Lady Vols - 2012-13

[doggydaddy]

um ok.. i would take Graves any day of the week.

Why? Because she is a Lady Vol? The experts don't think so other than that silly #15 ESPN Ranking.

ASGR - Tuck 4, Graves 8
Bluestart - Tuck 9, Graves 8
MaxPreps - Tuck 1st team, Graves 3rd team

McDonalds game - Tuck 18 points, 3 rebounds - Graves 7 point (2-10), 11 rebounds
WBCA Senior game - Tuck 8 points 5 rebounds - Graves 4 points, 5 rebounds

I think you would find that only the homer of homers would take Graves over Tuck.

 

[BigO]

and the reality is you can't on one hand say moriah's great ranking is accurate... then turn right around and claim graves' rating is not accurate. it's either one way or another.

 

[Stray Cat]

and the reality is you can't on one hand say moriah's great ranking is accurate... then turn right around and claim graves' rating is not accurate. it's either one way or another.

Great point you're right...so if UConn and Tenn play next year, the Huskies will only win by 30 instead of 40! Regardless, UConn is going to continue to OWN the LV's for a long, long time to come...get used to it!

 

[alexrgct]

and the reality is you can't on one hand say moriah's great ranking is accurate... then turn right around and claim graves' rating is not accurate. it's either one way or another.

Except that there's a consensus that Moriah is the #2 prospect across multiple ranking services. It's not just ESPN.

 

[BigO]

Why? Because she is a Lady Vol? The experts don't think so other than that silly #15 ESPN Ranking.

ASGR - Tuck 4, Graves 8
Bluestart - Tuck 9, Graves 8
MaxPreps - Tuck 1st team, Graves 3rd team

McDonalds game - Tuck 18 points, 3 rebounds - Graves 7 point (2-10), 11 rebounds
WBCA Senior game - Tuck 8 points 5 rebounds - Graves 4 points, 5 rebounds

I think you would find that only the homer of homers would take Graves over Tuck.

no offense but all of those numbers are really close and you conveniently, and predictably, discount the one rating system that this board worships on a daily basis (AKA the UCONN media mogul, ESPN) GRAVES #5, TUCK #15 oopsy!

 

[BigO]

Great point you're right...so if UConn and Tenn play next year, the Huskies will only win by 30 instead of 40! Regardless, UConn is going to continue to OWN the LV's for a long, long time to come...get used to it!

thanks again for the meaningful contribution to the conversation.

 

[JS]

the one rating system that this board worships on a daily basis (AKA the UCONN media mogul, ESPN)

You sure have a way about you, Big O.

It's just not a way we're going to go tonight.

On edit: to be more specific, it's not just you. The topic remains viable. But if it's to remain open we need to steer away from thread deterioration and have dropped the necessary hints through a few disappearing posts.

 

[alexrgct]

no offense but all of those numbers are really close and you conveniently, and predictably, discount the one rating system that you this board worships on a daily basis (AKA the UCONN media mogul, ESPN) GRAVES #5, TUCK #15 oopsy!

You'll actually find considerable criticism of HoopGurlz on here. The primary editor of HG got so pissed off last year during an exchange with Boneyarders that he vowed never to post on the site again, and he hasn't. HG is also not remotely based in Connecticut.

HG's justification for the rating of Morgan has been her 2009 injury. They in fact explictly stated she'd be a top 5 prospect without it. That makes no sense to me, but that was in print.

I think Graves is a good fit for Tennessee because she's from the state. Just like Glory Johnson stepped up and defended something that was unique and special about her home state(i.e., the LV program), Graves will come to fight for Tennessee. That being said, Morgan is a very talented player who is going to do great things at UConn when all is said and done.

 

[BigO]

You'll actually find considerable criticism of HoopGurlz on here. The primary editor of HG got so pissed off last year during an exchange with Boneyarders that he vowed never to post on the site again, and he hasn't. HG is also not remotely based in Connecticut.

HG's justification for the rating of Morgan has been her 2009 injury. They in fact explictly stated she'd be a top 5 prospect without it. That makes no sense to me, but that was in print.

I think Graves is a good fit for Tennessee because she's from the state. Just like Glory Johnson stepped up and defended something that was unique and special about her home state(i.e., the LV program), Graves will come to fight for Tennessee. That being said, Morgan is a very talented player who is going to do great things at UConn when all is said and done.

very well said...and to morgan's injury, i would also add that draya carter was a top 5 player before she went down. very special player with one of the highest vertical jumps in WCBB history.

