Is Sabrina the G.O.A.T? | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Is Sabrina the G.O.A.T?

Is Sabrina the G.O.A.T?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 10.5%

  • No.

    Votes: 132 76.7%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 22 12.8%
  • Total voters
    172
Status
Not open for further replies.
Bit premature to announce clean sweep since the oldest NPOY award, the Honda Sports Award for basketball, hasn't been announced yet. It's been given out since 1977. Stewart is the only 3 time recipient. Gustafsen won it last year and I am sure Sabrina will get it this year as she is one of the 4 finalists nominated by the WBCA. The winner is chosen by the votes of administrators from every NCAA member institution, with each institution having one vote.

The first time the Wooden award was given to a woman player was 2004. Since then the players to get all 5 awards (Wade, AP, Naismith, USBWA, & Honda) in the same year have been Augustus in 2005 as a junior (missed it as a senior since Latta got the USBWA), Maya as a senior in 2011, Griner as a junior in 2012, Stewart twice as a jr/sr (15/16), Plum in 2017, and Wilson in 2018. the only two times that a player got the 1st 4 and didn't get the Honda were 2009 when Maya had 4, but her teammate Renee Mongomery beat her out for the Honda and Griner's senior year when EDD beat her out for the Honda Award.

Also if Sabrina gets the Honda Award she will join only Maya and Breanna to have those 5 awards plus the Senior Class Award which has been given out since 2002 when Sue Bird got the inaugural Senior award. As noted Augustus and Griner missed their clean sweep in their senior year. Augustus got the 2006 Senior award, but EDD did beat out Griner in 2013 like she did for the Honda. Also surprisingly Oregon State's Wiese beat out Plum for the 2017 Senior award and Gabby Williams beat out Aja Wilson in 2018. Also since the espnW NPOY has only been given out since 2014 (from what I can tell), only Breanna and Sabrina would get all 7 awards if Sabrina takes home the Honda. Then it's a clean sweep.
 
Before I start, I think Sabrina Ionescu is a heck of a ball player....But what I see is a very overrated player. She was fortunate to goto a program where winning was not as big a priority as it would be at another program. Yes she had many triple doubles,,,but that always appeared to be the only thing she strived for, She played for a coach who kept her in games that were blow outs for the express reason to get the triple double. Like Larry Bird said, if I knew it was such a big deal to get a triple double I would have gotten more. Diana was championship driven so was Maya and Briana...stats were always secondary. Maybe Im crazy to think this way...I just never saw her as the greatest player. More into stats then anything else...UCONN hasn't won a championship inquire a few years, perect opportunity to win one..how many does she have? I also think when she gets to the WNBA her lack of athletic ability will be exposed.....
 
jjsinct said:
Before I start, I think Sabrina Ionescu is a heck of a ball player....But what I see is a very overrated player. She was fortunate to goto a program where winning was not as big a priority as it would be at another program. Yes she had many triple doubles,,,but that always appeared to be the only thing she strived for, She played for a coach who kept her in games that were blow outs for the express reason to get the triple double. Like Larry Bird said, if I knew it was such a big deal to get a triple double I would have gotten more. Diana was championship driven so was Maya and Briana...stats were always secondary. Maybe Im crazy to think this way...I just never saw her as the greatest player. More into stats then anything else...UCONN hasn't won a championship inquire a few years, perect opportunity to win one..how many does she have? I also think when she gets to the WNBA her lack of athletic ability will be exposed.....
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Really!...So I guess you don't respect HOF coaches like Geno and Tara who sung her praises after she led her team to record wins over their top 5 teams on their floor. Or I guess you think UConn legends Sue Bird and Diana Taurasi who were massively respectful of her game after she led the Duck team to beat Team USA convincingly, something that only Tennessee had done years ago. How about the comments by UConn legend Rebecca Lobo about Sabrina when she was the analyst for some of their big wins this year on ESPN (Stanford, UConn, & Oregon State). She compared Sabrina to DT. Plus Kobe, Lebron, and Steph Curry have sung her praises, but they probably know less about basketball than you.

