needs at least one hated (dominant) team.
MLB: For a long time, it was the Yankees. If the lovable Cubs stay good, it will eventually be them.
MCBB: Duke and now UK.
NBA: Lakers fell into that category for a while. The Heat. And now the Warriors.
NHL: doesn't seem to happen as much for whatever reason. Although nobody seems to like the Canadians.
NFL: Raiders/49ers. Cowboys. Patriots.
It's fun hating against a team and fanbase.
The Bronx Bombers are coming back. Court is in session and Aaron is presiding.
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Some parting thoughts on the finals/season:
- I haven't read this article by Jackie MacMullan, but I assume it's good: Kevin Durant is the NBA Finals MVP! But not for the reason you think
I know I've said this before, but I don't think people realize how good Durant is defensively. He's good defensively to the point that he would be Cleveland's third or fourth best player if he was Andre Roberson on offense. I'm not sure how his defensive metrics shake out over an 82 game sample, but what he's done defensively these last two postseasons have left me with the impression that he is one of the half dozen best defenders in the game. By my unofficial count, he was the most effective Warrior guarding both LeBron and Kyrie.
- Along those lines, LeBron/Durant is a real debate. I'm not Paul Pierce and I don't say so as a passive-aggressive jab at LeBron, whose game continues to ascend to levels we haven't seen. I don't say so in neglect of the fact that Golden State's roster is perfectly suited to accentuate Durant's game and I don't say so in ignorance of just how highly the deck was stacked against LeBron in this series. The Cavs had no shot and I can assure you that my opinion is not reactionary in nature. I picked Golden State in five. This is neutral at worst for LeBron's 'legacy.'
But there were moments, even in that series, where all of that context submitted to the spectacle of KD and LeBron going one on one, and in those situations, LeBron respected KD - fear felt strong - in a way I'm not sure I've ever seen him respect another player, at least not in this generation. That respect was evident in the hesitancy he demonstrated during one on one match-ups with KD, and it's that hesitancy - and his natural inclination towards being a facilitator - in iso situations that may keep LeBron behind Jordan, at least for now.
- Speaking of that, Kyrie...I think he's winning me over. The dude is just do damned good one on one. He's one of the most skilled players to ever lace them up. There are problems with his game. Takes a lot of low-reward mid-range shots, free throw rate not great, poor defender, not ideal off the ball, not a great facilitator (I actually thought Golden State should have given more help on Kyrie than they did). But holy hell, as a Warriors supporter, I fear him with the ball in his hands more than LeBron. And I know that fear is not well-founded, but the fact that it exists is emblematic of how incredible he is. Weirdly, he's the type of dude you could replace with Kyle Lowry and actually be better off right up until you run into the one team that actually matters. Then he goes from polarizing-in-the-analytics-community Kyrie to Uncle Drew.
- I don't think it's a coincidence that LeBron reportedly waited for every Cav to enter the locker-room last night only to finally embrace Kyrie and say, "we'll be back." My suspicion is that Kyrie - and maybe J.R., for a short time - was the only guy LeBron didn't think hung him out to dry in that series. I've banged the Love drum before, but it's important to re-iterate: there is no sense in carrying a player on your roster that is useful right up until the moment you need him. He can't play against Golden State for very legitimate basketball reasons. The ball dominance of LeBron and Kyrie makes it so he's less valuable to Cleveland's offense than he would be anywhere else, and so in total he becomes Chris Bosh on offense, which would be fine if not for the fact that he isn't Chris Bosh on defense. I think Cleveland would be much more competitive in that series even if they just swapped Love for a player like Avery Bradley.
- Kevin Durant just really likes basketball. It's that simple. He didn't go to the Warriors for money, or his legacy, or the weather. He went there because he's obsessed with basketball and he's obsessed with playing it the right way. That wasn't happening in Oklahoma City and it was in Golden State and it's obvious from watching him talk last night how happy he was to play here.
