LOL Pats Fans - it never ends

[upstater]

Dude, come on. Kraft was defending the Ray Rice thing publicly in the face of all the backlash. Even Richard Sherman has joked about how close they are with each other.

Read this article. Kraft wants him to speak to a reporter, he speaks to said reporter.

Don't you think it's pretty ironic that Goodell was being defended this way, and yet the very idea that the NFL didn't see the Rice tape is totally improbable. The NFL claims they never saw it, then proof is shown that the NFL received the tape, and somehow, improbably, they still never saw it? Absurd.

 

[upstater]

"According to our scientific consultants, however, the reduction in pressure of the Patriots game balls cannot be explained completely by basic scientific principles, such as the Ideal Gas Law, based on the circumstances and conditions likely to have been present on the day of the AFC Championship Game. In addition, the average pressure drop of the Patriots game balls exceeded the average pressure drop of the Colts balls by 0.45 to 1.02 psi..."

As I said, look at page 77. The Ideal Gas Law predicts a drop of 1.22 PSI according to the reports scientists. The Colts balls didn't drop that much. The patriots balls did.

 

[David 76]

Physics is not my forte. Do you have expertise here?

 

[August_West]

This thread went all improvisational while maintaining the inherent bad blood of NY vs. Boston . Epic.

Exceeded expectations.

 

[upstater]

Physics is not my forte. Do you have expertise here?

Do you have a UConn degree?

If so, you should be able to understand these words, "According to Ideal Gas Law calculations, a ball that is measured at 12.5 PSI in 72 degree weather should drop by 1.22 PSI in 48 degree weather 30 minutes later."

 

[mauconnfan]

This thread went all improvisational while maintaining the inherent bad blood of NY vs. Boston . Epic.

Exceeded expectations.

There's a difference between bad blood and absolute denial.

 

[upstater]

There's a difference between bad blood and absolute denial.

Agreed. Cant deny science.

 

[CL82]

Yup that's it, it's all imaginary. The fine the Patriots get and the games Brady is suspended will also be imaginary I guess.

Um, since they haven't happened, yeah, they pretty much are.

 

[David 76]

Do you have a UConn degree?

If so, you should be able to understand these words, "According to Ideal Gas Law calculations, a ball that is measured at 12.5 PSI in 72 degree weather should drop by 1.22 PSI in 48 degree weather 30 minutes later."

Except quotes saying the exact opposite have gone around as well. I thought maybe you had some special background to add credibility. I know you can scream homerism with the best of them.

You certainly don't need to make that quote again but you might want to notice that it is written in a report that finds a problem with what the Pats did and has other parts than the 1 you quote..

I graduated and did quite well. I did a Social Psychology study demonstrating that Yankee fans, on average, have an IQ that is 15 points higher than Red Sox fans. But that was back in 1976. The difference grew exponentially after 2004

 

[upstater]

Except quotes saying the exact opposite have gone around as well. I thought maybe you had some special background to add credibility. I know you can scream homerism with the best of them.

You certainly don't need to make that quote again but you might want to notice that it is written in a report that finds a problem with what the Pats did and has other parts than the 1 you quote..

I graduated and did quite well. I did a Social Psychology study demonstrating that Yankee fans, on average, have an IQ that is 15 points higher than Red Sox fans. But that was back in 1976. The difference grew exponentially after 2004

What quotes addressed the fact that the balls fells exactly as predicted?

The rest of what you wrote isnt even relevant to what we're talking about.

The whole situation with the numbers is not that they fell out of the range predicted, but rather that no one can explain why the colts and Patriots balls are so different. It says that in the Wells report.

All the scientists that have weighed in so far have made the same point. Science cannot explain why the Colts balls and the Patriots balls are so different. There is not simple explanation for that.

Now, there are variables that can explain it, but the point is still that the Patriots balls comported with the laws of science.

And I've heard absolutely no one contest that, not even Wells. Wells simply dismissed the science because the people he hired could not explain the difference in the Patriots and Colts balls.

 

[zyron]

Agreed. Cant deny science.

Based on extensive testing and analysis, however, Exponent concluded that, within the range of game conditions and circumstances most likely to have occurred on game day, they could identify no set of credible physical or environmental factors that completely accounts for the magnitude of the reduction in air pressure of the Patriots footballs or the additional drop in air pressure exhibited by the Patriots game balls, as compared to the drop in air pressure exhibited by the Colts game balls

the measurements for all but three of the Patriots game balls, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.66 As a result, Exponent concluded that application of the Ideal Gas Law within the context of the most likely game day conditions cannot account entirely for the pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements.

When compared to the reported pre-game pressures of 12.5 psi and 13.0 psi, respectively, the average pressure drop of the Patriots game balls exceeded the average pressure drop of the Colts balls by 0.45 to 1.02 psi, depending on various assumptions regarding the gauges used. According to both Exponent and Dr. Marlow, the difference in the average pressure drops between the Patriots and Colts footballs is statistically significant



But you sure are trying to deny it, aren't you?