 

[Bayareahusky]

This Graves and Tuck thing back and forth I don't know..... I hope for the Lady Vols that Graves does well. I don't know how they expect that to happen based on Glory's rating (was she #3 in the entire class)..... she was never able to deliver a final 4 appearance..... If Glory couldn't get Tenn to a FF, how will Graves fare? Stricklen was #7 or 8 I think..... she was spectacular sometimes, then didn't show for some games. Was it the coaching staff's failure to develop their stars???? I don't know..... I'd like to see Tenn be successful, I think it is good for WCBB, but as of now I don't see it. Maybe they will do well. Good luck to them.

 

[Scotter]

I think the importance of both size and depth tends to get overestimated. And so does how far teams will fall. Hasn't UConn been showing that for awhile now? The right coach could get Tennessee back to the Elite 8 with that roster. In part due to more clearly defined offensive roles because whoever is coaching doesn't have enough options to muck it up very much. Warlick probably isn't that coach, but if things break right she may anyway even if they have close to double digit losses again along the way.

Warlick can still trot out a starting lineup of entirely McDonald's All-Americans. There aren't 8 other teams in the country that can do that.

Massengale is capable of playing much better than she did as a freshman, particularly shooting the ball. There is a reason UConn recruited her so heavily and a reason she's consistently been the starting point guard for USA Basketball. She had better than a 2/1 assist to turnover ratio, the first Tennessee player to accomplish that was Kara Lawson. The last player to have more assists in a season was Marciniak. I don't think Massengale becomes a superstar, but she can be the foundation of a good team.

Around her you put Simmons and Spani. Two different kinds of wing players with now more defined roles. Burdick slots in fairly decently as a supporting player to fill in the gaps at the 4, which is her makeup. And I anticipate Bashara Graves will be starting at the 5 as a freshman, and I do like what i have seen so far from her. She should be able to rebound and score some as a freshman. Harrison is the backup post and Warlick has three guards to find a 6th man from. I'm sure they hope Carter is recovered enough from her ACL to be that player, but they can make do with Williams as they have in the past if the Elite 8 is the goal.

If they have injuries like they have been having for the last few years they're obviously in deep trouble, but if they stay healthy and can ride their starting lineup they will be relatively okay and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the first Tennessee team in a decade to have more assists than turnovers. In part because there are a few atypical Tennessee players on the roster and in part because they may actually develop a little offensive chemistry by having the same players play significant minutes together even if the offensive coaching isn't great. They'll most likely be a Sweet 16 team, but like Notre Dame I wouldn't be that surprised if they ended up in the Elite 8 because the reality is there are very few teams with their top end talent, and top end talent tends to carry teams pretty far in basketball.

 

[Bayareahusky]

In fact, talking about Tuck, she was #1 in her class 3 or 4 yrs ago before the injury. Hopefully the injury is well in the rear view mirror.

 

[BigO]

This Graves and Tuck thing back and forth I don't know..... I hope for the Lady Vols that Graves does well. I don't know how they expect that to happen based on Glory's rating (was she #3 in the entire class)..... she was never able to deliver a final 4 appearance..... If Glory couldn't get Tenn to a FF, how will Graves fare? Stricklen was #7 or 8 I think..... she was spectacular sometimes, then didn't show for some games. Was it the coaching staff's failure to develop their stars???? I don't know..... I'd like to see Tenn be successful, I think it is good for WCBB, but as of now I don't see it. Maybe they will do well. Good luck to them.

whoa whoa....don't leave out the years of many, many injuries to that group. not an excuse but they do matter and we have been swamped with odd injuries for the last 4 years. glory is one person.

 

[BigO]

I think the importance of both size and depth tends to get overestimated. And so does how far teams will fall. Hasn't UConn been showing that for awhile now? The right coach could get Tennessee back to the Elite 8 with that roster. In part due to more clearly defined offensive roles because whoever is coaching doesn't have enough options to muck it up very much. Warlick probably isn't that coach, but if things break right she may anyway even if they have close to double digit losses again along the way.

Warlick can still trot out a starting lineup of entirely McDonald's All-Americans. There aren't 8 other teams in the country that can do that.

Massengale is capable of playing much better than she did as a freshman, particularly shooting the ball. There is a reason UConn recruited her so heavily and a reason she's consistently been the starting point guard for USA Basketball. She had better than a 2/1 assist to turnover ratio, the first Tennessee player to accomplish that was Kara Lawson. The last player to have more assists in a season was Marciniak. I don't think Massengale becomes a superstar, but she can be the foundation of a good team.

