It's come down to this for the Lady Vols

[Bayareahusky]

I think bayareahusky made an awkward statement that came out wrong. He was saying that if we said the same stuff about someone at Tennessee here on the Boneyard that they were saying about Geno on the Summitt, it wouldn't be tolerated. I think. It would be very atypical of him to dis Geno.

Oh geez, i just realized that maybe yes i may have been misunderstood..... that whole paragraph I was using "Tennessee speak" ya probably came out wrong..... Apologies

 

[Gus Mahler]

Oh geez, i just realized that maybe yes i may have been misunderstood..... that whole paragraph I was using "Tennessee speak" ya probably came out wrong..... Apologies

You don't owe anyone an apology. It was clear what you were doing.

 

[jerlis]

With Maya and her mom sitting in FRONT ROW seats, right behind the UConn bench; as the TV cameras cut away to them about 50 times during the telecast. A postgame interview with Maya and Mom (after interviews w/ Geno and whoever was the player of the game) would be "must see" TV, and a nice way to conclude a broadcast. THAT would be an interview UConn Nation would want to see. That reminds me of an old standard sung by Tony Bennett.

The song is: "I wanna be around".
One of the lines is "and that's when I'll discover that revenge is sweet,
As I sit there applaudin' from a front-row seat. When somebody breaks your heart, Like you, like you broke mine .

I can't begin to imagine the emotions that would consume Maya and Mom if this scenario were to happen. I'm starting to choke up just thinking about it. As we all know, revenge is a dish best served cold. We can only wish.

I have been following women's college basketball since 1990 and I always thought Pat Summit was a great coach and a coach with integrity. Has anyone considered the possibility that her accusations against UConn were a result of paranoia associated with Alzheimer's disease, It is not uncommon with the disease. Also, at the time those accusations were made she was still pretty much all powerful at the U of Tenn and a force within the SEC. It hardly seems strange then that the University and the conference followed through with a formal complaint. I for one don't believe there was any actual malice on Pat's part. It was the disease speaking but at the time no one knew that.

 

[choochoo]

Disagree. Schadenfreude about a rival, even one who has faded into irrelevancy, is an express exemption to the Karma rules.

I am with you. The more they suffer the better I feel. UT and the wbb program were complete assholes back in the day. Period!

 

[choochoo]

I have been following women's college basketball since 1990 and I always thought Pat Summit was a great coach and a coach with integrity. Has anyone considered the possibility that her accusations against UConn were a result of paranoia associated with Alzheimer's disease, It is not uncommon with the disease. Also, at the time those accusations were made she was still pretty much all powerful at the U of Tenn and a force within the SEC. It hardly seems strange then that the University and the conference followed through with a formal complaint. I for one don't believe there was any actual malice on Pat's part. It was the disease speaking but at the time no one knew that.

But still no admission or apology even from Holly?

 

[toadfoot]

I have been following women's college basketball since 1990 and I always thought Pat Summit was a great coach and a coach with integrity. Has anyone considered the possibility that her accusations against UConn were a result of paranoia associated with Alzheimer's disease, It is not uncommon with the disease. Also, at the time those accusations were made she was still pretty much all powerful at the U of Tenn and a force within the SEC. It hardly seems strange then that the University and the conference followed through with a formal complaint. I for one don't believe there was any actual malice on Pat's part. It was the disease speaking but at the time no one knew that.

Sorry, no sale. First of all, the allegations occurred well before Summitt was diagnosed (Tennessee made the complaint in 2006 and Summitt was diagnosed in 2011), so it's doubtful her illness played a role, but more importantly there were plenty of other people, assistant coaches, AD staff, university officials and even officials of the SEC who could, and should have stepped in and stopped the witch hunt. None of them did. Everyone from the UT staff all the way to the SEC were complicit and every one of them, including current coach Holly Warlick owe all the individuals involved, as well as the University of Connecticut an apology. Until that happens I'd be perfectly happy to see UT lose every game they play.

 

[Bayareahusky]

You don't owe anyone an apology. It was clear what you were doing.

Thanks Gus!

