Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[noeynox]

Anyone who follows MBB at all, even casually, knows the strength of the Big East. No one back then (or now) know what conference Boise or Tulane were/are in.

The strength of BE basketball comes down to UConn and Nova. The rest are inconsequential.

 

[CL82]

Yeah. But that money won’t be there, because your premise is that you are hoping we will be included based on the fact that we won a championship recently. As if that is some sort of sacred discriminator. If we have learned anything, we know that nothing is sacred in this business.

That is why I think your argument hinges on hope

Maybe, but your original claim was that there was no money available to pay us. You do understand that your belief that no one cares about national championships is something different, right?

#movinggoalposts

 

[ZooCougar]

We just watched Marquette smack down Kansas. Any basketball system without the Big East is fraudulent. It’s that simple.

Or they just don’t care and want to eliminate the competition.

 

[ZooCougar]

Maybe, but your original claim was that there was no money available to pay us. You do understand that your belief that no one cares about national championships is something different, right?

#movinggoalposts

That’s not what moving the goal posts is.

Your whole argument is based on an assumption I don’t agree with.

 

[ZooCougar]

Now we have the "A5?!" wtf

I've we've learned anything, and shame on us UConn fans if we haven't learned anything, it's that in CR basketball doesn't even amount to:

Sad but true.

 

[Drew]

Amazing that people are somehow still confusing “league with some good basketball teams” with “leagues with written legislative power in NCAA bylaws that make all the money”. If you can’t see the difference (it has NOTHING to do with on field competition results), I don’t know what to tell you other than sorry for your future shock at what happens.

 

[ScottVib]

We just watched Marquette smack down Kansas. Any basketball system without the Big East is fraudulent. It’s that simple.

Realignment has never been about quality/deserving to be "in the club." It's been about what do you do for us financially. UConn's exclusion to this point should help demonstrate the point... basketball success doesn't matter and it's not about being "fraudulent" or being "credible." Similarly, you could've argued a football system without Boise in the early 2000s was fraudulent & how'd that work out for the Broncos?

People clutching to the argument that the Big East is too good to leave out, have missed the point Lew Perkins was trying to make when he first proposed upgrading the football program. It was needed to protect basketball, unfortunately they started too late and cut too many corners when realignment got hot. They continue to cut corners.. and the failure to develop football properly may ultimately doom basketball to a lower level of competition (unless UConn can find some life-raft).

Outside of UConn/Villanova the Big East is just a collection of schools under a decent Brand name. If you replace Butler with Dayton and there is no change with the value of the Big East (among networks, UConn fans may care but that an $8 will get you a Latte at Starbucks); replace Seton Hall with St. Bonaventure; Marquette with Loyola; Creighton with Rice and there is no change to the financial value of the Big East. It's value is driven by UConn, Villanova and the Big East name. The other schools are between "airable when they're good/ranked," "worth airing only when they play UConn/Nova" and "programming filler, tagged to the Big East name."

 

[UConnTrumbull]

Amazing that people are somehow still confusing “league with some good basketball teams” with “leagues with written legislative power in NCAA bylaws that make all the money”. If you can’t see the difference (it has NOTHING to do with on field competition results), I don’t know what to tell you other than sorry for your future shock at what happens.

I don’t think anyone is ignoring this. It’s been a realistic scenario for a decade now which is why I was pro-Big 12. The only point I am making (and this is solely for Basketball) is a Basketball tournament without the Big East is fraudulent. Can it happen?, sure it can. But I don’t think the public will tune in to March Madness of P4/5 whatever the heck it is.

 

[ScottVib]

I don’t think anyone is ignoring this. It’s been a realistic scenario for a decade now which is why I was pro-Big 12. The only point I am making (and this is solely for Basketball) is a Basketball tournament without the Big East is fraudulent. Can it happen?, sure it can. But I don’t think the public will tune in to March Madness of P4/5 whatever the heck it is.

