It's just so very sad

[upstater]

Latest is the 52 yr old mother/victim bought the guns legally and apparently let her sick, underage son have access to them.

So I don't know what gun laws would or reasonably could have prevented her from obtaining these? No realistic way to assign any blame, but why did she get manipulated to buy these and give him access? His brother was quoted as saying he had mental health issues.

Who could have remotely saw this I guess and hopefully as parents we always practice tough love when we consider things that can affect others.

One of these guns shoots 700 rounds in a minute.

 

[husky91]

Yes, so why did she buy and register these and give her son access?

Not that be couldn't have obtained guns elsewhere if he was really motivated to do what he did, but certainly easier when mom gets them for you or has them available.

One of these guns shoots 700 rounds in a minute.

 

[joober jones]

Since this horrific tragedy happened, I've heard countless people:
1. Use it as a chance to tout their anti gun philosophies
2. Pro-gun people thinking more about defending their position than the massive loss
3. Obama supporters using it to say "oh how much he loves and cares for us all"
4. Obama detractors using it to say "oh, he's just acting, none of his words are real"

The fact is 26 people (I'm not counting the shooter as human) had their lives snuffed out for no good reason and the damage done to their lives and the lives of their loved ones is irreparable. This is not a time for soapboxing. What we have on our hands is a situation too horrible for words and wounds that will never heal. Let's drop our petty arguments for a moment and pay our respects, whether through thought, prayer, or any other method possible to all of the victims of this needless travesty.

 

[suzyq]

EVERYBODY READ THIS RIGHT NOW:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/newtown-te...door-police-fearing-gunmans/story?id=17976299


This woman is a G-ddamn hero.

That is amazing Zach, thanks for sharing.

 

[cohenzone]

EVERYBODY READ THIS RIGHT NOW:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/newtown-te...door-police-fearing-gunmans/story?id=17976299


This woman is a G-ddamn hero.

Saw that interview. Amazing young woman. Maybe a few clips of her will stop the trashing of teachers nationally and the teachers will actually have more power in this country than the NRA. (I know, I know its the teachers unions, as if the unions aren't composed of teachers.) Teachers have one hell of a lot of responsibility beyond teaching ABCs. What a lesson this woman's students learned from her today along with a lot of the rest of us.

 

[bmayuc]

Yes, so why did she buy and register these and give her son access?

Not that be couldn't have obtained guns elsewhere if he was really motivated to do what he did, but certainly easier when mom gets them for you or has them available.

Which is really why these events are about the proliferation of guns. The more guns, legal or illegal, the higher the likelihood that lunatics can find them. Yes they were legally obtained. But once they are in private hands there is no telling the individual safety that each person uses or in this case, does not use.

Sick

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Fishy]

The fact is 26 people (I'm not counting the shooter as human) had their lives snuffed out for no good reason and the damage done to their lives and the lives of their loved ones is irreparable. This is not a time for soapboxing. What we have on our hands is a situation too horrible for words and wounds that will never heal. Let's drop our petty arguments for a moment and pay our respects, whether through thought, prayer, or any other method possible to all of the victims of this needless travesty.

With all due respect, no.

We always do the 'thoughts and prayers' nonsense and act like it helps - it doesn't.

Instead of thoughts and prayers and other absolutely meaningless gestures, how about we some address the issue of people walking into public places and killing other people?

If 26 people died eating bad tuna today, we'd swarm that problem with people, money and solutions...but because it's bullets and not tuna, we need to avoid soapboxes?

Why? Because some people like to think they actually need a gun like a Sig Sauer?

Sorry, no.

 

[rw005]

Why the hell is a Sig Sauer legal? what the heck are you going to do with it? Hunt some mutant animal? Give me a break...

If you love your kids, you would do anything to protect them even if it means teaching them to live in a world without guns or to live in a world where violence doesn't exist, sometimes you have to take the rose-colored glasses and wear them, this is one of those situations.

People need to start standing up to the NRA even more. I read posts on other sites that say teachers should be armed. Do you seriously think I'm going to trust my own kid to be in the class with a teacher, I don't know how that teacher is trained or just cheated to get a permit.

I'm posting this out of sheer disgust, don't take me very serious.

 

[superjohn]

So sick and tired of people saying now is not the time to talk about gun control. When the duck is it the time to talk about it?

 

[ctchamps]

Gun violence in Britain has skyrocketed? Well, I suppose you could say that. They had 41 deaths due to gun-related violence last year, and their low water mark was eight. So yeah, maybe that is a "skyrocket" - mathematically speaking - it's over a 500 percent increase. But if you are using that as an argument against gun control, you're doing it wrong.

Norway, which had its own horrific massacre a couple of years ago and has strict gun laws, had two gun-related deaths last year. Two. The USA had more people die by toppling vending machines on themselves.

Banning all guns will never work, and realistically, that shouldn't be a motivation for anyone seeking legislative change. Between hunters and folks who just feel safer with a gun in their bedstand, there's room in a free society for responsible adults to have them. But there has to be something in between an all-out ban and where we are now, where our peer group, gun-related death wise, is Mexico, Venezuela, Honduras, and the Phillipines, and any whacko can easily get automatic weapons. Even the Norwegian whacko got his ammo from us.

