Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[djct1999]

John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover · 7h7 hours ago
John E. Hoover: #Sooners Boren, #Big12 headed for showdown
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsext...2-b57f-1c1f1a63b116.html#.VsefrI_31C4.twitter

“You are truly an outstanding leader and knowing that you are at the helm in Cincinnati makes me even more inclined to support your cause,” Boren said in a February 2015 email to Ono, adding that proponents of Big 12 expansion “still face an uphill battle with several of our other colleagues.”

Later in Monday’s report, in an exchange between Ono and former Kansas State president Jon Wefald, Ono was told by Wefald that “David is impressed with Cincinnati. … He knows that UC is a big-time school.”

All indications are that Boren’s other choice for expansion is BYU, though he won’t say, and he said he won’t let his personal choice logjam league-wide consensus.

A lot has happened in a year. UConn's profile for one has become much better. Second, a head scratching on the field decision to add Rutgers for the B1g shows how valuable the northeast, particularly the NYC dma is. The financial gap between the Big12 vs its peers has widened.......I just don't see how adding Cincy and BYU will benefit and actually save the Big12 long term. On the flip side, the optimist in me hopes that if UConn is not being mentioned favorably it is because UConn has committed elsewhere. I realize its not the popular opinion but I really do hold out hope that B1g adds us first. Branding UConn as the sixth borough was brilliant and it seems that UConn as the NYC team is gaining momentum. NYC remains the network holy grail and I just can't understand why Delaney would be willing to wait it out and in the interim give up another piece of the NYC pie. As hard as it is to believe now, allowing UConn to go elsewhere can make the B1g vulnerable down the road. How? Lets assume UConn joins the Big12 and the network does well. A few years later, the ACC implodes. UNC chooses the SEC. FSU and Clemson choose the Big12. The Big12 also decides to add Syracuse and Pitt. On the field, this hypothetical makes the Big12 better. Financially, the Big12 with Syracuse and UConn would own NYC. I would argue, over time, this could very well catapult a Big12 conference over the Big10.
Bottomline is that UConn is far more valuable than some people want to believe or understand. Insecurities aside, I just don't see how in any way UConn is left out to dry in the next round of realignment.

 

[Stinger92860]

Ohio HS football > New England HS football

Like infinitely better. Not even close.

It's a recruiting play too.

Is Ohio NFL infinitely better than CT NFL? Just curious.

 

[billybud]

If you mean NFL players from Ohio...probably. Cleveland Glendale puts out the most from Ohio.

Florida NFL isn't as good as Denver or Charlotte or New England....but on opening week, there were 204 former Florida HS kids on the rosters...led the nation. followed by California and Texas.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

A lot has happened in a year.

Exactly. In Feb 2015 the B12 was fresh off a snub in the inaugural CFP. If ever there was a time to make a rash expansion decision it was then. Take your top available football schools and move on. Since then, talk of expansion is all about coinciding with a network. I think it's that simple. If they're serious about a network, UConn needs to be taken. If not, I don't see the point of expansion at all really.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Is Ohio NFL infinitely better than CT NFL? Just curious.

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/J_G3Ol...ery-active-nfl-player-went-to-high-school.htm

This is a few years old (and I can't absolutely confirm it's accuracy) but the difference in number of players from Ohio vs Ct is drastic and has been for as long as there has been an NFL. I would go so far as to say that the are likely substantially more starters in the NFL from Ohio than there are roster players (starters, subs, IR & even practice squad) from Ct.

 

[dwalks93]

B12 is expanding for a network, not for recruiting grounds. All things equal, a strong football recruiting state will get the tie breaker but picking the teams which best allow the B12 to build a network should be the deciding factor.

There is a reason OU President Boren is pushing the "metrics" so hard...He does not want this to turn into a popularity contest or a fan vote. For the B12 this is a business decision.

If UConn is in the top 2 for building a B12 network we will get the nod.

 

[BFieldHusky]

Have to think UConn will have better metrics than Cincy. Bigger television market. By a good amount. I agree with others here...not sure why Cincy is a lock for number 11.

 

[1husky]

Have to think UConn will have better metrics than Cincy. Bigger television market. By a good amount. I agree with others here...not sure why Cincy is a lock for number 11.

Cincy is a lock because they are seen as a viable alternative to Louisville, who everyone agrees was a mistake to pass on. They have also been working relationships with Big12 leaders for years to position themselves for this moment. Hopefully, Warde and Susan didn't wait too long to do the same because like most on this board they didn't recognize the value UConn can bring to the Big12 until 6 months ago. BYU is a good candidate. If the Big12 is smart they will follow the proven B1G model and go east with a flagship.