 

[David 76]

Upstater will look at your post, zyron, and see a blank page.

 

[zyron]

Upstater will look at your post, zyron, and see a blank page.

I think when Brady gets suspended, Upstater will post on here that the NFL rewarded Brady with time off for his honesty and fair play.

 

[superjohn]

Upstater sounds like a crazy person.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Upstater sounds like a crazy person.

I like Upstater, but he's the same guy that argued that Brady's passer rating should be higher than Rodgers' because Brady's running backs are better.

 

[David 76]

Upstater sounds like a crazy person.

No, only on topics like this.

 

[upstater]

Based on extensive testing and analysis, however, Exponent concluded that, within the range of game conditions and circumstances most likely to have occurred on game day, they could identify no set of credible physical or environmental factors that completely accounts for the magnitude of the reduction in air pressure of the Patriots footballs or the additional drop in air pressure exhibited by the Patriots game balls, as compared to the drop in air pressure exhibited by the Colts game balls

the measurements for all but three of the Patriots game balls, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.66 As a result, Exponent concluded that application of the Ideal Gas Law within the context of the most likely game day conditions cannot account entirely for the pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements.

When compared to the reported pre-game pressures of 12.5 psi and 13.0 psi, respectively, the average pressure drop of the Patriots game balls exceeded the average pressure drop of the Colts balls by 0.45 to 1.02 psi, depending on various assumptions regarding the gauges used. According to both Exponent and Dr. Marlow, the difference in the average pressure drops between the Patriots and Colts footballs is statistically significant



But you sure are trying to deny it, aren't you?

Where's your source?

This is mine: https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.c...-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh1.pdf

Your numbers are wrong. Ideal Gas law doesn't predict a drop of .66. It predicts a drop of 1.12. Read page 58.

According to Exponent, based on the most likely pressure and temperature values for the Patriots game balls on the day of the AFC Championship Game (i.e., a starting pressure of 12.5 psi, a starting temperature of between 67 and 71 degrees and a final temperature of 48 degrees), the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room.

The fall is from 12.5 PSI to a low range of 11.32

I also addressed why Exponent thinks the two different measurements of the sets of balls are nearly impossible. It states:

As a result, Exponent concluded that application of the Ideal Gas Law within the context of the most likely game day conditions cannot account entirely for the pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements. In contrast, if one were to use the most likely pressure and temperature values for the Colts game balls on the day of the AFC Championship Game (i.e., a starting pressure of 13.0 psi, a starting temperature of between 67 and 71 degrees and a final temperature of 48 degrees), the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Colts balls should have measured between 12.00 and 11.80 psi at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. All of the Colts measurements recorded at halftime were above this range, once converted into a corresponding “Master Gauge” pressure, and therefore can be explained by the applicable scientific principles.

And this...

This conclusion was consistent regardless of the assumptions made as to which of the two gauges was used to measure the game balls prior to the game and at halftime. In all scenarios considered, Exponent determined that the additional reduction in air pressure exhibited by the Patriots game balls was unlikely to have occurred by chance. In fact, when the halftime measurements are attributed to the gauges most likely to have generated those measurements, there is only a 0.4% likelihood—a fraction of one percent—that the difference in average pressure drops between the teams occurred by chance.

No surprise there at all.

That the Patriots balls DID fall as predicted while the Colts balls DIDN'T can't be explained except by another factor.

I have been saying this all along.

These idiots were looking for a result and used the Colts balls as control.

They even write here on page 58 that the Ideal Gas Law predicts the fall of 1.12.

And yet the Colts balls didn't drop????!!?

They didn't even take into account the wet weather.

 

[zyron]

Where's your source?

This is mine: https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.c...-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh1.pdf

The same exact source, but my numbers are wrong. You are picking and choosing what you want to read.

 

[upstater]

The same exact source, but my numbers are wrong. You are picking and choosing what you want to read.

OK. I mean, are you joking that your numbers are wrong? I have basically stated from the get go here that their conclusions don't make sense but that their numbers do.

I agreed with Exponent's numbers.
I agreed with Exponent's conclusion that the Pats balls and Colts balls don't make sense.
I disagreed with the conclusion that this must mean tampering. For good reason.

 

[upstater]

I like Upstater, but he's the same guy that argued that Brady's passer rating should be higher than Rodgers' because Brady's running backs are better.

And no....

The backs were so good, in fact, Ridley, Vereen and Green-Ellis, that they arent even around any more.

 

[zyron]

They didn't even take into account the wet weather.