The US is similar to the Philippines but 1/2 as bad as Mexico and 1/10 as bad as Honduras, Venezuela and El Salvador. Of course no way of knowing the accuracy of reporting in a lot of countries. This link gives a 2010 map for homicides. Just click a country to see the homicide #'s/100,000.

http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

From that map showing 2010 numbers, the US has 5.2 homicides per hundred thousand. In the same year GB had 1.57/100,000. In 2009 the homicide rate was slightly higher with 5.5/100,000 with 16,799 deaths. That put homicides ranking 15th in cause of death. BTW, firearm homicides were 3.7/100,000 (11,493 deaths) so we managed to still kill each other 1.8/100,000 (5,306 deaths) with things other than bullets and that number was greater than any European country's death #'s/100,000 until you reach Serbia or Belarus. So we're a more violent nation than most of Europe even if we didn't have guns. By comparison there were 36,963 traffic fatalities in 2009 of which 1/3 involved speeding and 1/3 involved at least one driver with blood alcohol levels high enough for impairment. Of course the drunk could be innocent. CDC 2009 mortality report can be found in following link:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm The final data numbers (there is a link) have tables showing causes of death for various races, genders and age groups. The US, as to be expected, has a wide variation in causes of death within it's population.

I would have to say I was somewhat surprised that the numbers were lower than I expected. I had the impression the world was a lot more violent than I observed. When it comes to violence Africa leads the way followed by Central and South America. Africa has many varied reasons for it's violence. Central and South America probably does as well but one thing stands out and that is many of the countries in these two regions with high violence have serious problems with drugs. I didn't read all the threads but I'm not sure if the drug issue was discussed when considering homicides.

I wouldn't go to Iceland. They had zero homicides in 2010.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Not that it really matters, but were talking about semi automatic weapons. Automatic weapons in this country were made illegal in the 80's I think.

Try1934 instead

 

[tzznandrew]

The fact is 26 people (I'm not counting the shooter as human) had their lives snuffed out for no good reason and the damage done to their lives and the lives of their loved ones is irreparable. This is not a time for soapboxing. What we have on our hands is a situation too horrible for words and wounds that will never heal. Let's drop our petty arguments for a moment and pay our respects, whether through thought, prayer, or any other method possible to all of the victims of this needless travesty.

Why is it the case that we cannot both think of solutions and feel deeply empathetic?

A bunch of kindergarteners died. It's terrible. It's the worse thing that's happened in the US in years. We have a right to be pissed off.

It's not "soapboxing" to say we need to fix the problem, whatever that problem may be.

And part of the problem--one among many, but among the most pressing and probably the easiest to deal with--is the availability of the type of weapons used today.

 

[husky91]

I agree, think guns are stupid and uneccessary, and own none. But unless you can waive a magic wand and eradicate everyone of these all these decisions are difficult.

Supposedly CT has some of the strictest gun laws anywhere, but not enough when a seemingly responsible mature adult buys guns legally and her disturbed son has access to these.

 

[tzznandrew]

I agree, think guns are stupid and uneccessary, and own none. But unless you can waive a magic wand and eradicate everyone of these all these decisions are difficult.

Supposedly CT has some of the strictest gun laws anywhere, but not enough when a seemingly responsible mature adult buys guns legally and her disturbed son has access to these.

Right, so a legal gun was bought. And we're saying that specific type of gun should be illegal.

This doesn't seem that hard on its face.

There are a lot of difficult questions out there. And again, we shouldn't rush into over broad, poorly written laws. But we can ask ourselves why the this gun was legal other than to kill other people, and ask ourselves if, as a society, this type of weapon is something we want every Tom, Dick, and Harry to have access to with relative ease.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Why the hell is a Sig Sauer legal? what the heck are you going to do with it? Hunt some mutant animal? Give me a break...

If you love your kids, you would do anything to protect them even if it means teaching them to live in a world without guns or to live in a world where violence doesn't exist, sometimes you have to take the rose-colored glasses and wear them, this is one of those situations.

People need to start standing up to the NRA even more. I read posts on other sites that say teachers should be armed. Do you seriously think I'm going to trust my own kid to be in the class with a teacher, I don't know how that teacher is trained or just cheated to get a permit.

I'm posting this out of sheer disgust, don't take me very serious.

I own one. It's an ordinary pistol. Doesn't get much more basic. It's just one brand among many.

 

[rw005]

I own one. It's an ordinary pistol. Doesn't get much more basic. It's just one brand among many.

I meant the SIG 556, my mistake for not being clear.

 

[tzznandrew]

I meant the SIG 556, my mistake for not being clear.

 

[joober jones]

With all due respect, no.

We always do the 'thoughts and prayers' nonsense and act like it helps - it doesn't.

Instead of thoughts and prayers and other absolutely meaningless gestures, how about we some address the issue of people walking into public places and killing other people?

If 26 people died eating bad tuna today, we'd swarm that problem with people, money and solutions...but because it's bullets and not tuna, we need to avoid soapboxes?

