It's just so very sad | Page 7 | The Boneyard

It's just so very sad

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BLUEDOGHOUSE said:
Funny how the mods deleted a factually accurate post regarding the father of the shooter. Maybe the bloodbath wasn't so painful to fishy.
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Never saw it, so why don't you just go duck* yourself.

Jackass.
 
BLUEDOGHOUSE said:
You mean you have the guts to come out from under your post deleting rock? I respect that at least.
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I didn't read or delete your post, sweet pea.
 
temery said:
Well then ... The ban apparently worked. Let's use the same strategy toward the guns the ******* used in Newtown.
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Latest is that he left the .223 rifle in the car. Just used the 2 pistols.

Given that statistics show approximately 2 million defensive uses of firearms a year, are you willing to take responsibility for them as victims?

This was a mentally unstable person. Nobody sold him guns. He took them from his mother and killed her. Additional gun laws would not have prevented this.
 
BLUEDOGHOUSE said:
Funny how the mods deleted a factually accurate post regarding the father of the shooter. Maybe the bloodbath wasn't so painful to fishy.
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I deleted your post, not fishy.

I don't believe dragging the father (or brother) through the mud is wise, or fair. The fact that your criticism of the father was beyond bizarre made it even easier to delete your post.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Latest is that he left the .223 rifle in the car. Just used the 2 pistols.

Given that statistics show approximately 2 million defensive uses of firearms a year, are you willing to take responsibility for them as victims?

This was a mentally unstable person. Nobody sold him guns. He took them from his mother and killed her. Additional gun laws would not have prevented this.
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A pistol. I heard he was loading gunpowder into it, using one of those packer things to tamp it down, pulling ball bearings out of his pocket, then firing.

If I were there with a Sig Sauer, a "pistol" that shoots 700 rounds a minute, I could have easily taken him out in between his repacking.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
Latest is that he left the .223 rifle in the car. Just used the 2 pistols.
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State Police just confirmed that he had all of the firearms in the school. Including the Sig Sauer.
 
CL82 said:
Thanks. This is the best thing in this thread. Her courage under terrifying circumstances is inspirational and a nice reminder of how good, decent and strong people can be. If she was my child's teacher she would have a blank marker from me ...for life.
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Last night I heard an interview with another one of the teachers. Clearly an older woman, who said she had been a teacher for thirty years. When she heard the PA go off, she locked the door and calmly moved her kids into a corner and started reading to them as if nothing was wrong. Anderson Cooper was floored- how can you hold it together and act as if everything is normal?

"Because you have to hold it together for them."

Two heroes, with different strategies in a crisis, both effective. I find it fascinating.
 
joober jones said:
Since this horrific tragedy happened, I've heard countless people:
1. Use it as a chance to tout their anti gun philosophies
2. Pro-gun people thinking more about defending their position than the massive loss
3. Obama supporters using it to say "oh how much he loves and cares for us all"
4. Obama detractors using it to say "oh, he's just acting, none of his words are real"

The fact is 26 people (I'm not counting the shooter as human) had their lives snuffed out for no good reason and the damage done to their lives and the lives of their loved ones is irreparable. This is not a time for soapboxing. What we have on our hands is a situation too horrible for words and wounds that will never heal. Let's drop our petty arguments for a moment and pay our respects, whether through thought, prayer, or any other method possible to all of the victims of this needless travesty.
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I think we as a society are capable of offering thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families, and carrying out a dialogue at the same time. Those who say "it's too soon" or "now is not the time" to talk about the issue are pushing a form of political correctness. Now is the perfect time to talk about it and decide what we are going to do about the problem as a nation, as tzznandrew and others are doing in this thread thoughtfully and with respect for the victims, without suppressing our personal emotions which are very relevant to the issue.
 
My thoughts and prayers are with the families. I just think about those affected and tear up. Hopefully most of us have our priorities in order, but it does put in perspective some of the meaningless garbage we whine about. Health and family is everything. God bless all of you in Connecticut.
 
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temery said:
I deleted your post, not fishy.