After the first weekend where the event is the story more than the matchups... the games with non-power teams are ratings killers. The public actively tunes out of the games without P4/5 (after the first weekend). If you can built the event up enough in the first weekend, by the second weekend, you're looking at the standard best case scenario for ratings with all power schools.

 

[ZooCougar]

I don’t think anyone is ignoring this. It’s been a realistic scenario for a decade now which is why I was pro-Big 12. The only point I am making (and this is solely for Basketball) is a Basketball tournament without the Big East is fraudulent. Can it happen?, sure it can. But I don’t think the public will tune in to March Madness of P4/5 whatever the heck it is.

Oh, tons of people are ignoring this here.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Realignment has never been about quality/deserving to be "in the club." It's been about what do you do for us financially. UConn's exclusion to this point should help demonstrate the point... basketball success doesn't matter and it's not about being "fraudulent" or being "credible." Similarly, you could've argued a football system without Boise in the early 2000s was fraudulent & how'd that work out for the Broncos?

People clutching to the argument that the Big East is too good to leave out, have missed the point Lew Perkins was trying to make when he first proposed upgrading the football program. It was needed to protect basketball, unfortunately they started too late and cut too many corners when realignment got hot. They continue to cut corners.. and the failure to develop football properly may ultimately doom basketball to a lower level of competition (unless UConn can find some life-raft).

Outside of UConn/Villanova the Big East is just a collection of schools under a decent Brand name. If you replace Butler with Dayton and there is no change with the value of the Big East (among networks, UConn fans may care but that an $8 will get you a Latte at Starbucks); replace Seton Hall with St. Bonaventure; Marquette with Loyola; Creighton with Rice and there is no change to the financial value of the Big East. It's value is driven by UConn, Villanova and the Big East name. The other schools are between "airable when they're good/ranked," "worth airing only when they play UConn/Nova" and "programming filler, tagged to the Big East name."

Yes

 

[CL82]

That’s not what moving the goal posts is.

Your whole argument is based on an assumption I don’t agree with.

You asked "where would the money come from" to pay Connecticut to join a basketball autonomy group. Once it I explained that March Madness is the cash cow that runs the entire NCAA generating roughly $1,000,000,000 a year, you moved on to a different question. And if it was answered, you would move onto a different one. That's your modus operandi here. It's basically what a toddler does. It's fine. You be you.

#movingthegoalposts

 

[Drew]

I don’t think anyone is ignoring this. It’s been a realistic scenario for a decade now which is why I was pro-Big 12. The only point I am making (and this is solely for Basketball) is a Basketball tournament without the Big East is fraudulent. Can it happen?, sure it can. But I don’t think the public will tune in to March Madness of P4/5 whatever the heck it is.

First off- I disagree with this. The overwhelming majority of college sports fans are fans of like 25 schools. If those schools are playing games (or if their rivals or other similar teams are playing), they’re tuning in

Second, the article at hand didn’t necessarily say they’d stop playing the other teams not in the A5 (soon to be A4), it just seems to me like they want to reconfigure the NCAA Tournament to be like the CFP. What does that wind up meaning? Probably like 10 auto bids for conference champions and the rest are at larges with like 90% of the money generated going to the A4 automatically and 10% split between non-A4 leagues with the split being determined by how far you get in the tournament. That’s probably what will happen.

 

[Rdkid]

First off- I disagree with this. The overwhelming majority of college sports fans are fans of like 25 schools. If those schools are playing games (or if their rivals or other similar teams are playing), they’re tuning in

Second, the article at hand didn’t necessarily say they’d stop playing the other teams not in the A5 (soon to be A4), it just seems to me like they want to reconfigure the NCAA Tournament to be like the CFP. What does that wind up meaning? Probably like 10 auto bids for conference champions and the rest are at larges with like 90% of the money generated going to the A4 automatically and 10% split between non-A4 leagues with the split being determined by how far you get in the tournament. That’s probably what will happen.