If you actually watched any Duck games this year she didn't stay in games to stuff her stat sheet. She played 7% less minutes per game than last seasons and yet she increased her assists/game by over 10% and rebounds per game by over 16% while still scoring 17.5 pts per game and matching her national season record (men or woman) of 8 triple doubles she did her junior year. That year wasn't too shabby considering she also won the Wooden & Naismith POY and led her team to the Final 4 for the first time ever. As for Sabrina herself her only stat she cared about was winning or how many turnovers she had which she hates. Her stats came in the flow of the game and she was a joy to watch.

I understand UConn folks think Sabrina should have had a national championship, but not a single UConn legend did what Sabrina did for her school when it comes to winning, which was lead a team which hadn't been to the NCAA tourney for 15 years to two straight Elite 8's her Freshman & Sophomore years, then their 1st Final 4 last year. Everyone expected them to be a 1 seed this year for the 1st time ever and get to the Final 4. Vegas odds had them winning it all, but the games weren't played so she can't count that championship for the ultimate "unfinished business". As for the WNBA, we'll see how she does. Still my guess when the Liberty make her #1 overall and Under Armour or Nike sign her to the richest shoe deal for a rookie coming out of college, those folks probably don't think she's "overrated".
 
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jjsinct said:
She was fortunate to goto a program where winning was not as big a priority as it would be at another program.
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What are you talking about? Ionescu's 4 years at Oregon are by far and away the best in school history. Yeah, winning wasn't a priority at all.
 
domerduck said:
I understand UConn folks think Sabrina should have had a national championship, but not a single UConn legend did what Sabrina did for her school when it comes to winning, which was lead a team which hadn't been to the NCAA tourney for 15 years to two straight Elite 8's her Freshman & Sophomore years, then their 1st Final 4 last year. Everyone expected them to be a 1 seed this year for the 1st time ever and get to the Final 4. Vegas odds had them winning it all, but the games weren't played so she can't count that championship for the ultimate "unfinished business". As for the WNBA, we'll see how she does. Still my guess when the Liberty make her #1 overall and Under Armour or Nike sign her to the richest shoe deal for a rookie coming out of college, those folks probably don't think she's "overrated".
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[cough] Rebecca Lobo
 
jjsinct said:
Before I start, I think Sabrina Ionescu is a heck of a ball player....But what I see is a very overrated player. She was fortunate to goto a program where winning was not as big a priority as it would be at another program. Yes she had many triple doubles,,,but that always appeared to be the only thing she strived for, She played for a coach who kept her in games that were blow outs for the express reason to get the triple double. Like Larry Bird said, if I knew it was such a big deal to get a triple double I would have gotten more. Diana was championship driven so was Maya and Briana...stats were always secondary. Maybe Im crazy to think this way...I just never saw her as the greatest player. More into stats then anything else...UCONN hasn't won a championship inquire a few years, perect opportunity to win one..how many does she have? I also think when she gets to the WNBA her lack of athletic ability will be exposed.....
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Watching Oregon evolve the last few years, it is very clear the program was all about winning first and foremost, and Sabrina was a major catalyst. To say she was stats focused rather than winning focused is just flat out wrong. Was more the media and fans than anything else so focused on her stats. Look how much she deferred to teammates against UCONN this season. Never got the vibe that she lacked a desire to win, because she won a heck of a lot during her career and completely revolutionized Oregon who had zero history of elite success prior to her arrival.

Plus to say she was "fortunate" to go to a program where winning wasn't a big priority is ridiculous. She wanted to take on a major role right off the bat and go to a program that she could help change rather than help an already successful program continue winning. That's not lacking motivation to win.
 
There are no comparison with Breanna's college records.
-4 straight NCAA NCs. (2013–2016)
-4 straight NCAA Tournament MOP. (2013–2016). She is the first freshman to win the award since 1987.
-3× Consensus College National Player of the Year (2014–2016)
-3× Consensus first-team All-American (2014–2016)
-Many many awards.
 
domerduck said:
Bit premature to announce clean sweep since the oldest NPOY award, the Honda Sports Award for basketball, hasn't been announced yet. It's been given out since 1977. Stewart is the only 3 time recipient. Gustafsen won it last year and I am sure Sabrina will get it this year as she is one of the 4 finalists nominated by the WBCA. The winner is chosen by the votes of administrators from every NCAA member institution, with each institution having one vote.