 

[Zorro]

OK, one more time. It is wrong to conflate the piss-ant penny ante "37 theses" or however many actual formal charges were filed; Kibs' sign, ESPNgate, etc., which did not really amount to much, with the real outrage, which was the innuendo that Geno had somehow committed some recruiting crime that was simply too dark and dastardly for decent people to even mention, especially an innocent lady like PHS, and was so nefarious that it left her no choice but to cancel the series. It was this latter that was inexcusable, and has led to all of the outrageous speculation among LV fans as to just what that outrage might have been. Pink elephants, outright bribery, town houses, etc. ad nauseum. She would not say what the misbehavior was; "Geno knows what he did", nor would she admit that what he actually did was nothing.

That said, I think that Jerlis may be right about the role of the oncoming mental problem in the whole thing. But maybe not. PHS said something off the top of her head about what should be done to coaches who break the rules, probably thinking about the situation that was roiling UT at the time, and when she realized that her statement sounded disloyal to her own school, and deeply resenting Geno's having signed Maya, she spun what she had said into an accusation against UConn. When she was pressed for details, she could not, of course, supply them because there weren't any. But she could not face the embarrassment of saying so, so she had to go on with the innuendo of unspecified dark doings, and she did. There is no way to know whether she was totally herself when this happened, and it really doesn't matter, because the entire UT structure bought into the innuendo, making all of them accessories. No one had the temerity to say what they probably knew; that the whole thing was a PHS screw-up. Which is what it actually was. And it has come to pass that UT is the one who has suffered, not UConn. UConn is doing just fine, and UT is now one with LaTech and Old Dominion.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Who's 'we'? You have a mouse in your pocket?

2nd time in a WEEK that I have heard that phrase (never before in my nearly 50 yrs of life)... learn something new every day. I had to look up its origin (still found nothing concrete, Tonto?)

 

[diggerfoot]

Sorry, no sale. First of all, the allegations occurred well before Summitt was diagnosed (Tennessee made the complaint in 2006 and Summitt was diagnosed in 2011), so it's doubtful her illness played a role, but more importantly there were plenty of other people, assistant coaches, AD staff, university officials and even officials of the SEC who could, and should have stepped in and stopped the witch hunt. None of them did. Everyone from the UT staff all the way to the SEC were complicit and every one of them, including current coach Holly Warlick owe all the individuals involved, as well as the University of Connecticut an apology. Until that happens I'd be perfectly happy to see UT lose every game they play.

I'll correct this yet again; not for Summitt's or Tennessee's sake, but for the general sake of people's brain health. Being diagnosed in 2011, Summitt could have been showing paranoia derived from Alzheimer's in 2006 ... or earlier. To keep dismissing this (folks in general) for the sake of a good outrage is to risk your (folks in general) own brain health in two ways: ignorance of the symptoms and fueling needless angst. The beauty of being UConn fans is there really should be very little to be upset about, which is good for brain health.

 

[JordyG]

Good one Jordy, I've never heard (read) that one before. I'll have to file it away for future use.

All mine. You have my permission.

 

[msf22b]

I must admit to not being around when all this happened
And it sounds pretty terrible.
But we have forgiven Japan for Pearl Harbor.
Twenty years ago, there were fears that the US was to become an economic colony of theirs.
I remember a much celebrated piece in the Times by James Reston
About our war aims in WWII ending with how (ultimately) we had lost.

Goodness, we've all but forgiven (at least made our peace) with the holocaust; certainly (most) don't blame the current crop of Germans for that, even the majority of Jews, I know my parent's gen had big problems with that.

It's time for the grownups and intelligentsia on the various boards (and the intellectual level here is immense) to suck it up, understand that forgiveness is a very positive emotion, good for one's soul and to drop this hatred from a bygone era. No matter how dastardly their actions, we prevailed, they are on the verge of losing everything, It is time to forgive and move on.

In the business world, these things happen all the time...happened to me....at a major, major foundation meeting one of the finest most, respected instrumentalists in the city gave (behind closed doors) a 15-minute diatribe, dedicated to my evils and untrustfulness. It went a long way towards torpedoing my career in town. It came from nowhere, was for the most part completely untrue, did incalculable harm. Why did it so unexpectedly occur?...Because, despite his wonderful playing, we had discovered an even greater artist for the position he held, and had started the process whereby he would be ultimately replaced. Now, decades later, the anger and frustration which he had carried inside for years finally had a forum to express itself in torpedoing my organization (unsuccessful), and me personally (did better at that).