The great football schools and conferences are great because they and their fanbases live and breathe the sport. You can’t just slap a school name on the front of a basketball jersey and expect their fans to care the same - especially as they are asked to give more and more money to the football program. A bunch of P5 schools have zero basketball fanbase or tradition and never will (what the most negative folks say about UConn fb) That will not sustain a viable 30 game season or what the public has proven they love - a 64-team one and done tourney. That means less money. Basketball is different. The great split will lead to hard football choices and the sport will likely split into a professional class. Professional college bb with a P4 split has no legs.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

I'm thinking the Big East would be part of any breakaway if it included basketball. Villanova and UConn have won 30% of the National Championships in the past 25 years.

They’re not breaking away to drag DePaul and butler with them.

 

[ZooCougar]

This may not be key. But it should be.

https://x.com/uconnsn/status/1727063064443588763?s=46

 

[ZooCougar]

You asked "where would the money come from" to pay Connecticut to join a basketball autonomy group. Once it I explained that March Madness is the cash cow that runs the entire NCAA generating roughly $1,000,000,000 a year, you moved on to a different question. And if it was answered, you would move onto a different one. That's your modus operandi here. It's basically what a toddler does. It's fine. You be you.

#movingthegoalposts

You have shown where the money comes from if we live in alternate fantasy world.

Are you Robert Jordan?

 

[noeynox]

Amazing that people are somehow still confusing “league with some good basketball teams” with “leagues with written legislative power in NCAA bylaws that make all the money”. If you can’t see the difference (it has NOTHING to do with on field competition results), I don’t know what to tell you other than sorry for your future shock at what happens.

Those same people wanted UConn to CHOOSE the Big East over the Big 12 IF there was a choice to make. Therefore, those people like to pretend the Big East is something it is not. Despite their success, they're not an autonomy 5 conference. They're as powerless any other G5 league.

 

[noeynox]

I don’t think anyone is ignoring this. It’s been a realistic scenario for a decade now which is why I was pro-Big 12. The only point I am making (and this is solely for Basketball) is a Basketball tournament without the Big East is fraudulent. Can it happen?, sure it can. But I don’t think the public will tune in to March Madness of P4/5 whatever the heck it is.

No one cares about the Big East schools not named UConn/Nova. Marquette and Creighton may be good now but those team successes tend to be cyclical or related to the head coach like Wichita State a few years back. No one is going to call the entire tournament "fraudulent" cause UConn and Nova got shafted. It will simply be seen as a consequence of change.

 

[ZooCougar]

No one cares about the Big East schools not named UConn/Nova. Marquette and Creighton may be good now but those team successes tend to be cyclical or related to the head coach like Wichita State a few years back. No one is going to call the entire tournament "fraudulent" cause UConn and Nova got shafted. It will simply be seen as a consequence of change.

Those fanbases are not small and insubstantial but it doesn’t matter. The A4 will do it if that is what they want.

The only people that will cry foul are said fanbases and a few deep inside college basketball media types, but everyone else will just shrug.

This is why it was so important to follow through with what Lew Perkins envisioned. The reckoning is coming and I give the Big East maybe a 50/50 shot.

 

[Drew]

Those fanbases are not small and insubstantial but it doesn’t matter. The A4 will do it if that is what they want.

The only people that will cry foul are said fanbases and a few deep inside college basketball media types, but everyone else will just shrug.

This is why it was so important to follow through with what Lew Perkins envisioned. The reckoning is coming and I give the Big East maybe a 50/50 shot.

The fanbases are absolutely small and inconsequential compared to the teams that matter. Marquette probably has 1/10th (at best) of the fanbase of Wisconsin. Hell, most Marquette fans probably also cheer for Wisconsin football.

I’m a Nebraska fan by birth and still am- there’s a reason “Jayskers” exist. Maybe you went to Creighton or live in Omaha and like going to games but almost all of those people are also fans of NU. True Creighton only fans compared to NU is probably 1/25th the size of the fanbase.

I do agree with your second point- If these small privates went off the face of the Earth absolutely nobody would bat an eye. The public and general sports media has already held a funeral for and buried the Big East - hell ESPN made a damn documentary about it.

