March Other Big East Games

[August_West]

let's see what happens saturday but right now i'd take PC over Nova if i could choose.

technically we could get the 3 seed. if Creighton and pc both lose the last game we'd all be tied in the standings. we'd have a tiebreaker over crieghton since they got swept by marquette and we split. who gets the 3 seed between us and PC would come down to a coin flip.

It’s not going to happen.

 

[uconnfan68]

So your 25th beer is some kind of magic number after which you're considered trustworthy to be served a can?

Commas do add context.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yes, I watched the PC game last night and I can’t believe we watched the same game. I watch a lot of their games because I have a rivalry going with my son-in-law.

This conspiracy theory about the refs out to get DH is just nuts. Calls by refs are part of the game. They’re paid to be impartial, not to be perfect. No human being is. So, if they’re calling the game a certain way, a team under its coach’s leadership has to adjust. Complaining about the refs is just a fool’s errand.

Meanwhile you didn’t address any of the points I raised. Throughout the entire season, with Big East refs and non-BE refs. We’re one of the most foul prone teams in the country. That’s simply bad fundamentals. It was Forget about PC. What about all of the other games we’ve played? BE refs don’t like Hurley? What about all of the non-BE refs we faced in November & December?

You are refusing to face the reality that this has been a foul prone team all year and that’s been their undoing at times. Much easier to blame the refs than to accept reality.

Can you handle the truth?

I don't care about the fouls called against UConn. Most of those are legit, minus a few obvious ones like Hopkins slipping. I do think they were harder on UConn early this year due to Hurley, but I think that has stopped since he shut up. It's about uncalled fouls. Talking about the stats never accounts for that. Sure, PC isn't called for many fouls. That is precisely the problem, because they do commit them.

Cooley has even talked about it. He teaches them to bump and not reach. Great, but the bumps are fouls. The Big East doesn't call them. It's been frustrating for years, and it's not just the perimeter. I see Alex and Newton get absolutely wrecked on body fouls at the rim with no call because the arms weren't involved. It's a general failure in the way they call game, and one Cooley very intentionally exploits. You can say that's great coaching, and maybe it is, until they run into a crew that calls those.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Commas do add context.

Yes, but the necessary 'extra' came from the word "be" not having originally appeared after "to." That's what gave me an opening to treat the word "to" as though it had been "them."

All in fun, with thanks to @HitDog for the 'assist.'

 

[The Yakk]

I’m not sure what they are convincing of? You guys seem to be attributing any disparity to some conspiracy originating in the Big East office or simply contrived by the refs themselves. Where’s the evidence for that?

Considering only Big East games, the fact is that more fouls are called against PC at home than on the road. It is also a fact that more fouls are called against opponents than against PC BOTH at home AND on the road. The disparity IS greater in PC’s favor in the Dunk than it is elsewhere, but nonetheless calls are going in PC’s favor BOTH at home AND on the road.

So, what’s going on here? Well, another fact is that the Big East has some of the MOST foul prone teams in the country and some of the LEAST foul prone teams. Look at Creighton and Butler and you’ll find the same disparity that you find for PC. Here’s where Big East teams stand among all 363 D-1 teams on the official NCAA rankings for fewest personal fouls committed in all games.

1. Creighton (12.7)
3. Butler (13.1)
26. Georgetown (14.5)
53. Providence (15.2)
93. Villanova (15.9)
111. Marquette (16.1)
112. Xavier (16.1)
128. St. John’s (16.3)
247. Seton Hall (17.8)
290. DePaul (18.6)
304. UConn (18.8)

So, the bottom line is that regardless of who the opponent is, we are one of the most foul prone teams in the country. This is a bad idea for any team because it’s a way that teams beat themselves. It is an indicator of poor fundamentals on defense and as such, it is completely correctable by the coaching staff.

Complaining about the referees is a classic case of shooting the messenger. The refs call more fouls against us because our players commit more fouls than other teams do. Attributing this to the Big East HQ being in Providence is just lunacy. There is a disparity in foul calls at the Dunk because PC is one of the better teams in the country at playing defense without committing fouls.

