Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell. | Page 335 | The Boneyard

Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

Drew said:
There was a clip from Marchand & Ourand recently where they talked about where the BE would be if their rights were up for renewal today and the feedback was that they’d be “in a very similar situation to the PAC12 as a ”nice to have” but not a “need to have””.

Obviously just one (very informed) person’s opinion but I would tend to agree with that. Then you look around and every other league will have a streaming component for basketball starting next year… no chance there isn’t streaming on the BE deal IMO. Especially if they don’t like the FOX renewal offer. Even the B1G is putting 45 hoops games on Peacock starting next year.

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I hear you but I think there are things that nicely position the BE...

1. Big markets - Southern New England, NY, NJ, Philly, DC/VA/MD, Milwaukee, Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and Omaha.

2. On-court success. Villanova, UConn natty's. BE conference KenPom, etc rankings have had them in the top 3 or 4 conferences annually for the long term and the short term. The BE has a track record of better on court performance and eyeballs than PAC basketball.

3. Fan bases that care and legacy BE fans still have cable at rates higher than other fanbases. Ratings are solid and growing. As an example, passionate "cabled" fanbases have better positioned the Big12 over the PAC because TV executives know better.

4. The BE tourney as an entity itself. Most unbiased observers put it as the top or second best tourney in all the land.

5. Fox is likely to partner with ESPN+ to stream their content on the ESPN app and that will snare additional eyeballs for everyone and drive up revenues.

Streaming will always be a part of things, but to say BE basketball is going to be on a similar plane to the PAC is likely just lazy thinking at this time. It is apples and oranges simply due to people disregarding the BE because we don't have football.
 
CTFAN4LIFE said:
I hear you but I think there are things that nicely position the BE...

1. Big markets - Southern New England, NY, NJ, Philly, DC/VA/MD, Milwaukee, Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and Omaha.

2. On-court success. Villanova, UConn natty's. BE conference KenPom, etc rankings have had them in the top 3 or 4 conferences annually for the long term and the short term. The BE has a track record of better on court performance and eyeballs than PAC basketball.

3. Fan bases that care and legacy BE fans still have cable at rates higher than other fanbases. Ratings are solid and growing. As an example, passionate "cabled" fanbases have better positioned the Big12 over the PAC because TV executives know better.

4. The BE tourney as an entity itself. Most unbiased observers put it as the top or second best tourney in all the land.

5. Fox is likely to partner with ESPN+ to stream their content on the ESPN app and that will snare additional eyeballs for everyone and drive up revenues.

Streaming will always be a part of things, but to say BE basketball is going to be on a similar plane to the PAC is likely just lazy thinking at this time. It is apples and oranges simply due to people disregarding the BE because we don't have football.
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I really appreciate the back and forth but a few things here…

1. Are you really claiming these markets as “Big East”? Philly, DMV, Milwaukee, Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati and Omaha are dominated by Big Ten fans. I’d even argue NYC metro has more B1G fans than BE fans. Xavier is like the 5th most popular school in Cincinnati behind Ohio State, Kentucky, Cincinnati, and Louisville. We’re calling that a Big East market?

2. On court success doesn’t necessarily directly translate to better viewership. The BE does have a better on court success track record than the PAC, but I’d appreciate data showing that the BE has markedly better viewership than they do. And it’s not even close when comparing to the B1G.

3. I’d need to see data on this claim… the footprint is extremely similar to the B1G who has a large hoops streaming component as referenced. Not sure what this point is supposed to make.

4. The BE tournament was a can’t miss event. As someone that lives outside of the NYC metro are in Charlotte, I can tell you approximately 0 people care about it here. Last year’s BE tournament final was the 8th highest rated conference tournament final, on par with the A10 final ratings and behind the B1G, SEC, ACC, B12, MWC, AAC, P12 finals:

www.sportsmediawatch.com

Big Ten an exception as conference title games rebound

Outside of the Big Ten, ratings for the major college basketball conference title games rebounded significantly during championship week.
www.sportsmediawatch.com www.sportsmediawatch.com

5. I’m not sure what this point is trying to make. Yes ESPN is looking at a platform that would allow you to click into a Peacock (or similar streaming service) game from their device. What does that have to do with whether the BE will be avoiding streaming in their next deal?

The PAC conference tournament final outrated the BE tournament final in 2019, 2021, 2022. I can’t easily find data for before that but that’s not a great trend. Villanova’s two NCAA Tournament titles are the lowest rated cable tv finals in the sport’s history. 1 out of 30 (!!) of the top watched games in 2018, 2019, 2021 was a Big East game. I just don’t see any way the data bears the Big East getting a full or mostly linear TV deal, especially if they’re looking for $7M+ in TV money

Long story short, if the B1G- which is easily the most widely watched league in college hoops- has 45 games on Peacock- expect a bunch of BE games going on a streaming service as well.
 
This is a pretty good read showing that the BE as a TV property is basically the MLS. Which just signed a 10 year all in deal with Apple (roughly 30 games per year sub-licensed to linear on FOX):

painttouches.com

What are Big East TV Rights worth?