 

[BFieldHusky]

Cincy is a lock because they are seen as a viable alternative to Louisville, who everyone agrees was a mistake to pass on. They have also been working relationships with Big12 leaders for years to position themselves for this moment. Hopefully, Warde and Susan didn't wait too long to do the same because like most on this board they didn't recognize the value UConn can bring to the Big12 until 6 months ago. BYU is a good candidate. If the Big12 is smart they will follow the proven B1G model and go east with a flagship.

Not saying you are wrong about the relationship angle, but again this is about money and a conference network. If the metrics show that UConn/BYU will make the conference network more valuable for the Big 12, Cincy is out. This is what Boren said at least when talking about why they hired these data firms.

Also, I don't see how Cincy is a viable alternative to Louisville. I hate Ville, but why had just been in a BCS bowl game and won when they were picked, and had been in a Final 4. Cincy, while a good football program, is not a dominant team, and is a decent basketball school the last 20 years.

 

[MattMang23]

If Cincy is going to be compared to Louisville, let's look at it:

Basketball: Half this board wasn't born the last time Cincy won a national title in 1962. Since that year they have made one final four and two additional elite eights. Louisville has a clear edge. By a lot.

Football: 17 bowls, 8 wins. Two BCS appearances, 0-2. (And got smacked by Florida worse than we did against Oklahoma, although they went 12-1 and finished 8th in AP) Advantage Louisville. A little bit closer though.

Neilson 2015-2016 DMA rank: Cincinnati, 36th. Louisville, 49th. (Hartford, 30th). Advantage Cincy, although to say either has full command of even their own home city would be foolish- but that's not the point.(UConn has full command of a market that is bigger than either Cincy or Louisville though.)

Academics: Cincy T140 USNWR rank. Louisville T168 USNWR rank. Cincy is the taller midget.

Team values: Forbes has Louisville ranked as the most valuable NCAA team in basketball. Cincy is unranked. They're both unranked in football. (We are also unranked in both sports.) BIG edge to Louisville.

Conclusion: according to important numbers that conference and university execs care about- tv households- Cincy is a viable alternative to Louisville. In everything else, stuff fans care about, athletic success, team value, etc., it's not close.

 

[1husky]

If Cincy is going to be compared to Louisville, let's look at it:

Basketball: Half this board wasn't born the last time Cincy won a national title in 1962. Since that year they have made one final four and two additional elite eights. Louisville has a clear edge. By a lot.

Football: 17 bowls, 8 wins. Two BCS appearances, 0-2. (And got smacked by Florida worse than we did against Oklahoma, although they went 12-1 and finished 8th in AP) Advantage Louisville. A little bit closer though.

Neilson 2015-2016 DMA rank: Cincinnati, 36th. Louisville, 49th. (Hartford, 30th). Advantage Cincy, although to say either has full command of even their own home city would be foolish- but that's not the point.(UConn has full command of a market that is bigger than either Cincy or Louisville though.)

Academics: Cincy T140 USNWR rank. Louisville T168 USNWR rank. Cincy is the taller midget.

Team values: Forbes has Louisville ranked as the most valuable NCAA team in basketball. Cincy is unranked. They're both unranked in football. (We are also unranked in both sports.) BIG edge to Louisville.

Conclusion: according to important numbers that conference and university execs care about- tv households- Cincy is a viable alternative to Louisville. In everything else, stuff fans care about, athletic success, team value, etc., it's not close.

And yet Louisville already beat us out and the nationwide perception is Cincy is a lock while everyone is shocked that UConn is in the discussion. Perception is all that matters. Even 95% of this board didn't see the value we bring to the Big12 or that we would have any chance at the Big12 6 months ago. Hopefully the data will change the perception of Big12 leaders but the fans and media still have to be convinced. If I'm Susan I am not relying solely on the metrics.

 

[MattMang23]

And yet Louisville already beat us out and the nationwide perception is Cincy is a lock while everyone is shocked that UConn is in the discussion. Perception is all that matters. Even 95% of this board didn't see the value we bring to the Big12 or that we would have any chance at the Big12 6 months ago. Hopefully the data will change the perception of Big12 leaders but the fans and media still have to be convinced. If I'm Susan I am not relying solely on the metrics.

Perception is all that matters to fans, and conferences that go by the name ACC. To them, we are accurately perceived as having a worse football program than either Cincy or Louisville and being a northern (women's) basketball school. Fine. But fans and the ACC are not making the BXII's decision for them. How do you know what the BXII leaders' perception of us is?

I, like you, would hope that Susan is pushing numbers as well as working to improve our overall reputation, but we aren't going to be the choice here because of our perception. We are going to be the choice because of the numbers.

 

[dwalks93]

There is no way the B12 is not following the BIG model as opposed to the ACC model. Perception was Rutgers was a poor BIG add right up until the BIG payout check arrived. The leagues the B12 is trying to emulate are the BIG and SEC not the ACC. The Rutgers lesson had to be absorbed by the B12.

