Is Sabrina the G.O.A.T?

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Is Sabrina the G.O.A.T?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 10.0%
  • No.

    Votes: 122 76.3%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 22 13.8%

  • Total voters
    160
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She may not be the goat (ESPN just said it was Catchings...at least with the WNBA over Taurasi), but U bet she will get the biggest endorsement contract ever for a woman basketball player. She's negotiating between Nike, Under Armour, & Puma. The Canzano interview was great if you click the link in the article tohear it.

 

bballnut90

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She may not be the goat (ESPN just said it was Catchings...at least with the WNBA over Taurasi), but U bet she will get the biggest endorsement contract ever for a woman basketball player. She's negotiating between Nike, Under Armour, & Puma. The Canzano interview was great if you click the link in the article tohear it.


Good for her, that is awesome.
 
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but U bet she will get the biggest endorsement contract ever for a woman basketball player. She's negotiating between Nike, Under Armour, & Puma.
Not unless she signs with Jordan Brand. It doesn’t look it’s listed as an option.
 
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Not unless she signs with Jordan Brand. It doesn’t look it’s listed as an option.
Nike signed Jordan for 500K a year out of college, then created Air Jordans and then the Jordan Brand. Maybe they are making a Sabrina Brand. I bet she'll get more than 500k/year.
 
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Jordan Brand is Nike.
It’s a premium division of Nike. Lots of players sign with Nike, but only a few sign with Jordan. It may not be as exclusive as when Maya was the first female athlete to sign with Jordan Brand in 2011 (for millions). Recently, Kia Nurse and Asia Durr signed with Jordan.

While Jordan started as part of Nike and remains a subsidiary, it now has its own identity. It has its own designers, marketing, and corporate structure, with Jordan himself actively involved on the advisory board, and its own roster of sponsored athletes, such as the NBA’s Zion Williamson and the NFL’s Jimmy Garoppolo.
 
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It’s a premium division of Nike. Lots of players sign with Nike, but only a few sign with Jordan. It may not be as exclusive as when Maya was the first female athlete to sign with Jordan Brand in 2011 (for millions). Recently, Kia Nurse and Asia Durr signed with Jordan.
I understand, but the info on the negotiation was from Sabrina's interview where she named the 3 companies. We dont know what subgroup of Nike (Jordan Brand, Nike Bball, Women's Sports) is negotiating, but I doubt they would have 2 internal groups competing. My guess the choice is part of the negotiation strategy. I am sure we will learn when it gets announced, probably around WNBA draft time.
 
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Today is a more competitive environment than the UConn glory years. More parity and greater spread nationally in talent. NC’s are a measure of team wide talent and level of competition. But whatever...
A better reply to this question might be “No (this person) was because she (did this)”. But it’s okay fandom is about opinion and loyalty. All I know is NO D-1 player has ever done what she has done. So there’s that....
And there are more than a few that didn’t have the minutes to accumulate those numbers.
 
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Bit premature to announce clean sweep since the oldest NPOY award, the Honda Sports Award for basketball, hasn't been announced yet. It's been given out since 1977. Stewart is the only 3 time recipient. Gustafsen won it last year and I am sure Sabrina will get it this year as she is one of the 4 finalists nominated by the WBCA. The winner is chosen by the votes of administrators from every NCAA member institution, with each institution having one vote.

The first time the Wooden award was given to a woman player was 2004. Since then the players to get all 5 awards (Wade, AP, Naismith, USBWA, & Honda) in the same year have been Augustus in 2005 as a junior (missed it as a senior since Latta got the USBWA), Maya as a senior in 2011, Griner as a junior in 2012, Stewart twice as a jr/sr (15/16), Plum in 2017, and Wilson in 2018. the only two times that a player got the 1st 4 and didn't get the Honda were 2009 when Maya had 4, but her teammate Renee Mongomery beat her out for the Honda and Griner's senior year when EDD beat her out for the Honda Award.

