Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[ConnHuskBask]

More on the Rutgers move. Some of these additions are going to look terrible pretty soon.

The worst realignment move ever is worse than you thought

Rutgers’ time in the Big Ten, college football's most lucrative conference, has been a competitive and financial nightmare.

theathletic.com

To be fair to SUNJ - they have become one of the better B1G hoop programs the last few years under Pike.

SUNJ is an easy target to dump on, but I don't see Maryland or Nebraska doing much of anything...

 

[CL82]

I’m thinking a lot will change between now and the end of their GOR.
For the life of me I can’t understand what the Big XII is doing - seems like conference suicide. Cincinnati and UCF must have serious buyers remorse.

Even with the loss of Clemson and Florida St, the ACC would be better than the XII branding wise.
If rules change regarding basketball payouts, the ACC could reap a huge profit from that. And if they merged with the BE plus grabbed a few other choice properties they would have enough leverage from a basketball position to opt to leave the NCAA.

What do you feel the big 12 it's done that hurts their brand? The consensus is just the opposite.

 

[aburks41]

I’m thinking a lot will change between now and the end of their GOR.
For the life of me I can’t understand what the Big XII is doing - seems like conference suicide. Cincinnati and UCF must have serious buyers remorse.

Even with the loss of Clemson and Florida St, the ACC would be better than the XII branding wise.
If rules change regarding basketball payouts, the ACC could reap a huge profit from that. And if they merged with the BE plus grabbed a few other choice properties they would have enough leverage from a basketball position to opt to leave the NCAA.

There will be a serious game of chicken when the ACC contract runs out. FSU and Clemson will bolt. The rest of the teams will be posturing for an SEC or Big 10 invite, while also trying to poach some Big 12 brands like KU and WVU while at the same time exploring ditching the ACC to join the Big 12.

The media will get played like a fiddle just like we saw with the Pac 12 teams at the last moment sticking together only for it to fall apart in the 11th hour. I think it comes down to what happens to UNC and UVA. If they stick around, I think the ACC would have a better chance at poaching the Big 12. If they leave, I think you see a mad dash from Louisville, Pitt, NC State, etc to try to get into the Big 12.

 

[Punkbo]

I’m enjoying the discourse with regards to other conferences, but for UConn, the world is our oyster. We have no GOR to worry about and I believe our football contract with CBS Sports Network expires at the end of this season. There’s no reason to hate on other universities. Let’s be proactive and negotiate something great for our own university. We have a great brand which is worth lots of money. Let’s capitalize on the opportunity.

 

[djct1999]

There can be taxable components of non-taxed entities.

Are they currently being taxed?

 

[Blades]

Worth a read…

Interesting line by the former "BE fearless leader" but easy to figure out especially with zero exit fees ( from AP). While Uconn and SD St have to pay $30 mil + to get out of much worst TV deals.

“Once USC and UCLA went to the Big Ten (last year), I knew this was all going to happen,” former Big East Commissioner Mike Tranghese said. “We now have total chaos.” The TV networks have less money to go around, and have come to realize that paying for Washington State and Oregon State doesn’t make sense when all they really want is Washington and Oregon."

"The move would push the Big Ten to 18 schools. Starting in 2024, that will include a western wing of USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington. None of those schools is required to pay an exit fee because of the Pac-12's expiring television deal."

 

[huskymedic]

The article is spot on. People think you’re crazy when you suggest Vandy, Northwestern can’t be kicked out of the healthy P2. It’s gonna happen. Might as well just get on with it and stop the charade that Arizona State matters.

Shortcut if needed <<

 

[NH Husky]

What do you feel the big 12 it's done that hurts their brand? The consensus is just the opposite.

Not so much as hurting it but they failed to help it. They had the chance to dominate hoops. And football - yeah Utah is real good now but how long will they be able to sustain that without access to Cal talent? Neon at CO will flop or bolt.
I don’t know if goku is real or not but if he reflects anything of KU’s fan base they are not happy.
Also, how long until technology and stretched to thin start putting pressure ESPN to downsize or go bankrupt. It would start with dropping nonprofitable entities.

 

[Waquoit]

Nah, he’s a a dick and a fraud.

Who the hell are you?