The B12 is making a business decision. They spend thousands of dollars to hire outside consultants to crunch the numbers. And Boren has repeat stressed the metrics need to be the deciding factors on expansion.

I hate other fans and programs dismissing UConn but that should not factor in the B12's decision. It is all about the network and the money. Neither UConn, Cincy, or BYU measurably increases the B12's football cred...this expansion is about a network.

Just cause the Cincy president went on a worldwide twitter campaign does not change the metrics. In fact that seems more like the move of a team who is trying to change the evaluatory criteria or at least build a public case as to how hard they lobbied. Maybe Cincy is in but it will be based on its financial worth to a network. I like UConn's chances.

If B12 network comes into existence we should start a poll as to which ACC team jumps first. It is just a matter of time...

 

[Ldandy]

And yet Louisville already beat us out and the nationwide perception is Cincy is a lock while everyone is shocked that UConn is in the discussion. Perception is all that matters. Even 95% of this board didn't see the value we bring to the Big12 or that we would have any chance at the Big12 6 months ago. Hopefully the data will change the perception of Big12 leaders but the fans and media still have to be convinced. If I'm Susan I am not relying solely on the metrics.

I think national perception on UCONN to The Big 12 is shaped far less by its accomplishments and more by people simply looking at a map. Someone who doesn't follow college realignment closely is going to question the idea of UCONN in a conference with Texas. Cincy is at least in the Midwest and relatively close to schools like WVU an ISU. I think they are in. If the conference is truly serious about starting a network then the easy choice for 12 is UCONN. If they just want a conference championship game and a school with a football rep, then BYU becomes a viable option. The dumbest thing The Big 12 ever did was not put the full court press on Louisville. They could have added them along with WVU, Cincy, and maybe even Pitt to make a legit claim at another part of the country.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Cincinnati is the CR (in the context of the B-12 considering expansion in the current environment) version of a safety school.

While not great, they won't be an embarrassment as a football program.

While not great, they won't be an embarrassment as a basketball program.

They have an NFL stadium down the road that can be used when larger (Texas, Oklahoma) programs come to town.

They are in a very fertile recruiting region (Stoops scheduled a home and home with UC not quite a decade ago solely for the access to him home states recruiting grounds) which will be an ancillary benefit (look at Maryland and New Jersey for the B1G) to the conference even if they fall short in performance.

I don't see them as a lock in any way, shape or form and in comparison to us and BYU, their best falls short of what UConn's best and BYU's best are. They are likely the least risky choice and would also likely be the easiest to get a consensus agreement on.

 

[sportsart]

Can someone tell me where I can find the key tweets thread?

 

[billybud]

Rutgers was still a poor athletic addition...cable box U for the B1G all right...but a drag on the schedule all the same.

If someone can add Wake Forest and make a big buck with boxes, I still couldn't see them as a athletic add.

 

[whaler11]

The Big 12 actually cares about the major sports... so when you combine that with geography Cincinnati is an absolute no brainer if the Big 12 expands. They have been playing Big 12 football while in the Big East and AAC. Maybe you remember Cinci 47 UConn 45...

They sit in recruiting ground the league needs and they were one bad clock from playing for a football NC recently.

 

[Fishy]

The Big 12 actually cares about the major sports...

Et tu, Whaler? Et tu?

 

[whaler11]

Et tu, Whaler? Et tu?

Sorry I meant to throw in Fishy should ban me for posting in Key.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

If I wanted to start a network...where would one look?

 

[RatholeMA]

If I wanted to start a network...where would one look?

Maybe a school in northwest North Dakota? Looks like a lot of people there.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Maybe a school in northwest North Dakota? Looks like a lot of people there.

Wow, did not realize how active the Bakken Oil fields were...

 

[MattMang23]

If I wanted to start a network...where would one look?

There's a light on in Provo. At least for BYU's sake it's better than the University of Wyoming.

 

[jostar1]

Blau's Blog
Another giant BC mistake
by Mark • February 22, 2016

The announcement sounded promising. Boston College, criticized for what it didn’t have in terms of athletic facilities and amenities, was announcing a $200 million athletic funding project.

Improvements in recreational sports, an upgrade in baseball facilities. Positive things for the university.

All items which would improve the quality of life for students at Boston College.

But then near the end of the release was this statement: DISCUSSIONS will begin about building an indoor football practice facility. No where is improving the basketball facilities mentioned.

DISCUSSIONS?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

BC, which in athletics is President Father William Leahy and athletic director Brad Bates,doesn’t get it.

They have the dog walking the man. All the improvements which have been announced and funded will do ALMOST NOTHING to improve the profile of the revenue producing sports, football and men’s basketball.

Read more:

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=13338