I don't believe dragging the father (or brother) through the mud is wise, or fair. The fact that your criticism of the father was beyond bizarre made it even easier to delete your post.
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How was it beyond bizzare? Correcting misinformation is bizzare? Show me proof that his father is a lawyer. He is not. We can start there. Credibility starts with providing factually correct information. It also is not bizzare to assume that if you hold yourself out as a lawyer and are not admitted to practice....you are engaging in the unauthorized practice of law. That is what the poster claimed. A simple rebuttal cleared that mishap up.

Any info after that should make it clear who has credibility and who made the bizzare post.

Thanks for the post.

This is not a time to make any excuses for peoples actions or INACTION. That was the tone of the OP anyways.

Best...
 
Fishy said:
No, you don't have to apologize...it didn't rub me the wrong way. I was teasing a bit there - a deeper, more thoughtful person might have been offended, but fortunately, I'm immune.

I appreciated your thoughts and should have sanded off the sharper edges of my own. I think I've reached the edge of patience and sanity with these sorts of tragedies, I really do.
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I'm going to be presumptuous and without really knowing you I could be way off the mark. But even in this most G-d awful time for many of us, including yourself, I believe you have the capacity to forgive me if I'm wrong. If what I have to say doesn't apply to you it certainly could hit the mark for someone else. And if there is any truth to my oversimplified point of view I think you can take these events, and my advice, and become even greater then you already are.

You are one of the posters I most respect. But I always felt you use your humor to deflect feeling about things. In many cases things need to be deflected and there is no one better than you in accomplishing this. Like everything we do, there is a potential upside and a potential downside to our actions. If you are choosing to deflect things to get people to come to their senses because doing so helps them, that is great. If you are using your wit to get people to stop so you don't have to "listen" to things that annoy you, that isn't as healthy for either you or the other person.

You certainly think about things. You're mind is incredible. I would love to have at my disposal a fraction of your gift.

But your op is the first time I've seen you state something passionately that was truly heartfelt. Many of us stop feeling because it hurts too much. To avoid feeling we go into our heads and develop our minds. Or we retreat by doing multiple activities which becomes our excuse to avoid thinking and feeling. Still others of us turn to things that take us away from reality such as drugs or alcohol.

This event hit home for you and others, who have turned away from their emotions and buried them or deflect them. This is a giant step for people. When it comes to emotions, there are very few people who can suppress them all. And there are even fewer of us who have all emotions readily available. Children are the exception to this. That is one of the things that attracts us to them. It reminds us of a time when we were care free and not altered.

The emotions most of us have trouble suppressing are fear and anger. Retaining these two emotions and suppressing other emotions, imo, can have negative consequences. We are no longer whole and special like children.

I'm not advocating we eliminate anger or fear. Just the opposite. Anger is a useful emotion when it is channeled. It can be used to get us out of our malaise. Or it can propel others to take action, which is what you have done. Most people are mistaken when they presume that opening up our hearts makes us vulnerable. That isn't the case. Suppressing emotions ultimately is far worse, not only for individuals, but for societies as a whole. The shooter lacked the capacity to let out his anger. He snapped.

Nor am I advocating that we don't learn to be discerning about when we use our emotions. This is a world that is harsh and requires us to be selective at various times. What I am advocating is we learn to be in control of our emotions which is different than suppressing them.

Suppressing our emotions ultimately causes us to make impassioned decisions when dealing with people. Sometimes this is necessary. But in many cases, if we use our intellect without things like compassion or tenderness or love, and we let anger bubble through, we end up becoming argumentative or defensive, and then, when our ideas are attacked, we "feel" as if someone physically hit us in the gut. So the discussion ends up going away from the issue at hand and becomes a battleground to ensure our own personal needs are met.

As I said, feeling things can cause pain and most of us spend a lifetime figuring out ways to avoid our feelings so that we can no longer be hurt. The best thing you, or any of us who are so moved by these events, can do, is to take our anger and turn it into a positive thing by opening those emotions we have buried. As soon as we are able to, find the person who is most important in our lives and show that person unrestrained love. It will heal our hearts far more than the intellectual debate we undertake in these situations. That does not preclude discussion. That has to take place. It just means we start the healing process within ourselves that will enhance our abilities when we present our points of view during these discussions.
 