Around her you put Simmons and Spani. Two different kinds of wing players with now more defined roles. Burdick slots in fairly decently as a supporting player to fill in the gaps at the 4, which is her makeup. And I anticipate Bashara Graves will be starting at the 5 as a freshman, and I do like what i have seen so far from her. She should be able to rebound and score some as a freshman. Harrison is the backup post and Warlick has three guards to find a 6th man from. I'm sure they hope Carter is recovered enough from her ACL to be that player, but they can make do with Williams as they have in the past if the Elite 8 is the goal.

If they have injuries like they have been having for the last few years they're obviously in deep trouble, but if they stay healthy and can ride their starting lineup they will be relatively okay and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the first Tennessee team in a decade to have more assists than turnovers. In part because there are a few atypical Tennessee players on the roster and in part because they may actually develop a little offensive chemistry by having the same players play significant minutes together even if the offensive coaching isn't great. They'll most likely be a Sweet 16 team, but like Notre Dame I wouldn't be that surprised if they ended up in the Elite 8 because the reality is there are very few teams with their top end talent, and top end talent tends to carry teams pretty far in basketball.

best post all night!

 

[Bayareahusky]

With Tenn next year, I can't help but believe that degree of success depends on Simmons..... she is so dynamic..... if she can be reined in discipline wise (cut down on the run and gun, get teammates involved), she can carry the team on her back in spurts anyway. An exciting mover of the rock, and good shooter as well.

 

[BigO]

With Tenn next year, I can't help but believe that degree of success depends on Simmons..... she is so dynamic..... if she can be reined in discipline wise (cut down on the run and gun, get teammates involved), she can carry the team on her back in spurts anyway. An exciting mover of the rock, and good shooter as well.

simmons is KEY. when she is on. she is ON! just need her to play defense more or she will not play ahead of williams or carter at 2 spot...both of them are stoppers. carter may be the best defender we have had on perimeter in years.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Big O, I actually am a Glory fan...... I think yes, you have had injuries, but team (IMHO) had FAR too much depth to use overall injuries as an excuse. That whole senior class should have been exemplary for rest of team. You are absolutely right about Glory..... I rarely saw her do anything but bust her ass for her team.

 

[BigO]

Big O, I actually am a Glory fan...... I think yes, you have had injuries, but team (IMHO) had FAR too much depth to use overall injuries as an excuse. That whole senior class should have been exemplary for rest of team. You are absolutely right about Glory..... I rarely saw her do anything but bust her ass for her team.

i agree. too many passive types on the floor at once. this last class was my fav, even without a FF appearance. however, i think the other girls are prob really ready to put the past in the past and to get out of the seniors' shadows

 

[Bayareahusky]

With Simmons, others actually may be better, but she has so much heart..... it mystified me this past year the way coaching staff played her..... in, then out, she hit some baskets, then sat down. .... at least that is the way it was in the 5 or 6 TN games I saw

 

[Bayareahusky]

I am interested to see how your 3 frosh will develop..... it is always a crapshoot with the transition from HS AA status to college..... some blossom, some collapse.... hopefully for you guys the coaching staff stability (as of today at least) will portend good things looking forward and give the newbies needed confidence.

 

[BigO]

With Simmons, others actually may be better, but she has so much heart..... it mystified me this past year the way coaching staff played her..... in, then out, she hit some baskets, then sat down. .... at least that is the way it was in the 5 or 6 TN games I saw

i am with you....simmons sat so much in games that she should have been in....no excuse for that. the substitutions were HORRENDOUS last year. glad the committee coaching thing lasted one year....and we still managed elite 8 and sec tourney champ---could have been a hell of a lot worse

 

[Tonyc]

IMO Holly has her back up againest a wall. Micki left, players have graduated, recruits have gone elsewhere. Pat for all intensive purposes is out of the picture, and Holly is on her own. How will this play out. Well right now you have a very good point guard who has a bunch of good team mates a couple of which play alot of one on one. Hollys job is to build a disiplined team, that plays as a unit. She will play in Pats shaddow with Pat still in the picture out of respect and honor which Pat deserves. This is a rebuilding process for TN. TN will not be a top 10 team for quite sometime. Holly will have to focus on what she needs to do to build her team. She will need good expereinced asst coaches who can recruit, teach train and develop these kids. Hollys tuffest job is to build her own mystic, and get the fans behind her. If she can do that she will be successful. This season she will be living and coaching in Pats shaddow. It is very apparent to me with the names that were mentioned as poosible head coaches at TN that for what ever reasons they are not there. Now its up to Holly. She needs to start from the ground floor and rebuild and not worry about NCs, those are unrealistic right now. She needs to build a team and everything else will happen.