 

[huskymedic]

 

[CL82]

Not so much as hurting it but they failed to help it. They had the chance to dominate hoops. And football - yeah Utah is real good now but how long will they be able to sustain that without access to Cal talent? Neon at CO will flop or bolt.
I don’t know if goku is real or not but if he reflects anything of KU’s fan base they are not happy.
Also, how long until technology and stretched to thin start putting pressure ESPN to downsize or go bankrupt. It would start with dropping nonprofitable entities.

Right now the perception is P5 > G5. Like it or not, regardless of athletic budget or the success of our sports teams, we are "G5" and therefore perceived as inferior. The four corners school made more geographic sense, if not strategic sense. They were a familiar choice by people who don't understand our program, our fan base, our history and our potential. I understand the decision, even if I don't agree with it.

I'm not sure that they "hurt their brand" so much as missed on an opportunity to maximize it.

 

[businesslawyer]

And maintain their not for profit tax status? Nil can be the start. Who says the athletes don’t want to be treated like pros?

Colleges athletics is a charade that when the bubble bursts, and it will, their greed now will leave a path of destruction.

Huh? Treating athletes like pros has zip to do with the non-profit status of the school. My temple pays the rabbi and office staff. That doesn't affect its status as a non-profit corporation. The criteria relate to whether shareholders own the profits and the public good purpose of the entity. Not who the entity pays or how much they pay them.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

We have yet to see the knock-on consequences of all of this consolidation in college sports, but I fear it will be very damaging. The big games will always draw eyeballs, but very easy to see a world in which two super conferences lead to some of these programs that have historically had some success, becoming perennially middling clubs or doormats. Hard to keep your fanbase engaged and could lead to a lot more apathy both from the teams that got left by the wayside and the teams that are at the bottom of 20-school conferences.

 

[businesslawyer]

There can be taxable components of non-taxed entities.

And if FSU takes huge money from private equity, that is likely to happen.

 

[Storrs South]

We have yet to see the knock-on consequences of all of this consolidation in college sports, but I fear it will be very damaging. The big games will always draw eyeballs, but very easy to see a world in which two super conferences lead to some of these programs that have historically had some success, becoming perennially middling clubs or doormats. Hard to keep your fanbase engaged and could lead to a lot more apathy both from the teams that got left by the wayside and the teams that are at the bottom of 20-school conferences.

We already have seen that. Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville have all become irrelevant in sports where they used to have much success. There will be more casualties.

 

[RioDog]

We have yet to see the knock-on consequences of all of this consolidation in college sports, but I fear it will be very damaging. The big games will always draw eyeballs, but very easy to see a world in which two super conferences lead to some of these programs that have historically had some success, becoming perennially middling clubs or doormats. Hard to keep your fanbase engaged and will lead to a lot more apathy both from the teams that got left by the wayside and the teams that are at the bottom of 20-school conferences.

FIFY

 

[JeepCSC]

We already have seen that. Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville have all become irrelevant in sports where they used to have much success. There will be more casualties.

South Carolina's high water mark was likely in the ACC around 1970. They took a hit going independent, and then the SEC saved them but also they remain on the fringes of the conference.

 

[JMick]

From our POV, the Big XII taking Stanford, Cal, SDSU and Oregon State would be a great thing. That would get them to 20 and leave less landing spots for the remaining ACC members when that conference implodes. It will leave Cinci, WVU and UCF pissed off.

Go Big XII. Take all the non-competitive west coast schools. When the next media contracts come due maybe your east coast schools will say screw this and join up with the remaining ACC schools and then we can join a conference that makes some sense geographically.

 

[UConnJim]

Are they currently being taxed?

It's almost a mute point anyway. How many athletic department actually make money? Maybe 10 to 20 at best and not that much money. When they do show a profit, it's usually through donations and those can be structured differently. And, if you don't want to show a profit in an entity like a university, it would be very easy. Where athletics are taxed is through the income taxes paid by the employees (coaches), social security taxes,... and sales taxes on sales of various things the AD sells.

NIL will be taxed as income to athletes and as of right now it appears NIL donations to collectives will not be tax deductible.

 

[businesslawyer]

From our POV, the Big XII taking Stanford, Cal, SDSU and Oregon State would be a great thing. That would get them to 20 and leave less landing spots for the remaining ACC members when that conference implodes. It will leave Cinci, WVU and UCF pissed off.

Go Big XII. Take all the non-competitive west coast schools. When the next media contracts come due maybe your east coast schools will say screw this and join up with the remaining ACC schools and then we can join a conference that makes some sense geographically.

