LOL Pats Fans - it never ends

[Deadrody]

If you don't call every single Boston franchise the GOAT in their respective sport you're almost opening yourself up to debate from their fans.

Well, let's be honest. There is at least one sport where that label does not even come CLOSE to being applied to the Boston franchise. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say at least two.

 

[upstater]

Football players generally have a maximum peak performance of 3 years anyways. FO says he had a top 5 Oline that year and a top 10 running back. But by all means let's worship at the altar of Brady.

He has a top Oline every year. Practically. The fact that the Oline is made up of Dan Connolly, Ryan Wendell, Cam Fleming and a rookie 5th rounder might mean nothing to you. Granted, they have bookend top picks at the tackles, but in that particular year, Vollmer was injured the entire season, and UConn's own Daniel Thomas came out of oblivion (i.e. out of football) to do very well. And Connolly and Wendell are like a long string of UDFAs manning the interior of the Patriots line. Andruzzi, Neal (who hadn't even played football since Pop Warner), Compton, Grant Williams, Lane, Gorin, Ashworth, Hochstein, etc.

This is what Warren Sapp thought of Hochstein: "When asked by PTI co-hosts Michael Wilbon and Ton Kornheiser for his Super Bowl pick, Sapp said, “I think this defensive line of Carolina will dominate the front five of New England. I don't even think it's a fair matchup. I don't see how they're getting it done because I think Russ Hochstein started for them in the AFC Championship game and I've seen Russ Hochstein block, and he couldn't block either one of you two fellas. Russ Hochstein, trust me my friend, he couldn't block either of you two."

The sad thing is that I think Sapp was right.

 

[Deadrody]

You can call us Patriot fans crazy and delusional but we aren't the ones equating an under inflated football with anabolic steroid use

There are also knuckleheads that want to compare it to the bounties in New Orleans as equals as well. The bias against New England is off the charts.

 

[upstater]

You realize that goes back 15 years, right ? There are plenty of fans of the team you can say that about, that could be in college now, that were barely born before their run of excellence began.

Shhhh, I am a young handsome 6'5 195 pound guy.

 

[Deadrody]

Brady most likely will be suspended for a few games next season. How is that exonerated?

I'll believe that when it actually happens. Don't hold your breath waiting.

 

[upstater]

Basic thermodynamics, including principles such as the Ideal Gas Law, predict that the temperature and pressure inside a football will drop when it is brought from a warmer environment into a colder environment and rise when brought back into a warmer environment.

While measurements above the predicted levels can be accounted for by basic thermodynamics (because the halftime measurements were taken inside the Officials Locker Room at a temperature above the 48 degree equilibrium temperature used for the calculations, and the pressure of each ball would have risen as the balls warmed up), measurements below those levels cannot be explained by the Ideal Gas Law alone. In addition, the Ideal Gas Law fails to account for the transient nature of the halftime testing, which took place after the game balls had been moved back into the warmer Officials Locker Room but before they equilibrated with the locker room temperature.



Forgot this part of your analysis in regards to Ideal Gas Law, didn't you? The balls weren't measured on the field, but in the warmer room. The pepple who did this study took it into accout, but you had no idea they did.

A couple things. The gas law tests that others did, like the university professors, showed it takes 10 minutes for the balls to warm up a little.

Some of the Patriots balls could indeed have warmed up AFTER 10 minutes.

Ever wonder why they only checked 4 Colts balls?

The refs said that the 15 minutes were up and they had to get to the field. So they only tested 4.

The Colts balls were tested last!!!!!

And by the way, the Patriots balls were actually then pumped up on the field. And the same study looks at the post game measurements when the balls were pumped up on the field. Funny stuff.

 

[johnhuskies95]

He has a top Oline every year. Practically. The fact that the Oline is made up of Dan Connolly, Ryan Wendell, Cam Fleming and a rookie 5th rounder might mean nothing to you. Granted, they have bookend top picks at the tackles, but in that particular year, Vollmer was injured the entire season, and UConn's own Daniel Thomas came out of oblivion (i.e. out of football) to do very well. And Connolly and Wendell are like a long string of UDFAs manning the interior of the Patriots line. Andruzzi, Neal (who hadn't even played football since Pop Warner), Compton, Grant Williams, Lane, Gorin, Ashworth, Hochstein, etc.

