Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell. | Page 102 | The Boneyard

Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

B12 is expanding for a network, not for recruiting grounds. All things equal, a strong football recruiting state will get the tie breaker but picking the teams which best allow the B12 to build a network should be the deciding factor.

There is a reason OU President Boren is pushing the "metrics" so hard...He does not want this to turn into a popularity contest or a fan vote. For the B12 this is a business decision.

If UConn is in the top 2 for building a B12 network we will get the nod.
 
Have to think UConn will have better metrics than Cincy. Bigger television market. By a good amount. I agree with others here...not sure why Cincy is a lock for number 11.
 
BFieldHusky said:
Have to think UConn will have better metrics than Cincy. Bigger television market. By a good amount. I agree with others here...not sure why Cincy is a lock for number 11.
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Cincy is a lock because they are seen as a viable alternative to Louisville, who everyone agrees was a mistake to pass on. They have also been working relationships with Big12 leaders for years to position themselves for this moment. Hopefully, Warde and Susan didn't wait too long to do the same because like most on this board they didn't recognize the value UConn can bring to the Big12 until 6 months ago. BYU is a good candidate. If the Big12 is smart they will follow the proven B1G model and go east with a flagship.
 
1husky said:
Cincy is a lock because they are seen as a viable alternative to Louisville, who everyone agrees was a mistake to pass on. They have also been working relationships with Big12 leaders for years to position themselves for this moment. Hopefully, Warde and Susan didn't wait too long to do the same because like most on this board they didn't recognize the value UConn can bring to the Big12 until 6 months ago. BYU is a good candidate. If the Big12 is smart they will follow the proven B1G model and go east with a flagship.
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Not saying you are wrong about the relationship angle, but again this is about money and a conference network. If the metrics show that UConn/BYU will make the conference network more valuable for the Big 12, Cincy is out. This is what Boren said at least when talking about why they hired these data firms.

Also, I don't see how Cincy is a viable alternative to Louisville. I hate Ville, but why had just been in a BCS bowl game and won when they were picked, and had been in a Final 4. Cincy, while a good football program, is not a dominant team, and is a decent basketball school the last 20 years.
 
If Cincy is going to be compared to Louisville, let's look at it:

Basketball: Half this board wasn't born the last time Cincy won a national title in 1962. Since that year they have made one final four and two additional elite eights. Louisville has a clear edge. By a lot.

Football: 17 bowls, 8 wins. Two BCS appearances, 0-2. (And got smacked by Florida worse than we did against Oklahoma, although they went 12-1 and finished 8th in AP) Advantage Louisville. A little bit closer though.

Neilson 2015-2016 DMA rank: Cincinnati, 36th. Louisville, 49th. (Hartford, 30th). Advantage Cincy, although to say either has full command of even their own home city would be foolish- but that's not the point.(UConn has full command of a market that is bigger than either Cincy or Louisville though.)

Academics: Cincy T140 USNWR rank. Louisville T168 USNWR rank. Cincy is the taller midget.

Team values: Forbes has Louisville ranked as the most valuable NCAA team in basketball. Cincy is unranked. They're both unranked in football. (We are also unranked in both sports.) BIG edge to Louisville.

Conclusion: according to important numbers that conference and university execs care about- tv households- Cincy is a viable alternative to Louisville. In everything else, stuff fans care about, athletic success, team value, etc., it's not close.
 
MattMang23 said:
If Cincy is going to be compared to Louisville, let's look at it:

Basketball: Half this board wasn't born the last time Cincy won a national title in 1962. Since that year they have made one final four and two additional elite eights. Louisville has a clear edge. By a lot.

Football: 17 bowls, 8 wins. Two BCS appearances, 0-2. (And got smacked by Florida worse than we did against Oklahoma, although they went 12-1 and finished 8th in AP) Advantage Louisville. A little bit closer though.

Neilson 2015-2016 DMA rank: Cincinnati, 36th. Louisville, 49th. (Hartford, 30th). Advantage Cincy, although to say either has full command of even their own home city would be foolish- but that's not the point.(UConn has full command of a market that is bigger than either Cincy or Louisville though.)

Academics: Cincy T140 USNWR rank. Louisville T168 USNWR rank. Cincy is the taller midget.

Team values: Forbes has Louisville ranked as the most valuable NCAA team in basketball. Cincy is unranked. They're both unranked in football. (We are also unranked in both sports.) BIG edge to Louisville.

Conclusion: according to important numbers that conference and university execs care about- tv households- Cincy is a viable alternative to Louisville. In everything else, stuff fans care about, athletic success, team value, etc., it's not close.
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And yet Louisville already beat us out and the nationwide perception is Cincy is a lock while everyone is shocked that UConn is in the discussion. Perception is all that matters. Even 95% of this board didn't see the value we bring to the Big12 or that we would have any chance at the Big12 6 months ago. Hopefully the data will change the perception of Big12 leaders but the fans and media still have to be convinced. If I'm Susan I am not relying solely on the metrics.
 