Here’s another unpleasant fact. Our 12.7 turnovers per game rank us 188th in fewest TOVs among 363 D-1 teams, which is decidedly mediocre. A number of our losses can be directly attributed to too many TOVs. This is another sign of poor fundamentals. Again, look to the coaching staff. If the dual trends of committing fouls and turning the ball over are not corrected, we will be seeing an early exit from the tournaments because these are ways that teams beat themselves. In close games against evenly matched teams, these can be difference makers.

Man that's a lot. Some of it is actually true. None of it is in any way relevant to the question of how much Providence benefits from home cooking. In a debate we would call this long screed distraction or obfuscation.

This should be simple. Compare PC's FT differentials home and away.

Compare their record home and away.

Observe the manner in which they defend.

It is hard to deny that they benefit quite a lot from home cooking,

All teams do to some extent, of course, but UConn at least has been able to get good wins on the road or neutral sites. PC has not.

 

[The Yakk]

I’m not sure what they are convincing of? You guys seem to be attributing any disparity to some conspiracy originating in the Big East office or simply contrived by the refs themselves. Where’s the evidence for that? Nobody said anything about any conspiracy. This is arguing by hyperbole and also strawman fallacy. Probably the explanation is as simple as the refs being intimidated by PC's loud and loyal fans. Good for PC. But the point being made here is that a reckoning is coming for PC when they have to start playing games with unbiased refs.

Considering only Big East games, the fact is that more fouls are called against PC at home than on the road. It is also a fact that more fouls are called against opponents than against PC BOTH at home AND on the road. The disparity IS greater in PC’s favor in the Dunk than it is elsewhere, but nonetheless calls are going in PC’s favor BOTH at home AND on the road. Here you are using numbers to obscure the truth. Yes PC has a favorable FT differential on the road--because they are a good team! It would be weird if they did not have a positive differential. But the relevant stat to look at is the relative differential between home and road. One poster filtered that data to include only the good opponents, and the difference is even more stark. That is compelling evidence.

Going through a couple of your "arguments" in detail. Maybe this will help you see it differently.

 

[bendm]

It’s not going to happen.

i know it's 99% not going to happen. the point of the post was that i'm glad it won't happen because i'd rather play PC than Nova anyways.

 

[Billy Jack]

I don't care about the fouls called against UConn. Most of those are legit, minus a few obvious ones like Hopkins slipping. I do think they were harder on UConn early this year due to Hurley, but I think that has stopped since he shut up. It's about uncalled fouls. Talking about the stats never accounts for that. Sure, PC isn't called for many fouls. That is precisely the problem, because they do commit them.

Cooley has even talked about it. He teaches them to bump and not reach. Great, but the bumps are fouls. The Big East doesn't call them. It's been frustrating for years, and it's not just the perimeter. I see Alex and Newton get absolutely wrecked on body fouls at the rim with no call because the arms weren't involved. It's a general failure in the way they call game, and one Cooley very intentionally exploits. You can say that's great coaching, and maybe it is, until they run into a crew that calls those.

It is great coaching. If they don’t call it, then it’s not a foul. It’s the same in every sport. If the ump gives pitchers the outside corner, he’d be crazy not to take it. If he’s not giving it, then the pitcher has to adjust to that ump’s strike zone. Basketball is the same way. Players have to adjust to what the refs are allowing or not allowing on any given day. And coaches are supposed to help their players make those in-game adjustments. Complaining that the refs Don’t know what they’re doing is unproductive and is a waste of time. It would be like a football coach complaining about bad weather. Just play the game.

 

[UCSouth]

I don't care about the fouls called against UConn. Most of those are legit, minus a few obvious ones like Hopkins slipping. I do think they were harder on UConn early this year due to Hurley, but I think that has stopped since he shut up. It's about uncalled fouls. Talking about the stats never accounts for that. Sure, PC isn't called for many fouls. That is precisely the problem, because they do commit them.