Why? Because some people like to think they actually need a gun like a Sig Sauer?

Sorry, no.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but there's nothing wrong with stopping for a minute and paying respects to the dead and the loved ones left behind.

 

[tzznandrew]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but there's nothing wrong with stopping for a minute and paying respects to the dead and the loved ones left behind.

Who is arguing otherwise? Who has suggested that they feel anything other than intense, deep, existential pain for what has happened?

Fishy's point is fair: why is it okay to say "Never Again" about terrorism, but shrug our shoulders a week after another shooting.

No one is saying the answers are easy. They're hard. But our politicians--and our citizens--have been too cowardly, or too unconcerned, to try to adequately address them.

We can mourn, and, at the same time, try to figure out how to minimize the chances of this ever happening again. These aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[joober jones]

Why is it the case that we cannot both think of solutions and feel deeply empathetic?

A bunch of kindergarteners died. It's ****ing terrible. It's the worse thing that's happened in the US in ****ing years. We have a right to be ****ing pissed off.

It's not "soapboxing" to say we need to fix the problem, whatever that problem may be.

And part of the problem--one among many, but among the most pressing and probably the easiest to deal with--is the availability of the type of weapons used today.

I'm not saying we can't think of solutions. My point is that it's wrong to try to use something like this to seize your opportunity to promote your given philosophy and put pride and prejudice before people. Yes, there is room for debate and actions must be taken to attempt to stop these kinds of things from happening, but if your initial gut reaction is to spout politics rather than feel sorrow and sympathy, something is wrong. (I'm not accusing anyone here of this by the way. I wasn't with any of you when you first heard about the situation.)

 

[selles]

Why? Because some people like to think they actually need a gun like a Sig Sauer?

No, because 20 5-6 year olds just got shot point-blank so many times that they couldn't even get the families in to try and identify them today, and the emotional enormity of processing that depravity makes it hard to deal with reading arguments back and forth about anything. I believe that's joober's point.

I say that as someone who agrees with your initial post in all respects. But I believe that joober's point is valid too.

 

[joober jones]

Who is arguing otherwise? Who has suggested that they feel anything other than intense, deep, existential pain for what has happened?

Fishy's point is fair: why is it okay to say "Never Again" about terrorism, but shrug our shoulders a week after another shooting.

No one is saying the answers are easy. They're hard. But our politicians--and our citizens--have been too cowardly, or too unconcerned, to try to adequately address them.

We can mourn, and, at the same time, try to figure out how to minimize the chances of this ever happening again. These aren't mutually exclusive.

Something about the "thoughts and prayers nonsense" line rubbed me the wrong way. But hell, if I wanted to be stroked, I'd be at a massage parlor.

 

[ctchamps]

Since this horrific tragedy happened, I've heard countless people:
1. Use it as a chance to tout their anti gun philosophies
2. Pro-gun people thinking more about defending their position than the massive loss
3. Obama supporters using it to say "oh how much he loves and cares for us all"
4. Obama detractors using it to say "oh, he's just acting, none of his words are real"

The fact is 26 people (I'm not counting the shooter as human) had their lives snuffed out for no good reason and the damage done to their lives and the lives of their loved ones is irreparable. This is not a time for soapboxing. What we have on our hands is a situation too horrible for words and wounds that will never heal. Let's drop our petty arguments for a moment and pay our respects, whether through thought, prayer, or any other method possible to all of the victims of this needless travesty.

I don't get the impression you're taking political sides or are asking people to not express their suggestions on the best way to stop violence. You feel they skipped step one by not publicly expressing their respects for the victims before jumping to finding solutions. Given that someone posted in this thread he personally knows someone in the shootings it would have been nice if people noticed his request and acknowledged him. Otherwise I believe most people already went through the process of feeling for the victims before coming to the Boneyard and that is why they jumped to step 2. Emotions are running strong over this event so I expect people to vent even if the venting is directed at innocent commentary.

 

[jleves]

I've done almost nothing today but listen, read and watch about his horrific tragedy today.

First of all, grieving, honoring, praying or whatever you do to make yourself feel better and talking about solutions are not mutually exclusive. They can be done at the same time. In fact, delaying by even a day discussing and trying to find solution is the most disrespectful thing you can do for the families who have lost innocent children or wives or brothers or sisters. Every day that you delay dealing with the problem is another day children, your loved ones and my loved ones are at risk. The conversation should have been started years ago and shouldn't be delayed any further - not even by a day to mourn or grieve.

There have been times in my life when I have felt like I missed out on not having kids of my own. Today isn't one of them. I can't imagine those of you who will send off your little ones to school on Monday and how there won't be moment when you don't worry and you cannot protect them. I do not envy you that event.

There's no reason to spout my ideas on guns and gun control. They don't matter. And frankly the issues we face go far beyond gun control. No matter where you stand on the issue, as many have stated, there are other ways to effect evil and death on others. It goes way beyond guns, not that the simple matter of gun access should not be addressed.

As horrific as this event is, hopefully it generates some actual discussion and change to address all the issues that are involved to make such a tragedy come to fruition.