 

[BigO]

I am interested to see how your 3 frosh will develop..... it is always a crapshoot with the transition from HS AA status to college..... some blossom, some collapse.... hopefully for you guys the coaching staff stability (as of today at least) will portend good things looking forward and give the newbies needed confidence.

i know a lot of attention has went to head coach, but we now have 2 assistant spots open and those are so so important. we need a young assistant who can really be a player contact.

 

[BigO]

IMO Holly has her back up againest a wall. Micki left, players have graduated, recruits have gone elsewhere. Pat for all intensive purposes is out of the picture, and Holly is on her own. How will this play out. Well right now you have a very good point guard who has a bunch of good team mates a couple of which play alot of one on one. Hollys job is to build a disiplined team, that plays as a unit. She will play in Pats shaddow with Pat still in the picture out of respect and honor which Pat deserves. This is a rebuilding process for TN. TN will not be a top 10 team for quite sometime. Holly will have to focus on what she needs to do to build her team. She will need good expereinced asst coaches who can recruit, teach train and develop these kids. Hollys tuffest job is to build her own mystic, and get the fans behind her. If she can do that she will be successful. This season she will be living and coaching in Pats shaddow. It is very apparent to me with the names that were mentioned as poosible head coaches at TN that for what ever reasons they are not there. Now its up to Holly. She needs to start from the ground floor and rebuild and not worry about NCs, those are unrealistic right now. She needs to build a team and everything else will happen.

i agree with some of that...but if texas AM can win a NC anyone can.... and i totally disagree about us not being a top 10 team...i keep hearing that on here for some reason and really don't understand. it's not like our seniors were knocking peoples' socks off last season, excluding glory. KY will be good but we will def be better than most teams. we will still end up being a 2 or top 3 seed next year

 

[VAUConnFan]

Nice thread.

I will concur with wbbfan1 that Tennessee will end next season no worse than 15 for no other reason that there are no more than 14 teams out there to push them lower. I wish them well for the sake of the game. Can we pretty much agree that WCBB would be healthier if the old powers like La Tech and Old Dominion were still strong? Does it not make for great story lines when the traditional basketball powers like Kentucky, Duke, and North Carolina field good women's teams? The game needs more good teams, not fewer. How many must-see women's games are on UConn's schedule next year. How many must see WCBB games overall? We need more. And we need them to be competitive. We may not want them to be too competitive what with nerves and all, but the casual fan is not going to stay tuned to a blowout.

 

[doggydaddy]

i agree with some of that...but if texas AM can win a NC anyone can.... and i totally disagree about us not being a top 10 team...i keep hearing that on here for some reason and really don't understand. it's not like our seniors were knocking peoples' socks off last season, excluding glory. KY will be good but we will def be better than most teams. we will still end up being a 2 or top 3 seed next year

You are counting on a lot of players that haven't done it yet. Simmons, your proclaimed key to the season, has not shown she can lead this team. Her shot selection has been abysmal and just got worse as the season progressed. She will shoot you out of more games than she will win for you.

Your seniors produced 50% of your offense and rebounding it was even more. You are so quick to dismiss them and to think it is so easy for new players to make up for their graduation is wishful thinking, IMO.

 

[doggydaddy]

Nice thread.

I will concur with wbbfan1 that Tennessee will end next season no worse than 15 for no other reason that there are no more than 14 teams out there to push them lower. I wish them well for the sake of the game. Can we pretty much agree that WCBB would be healthier if the old powers like La Tech and Old Dominion were still strong? Does it not make for great story lines when the traditional basketball powers like Kentucky, Duke, and North Carolina field good women's teams? The game needs more good teams, not fewer. How many must-see women's games are on UConn's schedule next year. How many must see WCBB games overall? We need more. And we need them to be competitive. We may not want them to be too competitive what with nerves and all, but the casual fan is not going to stay tuned to a blowout.

I would love for all those teams to be good. I wouldn't mind if Tennessee wasn't.