This is what Warren Sapp thought of Hochstein: "When asked by PTI co-hosts Michael Wilbon and Ton Kornheiser for his Super Bowl pick, Sapp said, “I think this defensive line of Carolina will dominate the front five of New England. I don't even think it's a fair matchup. I don't see how they're getting it done because I think Russ Hochstein started for them in the AFC Championship game and I've seen Russ Hochstein block, and he couldn't block either one of you two fellas. Russ Hochstein, trust me my friend, he couldn't block either of you two."

The sad thing is that I think Sapp was right.

I don't know what this means. Are you saying that it's unique that an NFL team suffered injuries for its offensive line?

 

[superjohn]

He has a top Oline every year. Practically. The fact that the Oline is made up of Dan Connolly, Ryan Wendell, Cam Fleming and a rookie 5th rounder might mean nothing to you. Granted, they have bookend top picks at the tackles, but in that particular year, Vollmer was injured the entire season, and UConn's own Daniel Thomas came out of oblivion (i.e. out of football) to do very well. And Connolly and Wendell are like a long string of UDFAs manning the interior of the Patriots line. Andruzzi, Neal (who hadn't even played football since Pop Warner), Compton, Grant Williams, Lane, Gorin, Ashworth, Hochstein, etc.

This is what Warren Sapp thought of Hochstein: "When asked by PTI co-hosts Michael Wilbon and Ton Kornheiser for his Super Bowl pick, Sapp said, “I think this defensive line of Carolina will dominate the front five of New England. I don't even think it's a fair matchup. I don't see how they're getting it done because I think Russ Hochstein started for them in the AFC Championship game and I've seen Russ Hochstein block, and he couldn't block either one of you two fellas. Russ Hochstein, trust me my friend, he couldn't block either of you two."

The sad thing is that I think Sapp was right.

Wait, Brady gets all the credit for having good offensive lines? I think most people would say Brady not having to scramble for his life has contributed to his effectiveness. His name is Donald Thomas and he is a damn good offensive lineman but injuries have derailed his career.

 

[upstater]

I don't know what this means. Are you saying that it's unique that an NFL team suffered injuries for its offensive line?

Injuries? Huh? These are the starters. Not injuries.

 

[upstater]

Wait, Brady gets all the credit for having good offensive lines? I think most people would say Brady not having to scramble for his life has contributed to his effectiveness. His name is Donald Thomas and he is a damn good offensive lineman but injuries have derailed his career.

Thomas was such a good offensive lineman that he spent a year and a half out of football.

As for Brady, master of moving around the pocket, quick release. Allows the Patriots to get away with the cheapest OL in football. They always have a good left tackle, but in 15 years, they have expended 2 draft choices on the position. Matt Light and Solder.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Injuries? Huh? These are the starters. Not injuries.

So what are you saying? The Patriots oline isn't good? You can try and circumvent all the numbers if you want, they still exist.

 

[David 76]

Yes, for most teams. I also noticed in the last 15 years Brady has had a slew of WRs that did nothing anywhere else, a bunch of no name RBs who didn't do much of anything anywhere else (other than Corey Dillon), and a bunch of OL who were UDFA and worse, never played college football, and somehow he was the QB in 6 Super Bowls. If you don't think the Patriots O is 99% Brady, I'd ask if you're sniffing glue.

Wow! Belichick must suck at getting talent! The whole team sucks!

 

[Dove]

 

[David 76]

I heard 3 months.

Hope that doesn't affect their 15 year"run of excellence"

 

[Dove]

 

[zyron]

The Colts balls were tested last!!!!!
.

How long do you think it takes to take the pressure of a football?