Cooley has even talked about it. He teaches them to bump and not reach. Great, but the bumps are fouls. The Big East doesn't call them. It's been frustrating for years, and it's not just the perimeter. I see Alex and Newton get absolutely wrecked on body fouls at the rim with no call because the arms weren't involved. It's a general failure in the way they call game, and one Cooley very intentionally exploits. You can say that's great coaching, and maybe it is, until they run into a crew that calls those.

You're wasting keystrokes responding to him/her. I think that he/she is a closet PC fan that is just trolling to get a rise out of as many real Uconn Fans as possible.

 

[drayenob]

You're wasting keystrokes responding to him/her. I think that he/she is a closet PC fan that is just trolling to get a rise out of as many real Uconn Fans as possible.

Exactly this.

 

[Hurleyman216]

It is great coaching. If they don’t call it, then it’s not a foul. It’s the same in every sport. If the ump gives pitchers the outside corner, he’d be crazy not to take it. If he’s not giving it, then the pitcher has to adjust to that ump’s strike zone. Basketball is the same way. Players have to adjust to what the refs are allowing or not allowing on any given day. And coaches are supposed to help their players make those in-game adjustments. Complaining that the refs Don’t know what they’re doing is unproductive and is a waste of time. It would be like a football coach complaining about bad weather. Just play the game.

Good luck to your team (PC) in the tournament where bumps will be called for the fouls they are

 

[Rico444]

It is great coaching. If they don’t call it, then it’s not a foul. It’s the same in every sport. If the ump gives pitchers the outside corner, he’d be crazy not to take it. If he’s not giving it, then the pitcher has to adjust to that ump’s strike zone. Basketball is the same way. Players have to adjust to what the refs are allowing or not allowing on any given day. And coaches are supposed to help their players make those in-game adjustments. Complaining that the refs Don’t know what they’re doing is unproductive and is a waste of time. It would be like a football coach complaining about bad weather. Just play the game.

I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think it's the style they play and the way Big East games are called. That being said, it means that ultimately they're not as good a team on the road or on a neutral court. I wouldn't expect Providence to make a deep run in the NCAAs like I believe the other top teams in the conference could (It wouldn't shock me if any of Marquette, Xavier, Creighton, UConn made the Elite 8).

 

[TRest]

PC fans booing the team on senior day.

 

[Bomber36]

PC fans imploding…not that the Boneyard chat is any different. It’s just more fun when it’s not us.

Seton Hall at Providence game thread

Seton Hall at Providence game thread

247sports.com

 

[August_West]

Wow seton hall destroying them . Providence looks cooked. Glad I didn’t bet this

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

Providence being dismantled.

 

[Ripper32]

Down almost 20 against the Hall with no richmond. Crazy

 

[Hamms30]

Providence looks completely deflated.

 

[superjohn]

Seton Hall up 19 at the half with no Kadary Richmond at Providence. Providence has missed three 1 and 1's and Hall is torching their defense shooting around 70% from the floor.

This could really shake things up if Hall finishes this off.

 

[king conn]

We destroyed their confidence/ mojo

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Friars will make a run - just a question if they come all the way back or if the hole they dug is much too deep.

 

[REB1094]

Seton Hall up 19 at the half with no Kadary Richmond at Providence. Providence has missed three 1 and 1's and Hall is torching their defense shooting around 70% from the floor.

This could really shake things up if Hall finishes this off.

I think it was Femi that banked in a 3, otherwise not much has even been a lucky shot. Seton Hall is just outworking and outhustling Providence right now. Providence doesn't look like they want to play other than Bynum, who is getting HUNTED on defense

Hall is mucking the game up. That's the only area of the game where they will always be better than their opponents, and it's working so far. I expect Providence to make a strong 2nd half comeback, but it sure would be funny if they didn't

 

[zls44]

Did Ed tell them pregame he took the Georgetown job?

 

[BleedHuskyBlu]

Can providence drop to the 4/5 seed game with a loss and Creighton or UConn win?

 

[navery12]

Can providence drop to the 4/5 seed game with a loss and Creighton or UConn win?

With a loss Providence drops to the 4 unless Creighton also loses. If UConn wins they drop to the 5