LOL Pats Fans - it never ends

[Sportsman5]

How am I in denial? All I did was point out that the retroactive APR is nothing like the Patriots situation. If people want to say Calhoun's legacy is tainted for those extra text messages that's fine, rules were broken and we were penalized for it. You can claim the Patriots have never cheated and nothing on the field was ever compromised, I disagree with you and so does the NFL.

There is a small penalty for what the pats may have done. The NFL took the liberyt to penalize them way beyond what the rules dictated at the time of the potential transgression. This also happened to UConn. There is a similarity between Goodell and Emmert. In both cases UConn and the patriots were used as an example to overcompensate for their damaged reputation. The NCAA has a rep for not caring about academics and the NFL duck*ed up the ray rice thing and completely overcompensated for it with this punishment. In addition, emmert had an axe to grind with UConn, and Goodell wanted to crush the pats because Kraft said that if the NFL doesn't find definitive evidence against the pats, then he wants an apology from the NFL and Goodell. There wasn't any sort of conclusive evidence, but some how the NFL comes to a conclusion that allows them and Goodell to accomplish their goals. All of these things are true. Whether you believe brady ordered the balls to be deflated or not is up to you. No one knows the truth. However, there's no question that there wasn't conclusive evidence. And there's no question that the pats and Uconn situation mirror each other in many ways.

 

[fatlucy]

Guilty as long as your guilt can be presumed. Presumed? In what U.S. court does presumed guilty hold up? It's anti-American!

 

[David 76]

Cuts both ways doesn't it?

If I was a Giants, or even a Jets fan, that might cut. But I'm not. You're the one calling your future coaches cheaters. I'm untouched.

 

[zyron]

There is a small penalty for what the pats may have done. The NFL took the liberyt to penalize them way beyond what the rules dictated at the time of the potential transgression. This also happened to UConn. There is a similarity between Goodell and Emmert. In both cases UConn and the patriots were used as an example to overcompensate for their damaged reputation. The NCAA has a rep for not caring about academics and the NFL duck*ed up the ray rice thing and completely overcompensated for it with this punishment. In addition, emmert had an axe to grind with UConn, and Goodell wanted to crush the pats because Kraft said that if the NFL doesn't find definitive evidence against the pats, then he wants an apology from the NFL and Goodell. There wasn't any sort of conclusive evidence, but some how the NFL comes to a conclusion that allows them and Goodell to accomplish their goals. All of these things are true. Whether you believe brady ordered the balls to be deflated or not is up to you. No one knows the truth. However, there's no question that there wasn't conclusive evidence. And there's no question that the pats and Uconn situation mirror each other in many ways.

Sounds like a bunch of your opinions, not truths.

 

[TasteofUConn]

I think he is going to win the appeal easily if they go to a neutral arbitrator, which they don't have to do.

The NFL should use another lawyer from the Paul Weiss law firm as the "neutral" arbitrator with "impeccable" credentials that are "beyond question." Why limit the farce to what we've seen so far?

 

[jleves]

Not sure why I'm dipping a toe in water here, but I've been following the thread for days and now finally the penalty has been dished.

First, I am anything but a Patriot hater. They are my favorite AFC team and 2nd favorite team (but a long way back from my beloved Cardinals) and if my team can't win the Super Bowl (and they can't) then my next choice is always the Pats.

Anyone who thinks that Brady did not actively try to have the balls manipulated outside the rules is simply not being open minded. It's quite obvious. When you have an equipment manager nicknamed the Deflater, you are obviously manipulating balls and over a long period of time. The arguments against this being wrong are as ridiculous as well.

1) Just because everyone else does it doesn't mean you don't get punished when you get caught. If you don't think so, go faster than the speed limit and then tell the judge you shouldn't have to pay for the ticket because many other drivers go over the speed limit.

1a) The Patriots got caught because they are under the microscope and it's not fair. Well, perhaps you should realize you've been caught before so people are going to have a closer eye on you and you win a lot so people are going to be watching even more so make sure you keep things squeaky clean. How many of you here want no reaches on recruiting for possible problem kids just to make sure we don't get caught again. It's the same thing for the Patriots. Of course you're being watched - you're winning.

2) The gas law numbers don't show conclusive proof that they did anything. WTF cares about that. If you are right and they were within tolerance that only means they failed at cheating well. They intended to manipulate the balls and didn't do it well enough to have conclusive evidence but they obviously tried. Not much more stupid than failing at cheating. If you looked at another persons paper during a test and read the answer for a different question and therefore got your question wrong, it doesn't mean you didn't cheat. It just means you're stupid.

That being said, I definitely expected a 4 game suspension and I think on appeal it will be reduced to 2. I was shocked at the draft picks being taken away particularly the 1st rounder. The money doesn't matter one way or another. The two picks are pretty big. They may take back the 4th round pick removal on appeal, but I bet the 1st round take away will stand. They are sending a message.