I've already heard the typical nonsense that guns don't kill people, people kill people. A couple of people told me they think the only way we can be safer as a society is to have more guns, one of them thinks we should arm and train all of our teachers. If having more guns would make us safer we would easily be the safest nation in the world. I can't talk to idiots like this anymore, all they do is bring anger and stress to me. Some people are hopeless, they will remain Ignorant and stupid their whole lives. I find that it's much better to focus on the hero's when tragedy strikes. In the face of the most evil possible we also see the best in humanity. Love, compassion and togetherness are the types of things that will help the community heal.
 
junglehusky said:
I think we as a society are capable of offering thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families, and carrying out a dialogue at the same time. Those who say "it's too soon" or "now is not the time" to talk about the issue are pushing a form of political correctness. Now is the perfect time to talk about it and decide what we are going to do about the problem as a nation, as tzznandrew and others are doing in this thread thoughtfully and with respect for the victims, without suppressing our personal emotions which are very relevant to the issue.
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I believe this is the first time in my life I've ever been accused of being among the PC crowd. I guess there's a first time for everything.
 
joober jones said:
I believe this is the first time in my life I've ever been accused of being among the PC crowd. I guess there's a first time for everything.
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If you hang around a crowd you learn to say the pc thing even if the crowd you hang around with loves sticking it to the pc bunch. Joining them in saying what they say would be the pc thing to say. It's just that no one in that group labels it that way.
 
superjohn said:
I've already heard the typical nonsense that guns don't kill people, people kill people. A couple of people told me they think the only way we can be safer as a society is to have more guns, one of them thinks we should arm and train all of our teachers. If having more guns would make us safer we would easily be the safest nation in the world. I can't talk to idiots like this anymore, all they do is bring anger and stress to me. Some people are hopeless, they will remain Ignorant and stupid their whole lives. I find that it's much better to focus on the hero's when tragedy strikes. In the face of the most evil possible we also see the best in humanity. Love, compassion and togetherness are the types of things that will help the community heal.
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If you think that calling responsible gun owners, many of us who have previously served in the military while responsibly handing, gasp, weapons, "ignorant and stupid" because we may agree with the statement mentioned, makes you sound like a knee jerk reactionary. The issue isn't rational responsible people owning guns.
 
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I said some of the gun rights people that I've talked to are stupid. These are the types of people that say "guns don't kill people, people kill people" and they think the only way we can limit our gun violence is to have more guns. These lines of thinking are incredibly stupid to me and I've come to the conclusion that there is no talking to these people. I don't know you or how you think but if you think along these lines, I would consider you a stupid person. I don't think all people that own guns are stupid and I've never said anything close to that.
 
superjohn said:
I said some of the gun rights people that I've talked to are stupid. These are the types of people that say "guns don't kill people, people kill people" and they think the only way we can limit our gun violence is to have more guns. These lines of thinking are incredibly stupid to me and I've come to the conclusion that there is no talking to these people. I don't know you or how you think but if you think along these lines, I would consider you a stupid person. I don't think all people that own guns are stupid and I've never said anything close to that.
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Fair enough, as I would consider anybody who thinks a tool, such and a gun has a mind of its own, and goes about killing someone, rather uninformed. I wouldn't call you stupid or ignorant, as you might be able to be educated. The horrible tragedy that happened is "one persons" fault, the person who planned and carried out the carnage. If you are going to blame the guns, why not call the car that he drove there a co-conspirator?
 
zls44 said:
State Police just confirmed that he had all of the firearms in the school. Including the Sig Sauer.
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The Sig is a pistol. The. 223 rifle was a Bushmaster. Neither can shoot 700 rounds in a minute.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
 
temery said:
2nd dumbest comment in 24 hours. Congrats.
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How so? I read it on a news site. ABC I believe.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
 
So let’s state the plain facts one more time, so that they can’t be mistaken: Gun massacres have happened many times in many countries, and in every other country, gun laws have been tightened to reflect the tragedy and the tragic knowledge of its citizens afterward. In every other country, gun massacres have subsequently become rare. In America alone, gun massacres, most often of children, happen with hideous regularity, and they happen with hideous regularity because guns are hideously and regularly available.