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1husky said:
And yet Louisville already beat us out and the nationwide perception is Cincy is a lock while everyone is shocked that UConn is in the discussion. Perception is all that matters. Even 95% of this board didn't see the value we bring to the Big12 or that we would have any chance at the Big12 6 months ago. Hopefully the data will change the perception of Big12 leaders but the fans and media still have to be convinced. If I'm Susan I am not relying solely on the metrics.
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Perception is all that matters to fans, and conferences that go by the name ACC. To them, we are accurately perceived as having a worse football program than either Cincy or Louisville and being a northern (women's) basketball school. Fine. But fans and the ACC are not making the BXII's decision for them. How do you know what the BXII leaders' perception of us is?

I, like you, would hope that Susan is pushing numbers as well as working to improve our overall reputation, but we aren't going to be the choice here because of our perception. We are going to be the choice because of the numbers.
 
There is no way the B12 is not following the BIG model as opposed to the ACC model. Perception was Rutgers was a poor BIG add right up until the BIG payout check arrived. The leagues the B12 is trying to emulate are the BIG and SEC not the ACC. The Rutgers lesson had to be absorbed by the B12.

The B12 is making a business decision. They spend thousands of dollars to hire outside consultants to crunch the numbers. And Boren has repeat stressed the metrics need to be the deciding factors on expansion.

I hate other fans and programs dismissing UConn but that should not factor in the B12's decision. It is all about the network and the money. Neither UConn, Cincy, or BYU measurably increases the B12's football cred...this expansion is about a network.

Just cause the Cincy president went on a worldwide twitter campaign does not change the metrics. In fact that seems more like the move of a team who is trying to change the evaluatory criteria or at least build a public case as to how hard they lobbied. Maybe Cincy is in but it will be based on its financial worth to a network. I like UConn's chances.

If B12 network comes into existence we should start a poll as to which ACC team jumps first. It is just a matter of time...
 
1husky said:
And yet Louisville already beat us out and the nationwide perception is Cincy is a lock while everyone is shocked that UConn is in the discussion. Perception is all that matters. Even 95% of this board didn't see the value we bring to the Big12 or that we would have any chance at the Big12 6 months ago. Hopefully the data will change the perception of Big12 leaders but the fans and media still have to be convinced. If I'm Susan I am not relying solely on the metrics.
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I think national perception on UCONN to The Big 12 is shaped far less by its accomplishments and more by people simply looking at a map. Someone who doesn't follow college realignment closely is going to question the idea of UCONN in a conference with Texas. Cincy is at least in the Midwest and relatively close to schools like WVU an ISU. I think they are in. If the conference is truly serious about starting a network then the easy choice for 12 is UCONN. If they just want a conference championship game and a school with a football rep, then BYU becomes a viable option. The dumbest thing The Big 12 ever did was not put the full court press on Louisville. They could have added them along with WVU, Cincy, and maybe even Pitt to make a legit claim at another part of the country.
 
Cincinnati is the CR (in the context of the B-12 considering expansion in the current environment) version of a safety school.

While not great, they won't be an embarrassment as a football program.

While not great, they won't be an embarrassment as a basketball program.

They have an NFL stadium down the road that can be used when larger (Texas, Oklahoma) programs come to town.

They are in a very fertile recruiting region (Stoops scheduled a home and home with UC not quite a decade ago solely for the access to him home states recruiting grounds) which will be an ancillary benefit (look at Maryland and New Jersey for the B1G) to the conference even if they fall short in performance.

I don't see them as a lock in any way, shape or form and in comparison to us and BYU, their best falls short of what UConn's best and BYU's best are. They are likely the least risky choice and would also likely be the easiest to get a consensus agreement on.
 
Rutgers was still a poor athletic addition...cable box U for the B1G all right...but a drag on the schedule all the same.

If someone can add Wake Forest and make a big buck with boxes, I still couldn't see them as a athletic add.
 
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The Big 12 actually cares about the major sports... so when you combine that with geography Cincinnati is an absolute no brainer if the Big 12 expands. They have been playing Big 12 football while in the Big East and AAC. Maybe you remember Cinci 47 UConn 45...

They sit in recruiting ground the league needs and they were one bad clock from playing for a football NC recently.
 
light-pollution-usa.jpg

If I wanted to start a network...where would one look?
 
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Blau's Blog
Another giant BC mistake
by Mark • February 22, 2016

The announcement sounded promising. Boston College, criticized for what it didn’t have in terms of athletic facilities and amenities, was announcing a $200 million athletic funding project.

Improvements in recreational sports, an upgrade in baseball facilities. Positive things for the university.

All items which would improve the quality of life for students at Boston College.

But then near the end of the release was this statement: DISCUSSIONS will begin about building an indoor football practice facility. No where is improving the basketball facilities mentioned.

DISCUSSIONS?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

BC, which in athletics is President Father William Leahy and athletic director Brad Bates,doesn’t get it.