The first time the Wooden award was given to a woman player was 2004. Since then the players to get all 5 awards (Wade, AP, Naismith, USBWA, & Honda) in the same year have been Augustus in 2005 as a junior (missed it as a senior since Latta got the USBWA), Maya as a senior in 2011, Griner as a junior in 2012, Stewart twice as a jr/sr (15/16), Plum in 2017, and Wilson in 2018. the only two times that a player got the 1st 4 and didn't get the Honda were 2009 when Maya had 4, but her teammate Renee Mongomery beat her out for the Honda and Griner's senior year when EDD beat her out for the Honda Award.

Also if Sabrina gets the Honda Award she will join only Maya and Breanna to have those 5 awards plus the Senior Class Award which has been given out since 2002 when Sue Bird got the inaugural Senior award. As noted Augustus and Griner missed their clean sweep in their senior year. Augustus got the 2006 Senior award, but EDD did beat out Griner in 2013 like she did for the Honda. Also surprisingly Oregon State's Wiese beat out Plum for the 2017 Senior award and Gabby Williams beat out Aja Wilson in 2018. Also since the espnW NPOY has only been given out since 2014 (from what I can tell), only Breanna and Sabrina would get all 7 awards if Sabrina takes home the Honda. Then it's a clean sweep.
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Not sure if this is the point you're trying to make, but getting a clean sweep isn't more prestigious than a different POY who wins majority but doesn't sweep. It usually means there was another player in college basketball who had a POY caliber season, or that there was an outlier publication. Look at Stewart in 2014. She had an amazing season but also Chiney Ogwumike/Odyssey Sims had ridiculous years averaging 25-30ppg for top 8 teams. Stewart's 2014 season was just as good, if not better, than her 2015 season but there wasn't competition for POY in 2015 outside of Jewell Loyd (who won ESPN POY which you haven't listed) so she won more POY awards in 2015 than 2014.

This year there really wasn't anyone else who even came close to providing competition. The other top teams (Baylor/SC) were more balanced statistically and didn't have a major standout like Ionescu.

Also worth noting, Wade Trophy voters historically have had several head scratching choices that go against the grain:

-Catchings/Ralph won most POY awards in 2000 but the choice that year was Edwina Brown who was a 2nd Team AA by some publications and whose team was a 7 seed in the NCAAs.

-Chamique Holdsclaw had one of the best seasons in NCAA history (led her team to an undefeated title, massive stat line too) but inexplicably lost the Wade Trophy to Penicheiro. Holdsclaw swept every other award.

-Sims over Stewart for Wade was one of the only awards Stewart didn't win in 2014.

-Wiggins over Parker in 2008 was the only one Parker didn't win. Wiggins didn't finish top 2 in AP POY and was as head scratcher of a choice for Wade.


Lastly, I wouldn't count Senior Class Award as a POY award since academics and other factors play a huge role. It doesn't necessarily go to who had the best season. Ex. Plum clearly had a better year than Wiese by any measure, Wilson/Vivians had a better year than Gabby Williams, etc.


Sabrina deserves to sweep every POY award this year--she was the clear standout and had a fantastic season, but winning all of the awards doesn't elevate her POY season above anyone else's.
 
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jjsinct said:
Before I start, I think Sabrina Ionescu is a heck of a ball player....But what I see is a very overrated player. She was fortunate to goto a program where winning was not as big a priority as it would be at another program. Yes she had many triple doubles,,,but that always appeared to be the only thing she strived for, She played for a coach who kept her in games that were blow outs for the express reason to get the triple double. Like Larry Bird said, if I knew it was such a big deal to get a triple double I would have gotten more. Diana was championship driven so was Maya and Briana...stats were always secondary. Maybe Im crazy to think this way...I just never saw her as the greatest player. More into stats then anything else...UCONN hasn't won a championship inquire a few years, perect opportunity to win one..how many does she have? I also think when she gets to the WNBA her lack of athletic ability will be exposed.....
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I don't think you're crazy to argue that Sabrina isn't the GOAT (I agree, although I also think discussions like this are kind of pointless), but almost everything else in your post certainly deserves that label. For me, the second sentence is the poster child for that, along with the statement that Ionescu was "more into stats than anything else"--both of which tell me that you really don't know very much about Ionescu or, more generally, her team and coach. And just for the record, Ionescu averaged 33.7 minutes/game this past season; Megan Walker averaged 33.9, Crystal Dangerfield 35.4, and Christyn Williams 35.7--and, no, I do not mean this as a criticism of any of these players. Praise doesn't have to be a zero sum game, even when someone isn't wearing a UCONN jersey.
 