The flat out denial and subsequent failure to cooperate and sudden phone calls and texts are the reason it's so harsh.

I have no problem with it.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

Still waiting for the cries to take Rodgers' MVP away and/or 4-game suspension, $1M fine, loss of a 1st and 4th pick. Until then, I'm just chalking this up to ESPN flexing their muscle (not to mention the TMZ hack 'reporting' job on this) and Goodell simply going with where the wind was blowing.

 

[upstater]

If I was a Giants, or even a Jets fan, that might cut. But I'm not. You're the one calling your future coaches cheaters. I'm untouched.

I'll say it again. My concern is Brady playing, and now loss of draft picks. The sissy stuff about cheating, I am less concerned about.

I was right when it was shown in the report that the balls were not deflated below what you'd expect.

The only way that wells came to another conclusion was by lying. That much has been proven by even Mike Florio at NBC and Peter King.

 

[upstater]

Not sure why I'm dipping a toe in water here, but I've been following the thread for days and now finally the penalty has been dished.

First, I am anything but a Patriot hater. They are my favorite AFC team and 2nd favorite team (but a long way back from my beloved Cardinals) and if my team can't win the Super Bowl (and they can't) then my next choice is always the Pats.

Anyone who thinks that Brady did not actively try to have the balls manipulated outside the rules is simply not being open minded. It's quite obvious. When you have an equipment manager nicknamed the Deflater, you are obviously manipulating balls and over a long period of time. The arguments against this being wrong are as ridiculous as well.

1) Just because everyone else does it doesn't mean you don't get punished when you get caught. If you don't think so, go faster than the speed limit and then tell the judge you shouldn't have to pay for the ticket because many other drivers go over the speed limit.

1a) The Patriots got caught because they are under the microscope and it's not fair. Well, perhaps you should realize you've been caught before so people are going to have a closer eye on you and you win a lot so people are going to be watching even more so make sure you keep things squeaky clean. How many of you here want no reaches on recruiting for possible problem kids just to make sure we don't get caught again. It's the same thing for the Patriots. Of course you're being watched - you're winning.

2) The gas law numbers don't show conclusive proof that they did anything. WTF cares about that. If you are right and they were within tolerance that only means they failed at cheating well. They intended to manipulate the balls and didn't do it well enough to have conclusive evidence but they obviously tried. Not much more stupid than failing at cheating. If you looked at another persons paper during a test and read the answer for a different question and therefore got your question wrong, it doesn't mean you didn't cheat. It just means you're stupid.

That being said, I definitely expected a 4 game suspension and I think on appeal it will be reduced to 2. I was shocked at the draft picks being taken away particularly the 1st rounder. The money doesn't matter one way or another. The two picks are pretty big. They may take back the 4th round pick removal on appeal, but I bet the 1st round take away will stand. They are sending a message.

The flat out denial and subsequent failure to cooperate and sudden phone calls and texts are the reason it's so harsh.

I have no problem with it.

This is about the AFCCG. That's what triggered this.

And, you claim they deflated the balls each game? then how did they get balls that were well overinflated after games? Why would Brady tell them to bring the rule book to the refs to make sure the balls were down to 13?

The funniest thing about these claims is that the report says the whole event was kicked off because the Colts discovered the Patriots had been using deflated balls in their previous game. Uh, the previous game was in Indy! Then we heard the kicking balls in the Ravens game were exalted. Until the Ravens found out the refs control those balls the whole game and they use the same balls for both teams.Then the Colts gave the intercepted ball to the NFL and it was measured at... 11.75 PSI. what a joke

 

[jleves]

This is about the AFCCG. That's what triggered this.

And, you claim they deflated the balls each game? then how did they get balls that were well overinflated after games? Why would Brady tell them to bring the rule book to the refs to make sure the balls were down to 13?

The funniest thing about these claims is that the report says the whole event was kicked off because the Colts discovered the Patriots had been using deflated balls in their previous game. Uh, the previous game was in Indy! Then we heard the kicking balls in the Ravens game were exalted. Until the Ravens found out the refs control those balls the whole game and they use the same balls for both teams.Then the Colts gave the intercepted ball to the NFL and it was measured at... 11.75 PSI. what a joke

Trust me - when I was making the post, I knew you would be first up to tell me I was wrong. Bottom line - they have an equipment manager nicknamed the Deflater. There's nothing more a reasonable person needs to know.

 

[Fishy]

Bottom line - they have an equipment manager nicknamed the Deflater.

Boom.

 

[Sportsman5]

Sounds like a bunch of your opinions, not truths.

ok. let me rephrase.

In the context of the debate you will see that I am correct.