Isn't the problem with your theory that the more P-4 schools who want to jump to the ACC, the less room they will have for non P-4 schools like us?

There are only going to be so many seats on the merry go round when consolidation continues. The fewer schools that are already on teh merry go round when they start taking seats away has to be to our advantage.

 

[djct1999]

Huh? Treating athletes like pros has zip to do with the non-profit status of the school. My temple pays the rabbi and office staff. That doesn't affect its status as a non-profit corporation. The criteria relate to whether shareholders own the profits and the public good purpose of the entity. Not who the entity pays or how much they pay them.

Point is, some entity is going to attack the model. It will burst.

 

[Urcea]

Who the hell are you?

the anti-GoKU crowd are Very Smart, Unlike You Rubes, and they'll let you know it

 

[DblCrossbar]

We have yet to see the knock-on consequences of all of this consolidation in college sports, but I fear it will be very damaging. The big games will always draw eyeballs, but very easy to see a world in which two super conferences lead to some of these programs that have historically had some success, becoming perennially middling clubs or doormats. Hard to keep your fanbase engaged and could lead to a lot more apathy both from the teams that got left by the wayside and the teams that are at the bottom of 20-school conferences.

Despite championships within MBB and WBB within the purgatory years of the AAC, interest waned with no natural rivals to compete against. The games that mattered were those scheduled out of conference vs former Big East teams. KO did mismanage the program, but there was no juice there and interest waned because of the makeup of the opponents. Regional appeal matters, at least at the gate, and is more humane for the experience of who we still pretend to be “student athletes”.

The money is there now from standard media distribution, but it will not be the case in 10 years when streaming is the dominant form or some whacko ESPN brain implant comes to fruition. It’s not wrong to pursue entry into a P? Conference, but we must recognize it isn’t salvation over even a 20 year timeframe either. Change will be the only constant, history and tradition be damned.

As an aside it would be interesting to trace application numbers to UConn following championship years. Is winning a better bump to the bottom line and prestige of a university that helps academics, or is the conference a better engine to attract better students and research funding, or is it all mutually exclusive. There’s a PHD thesis out there for someone interested at investigating these dynamics and ultimately what success or membership brings to an higher education institution.

 

[NH Husky]

Right now the perception is P5 > G5. Like it or not, regardless of athletic budget or the success of our sports teams, we are "G5" and therefore perceived as inferior. The four corners school made more geographic sense, if not strategic sense. They were a familiar choice by people who don't understand our program, our fan base, our history and our potential. I understand the decision, even if I don't agree with it.

I'm not sure that they "hurt their brand" so much as missed on an opportunity to maximize it.

I think we’re close to the same page.
If B1G and SEC keep going the way they are, the gap between P2 and rest will grow until they break away or a separate division is created. And the cream of the crop of this division will further try to separate themselves from the lower schools. Increasingly fan bases will be disgruntled by not winning - Nebraska, Missouri, Rutgers, Maryland. People always mention money, but throwing more money at others who have more money than you becomes futile and won’t produce wins.

Plus, there will be a huge number of sports fans of non P2 schools that will crave content. Creating a level below P2 (G5-8). That level below may give up on the whole conference GOR notion and develop their own revenue streams tied into new a technology. And with scheduling partnerships with schools of similar cultures. Just like the old conferences.

So would the likes of UNC and Virginia move their sports to a P2 only to lose their fan base. Not to mention in spite of revenue, how many do not make a profit? Also, what’s more important to the fan base? Winning or AD profitability?

 

[JMick]

Isn't the problem with your theory that the more P-4 schools who want to jump to the ACC, the less room they will have for non P-4 schools like us?

There are only going to be so many seats on the merry go round when consolidation continues. The fewer schools that are already on teh merry go round when they start taking seats away has to be to our advantage.

There should be plenty of spots if the ACC wants to compete with the other three conferences. My guess is 6-8 ACC schools end up leaving if the Big XII fills up. If it doesn't then it's probably 8-12 schools that leave.

UNC is gone. Florida state is gone. Clemson is gone. Miami is gone. Virginia and Virginia tech are probably gone too.

If the Big XII doesn't fill up then you're looking at 2-4 more ACC schools leaving and the remainder of the ACC is just BC, Wake, Cuse and maybe Duke. So that doesn't help us either.