I'm fine if you hate on Durant for joining the Warriors, but my sense is that a lot of you are people who are just going to hate the NBA no matter what. Here's a guy who was willing to be coached, willing to be taught, willing to be part of something bigger than himself. He was willing to view himself as part of the machine instead of the machine. His teammates love him, his coaches love him, and ultimately his decision aligned with what is supposed to motivate athletes: winning. The same simpletons who will crush LeBron for being 3-5 in the finals are the ones who will place the asterisk on Durant's ring. They'll hate the NBA for being a star-dominated league and then when the star loses to the superior team they'll rip the star anyway.
- I haven't read this article by Jackie MacMullan, but I assume it's good: Kevin Durant is the NBA Finals MVP! But not for the reason you think
I know I've said this before, but I don't think people realize how good Durant is defensively. He's good defensively to the point that he would be Cleveland's third or fourth best player if he was Andre Roberson on offense. I'm not sure how his defensive metrics shake out over an 82 game sample, but what he's done defensively these last two postseasons have left me with the impression that he is one of the half dozen best defenders in the game. By my unofficial count, he was the most effective Warrior guarding both LeBron and Kyrie.
- Along those lines, LeBron/Durant is a real debate. I'm not Paul Pierce and I don't say so as a passive-aggressive jab at LeBron, whose game continues to ascend to levels we haven't seen. I don't say so in neglect of the fact that Golden State's roster is perfectly suited to accentuate Durant's game and I don't say so in ignorance of just how highly the deck was stacked against LeBron in this series. The Cavs had no shot and I can assure you that my opinion is not reactionary in nature. I picked Golden State in five. This is neutral at worst for LeBron's 'legacy.'
But there were moments, even in that series, where all of that context submitted to the spectacle of KD and LeBron going one on one, and in those situations, LeBron respected KD - fear felt strong - in a way I'm not sure I've ever seen him respect another player, at least not in this generation. That respect was evident in the hesitancy he demonstrated during one on one match-ups with KD, and it's that hesitancy - and his natural inclination towards being a facilitator - in iso situations that may keep LeBron behind Jordan, at least for now.
- Speaking of that, Kyrie...I think he's winning me over. The dude is just do damned good one on one. He's one of the most skilled players to ever lace them up. There are problems with his game. Takes a lot of low-reward mid-range shots, free throw rate not great, poor defender, not ideal off the ball, not a great facilitator (I actually thought Golden State should have given more help on Kyrie than they did). But holy hell, as a Warriors supporter, I fear him with the ball in his hands more than LeBron. And I know that fear is not well-founded, but the fact that it exists is emblematic of how incredible he is. Weirdly, he's the type of dude you could replace with Kyle Lowry and actually be better off right up until you run into the one team that actually matters. Then he goes from polarizing-in-the-analytics-community Kyrie to Uncle Drew.
- I don't think it's a coincidence that LeBron reportedly waited for every Cav to enter the locker-room last night only to finally embrace Kyrie and say, "we'll be back." My suspicion is that Kyrie - and maybe J.R., for a short time - was the only guy LeBron didn't think hung him out to dry in that series. I've banged the Love drum before, but it's important to re-iterate: there is no sense in carrying a player on your roster that is useful right up until the moment you need him. He can't play against Golden State for very legitimate basketball reasons. The ball dominance of LeBron and Kyrie makes it so he's less valuable to Cleveland's offense than he would be anywhere else, and so in total he becomes Chris Bosh on offense, which would be fine if not for the fact that he isn't Chris Bosh on defense. I think Cleveland would be much more competitive in that series even if they just swapped Love for a player like Avery Bradley.
- Kevin Durant just really likes basketball. It's that simple. He didn't go to the Warriors for money, or his legacy, or the weather. He went there because he's obsessed with basketball and he's obsessed with playing it the right way. That wasn't happening in Oklahoma City and it was in Golden State and it's obvious from watching him talk last night how happy he was to play here.