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HuskyNan said:
[cough] Rebecca Lobo
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Not sure what this [cough] means, since I thought UConn was in the Final 4 in 1991 when Rebecca was a senior in high school. My point was prior to Sabrina, Oregon hadn't even been to the NCAA tourney since 2005 (when Sabrina was in 1st grade) and then she comes to Oregon and brings them to 2 straight Elite 8s, a final 4, & an obvious 1 seed if the tournament was held her senior year.

Another point was, Rebecca is high on Sabrina and reiterated it again in the attached article today about her being drafted #1 to her Liberty. “She has a swagger and confidence that fans in New York love. Obviously, she can play. The reason she is so confident is that her game backs it up. She’s personable. She’s funny. She’s competitive. Not only all the things that make a great basketball player, but she has the personality that seems to fit the city.”.

www.netsdaily.com

Sabrina Ionescu, a star for the Liberty ... and Brooklyn

Your best source for quality Brooklyn Nets news, rumors, analysis, stats and scores from the fan perspective.
www.netsdaily.com www.netsdaily.com
 
Now she has the clean sweep with the Honda Sports Award announced yesterday. She joins only Maya and Breanna as the only players to win the 7 WCB awards: AP POY, Wade Trophy, Naismith Trophy, USBWA POY, Wooden Award, Honda, and Senior Class Award. Breanna and Sabrina also both won the ESPN.com POY as they hadn't started that award in 2011 (although Maya did win the ESPY for Top Female College Athlete in 2011). I am sure Sabrina will get her share of the Top College athlete awards in 2020 when they get handed out.

goducks.com

Ionescu Wins Honda Sport Award - University of Oregon Athletics

Sabrina Ionescu added more hardware to her trophy case on Tuesday, taking home the Honda Sport Award for women's basketball.
goducks.com goducks.com
 
domerduck said:
Now she has the clean sweep with the Honda Sports Award announced yesterday. She joins only Maya and Breanna as the only players to win the 7 WCB awards: AP POY, Wade Trophy, Naismith Trophy, USBWA POY, Wooden Award, Honda, and Senior Class Award. Breanna and Sabrina also both won the ESPN.com POY as they hadn't started that award in 2011 (although Maya did win the ESPY for Top Female College Athlete in 2011). I am sure Sabrina will get her share of the Top College athlete awards in 2020 when they get handed out.

goducks.com

Ionescu Wins Honda Sport Award - University of Oregon Athletics

Sabrina Ionescu added more hardware to her trophy case on Tuesday, taking home the Honda Sport Award for women's basketball.
goducks.com goducks.com
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Hasn't won Honda Broderick Cup which both Stewart/Moore won.
 
bballnut90 said:
Hasn't won Honda Broderick Cup which both Stewart/Moore won.
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Correct...hasn't been given out for 2020 along with several other National College Athlete of the Year awards. Last year's winner was UCLA's Rachel Garcia, a softball player. Sabrina will be the nominee in the basketball category for all those awards. She also has been nominated for the Sullivan Award (for the best amateur athlete in the US) which is being given out next Monday. Maya didn't win the Sullivan, but Breanna shared it with Keenan Reynolds, one of the two times in the 90 year old award they gave the Sullivan award to 2 athletes.
 
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"The reigning NCAA national player of the year and the WNBA's No. 1 overall pick, Sabrina Ionescu, has signed a multiyear endorsement deal with Nike. Financial terms were not disclosed." With one stroke of the pen, Ionescu became an instant millionaire.



"Ionescu earned an undergraduate degree at Oregon in general social sciences, along with a minor in legal sciences, in just 36 months on campus. During her senior year, she pursued a master's degree in advertising and brand responsibility from Oregon's School of Journalism and Communications, where she zeroed in on the dynamics surrounding the lucrative athletic industry that awaited her."