According to Exponent, the environmental conditions with the most significant impact on the halftime measurements were the temperature in the Officials Locker Room when the game balls were tested prior to the game and at halftime, the temperature on the field during the first half of the game, the amount of time elapsed between when the game balls were brought back to the Officials Locker Room at halftime and when they were tested, and whether the game balls were wet or dry when they were tested. Within the range of conditions most likely to have occurred on game day, and, where possible, setting the experimental parameters to levels that would maximize the possibility of replicating the Patriots halftime measurements, Exponent concluded that the Colts halftime measurements were explainable by physical and environmental factors alone, but that the experiments and simulations failed to explain the halftime measurements recorded for the Patriots game balls


You just pick and choose what you want.

 

[upstater]

According to Exponent, the environmental conditions with the most significant impact on the halftime measurements were the temperature in the Officials Locker Room when the game balls were tested prior to the game and at halftime, the temperature on the field during the first half of the game, the amount of time elapsed between when the game balls were brought back to the Officials Locker Room at halftime and when they were tested, and whether the game balls were wet or dry when they were tested. Within the range of conditions most likely to have occurred on game day, and, where possible, setting the experimental parameters to levels that would maximize the possibility of replicating the Patriots halftime measurements, Exponent concluded that the Colts halftime measurements were explainable by physical and environmental factors alone, but that the experiments and simulations failed to explain the halftime measurements recorded for the Patriots game balls


You just pick and choose what you want.

But except for that, I'm right?

By the way, I only thought that about the wet balls because of this guy: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-tom-brady-deflategate-scientist-050715

"The glaring omission is how they handled the wet football," said Syphers, who has taught physics at Bowdoin for 28 years. "There's a point in the report where they look at what the effect would be in bringing a football from 48 degrees to 70 degrees and the effect that would have if it were dry and if it were a wet football. One of the things that their data doesn't show is it shows no evaporative cooling —€” cooling due to the evaporation of the water. And that is counter to what my experiments showed."

 

[johnhuskies95]

And no....

The backs were so good, in fact, Ridley, Vereen and Green-Ellis, that they arent even around any more.

Haha, are you denying what you said? And all of those guys are better than Alex Green.

 

[upstater]

Haha, are you denying what you said? And all of those guys are better than Alex Green.

Never said it was because of better backs. I wrote they scored 19 more rushing TDs, a much better offense. And 4 of those TDs were by Brady (rushing).

 

[johnhuskies95]

Never said it was because of better backs. I wrote they scored 19 more rushing TDs, a much better offense. And 4 of those TDs were by Brady (rushing).

You do know that there is much more that goes into an offense than the quarterback, right? Are you a proponent of the win statistic in baseball?

 

[upstater]

You do know that there is much more that goes into an offense than the quarterback, right? Are you a proponent of the win statistic in baseball?

Yes, for most teams. I also noticed in the last 15 years Brady has had a slew of WRs that did nothing anywhere else, a bunch of no name RBs who didn't do much of anything anywhere else (other than Corey Dillon), and a bunch of OL who were UDFA and worse, never played college football, and somehow he was the QB in 6 Super Bowls. If you don't think the Patriots O is 99% Brady, I'd ask if you're sniffing glue.

 

[zyron]

Where's your source?

This is mine: https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.c...-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh1.pdf

Your numbers are wrong. Ideal Gas law doesn't predict a drop of .66. It predicts a drop of 1.12. Read page 58.

.

Basic thermodynamics, including principles such as the Ideal Gas Law, predict that the temperature and pressure inside a football will drop when it is brought from a warmer environment into a colder environment and rise when brought back into a warmer environment.

While measurements above the predicted levels can be accounted for by basic thermodynamics (because the halftime measurements were taken inside the Officials Locker Room at a temperature above the 48 degree equilibrium temperature used for the calculations, and the pressure of each ball would have risen as the balls warmed up), measurements below those levels cannot be explained by the Ideal Gas Law alone. In addition, the Ideal Gas Law fails to account for the transient nature of the halftime testing, which took place after the game balls had been moved back into the warmer Officials Locker Room but before they equilibrated with the locker room temperature.



Forgot this part of your analysis in regards to Ideal Gas Law, didn't you? The balls weren't measured on the field, but in the warmer room. The pepple who did this study took it into accout, but you had no idea they did.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Yes, for most teams. I also noticed in the last 15 years Brady has had a slew of WRs that did nothing anywhere else, a bunch of no name RBs who didn't do much of anything anywhere else (other than Corey Dillon), and a bunch of OL who were UDFA and worse, never played college football, and somehow he was the QB in 6 Super Bowls. If you don't think the Patriots O is 99% Brady, I'd ask if you're sniffing glue.

Football players generally have a maximum peak performance of 3 years anyways. FO says he had a top 5 Oline that year and a top 10 running back. But by all means let's worship at the altar of Brady.

 

[BoatShow]

 

[Deadrody]

Upstarter probably never watched a Pats game pre Brady and Belicheck, but that is about 90% of their fan base.

You realize that goes back 15 years, right ? There are plenty of fans of the team you can say that about, that could be in college now, that were barely born before their run of excellence began.