I'm fine if you hate on Durant for joining the Warriors, but my sense is that a lot of you are people who are just going to hate the NBA no matter what. Here's a guy who was willing to be coached, willing to be taught, willing to be part of something bigger than himself. He was willing to view himself as part of the machine instead of the machine. His teammates love him, his coaches love him, and ultimately his decision aligned with what is supposed to motivate athletes: winning. The same simpletons who will crush LeBron for being 3-5 in the finals are the ones who will place the asterisk on Durant's ring. They'll hate the NBA for being a star-dominated league and then when the star loses to the superior team they'll rip the star anyway.
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I said before the Finals that the Cavs' 2nd unit had to be great for them to compete
They were awful, not a single player in double digits in 5 games. Last night a total of 7 4 and 2 for bench players
Crazy idea, would C's do a deal where we took Love and gave up Crowder and Rozier
Cavs need to get younger and more versatile. Only if the Hayward thing doesn't happen
They were awful, not a single player in double digits in 5 games. Last night a total of 7 4 and 2 for bench players
Crazy idea, would C's do a deal where we took Love and gave up Crowder and Rozier
Cavs need to get younger and more versatile. Only if the Hayward thing doesn't happen
gtcam
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I doubt there are many people outside of Pittsburgh happy about the Penguins winning. Not a hockey fan, just the sense I get.
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Lebron wouldn't guard him last night in an elimination game as he watched KD torch his helpless teammates. How can that be explained?
And the "he was saving himself for offense" excuse doesn't cut it, because if KD continued to torch them (he did) they were going home no matter how great Lebron was on offense (he was great and they still went home). Their only shot to win (however slim) was to try to slow down KD and I would assume Lebron would be the man to do it.
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I feel like you took an amalgamation of other people's thoughts and made a TL;DR post of the thread up to this point, except this TL;DR actually ended up being the longest post of the entire thread.
August_West
Conscience do cost
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I wish someone would smash Crosbys face with a blunt hammer.
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intlzncster
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That's fair enough. Although I think a lot of that is Sidney Crosby. People just don't like that guy for whatever reason. EDIT: aaaaaaand see Auggie's post just above. lol
I just looked at some teams over the year and thought, "weird, nobody really hated teams like the Blackhawks or the Detroit Redwings". I was too young to know if the Oilers pissed everyone off.
intlzncster
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Nicely said.
I've never hated KD, and enjoy watching him play. My feeling on his free agency was summed up as disappointment, because I wanted to see a more balanced NBA. But all in all, can you argue KD made the wrong move? I cannot.
And people who place asterisks on rings are losers. End of the day, who's the Champ? KD and the Warriors. Everyone else can suck it.
intlzncster
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Well, if that's the case, it would save folks a whole lot of trouble for it to be pinned as post 1.
He definitely steps it up when it matters. Regular season a few years ago, he was not the best. But he uses his length very well in the playoffs, especially the last 2 years.
Agreed 100%.
There's definitely a broader analytics debate that Kyrie embodies. What's the value of creating your own shot and winning 1 on 1 vs. team pace and space basketball? Does it become more important in the playoffs when guys are "trying harder" (sub-question, are guys really more motivated and "locked in" during the playoffs?) There's a backlash against iso-ball because post-MJ players who weren't good enough at it were overdoing it, and teams would often defer to their franchise guy in key moments to their own detriment.
But this game has always been, and will always be, about buckets.
I don't agree with this. They've got two Avery Bradleys on the roster (JR Smith and Iman Shumpert). I understand that specifically against Golden State he's in a difficult spot because of Durant, but against literally every other team he's a big plus. His spacing and shooting destroyed Boston. His DREB% was 30% (and his outlets ignited their fast break), and he had a 60% TS% overall in the playoffs. He was still 6th in playoff win shares. I don't think it's a coincidence that the game in the Finals he shot well from 3, they won.
Nailed it.
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I know I've personally said most of the stuff regarding Durant either in this thread or the NBA season thread. I've thought since the middle of the season that Durant was the best player in the league.
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You have to be kidding. Durant is a total joke. He had to go to GSW with 3 top 15 players to be relevant.
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