She's going to make a lot of $$$ during her professional playing career..........and beyond. Which way will she go after retirement, grab a whistle & clipboard or enter the world of sports broadcast media? :rolleyes:
 
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domerduck said:
Sabrina wins the 90th Sullivan award to the nation's best amateur athlete.
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Hmm...Kathryn Plummer from Stanford volleyball missed part of the season but she just destroyed the field in the Tournament. As good as Ionescu was, she was not dominant in the way Plummer was.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Hmm...Kathryn Plummer from Stanford volleyball missed part of the season but she just destroyed the field in the Tournament. As good as Ionescu was, she was not dominant in the way Plummer was.
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Plummer won the previous Sullivan award. There has never been a 2 time Sullivan winner.in the 90 year history.
 
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I remembered you once said you don’t come here looking for an argument but every time I see your name you feel the need to turn every city versatile into why Sabrina and Oregon are better. If you look all I did was give proper recognition to the co-winner something nobody else did I didn’t mention UConn or knock Sabrina so let me know how I turned the screws
 
Zanzman said:
I remembered you once said you don’t come here looking for an argument but every time I see your name you feel the need to turn every city versatile into why Sabrina and Oregon are better. If you look all I did was give proper recognition to the co-winner something nobody else did I didn’t mention UConn or knock Sabrina so let me know how I turned the screws
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Don't even know what "screw turning" means. I appreciated you added the fact of the U of Iowa "co winner" in support of my original post which mentioned Breanna won the 86th award along with the other bball players (male & female) who won this prestigious award. At that time I did not mention either Breanna or Sabrina shared the award. Considering only 7 of the 90 awards were given to bball players, I thought mentioning them all might be useful for folks who might read the post.

When you replied with the added fact, I also replied in kind with no judgment. Another interesting observation I had was that there have only been three time co-winners were given out for this 90 year award and all 3 involved women college bball players. Breanna & Sabrina are the only 2 who shared it with a male athlete.
 
domerduck said:
I understand UConn folks think Sabrina should have had a national championship, but not a single UConn legend did what Sabrina did for her school when it comes to winning, which was lead a team which hadn't been to the NCAA tourney for 15 years to two straight Elite 8's her Freshman & Sophomore years, then their 1st Final 4 last year. Everyone expected them to be a 1 seed this year for the 1st time ever and get to the Final 4. Vegas odds had them winning it all, but the games weren't played so she can't count that championship for the ultimate "unfinished business". As for the WNBA, we'll see how she does. Still my guess when the Liberty make her #1 overall and Under Armour or Nike sign her to the richest shoe deal for a rookie coming out of college, those folks probably don't think she's "overrated".
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I take this discussion as "college only." The "college only" GOAT.

What you don';t seem to understand is that most UCONN fans are right. You're bringing up irrelevant points about Oregon/ and your conference basketball and trying to use that in some twisted way to justify it for national basketball. What's more important-- conference championships or National Championships?

Further, not one player in NBA History did what Oscar Robertson did for as long as he did it and he is not in a logical discussion for GOAT. Just like Sabrina-- Oscar did accomplish something sensational with all those triple doubles for so long unlike any other player in NBA History. It doesn't make him GOAT. So using her stats to make any claims "unlike anyone else" has some meaning but not a decisive one when comparing GOATS.

Further, you're bringing up awards as if they have this "gotcha" meaning. Don't you understand why some might scoff at Individual awards that you want to cite (when you try to tie in Sabrina with Maya and Stewie.)? We've seen the absurdity of individual awards in the past. -Maybe you are too young or didn't pay attention until Oregon came alive. But look at DT not getting POY - instead they gave it to Beard. Look at the years in the NBA where Jordan didn't win MVP instead they gave to it Barkley or Malone. Or recent years with LeBron. I can understand tying these awards to a degree but it seems like you want to equate popularity contest awards to winning. And you seem to want to try to tie in Oregon Basketball and Conference Championships to National championships. That's ludicrous.