 

[intlzncster]

According to Exponent, the environmental conditions with the most significant impact on the halftime measurements were the temperature in the Officials Locker Room when the game balls were tested prior to the game and at halftime, the temperature on the field during the first half of the game, the amount of time elapsed between when the game balls were brought back to the Officials Locker Room at halftime and when they were tested, and whether the game balls were wet or dry when they were tested. Within the range of conditions most likely to have occurred on game day, and, where possible, setting the experimental parameters to levels that would maximize the possibility of replicating the Patriots halftime measurements, Exponent concluded that the Colts halftime measurements were explainable by physical and environmental factors alone, but that the experiments and simulations failed to explain the halftime measurements recorded for the Patriots game balls
You just pick and choose what you want.

Exponent is a hired gun. Anyone can pay someone to espouse what it is that they want to show.

This is the same firm that denied second hand smoke causes cancer. Their research has been heavily criticized time and again.

A February 2010 article in the Los Angeles Times, which was brought to my attention on Twitter by Rich Hill of Pats Pulpit, alleges that Exponent is a “hired gun” called upon by major corporations to “weather messy disputes.”

The article also states that Exponent’s scientific standards are right to be criticized.

“But Exponent’s research has come under fire from critics, including engineers, attorneys and academics who say the company tends to deliver to clients the reports they need to mount a public defense.”

 

[mauconnfan]

I believe the funniest thing is your fans ability to find the articles that agree with your inability to cope with the truth.

 

[zyron]

Exponent is a hired gun. Anyone can pay someone to espouse what it is that they want to show.

This is the same firm that denied second hand smoke causes cancer. Their research has been heavily criticized time and again.

So according to you, the NFL hired someone to frame one of their most popular teams and players as cheaters, just after that team won the Superbowl. They did this, at the same time as the league is getting killed with stories of spousal abuse, child abuse, DUI's, ...

Upstater is on here discussing the data like he is a scientist and now this.

 

[Bonehead]

Where's your source?

This is mine: https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.c...-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh1.pdf

Your numbers are wrong. Ideal Gas law doesn't predict a drop of .66. It predicts a drop of 1.12. Read page 58.



The fall is from 12.5 PSI to a low range of 11.32

I also addressed why Exponent thinks the two different measurements of the sets of balls are nearly impossible. It states:

And this...



No surprise there at all.

That the Patriots balls DID fall as predicted while the Colts balls DIDN'T can't be explained except by another factor.

I have been saying this all along.

These idiots were looking for a result and used the Colts balls as control.

They even write here on page 58 that the Ideal Gas Law predicts the fall of 1.12.

And yet the Colts balls didn't drop????!!?

They didn't even take into account the wet weather.

What about the texts? Or was it a drop in temp where phone users could not hit correct keys on phones. What page is that on?

 

[upstater]

So what are you saying? The Patriots oline isn't good? You can try and circumvent all the numbers if you want, they still exist.

The OLine, at least 4 of the starters that year, were scrapheap guys. They might have been the best OL in the league according to your numbers. But they were scrapheap guys, and the ones that left never did anything anywhere else.

 

[Jerry1714]

You realize that goes back 15 years, right ? There are plenty of fans of the team you can say that about, that could be in college now, that were barely born before their run of excellence began.

Are 90% of their fans in college?

Not a worse fan base in the NFL than the Pats. Such phonys, but hey they take after their QB, and will be gone after their QB retires.

 

[upstater]

Wow! Belichick must suck at getting talent! The whole team sucks!

90% of the top draft picks are expended on defense.

McCourty, Logan Ryan, Tavon Wilson, Jordan Richards, Darius Butler, Patrick Chung, Brandon Meriweather, Dom Easley, Jamie Collins, Malcolm Brown, Donte Hightower, Chandler Jones, Ras-I Dowling, Jermaine Cunningham, Brandon Spikes, Ron Brace, Jerod Mayo, Terence Wheatley.

When you look at this Patriots team, it has two guys in those top 2 rounds, Nate Solder and Gronkowski, and everyone else is FA, UDFA, or even low rounder like Edelman, a 7th. Meanwhile, you have 14 Patriots on D taken in the first 2.