 

[doggydaddy]

simmons is KEY. when she is on. she is ON! just need her to play defense more or she will not play ahead of williams or carter at 2 spot...both of them are stoppers. carter may be the best defender we have had on perimeter in years.

How often was she on and why do you think she will be on more often next year?

 

[BigO]

Nice thread.

I will concur with wbbfan1 that Tennessee will end next season no worse than 15 for no other reason that there are no more than 14 teams out there to push them lower. I wish them well for the sake of the game. Can we pretty much agree that WCBB would be healthier if the old powers like La Tech and Old Dominion were still strong? Does it not make for great story lines when the traditional basketball powers like Kentucky, Duke, and North Carolina field good women's teams? The game needs more good teams, not fewer. How many must-see women's games are on UConn's schedule next year. How many must see WCBB games overall? We need more. And we need them to be competitive. We may not want them to be too competitive what with nerves and all, but the casual fan is not going to stay tuned to a blowout.

nice post. i agree and unlike some of your fellow fans, i think UCONN being a great team is good for the game. not threatening at all to TN's history.

night all

 

[alexrgct]

I think the importance of both size and depth tends to get overestimated. And so does how far teams will fall. Hasn't UConn been showing that for awhile now? The right coach could get Tennessee back to the Elite 8 with that roster. In part due to more clearly defined offensive roles because whoever is coaching doesn't have enough options to muck it up very much. Warlick probably isn't that coach, but if things break right she may anyway even if they have close to double digit losses again along the way.

Warlick can still trot out a starting lineup of entirely McDonald's All-Americans. There aren't 8 other teams in the country that can do that.

Massengale is capable of playing much better than she did as a freshman, particularly shooting the ball. There is a reason UConn recruited her so heavily and a reason she's consistently been the starting point guard for USA Basketball. She had better than a 2/1 assist to turnover ratio, the first Tennessee player to accomplish that was Kara Lawson. The last player to have more assists in a season was Marciniak. I don't think Massengale becomes a superstar, but she can be the foundation of a good team.

Around her you put Simmons and Spani. Two different kinds of wing players with now more defined roles. Burdick slots in fairly decently as a supporting player to fill in the gaps at the 4, which is her makeup. And I anticipate Bashara Graves will be starting at the 5 as a freshman, and I do like what i have seen so far from her. She should be able to rebound and score some as a freshman. Harrison is the backup post and Warlick has three guards to find a 6th man from. I'm sure they hope Carter is recovered enough from her ACL to be that player, but they can make do with Williams as they have in the past if the Elite 8 is the goal.

If they have injuries like they have been having for the last few years they're obviously in deep trouble, but if they stay healthy and can ride their starting lineup they will be relatively okay and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the first Tennessee team in a decade to have more assists than turnovers. In part because there are a few atypical Tennessee players on the roster and in part because they may actually develop a little offensive chemistry by having the same players play significant minutes together even if the offensive coaching isn't great. They'll most likely be a Sweet 16 team, but like Notre Dame I wouldn't be that surprised if they ended up in the Elite 8 because the reality is there are very few teams with their top end talent, and top end talent tends to carry teams pretty far in basketball.

Depth is overrated if you have a really good group of kids in your short rotation. Tennessee will have seven kids that include no top-end talent that has proven much of anything at the college level. If they had Candace Parker? Sure, the depth issue isn't important. But when the best thing you can say about these kids is that they were high school AAs, that's not a ringing endorsement. Can Massengale generate more of her own offense when she has to? Can Burdick's offensive game develop significantly? Can Graves come in and have an immediate impact? Can Spani get back in shape and locked in for her senior campaign? Can Simmons be more consistent while maintaining her intensity and competitiveness? Can Williams be something more than adequate? Can Harrison be productive with increased minutes? When there are legitimate questions around each player on a short rotation with no anchor like Parker or Maya, that's where depth is a concern. The more players you have, the greater a chance you have that enough questions can be answered positively to field a good team.

Tennessee had a team full of high school AAs this year with actual college bona fides on top of it (league POY honors, college AA recognition, etc.). And they still lost games to teams like Arkansas, South Carolina, Virginia, and Vanderbilt. A little less talent, fewer matchup problems created by players like Glory, Stricklen, and Baugh, and that could mean more losses. I agree with VowelGuy's assessment that in a couple years, when the six underclassmen are upperclassmen, this could be a pretty stout team, but on a team with six freshmen and sophomores out of nine players, other teams' experience and chemistry can easily trump talent.