Instead what some have been trying to explain is that winning it all counts for the most. And winning counts a lot. For example this year your team was stacked - stacked yet in your peak year - at the peak of Sabrina's powers you allowed yourself to get beat twice. Now it's not that big of a deal - but your team this year was stacked. One loss vs two you could've gotten maybe #1 overall. It';s just a slight difference between super great players which Sabrina is too. But more importantly look at what happened to Sabrina when she went to the Final Four when competing against the best of the best which is where GOATS need to make their bones:

OFC frosh year it's excusable. Learning the ropes. Her soph year she had a very good game vs ND despite shooting 9-24 but what about her jr year? 6-24 from the floor vs Baylor. The point is-- when GOATS go against the best they can't be stopped. Maya was a scorer and was never stopped in big NCAA Tourney games other than struggle her frosh year a bit vs Stanford. In addition her defense was instrumental in 2009-2010. Stewie was a combo of scorer and defender that was super when she went against the best of the best.

Its unfortunate Sabrina didn't have a sr NCAA Tourney year to see what she could've done- but she did allow her stacked team to lose twice. it's understandable for the GOAT on stacked teams if they lose it's on buzzer beaters. Oregon was "beaten" by lesser teams TWICE.

Bottomline is that when you are talking GOAT- the world doesn't revolve around a team's history, or it's conference as much as it revolves around NATIONAL champions as the most important. And while awards are nice there has to be a note they can also be popularity contests when you discount other players as pointed out by DT not being named best player as well as Jordan and LeBron. . Another important point is that stats can be misleading as pointed by the Oscar Robertson example. And another point to rehash is that -- "was the superstar stopped for what they do best?" So what we could see from Sabrina - her last year in NCAA Tourney going against "the best" she shot 6-24. For what Maya and Stewie and DT did as upperclassmen (and their soph year) what they did best going against the very best - their game was not stopped. That's the difference between being a GOAT vs being "just" "GREAT." Which Sabrina was-- "great."

And a final point while you are heaping great praise deservedly with the great Sabrina which she was. Graves is an excellent coach too. He helped getting talent. It isn't all Sabrina for Oregon. Take away Sabrina and if we count popularity contests then you have a couple other big time players you (Oregon) haven't had in the past on 1 team too, right?
 
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hoophuskee said:
I take this discussion as "college only." The "college only" GOAT.

What you don';t seem to understand is that most UCONN fans are right. You're bringing up irrelevant points about Oregon/ and your conference basketball and trying to use that in some twisted way to justify it for national basketball. What's more important-- conference championships or National Championships?

Further, not one player in NBA History did what Oscar Robertson did for as long as he did it and he is not in a logical discussion for GOAT. Just like Sabrina-- Oscar did accomplish something sensational with all those triple doubles for so long unlike any other player in NBA History. It doesn't make him GOAT. So using her stats to make any claims "unlike anyone else" has some meaning but not a decisive one when comparing GOATS.

Further, you're bringing up awards as if they have this "gotcha" meaning. Don't you understand why some might scoff at Individual awards that you want to cite (when you try to tie in Sabrina with Maya and Stewie.)? We've seen the absurdity of individual awards in the past. -Maybe you are too young or didn't pay attention until Oregon came alive. But look at DT not getting POY - instead they gave it to Beard. Look at the years in the NBA where Jordan didn't win MVP instead they gave to it Barkley or Malone. Or recent years with LeBron. I can understand tying these awards to a degree but it seems like you want to equate popularity contest awards to winning. And you seem to want to try to tie in Oregon Basketball and Conference Championships to National championships. That's ludicrous.

Instead what some have been trying to explain is that winning it all counts for the most. And winning counts a lot. For example this year your team was stacked - stacked yet in your peak year - at the peak of Sabrina's powers you allowed yourself to get beat twice. Now it's not that big of a deal - but your team this year was stacked. One loss vs two you could've gotten maybe #1 overall. It';s just a slight difference between super great players which Sabrina is too. But more importantly look at what happened to Sabrina when she went to the Final Four when competing against the best of the best which is where GOATS need to make their bones:

OFC frosh year it's excusable. Learning the ropes. Her soph year she had a very good game vs ND despite shooting 9-24 but what about her jr year? 6-24 from the floor vs Baylor. The point is-- when GOATS go against the best they can't be stopped. Maya was a scorer and was never stopped in big NCAA Tourney games other than struggle her frosh year a bit vs Stanford. In addition her defense was instrumental in 2009-2010. Stewie was a combo of scorer and defender that was super when she went against the best of the best.