At the time, I was shocked, dismayed. After I left the organization (hardly voluntarily), that I founded and single-handidly made into one of the finest of its type in town, I went on with my life, prospered in new challenges, and can say with great honesty that I have no malice towards him, no regrets for the disruption it caused, respect his wonderful playing, and if I were to be given the opportunity to engage the young artist who replaced him and went on to be one of the 3 or 4 Maya Moore types around whom you build a team, I would do it again. Even knowing the consequences.

And most importantly, for many years I have been able to greed this gentleman amicably, without rancor. It's over it happened, move on.

In the case of UConn, Geno and Maya prevailed, the team never skipped a beat...oh, we may have missed out on a recruit or two for a season or two, didn't win every single championship (would have if EDD would have stayed) but Pat's slander was of no consequence. did as much harm to her as us. UConn is yet, more dominant than it was.

it is really past due to bury the hatchet on this one and give those guys a break....For our own sakes if not theirs.

 

[CL82]

I must admit to not being around when all this happened
And it sounds pretty terrible.
But we have forgiven Japan for Pearl Harbor.
Twenty years ago, there were fears that the US was to become an economic colony of theirs.
I remember a much celebrated piece in the Times by James Reston
About our war aims in WWII ending with how (ultimately) we had lost.

Goodness, we've all but forgiven (at least made our peace) with the holocaust; certainly (most) don't blame the current crop of Germans for that, even the majority of Jews, I know my parent's gen had big problems with that.

It's time for the grownups and intelligentsia on the various boards (and the intellectual level here is immense) to suck it up, understand that forgiveness is a very positive emotion, good for one's soul and to drop this hatred from a bygone era. No matter how dastardly their actions, we prevailed, they are on the verge of losing everything, It is time to forgive and move on.

In the business world, these things happen all the time...happened to me....at a major, major foundation meeting one of the finest most, respected instrumentalists in the city gave (behind closed doors) a 15-minute diatribe, dedicated to my evils and untrustfulness. It went a long way towards torpedoing my career in town. It came from nowhere, was for the most part completely untrue, did incalculable harm. Why did it so unexpectedly occur?...Because, despite his wonderful playing, we had discovered an even greater artist for the position he held, and had started the process whereby he would be ultimately replaced. Now, decades later, the anger and frustration which he had carried inside for years finally had a forum to express itself in torpedoing my organization (unsuccessful), and me personally (did better at that).

At the time, I was shocked, dismayed. After I left the organization (hardly voluntarily), that I founded and single-handidly made into one of the finest of its type in town, I went on with my life, prospered in new challenges, and can say with great honesty that I have no malice towards him, no regrets for the disruption it caused, respect his wonderful playing, and if I were to be given the opportunity to engage the young artist who replaced him and went on to be one of the 3 or 4 Maya Moore types around whom you build a team, I would do it again. Even knowing the consequences.

And most importantly, for many years I have been able to greed this gentleman amicably, without rancor. It's over it happened, move on.

In the case of UConn, Geno and Maya prevailed, the team never skipped a beat...oh, we may have missed out on a recruit or two for a season or two, didn't win every single championship (would have if EDD would have stayed) but Pat's slander was of no consequence. did as much harm to her as us. UConn is yet, more dominant than it was.

it is really past due to bury the hatchet on this one and give those guys a break....For our own sakes if not theirs.

TLDR: Yes, Tennessee launched a slimy trail of innuendo, libel and slander to try to destroy UConn via the court of public opinion when they could not do so on the basketball court but they failed, so all should be forgiven.

BY answer: Sure. The healing can begin right after that acknowledgement of the act and the apology.

 

[trb123]

TLDR: Yes, Tennessee launched a slimy trail of innuendo, libel and slander to try to destroy UConn via the court of public opinion when they could not do so on the basketball court but they failed, so all should be forgiven.