The people who fight and lobby and legislate to make guns regularly available are complicit in the murder of those children. They have made a clear moral choice: that the comfort and emotional reassurance they take from the possession of guns, placed in the balance even against the routine murder of innocent children, is of supreme value. Whatever satisfaction gun owners take from their guns—we know for certain that there is no prudential value in them—is more important than children’s lives. Give them credit: life is making moral choices, and that’s a moral choice, clearly made.

All of that is a truth, plain and simple, and recognized throughout the world. At some point, this truth may become so bloody obvious that we will know it, too. Meanwhile, congratulate yourself on living in the child-gun-massacre capital of the known universe.

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/12/newtown-and-the-madness-of-guns.html#ixzz2F9mLRInY
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fleudslipcon said:
If you hang around a crowd you learn to say the pc thing even if the crowd you hang around with loves sticking it to the pc bunch. Joining them in saying what they say would be the pc thing to say. It's just that no one in that group labels it that way.
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PC has always been around. There were always certain things that either camp never wanted to hear.
 
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upstater said:
PC has always been around. There were always certain things that either camp never wanted to hear.
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Yeah but one group has made it a point to put another group down by saying they are "pc". It was the pc thing to say and I would laugh every time I heard it because that group was totally unaware their cliche reaction was a pc reaction.
 
Dougsts said:
Fair enough, as I would consider anybody who thinks a tool, such and a gun has a mind of its own, and goes about killing someone, rather uninformed. I wouldn't call you stupid or ignorant, as you might be able to be educated. The horrible tragedy that happened is "one persons" fault, the person who planned and carried out the carnage. If you are going to blame the guns, why not call the car that he drove there a co-conspirator?
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From that type of logic, I now think you are a stupid person.
 
NOTaDIME said:
You're correct so what's your point? The drugs that kill people are illegal for the most part so what is your answer? Ban guns and all our problems will be solved? Just like with drugs right?
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There has to be stricter controls. Few are asking or expecting across the board bans.

Also, I love when pro gun people use the " drugs are illegal, and people still can get them" argument as they unwittingly walking into a good argument for making guns illegal.

If I offered 30 people on this board 10,000 dollars to prove they could purchase a gun pretty much all of you would be able to do so. Maybe a few would fail background check, but at least 25 of you would be successful.

If I made a similar offer of 10000 dollars to prove you could purchase a bag of heroin I promise that fewer than 5 of you would come back with heroin. Some of you will be arrested in the process, some will be outright robbed by a dealer, some will purchase what is advertised as a heroin, but isn't, and some of you will just be plain beaten down.

This is about harm reduction, and making it tougher for people to access these weapons. Which odds do you like better?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
superjohn said:
From the type of logic, I now think you are a stupid person.
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Not taking either side. His argument is used by critical thinkers everywhere. It is an argument of ad absurdum. Just read this word in an article today discussing one of the Supreme Court Justices arguments.
 
Dougsts said:
If you are going to blame the guns, why not call the car that he drove there a co-conspirator?
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There will always be people holding tight to their guns and using false logic like this to justify their moral choice that the comfort they get from their guns is more valuable than innocent children's lives. Yesterday I believed that the prevalence of this disgusting choice would continue to prevent more reasonable controls on access to the types of semi-automatic weapons used here and in other recent mass killings of innocents.

But I believe there is enough emotional capital now to overcome their choice and that perhaps it is no longer the majority. I believe that the majority of people in this country are ready to recognize that there is a better choice. Apparently the mother who obtained these guns legally was a survivalist who believed that arming herself to the teeth was necessary to protect her from some impending doomsday scenario. Like many, she failed to realize that in doing so, she dramatically increased the odds of her own death at the hand of her own weapons. It is my hope that enough people come to recognize all the fallacies being spouted that we can overcome the loud voices who continue to spout them with even louder voices calling for tighter controls.
 
By the way, the media has absolutely sucked throughout this whole thing. How about get the story correct instead of being first.
 
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