Its unfortunate Sabrina didn't have a sr NCAA Tourney year to see what she could've done- but she did allow her stacked team to lose twice. it's understandable for the GOAT on stacked teams if they lose it's on buzzer beaters. Oregon was "beaten" by lesser teams TWICE.

Bottomline is that when you are talking GOAT- the world doesn't revolve around a team's history, or it's conference as much as it revolves around NATIONAL champions as the most important. And while awards are nice there has to be a note they can also be popularity contests when you discount other players as pointed out by DT not being named best player as well as Jordan and LeBron. . Another important point is that stats can be misleading as pointed by the Oscar Robertson example. And another point to rehash is that -- "was the superstar stopped for what they do best?" So what we could see from Sabrina - her last year in NCAA Tourney going against "the best" she shot 6-24. For what Maya and Stewie and DT did as upperclassmen (and their soph year) what they did best going against the very best - their game was not stopped. That's the difference between being a GOAT vs being "just" "GREAT." Which Sabrina was-- "great."

And a final point while you are heaping great praise deservedly with the great Sabrina which she was. Graves is an excellent coach too. He helped getting talent. It isn't all Sabrina for Oregon. Take away Sabrina and if we count popularity contests then you have a couple other big time players you (Oregon) haven't had in the past on 1 team too, right?
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I appreciate your thoughts. Just to be clear, I didn't start this post which Poppabear did back on Feb 25. My 1st reply was two days later when there were a lot of opinions. I am not one of the 14 people who voted for Sabrina as the GOAT, as I believe it's Stewart which I saw her earn it after losing 3 times to my alma mater ND, thenfinally winning the Final 4 game and dominating for those 4 years as NC. I made it clear back in my 1st post she needed to lead this Oregon team to the NC to be considered. I also felt we need clarity on the GOAT references and provided my observations on that topic as did others.

My subseqent posts were mostly to update folks on her awards or articles, not as a "gotchas" but as a good place to post gven the title of the thread to share that info and compare her awards and stats with others historically. As for comparing with UConn players, all 3 you mention are great as are others like C Miller and Tamika Catchings, who are also champions. Stats and awards seem good fodder for discussions and comparisons which is why we post in the 1st place.

What I find truly different from the UConn trio with Sabrina is they all came to a team that had already won NCs and played with several WNBA 1st round draft picks even before they were drafted overall #1 as a senior. DT played with 6 (including overall #1 pick Sue Bird), Maya with 3 (including overall #1 Tina Charles), and Breanna had 5 and then add her two 4 yr classmates (Jefferson & Tuck) who went #2 & #3 overall in her same draft. Lots of talent at UConn beyond the best player. Prior to Sabrina, Oregon had never been past the sweet 16 and prior to this year had never had a single WNBA team's #1 draft choice You may consider Oregon stacked but Sabrina was the only 5 star recruit on the team until Boley xfrd from ND to play last year. Hebard was a bit of an unknown from Alaska, but because of her chemistry with Sabrina she became an AA. Sabally was a great international dscovery by Graves (who I agree is a great coach) and certainly deserving of her #2 overall pick as a jr. Next year Oregon will actually be more stacked with all their 5 stars.

As for my background I am neither young nor started watching when Oregon "came alive". I started watching WCBB after I graduated fronm ND and moved to Oregon for grad school 1978. My first favorite players to watch live was Bev Smith from Oregon then Tanja Kostic from Oregon State. I followed the early USC championship teams with Cheryl Miller and Stanford championship teams with Jennifer Azzi, Katy Steding, and a local kid from Philomath HS, Trish Stephens. When my daughters started playing sports and ND made their 1st Final 4 in 97 to lose to Tennessee I got hooked. I admired those Tennessee and UConn teams but reveled in ND's Ruth Riley/Niele Ivey championship in 2001. Got even more serious over ND's 5 straight F4 years when they played UConn in the semis or final each year (2011-15). Then I followed Oregon, Oregon State, & ND very closely the last 4 years on TV and going to several games live. This would have been my 3rd straight year attending the NCAA regionals.

Sad way for the season to end. Sabrina's efforts will always be known as "unfinished business." That means she never got a chance to be anything more than Oregon's GOAT, the triple double queen, and the only 2k/1k/1k player ever.
 
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