BY answer: Sure. The healing can begin right after that acknowledgement of the act and the apology.

The healing can begin right after acknowledgement of the act, disclosure of the roles of various individual actors and the apology.

 

[DaddyChoc]

I must admit to not being around when all this happened
And it sounds pretty terrible.
But we have forgiven Japan for Pearl Harbor.
Twenty years ago, there were fears that the US was to become an economic colony of theirs.
I remember a much celebrated piece in the Times by James Reston
About our war aims in WWII ending with how (ultimately) we had lost.

Goodness, we've all but forgiven (at least made our peace) with the holocaust; certainly (most) don't blame the current crop of Germans for that, even the majority of Jews, I know my parent's gen had big problems with that.

It's time for the grownups and intelligentsia on the various boards (and the intellectual level here is immense) to suck it up, understand that forgiveness is a very positive emotion, good for one's soul and to drop this hatred from a bygone era. No matter how dastardly their actions, we prevailed, they are on the verge of losing everything, It is time to forgive and move on.

In the business world, these things happen all the time...happened to me....at a major, major foundation meeting one of the finest most, respected instrumentalists in the city gave (behind closed doors) a 15-minute diatribe, dedicated to my evils and untrustfulness. It went a long way towards torpedoing my career in town. It came from nowhere, was for the most part completely untrue, did incalculable harm. Why did it so unexpectedly occur?...Because, despite his wonderful playing, we had discovered an even greater artist for the position he held, and had started the process whereby he would be ultimately replaced. Now, decades later, the anger and frustration which he had carried inside for years finally had a forum to express itself in torpedoing my organization (unsuccessful), and me personally (did better at that).

At the time, I was shocked, dismayed. After I left the organization (hardly voluntarily), that I founded and single-handidly made into one of the finest of its type in town, I went on with my life, prospered in new challenges, and can say with great honesty that I have no malice towards him, no regrets for the disruption it caused, respect his wonderful playing, and if I were to be given the opportunity to engage the young artist who replaced him and went on to be one of the 3 or 4 Maya Moore types around whom you build a team, I would do it again. Even knowing the consequences.

And most importantly, for many years I have been able to greed this gentleman amicably, without rancor. It's over it happened, move on.

In the case of UConn, Geno and Maya prevailed, the team never skipped a beat...oh, we may have missed out on a recruit or two for a season or two, didn't win every single championship (would have if EDD would have stayed) but Pat's slander was of no consequence. did as much harm to her as us. UConn is yet, more dominant than it was.

it is really past due to bury the hatchet on this one and give those guys a break....For our own sakes if not theirs.

geesh, finally... I agree with your whole post

 

[HuskyNan]

2nd time in a WEEK that I have heard that phrase (never before in my nearly 50 yrs of life)... learn something new every day. I had to look up its origin (still found nothing concrete, Tonto?)

My husband's family says it all the time and has since I first met him. Just and old saying, I guess.

 

[HuskyNan]

OK, one more time. It is wrong to conflate the piss-ant penny ante "37 theses" or however many actual formal charges were filed; Kibs' sign, ESPNgate, etc., which did not really amount to much, with the real outrage, which was the innuendo that Geno had somehow committed some recruiting crime that was simply too dark and dastardly for decent people to even mention, especially an innocent lady like PHS, and was so nefarious that it left her no choice but to cancel the series. It was this latter that was inexcusable, and has led to all of the outrageous speculation among LV fans as to just what that outrage might have been. Pink elephants, outright bribery, town houses, etc. ad nauseum. She would not say what the misbehavior was; "Geno knows what he did", nor would she admit that what he actually did was nothing.

That said, I think that Jerlis may be right about the role of the oncoming mental problem in the whole thing. But maybe not. PHS said something off the top of her head about what should be done to coaches who break the rules, probably thinking about the situation that was roiling UT at the time, and when she realized that her statement sounded disloyal to her own school, and deeply resenting Geno's having signed Maya, she spun what she had said into an accusation against UConn. When she was pressed for details, she could not, of course, supply them because there weren't any. But she could not face the embarrassment of saying so, so she had to go on with the innuendo of unspecified dark doings, and she did. There is no way to know whether she was totally herself when this happened, and it really doesn't matter, because the entire UT structure bought into the innuendo, making all of them accessories. No one had the temerity to say what they probably knew; that the whole thing was a PHS screw-up. Which is what it actually was. And it has come to pass that UT is the one who has suffered, not UConn. UConn is doing just fine, and UT is now one with LaTech and Old Dominion.