Nobody is saying there aren’t a few good basketball teams in the league. But to pretend like the tournament is somehow illegitimate if Providence and Xavier don’t have a chance to win it all is just silly and blind to all reality of who actually matters in college sports

 

[CL82]

You have shown where the money comes from if we live in alternate fantasy world.

Are you Robert Jordan?

Lol, no, I just responded to your question seriously, as if you actually wanted an answer. A mistake increasingly fewer of us are making.

To be perfectly honest, I'm starting to wonder whether you've had some kind of medical event or something, because it seems like you're involved in one after another of these odd series of posts, where you jump from non sequitur, to red herring, to strawman arguments in a weird meandering manner. It's very similar to people who have age related dementia. I'm not saying that you do, of course, I'm just noting the similarity.

My best guess is that for whatever reason you've decided that you want to be a troll on The Boneyard. I feel as if Nelson kind of has that niche locked down, but again, you be you. It's all good.

 

[Drew]

The great football schools and conferences are great because they and their fanbases live and breathe the sport. You can’t just slap a school name on the front of a basketball jersey and expect their fans to care the same - especially as they are asked to give more and more money to the football program. A bunch of P5 schools have zero basketball fanbase or tradition and never will (what the most negative folks say about UConn fb) That will not sustain a viable 30 game season or what the public has proven they love - a 64-team one and done tourney. That means less money. Basketball is different. The great split will lead to hard football choices and the sport will likely split into a professional class. Professional college bb with a P4 split has no legs.

What’s funny about this is if you go look at Big Ten and SEC hoops TV ratings to the Big East, those leagues blow the BE out of the water.

Thats the entire point. Those teams have such large fanbases that even if 5% of them care about hoops it means more than if 80% of Marquette fans do.

You can’t hold a basketball tournament without Kansas or Kentucky. You can absolutely do it without Providence and Butler. Hell, we already do it almost every year as is.

 

[CL82]

What’s funny about this is if you go look at Big Ten and SEC hoops TV ratings to the Big East, those leagues blow the BE out of the water.

Thats the entire point. Those teams have such large fanbases that even if 5% of them care about hoops it means more than if 80% of Marquette fans do.

You can’t hold a basketball tournament without Kansas or Kentucky. You can absolutely do it without Providence and Butler. Hell, we already do it almost every year as is.

In order to do an apples to apples comparison I think you have to equalize the networks at the games are played on. Clearly, games on FS1, and especially FS2, are going to have lower ratings than games on ESPN, which intern will have lower ratings than games on the broadcast networks. In order to evaluate a teams ability to draw eyeballs you have to adjust for the different media contracts.

 

[ZooCougar]

The fanbases are absolutely small and inconsequential compared to the teams that matter. Marquette probably has 1/10th (at best) of the fanbase of Wisconsin. Hell, most Marquette fans probably also cheer for Wisconsin football.

I’m a Nebraska fan by birth and still am- there’s a reason “Jayskers” exist. Maybe you went to Creighton or live in Omaha and like going to games but almost all of those people are also fans of NU. True Creighton only fans compared to NU is probably 1/25th the size of the fanbase.

I do agree with your second point- If these small privates went off the face of the Earth absolutely nobody would bat an eye. The public and general sports media has already held a funeral for and buried the Big East - hell ESPN made a damn documentary about it.

Nobody is saying there aren’t a few good basketball teams in the league. But to pretend like the tournament is somehow illegitimate if Providence and Xavier don’t have a chance to win it all is just silly and blind to all reality of who actually matters in college sports

I live in the KC Area now but also notoriously lived in Wisconsin. Marquette for sure is smaller than Wisconsin. But it's definitely a thing and it's not insubstantial. But whatever it is, it's irrelevant.

I am familiar with Creighton. My impression is that it is douchier than BC, but in Omaha.

I am in violent agreement with you that the Big East will get mercilessly tossed aside if that's what they want to do.