They have the dog walking the man. All the improvements which have been announced and funded will do ALMOST NOTHING to improve the profile of the revenue producing sports, football and men’s basketball.

Read more:

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=13338
 
Last edited:
Kent Sterling ‏@KentSterling · 1h1 hour ago  Indiana, USA
What is it about Louisville coaches chasing tail? Is there something in the river water that clouds judgment? #Louisville

Kent SterlingVerified account
@KentSterling
Happy to host The Kent Sterling Show weekdays from 3p-6p on CBS Sports 1430 in Indianapolis, and continuing to provide content at http://www.kentsterling.com.
 
jostar1 said:
Blau's Blog
Another giant BC mistake
by Mark • February 22, 2016

The announcement sounded promising. Boston College, criticized for what it didn’t have in terms of athletic facilities and amenities, was announcing a $200 million athletic funding project.

Improvements in recreational sports, an upgrade in baseball facilities. Positive things for the university.

All items which would improve the quality of life for students at Boston College.

But then near the end of the release was this statement: DISCUSSIONS will begin about building an indoor football practice facility. No where is improving the basketball facilities mentioned.

DISCUSSIONS?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

BC, which in athletics is President Father William Leahy and athletic director Brad Bates,doesn’t get it.

They have the dog walking the man. All the improvements which have been announced and funded will do ALMOST NOTHING to improve the profile of the revenue producing sports, football and men’s basketball.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=13338
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If there is a hint of truth to this, it significantly explains how Warde jumped from the AD of a G5 program over the head of Bates, an AD from a P5, program to become the AD of one the the top 5 athletic programs in the country at U of Michigan even though they both had similar connections to Ann Arbor.
 
jostar1 said:
Kent Sterling ‏@KentSterling · 1h1 hour ago  Indiana, USA
What is it about Louisville coaches chasing tail? Is there something in the river water that clouds judgment? #Louisville

Kent SterlingVerified account
@KentSterling
Happy to host The Kent Sterling Show weekdays from 3p-6p on CBS Sports 1430 in Indianapolis, and continuing to provide content at http://www.kentsterling.com.
Expand ...
Charlie Strong supposedly had an affair with UL trustee's wife, which came up in the divorce case.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
If there is a hint of truth to this, it significantly explains how Warde jumped from the AD of a G5 program over the head of Bates, an AD from a P5, program to become the AD of one the the top 5 athletic programs in the country at U of Michigan.
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BC is coasting on the ACC tv money, and is being left behind by the rest of its conference. It's just another warm body in the P5 world, somebody has to fill out the schedules. Its real success is as a university that appeals to a lot of college applicants and can charge whatever it wants for tuition.
 
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Mr. Conehead said:
If there is a hint of truth to this, it significantly explains how Warde jumped from the AD of a G5 program over the head of Bates, an AD from a P5, program to become the AD of one the the top 5 athletic programs in the country at U of Michigan even though they both had similar connections to Ann Arbor.
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@Mr. Conehead, do you think the college athletic world views, albeit accurately, as a G5 program. I don't. When you look at Warde and the size of the AD budget and the national championships and facility expansion, etc. I don't think they view that G5...or is that just me being a fan?
 
CL82 said:
@Mr. Conehead, do you think the college athletic world views, albeit accurately, as a G5 program. I don't. When you look at Warde and the size of the AD budget and the national championships and facility expansion, etc. I don't think they view that G5...or is that just me being a fan?
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As a fan, looking at budgets, facilities, and championships, UConn is more of a P5 program than BC; but, the media tends to view things differently...
 
CL82 said:
@Mr. Conehead, do you think the college athletic world views, albeit accurately, as a G5 program. I don't. When you look at Warde and the size of the AD budget and the national championships and facility expansion, etc. I don't think they view that G5...or is that just me being a fan?
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I wonder about this, too...obviously, we're not on the level of schools like OU, Texas, OSU, Michigan...don't think any rational person can deny that. There's no way we aren't seen as at least on par with schools like Kansas State, Purdue, Wake, BC, Minnesota, any lower tier P5 team. Our only issue is that the perception of our football program is really poor. Fledgling program, recent poor performance, relatively low attendance. I truly think that the fact that the stadium is off campus looks really bad and is one of the more serious mistakes we've made as a university
 
Mr. Conehead said:
As a fan, looking at budgets, facilities, and championships, UConn is more of a P5 program than BC; but, the media tends to view things differently...
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Agree regarding the media, but Michigan's due diligence would have been looking at hard numbers not articles. I suspect that the decision makers there didn't view UConn with the G5 pejorative attached. Instead they saw a flagship, land grant university with a big time budget, great facilities, at least for marquis sports, and outstanding athletic success. From that perspective, Warde is a no brainer.
 
I avoid writing on this thread to avoid the wrath, but I had to chime in. UConn is absolutely "powerful" in terms of athletics. One of the best AD departments in the entire old Big East. This P5/G5 only came about for football purposes and even there UConn is better than many P5 programs. No question.
 
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