Thus, Summitt's comment last week -- which, frankly, really surprised many people because she had steadfastly avoided the topic -- has riled up UConn fans. They feel that if Summitt has actual evidence of Auriemma and his program breaking recruiting rules -- beyond that realistically inconsequential secondary violation -- then she needs to explain what that is.

Saying, "There's a reason we don't play them," in the context of a discussion about recruiting integrity is a direct but utterly vague accusation. By leaving it so open-ended, it allows people to assume -- or at least consider -- the worst. That's not fair to Auriemma, his program or the university.

Pat Summitt's words fuel fire, ESPN

For me, personally, the worst actions were those that directly affected human beings, not programs or institutions. Poor Kibitzer, an elderly combat veteran, was raked over the coals for handing a freaking cardboard sign to Ernie DelleDonne - from his wheelchair. I will NEVER forgive that. Sue and Diana's reputations were impugned but it was Maya and her mom who were called vile names by the Tin Foil Hat Brigade and that was most unforgivable.

I wrote a lot more but deleted it. While it's good to bring out the smelly laundry once in a while to air it out, I'd rather not leave it on display permanently. This topic remains open, but for me, I'm done.

 

[Zorro]

So are the LV!

 

[Bestiarius]

Goodness, we've all but forgiven (at least made our peace) with the holocaust; certainly (most) don't blame the current crop of Germans for that, even the majority of Jews

The difference here is that Germany and the German people have apologized and made reparations for Third Reich war crimes. The current crop of Tennessee administrators and fans have not made amends, and worse, continue to perpetuate the unsubstantiated innuendos.

 

[bags27]

The difference here is that Germany and the German people have apologized and made reparations for Third Reich war crimes. The current crop of Tennessee administrators and fans have not made amends, and worse, continue to perpetuate the unsubstantiated innuendos.

wow...I have made a lot of inappropriate comparisons in my life, Bestiarius, so I fully appreciate how that happens.....

 

[Bayareahusky]

The difference here is that Germany and the German people have apologized and made reparations for Third Reich war crimes. The current crop of Tennessee administrators and fans have not made amends, and worse, continue to perpetuate the unsubstantiated innuendos.

Ya not to expand on a subject that many avoid.,.... but having been to Germany several times in the last few years, I admire the way they have acknowledged and apologized profusely for atrocities that are in no way defendable..... at least the country has done that

as opposed to a country in Asia in same war that to this day still denies much of what happened as to their chronology and related aggression

and of course ..... as opposed to the deafening silence from down south regarding ANYTHING substantive regarding what happened 10 years ago..... Rumors and innuendo, yes, but nothing but speculative noise and amplified crosstalk

 

[connboy77]

I use to be a Tennessee hater, but not now; it is extremely difficult to hate a 12 and 8 team!

 

[CL82]

My husband's family says it all the time and has since I first met him. Just and old saying, I guess.

Yeah, I've heard it just a bit differently: "Do you have a mouse in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?" Must be a regional difference, I guess.

 

[EricLA]

I use to be a Tennessee hater, but not now; it is extremely difficult to hate a 12 and 8 team!

Not for me...

 

[JoePgh]

If Holly resigns or is fired after this season, and a new head coach is hired who was nowhere near Knoxville or even the SEC at the time that these events occurred, would that be enough for you hardliners to bury the hatchet?

At some point, shouldn't the interests of current fans and (completely innocent) players on both teams in seeing or playing a good game of basketball take precedence over the pursuit of these hoary feuds?

While the University of Tennessee did have a role in what happened, I get the sense from the tone and content of many hardliner posts that a major part of the impetus for their position is the behavior of fans on message boards rather than the behavior of the University itself. In my opinion, that should be completely irrelevant, not to mention insignificant.