 

[upstater]

How long do you think it takes to take the pressure of a football?

I posted a link to the physicist who thinks it happens gradually. Read the link above.

At the end of the day, you and I will never agree on the deflation drop. All I'm saying is that it was within range. And it was.

If you really want to look at some craziness in the report, the Patriots intercepted ball was tested 3 times on the field. NOT INSIDE. It tested 11.75, 11.45 and 11.35.

That's quite a bit of variance. With only one gauge. The scientists tried to remove the gauge question from the equation by saying that only a tiny bit of air was let out of the ball each reinsertion of the gauge, not enough really to measure. And yet we see huge variance in the ball tested outside in the cold weather, and variance in the balls tested inside by the two referees.

And yet here we are starting with a baseline of 12.50 each and every time for the Patriots balls.

Does it seem odd to you that the gauges are so wide apart, even on a single ball, and yet we have absolute baselines?

 

[upstater]

What about the texts? Or was it a drop in temp where phone users could not hit correct keys on phones. What page is that on?

Asked. Answered. Texts are as relevant as Rodgers' admission he had the ball overinflated after refs deflated them.

 

[upstater]

Are 90% of their fans in college?

Not a worse fan base in the NFL than the Pats. Such phonys, but hey they take after their QB, and will be gone after their QB retires.

This is one of the dumbest posts ever. Patriots fans went through Holovak, Fairbanks, Erhardt and Rust. Diehard fans. Years of losing. Weve been through it all. We don't give up like Fireman Ed and the NY Twerps.

 

[mauconnfan]

I posted a link to the physicist who thinks it happens gradually. Read the link above.

At the end of the day, you and I will never agree on the deflation drop. All I'm saying is that it was within range. And it was.

If you really want to look at some craziness in the report, the Patriots intercepted ball was tested 3 times on the field. NOT INSIDE. It tested 11.75, 11.45 and 11.35.

That's quite a bit of variance. With only one gauge. The scientists tried to remove the gauge question from the equation by saying that only a tiny bit of air was let out of the ball each reinsertion of the gauge, not enough really to measure. And yet we see huge variance in the ball tested outside in the cold weather, and variance in the balls tested inside by the two referees.

And yet here we are starting with a baseline of 12.50 each and every time for the Patriots balls.

Does it seem odd to you that the gauges are so wide apart, even on a single ball, and yet we have absolute baselines?

You really need to stop the science portion and look at technology up. Maybe answer the text question? I mean whether or not they were whatever they were relative to weight or less, he asked them to cheat for him right? The rest means very little quite honestly.

 

[mauconnfan]

Asked. Answered. Texts are as relevant as Rodgers' admission he had the ball overinflated after refs deflated them.

That's BS unless of course you are a Pats fan who ignores the obvious I guess.

 

[mauconnfan]

This is one of the dumbest posts ever. Patriots fans went through Holovak, Fairbanks, Erhardt and Rust. Diehard fans. Years of losing. Weve been through it all. We don't give up like Fireman Ed and the NY Twerps.

Not ALL Pats fans there are many "newbies" many in Mass here who admit they went back after the started winning. Jerry is more accurate that you from what I see and hear up here.

 

[upstater]

So according to you, the NFL hired someone to frame one of their most popular teams and players as cheaters, just after that team won the Superbowl. They did this, at the same time as the league is getting killed with stories of spousal abuse, child abuse, DUI's, ...

Upstater is on here discussing the data like he is a scientist and now this.

I have no qualms with Exponent's data. None at all. Quite the opposite, I have been using it. I have a problem with Wells taking the extreme unlikelihood that the Colts and Patriots balls can have those readings as evidence the Patriots balls were tampered with.

And for the life of me I can't understand why you think it is difficult to read about how air is supposed to drop in a football with temperature changes. It's not that difficult. You don't have to be a scientist.

This is like certain politicians who say idiotic things like, "I'm not a scientist. [Therefore I'll continue doing my stupid stuff].