The debate was whether or not UCONN and the patriots are the same type of situation. In other words, you would have to be very biased to say uconn was screwed, but the patriots were not. You can say either UConn and the patriots deserved what they got or that both got screwed. each case VERY closely mirrors each other. That was my main point. What I did not take into account is the person who doesn't believe the NFL or NCAA are corrupt. Most believe they are corrupt and make stupid illogical decisions. You would have to be insanely biased to say that only one team was screwed and not the other. However, a huge percent of those people who meet that criteria are on this board.

 

[superjohn]

There is a small penalty for what the pats may have done. The NFL took the liberyt to penalize them way beyond what the rules dictated at the time of the potential transgression. This also happened to UConn. There is a similarity between Goodell and Emmert. In both cases UConn and the patriots were used as an example to overcompensate for their damaged reputation. The NCAA has a rep for not caring about academics and the NFL duck*ed up the ray rice thing and completely overcompensated for it with this punishment. In addition, emmert had an axe to grind with UConn, and Goodell wanted to crush the pats because Kraft said that if the NFL doesn't find definitive evidence against the pats, then he wants an apology from the NFL and Goodell. There wasn't any sort of conclusive evidence, but some how the NFL comes to a conclusion that allows them and Goodell to accomplish their goals. All of these things are true. Whether you believe brady ordered the balls to be deflated or not is up to you. No one knows the truth. However, there's no question that there wasn't conclusive evidence. And there's no question that the pats and Uconn situation mirror each other in many ways.

"Truths" sorry but your entire post was your opinions.

 

[superjohn]

ok. let me rephrase.

In the context of the debate you will see that I am correct.

The debate was whether or not UCONN and the patriots are the same type of situation. In other words, you would have to be very biased to say uconn was screwed, but the patriots were not. You can say either UConn and the patriots deserved what they got or that both got screwed. each case VERY closely mirrors each other. That was my main point. What I did not take into account is the person who doesn't believe the NFL or NCAA are corrupt. Most believe they are corrupt and make stupid illogical decisions. You would have to be insanely biased to say that only one team was screwed and not the other. However, a huge percent of those people who meet that criteria are on this board.

Again, this is just your opinion. I don't think the UConn situation and the Patriots situation are at all similar.

 

[Sportsman5]

Again, this is just your opinion. I don't think the UConn situation and the Patriots situation are at all similar.

I will bet my life you are a new york sports fan

 

[zyron]

The NFL finally got it right with Tom Brady's 4 game suspension.

 

[superjohn]

I will bet my life you are a new york sports fan

I am, I've stated that many times here. What on earth does that have to do with me thinking the UConn situation and Patriots situation are not at all alike?

 

[PcketknfNiels]

My post at the bottom of the previous page explains all that needs to be said. Really no need to argue anything beyond that.

 

[zyron]

My post at the bottom of the previous page explains all that needs to be said. Really no need to argue anything beyond that.

The situations are 100% different and have been talked about many times.

 

[johnhuskies95]

The situations are 100% different and have been talked about many times.

Pats fans are on their final (far-fetched) argument: false equivalence. Eventually they'll give in, but they're a stubborn bunch.

 

[8893]

"Everybody's innocent in here. Didn't you know that?"

 

[CL82]

I'm guessing that phrasing had more to do with legalese than anything else. I don't know why people are getting hung up on that.

Um because words mean things?

 

[uconngb]

I am, I've stated that many times here. What on earth does that have to do with me thinking the UConn situation and Patriots situation are not at all alike?

You are so missing the point, it's comical. I never denied that the Pats "cheated"" if that's what you want to call it. All I said is that if you believe this somehow "taints" the Patriots legacy, then you must admit that UConn's legacy must also be tainted because of JC's "cheating". If you agree w that, then I have no problem with your criticism of the Pats. If you don't, then you're just a hypocrite living in a glass house throwing stones. Neither of the so called "offenses" ever determined the outcome of one single game, never mind the 4 championships each team owns. So which is it??

 

[zyron]

Neither of the so called "offenses" ever determined the outcome of one single game

How do you know what the Pat's did didn't matter in the outcome of a game? The Colts game wasn't the only game they did it, why did they keep doing it then? I don't know why you keep trying to link this to UConn.

 

[uconngb]

How do you know what the Pat's did didn't matter in the outcome of a game? The Colts game wasn't the only game they did it, why did they keep doing it then? I don't know why you keep trying to link this to UConn.

Give me some evidence of ANY other time they did this?? By the same logic, Calhoun must have over-texted thousands of times, because he did it once. And by the way, the balls were replaced for the second half, which the Pats won, I believe 28-0. The denial and extrapolation by the Pats-haters is unreal here. Keep trying to poke holes, we have 4 Super Bowls in the last 15 years, 3 of which occurred before any "cheating" allegtions wereeer uttered. I frankly don't see how this is any different than JC's "cheating". You can't have it both ways......