With TV rights values exploding, what might a conference like the Big East be worth?
painttouches.com painttouches.com

@CTFAN4LIFE
 
Drew said:
This is a pretty good read showing that the BE as a TV property is basically the MLS. Which just signed a 10 year all in deal with Apple (roughly 30 games per year sub-licensed to linear on FOX):

painttouches.com

What are Big East TV Rights worth?

With TV rights values exploding, what might a conference like the Big East be worth?
painttouches.com painttouches.com

@CTFAN4LIFE
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The article comes to the conclusion that the rights could worth ~$7 million, but there are some flaws in his logic. For example, he compares Big 10 TV ratings vs. Big East ratings TV ratings on FS1. This year, FS1 is broadcasting 30 Big 10 games and broadcasting >100 Big East games so the quality of the Big 10 matchups on FS1 were higher than the quality the entirety of Big East games. Of course the Big 10 games on FS1 were higher rated than the Big East games. If the Big East could cherry pick games for FS1, the ratings would be higher, but with fewer games.

Another point that is not addressed is that the inventory of Big East games on FOX channels is huge (>120 games) so if FOX did not renew the Big East contract, they would have a lot of time slots that need to be filled. Going forward, FOX/FS1 will broadcast about 45 Big 10 games (about the same as currently, lose 22 Pac 12 games, and gain a yet to be determined number of Big 12 games. The Big East TV package is the majority of men's college basketball games shown on FOX/FS1. AND, the only conference tournament FOX/FS1 will have in the future is the Big East if they renew as ESPN has the Big 12, ACC, and SEC championships and CBS has the Big 10 championship. (Will there be a Pac 12?)

The comparison to the Pac 12 contract negotiations is not valid because the biggest problem for the Pac 12 contract is football time slots and the value of late night football time slots. There are really no 3 PM (ET) or 7 PM (ET) time slots available for the Pac 12 and they are not going to play games at 9 AM West Coast time. Later time slots are available, but they are not as valuable.
 
Drew said:
I really appreciate the back and forth but a few things here…

1. Are you really claiming these markets as “Big East”? Philly, DMV, Milwaukee, Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati and Omaha are dominated by Big Ten fans. I’d even argue NYC metro has more B1G fans than BE fans. Xavier is like the 5th most popular school in Cincinnati behind Ohio State, Kentucky, Cincinnati, and Louisville. We’re calling that a Big East market?

2. On court success doesn’t necessarily directly translate to better viewership. The BE does have a better on court success track record than the PAC, but I’d appreciate data showing that the BE has markedly better viewership than they do. And it’s not even close when comparing to the B1G.

3. I’d need to see data on this claim… the footprint is extremely similar to the B1G who has a large hoops streaming component as referenced. Not sure what this point is supposed to make.

4. The BE tournament was a can’t miss event. As someone that lives outside of the NYC metro are in Charlotte, I can tell you approximately 0 people care about it here. Last year’s BE tournament final was the 8th highest rated conference tournament final, on par with the A10 final ratings and behind the B1G, SEC, ACC, B12, MWC, AAC, P12 finals:

www.sportsmediawatch.com

Big Ten an exception as conference title games rebound

Outside of the Big Ten, ratings for the major college basketball conference title games rebounded significantly during championship week.
www.sportsmediawatch.com www.sportsmediawatch.com

5. I’m not sure what this point is trying to make. Yes ESPN is looking at a platform that would allow you to click into a Peacock (or similar streaming service) game from their device. What does that have to do with whether the BE will be avoiding streaming in their next deal?

The PAC conference tournament final outrated the BE tournament final in 2019, 2021, 2022. I can’t easily find data for before that but that’s not a great trend. Villanova’s two NCAA Tournament titles are the lowest rated cable tv finals in the sport’s history. 1 out of 30 (!!) of the top watched games in 2018, 2019, 2021 was a Big East game. I just don’t see any way the data bears the Big East getting a full or mostly linear TV deal, especially if they’re looking for $7M+ in TV money

Long story short, if the B1G- which is easily the most widely watched league in college hoops- has 45 games on Peacock- expect a bunch of BE games going on a streaming service as well.
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1. I never claimed the markets to be "Big East" - you went there. My point is that BE schools are in big/important markets with influential media outlets, etc and they garner front page status in newspapers, online newsfeeds, etc. Of course, all of these markets are shared. But, the point is that the BE is well served by their markets.

2. You're creeping again by comparing BE viewership to the B1G (no one compares to the B1G). Back to my point - yes the data shows like-for-like that the BE on FS1 has outperformed the PAC on FS1.

3. BE FS1 (and Fox) numbers improved every year since 2014 and since UConn rejoining, the increase has jumped up even further.

4. Your Charlotte argument is again contrived. Your data is for one game - do you have data for the entire tournament? I wonder if the UConn-Nova semifinal had better ratings than the Creighton-Nova final?

5. I'm not saying the BE will try to avoid streaming - again stop putting words in my mouth. Fox putting games on ESPN+ is a form of streaming but it is a hybrid because the game would also be on FS1/Fox. I'm saying the BE will not live or die by streaming but it seems the PAC might.
 
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shizzle787 said:
Not necessarily. It could be a meeting to ratify the Pac-12 TV deal/GOR.
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I still believe the PAC has the best class top to bottom and it's an intriguing chess match. And with no inside info, I wonder if Colorado would rather stay aligned with the remaining PAC programs which for the most part are excellent academic and athletic institutions, and not return to the conference it left, especially given that conference is now watered down and abandoned by TX and OK. I think that would be a really tough pill to swallow, returning to the Big 12. The more I think about it, no freaking way.

PAC has quality not quantity and west coast
Big 12 has central location so more options for takers
ACC has GOR
 
Kolumbo said:
I still believe the PAC has the best class top to bottom and it's an intriguing chess match. And with no inside info, I wonder if Colorado would rather stay aligned with the remaining PAC programs which for the most part are excellent academic and athletic institutions, and not return to the conference it left, especially given that conference is now watered down and abandoned by TX and OK. I think that would be a really tough pill to swallow, returning to the Big 12. The more I think about it, no freaking way.

PAC has quality not quantity and west coast
Big 12 has central location so more options for takers
ACC has GOR
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True, but UConn swallowed a similar pill and it has worked out well so far. At the end of the day, Colorado would be silly to look let the past dictate its future. If I'm the 4 corner schools I'd make the jump to the Big12 as they have a better future than the PAC.
 
CTFAN4LIFE said:
True, but UConn swallowed a similar pill and it has worked out well so far. At the end of the day, Colorado would be silly to look let the past dictate its future. If I'm the 4 corner schools I'd make the jump to the Big12 as they have a better future than the PAC.
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Completely different. It would be like UConn leaving the AAC only to return to the AAC after Cincy and Houston left. That would be very very bad. UConn never left the Big East, it left the AAC to join the New Big East and no one thinks that is the permanent play. The Big 12 may have a better future, or not. It's still a band of very different academies which has proven to not be an ideal situation. Just 2 state flagships in the bunch.
 
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Kolumbo said:
Completely different. It would be like UConn leaving the AAC only to return to the AAC after Cincy and Houston left. That would be very very bad. UConn never left the Big East, it left the AAC to join the New Big East and no one thinks that is the permanent play. The Big 12 may have a better future, or not. It's still a band of very different academies which has proven to not be an ideal situation. Just 2 state flagships in the bunch.
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Eh that's still very different. The AAC was always very top heavy with the bottom dragging it down. The Big 12 has little to no bottom in both sports. I mean Kansas football typically but not right now.
 
How Sway?! said:
What amount would people be happy with? 10MM per school?
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Marquette account did an exercise to guess what it could be and figure it will or be close to doubling what league gets today which is in neighborhood of $8 mill a year per school. $10 would be great, but doesn't seem realistic in current environment where ESPN will likely not put in a competitive bid (be it from a linear cable and/or monetary standpoint) as Disney has asked Bristol to be picky with inventory.

What are Big East TV Rights worth?
 
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Storrs South said:
Marquette account did an exercise to guess what it could be and figure it will or be close to doubling what league gets today which is in neighborhood of $8 mill a year per school. $10 would be great, but doesn't seem realistic in current environment where ESPN will likely not put in a competitive bid (be it from a linear cable and/or monetary standpoint) as Disney has asked Bristol to be picky with inventory.

What are Big East TV Rights worth?
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I always thought the logic of using MLS as a comparison was sketchy, but I do think the number they came up with is about right.
 
noeynox said:
Well that would be like a 100 percent increase, so if you're not happy with that. Something is wrong with you. Now I doubt they get that number.
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I'd be plenty happy. Put me in the 96.32% who are happy.

There's always 3.68% who are never happy.
 
don356 said:
The timing of her release is interesting.
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Yep. It makes you wonder if the rumors of other conferences looking at the big east for potential expansion targets have some basis to them.
 
don356 said:
The timing of her release is interesting.
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The timing doesn't seem that odd to me with 2 years left on the contract. Just completed a successful women's tournament and the teams and press are in NY for the Big East men's tournament and the spotlight is on the conference.
 
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UConnJim said:
The timing doesn't seem that odd to me with 2 years left on the contract. Just completed a successful women's tournament and the teams and press are in NY for the Big East men's tournament and the spotlight is on the conference.
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Note that she’s not actually negotiating with Fox. Per Fanta, she is just announcing that she will be negotiating within a couple of months.
 
CL82 said:
Note that she’s not actually negotiating with Fox. Per Fanta, she is just announcing that she will be negotiating within a couple of months.
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As they'd say in the south, "I'm fixin' to do it".
 
CL82 said:
Yep. It makes you wonder if the rumors of other conferences looking at the big east for potential expansion targets have some basis to them.
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Uh,... yeah,..

NO!
 
CL82 said:
Yep. It makes you wonder if the rumors of other conferences looking at the big east for potential expansion targets have some basis to them.
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Only if it’s UCONN. Basketball onlies are a non-starter.
 
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