Also if Sabrina gets the Honda Award she will join only Maya and Breanna to have those 5 awards plus the Senior Class Award which has been given out since 2002 when Sue Bird got the inaugural Senior award. As noted Augustus and Griner missed their clean sweep in their senior year. Augustus got the 2006 Senior award, but EDD did beat out Griner in 2013 like she did for the Honda. Also surprisingly Oregon State's Wiese beat out Plum for the 2017 Senior award and Gabby Williams beat out Aja Wilson in 2018. Also since the espnW NPOY has only been given out since 2014 (from what I can tell), only Breanna and Sabrina would get all 7 awards if Sabrina takes home the Honda. Then it's a clean sweep.
 
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Before I start, I think Sabrina Ionescu is a heck of a ball player....But what I see is a very overrated player. She was fortunate to goto a program where winning was not as big a priority as it would be at another program. Yes she had many triple doubles,,,but that always appeared to be the only thing she strived for, She played for a coach who kept her in games that were blow outs for the express reason to get the triple double. Like Larry Bird said, if I knew it was such a big deal to get a triple double I would have gotten more. Diana was championship driven so was Maya and Briana...stats were always secondary. Maybe Im crazy to think this way...I just never saw her as the greatest player. More into stats then anything else...UCONN hasn't won a championship inquire a few years, perect opportunity to win one..how many does she have? I also think when she gets to the WNBA her lack of athletic ability will be exposed.....
 
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Before I start, I think Sabrina Ionescu is a heck of a ball player....But what I see is a very overrated player. She was fortunate to goto a program where winning was not as big a priority as it would be at another program. Yes she had many triple doubles,,,but that always appeared to be the only thing she strived for, She played for a coach who kept her in games that were blow outs for the express reason to get the triple double. Like Larry Bird said, if I knew it was such a big deal to get a triple double I would have gotten more. Diana was championship driven so was Maya and Briana...stats were always secondary. Maybe Im crazy to think this way...I just never saw her as the greatest player. More into stats then anything else...UCONN hasn't won a championship inquire a few years, perect opportunity to win one..how many does she have? I also think when she gets to the WNBA her lack of athletic ability will be exposed.....
Really!...So I guess you don't respect HOF coaches like Geno and Tara who sung her praises after she led her team to record wins over their top 5 teams on their floor. Or I guess you think UConn legends Sue Bird and Diana Taurasi who were massively respectful of her game after she led the Duck team to beat Team USA convincingly, something that only Tennessee had done years ago. How about the comments by UConn legend Rebecca Lobo about Sabrina when she was the analyst for some of their big wins this year on ESPN (Stanford, UConn, & Oregon State). She compared Sabrina to DT. Plus Kobe, Lebron, and Steph Curry have sung her praises, but they probably know less about basketball than you.

If you actually watched any Duck games this year she didn't stay in games to stuff her stat sheet. She played 7% less minutes per game than last seasons and yet she increased her assists/game by over 10% and rebounds per game by over 16% while still scoring 17.5 pts per game and matching her national season record (men or woman) of 8 triple doubles she did her junior year. That year wasn't too shabby considering she also won the Wooden & Naismith POY and led her team to the Final 4 for the first time ever. As for Sabrina herself her only stat she cared about was winning or how many turnovers she had which she hates. Her stats came in the flow of the game and she was a joy to watch.

I understand UConn folks think Sabrina should have had a national championship, but not a single UConn legend did what Sabrina did for her school when it comes to winning, which was lead a team which hadn't been to the NCAA tourney for 15 years to two straight Elite 8's her Freshman & Sophomore years, then their 1st Final 4 last year. Everyone expected them to be a 1 seed this year for the 1st time ever and get to the Final 4. Vegas odds had them winning it all, but the games weren't played so she can't count that championship for the ultimate "unfinished business". As for the WNBA, we'll see how she does. Still my guess when the Liberty make her #1 overall and Under Armour or Nike sign her to the richest shoe deal for a rookie coming out of college, those folks probably don't think she's "overrated".
 

nwhoopfan

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She was fortunate to goto a program where winning was not as big a priority as it would be at another program.
What are you talking about? Ionescu's 4 years at Oregon are by far and away the best in school history. Yeah, winning wasn't a priority at all.
 

HuskyNan

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I understand UConn folks think Sabrina should have had a national championship, but not a single UConn legend did what Sabrina did for her school when it comes to winning, which was lead a team which hadn't been to the NCAA tourney for 15 years to two straight Elite 8's her Freshman & Sophomore years, then their 1st Final 4 last year. Everyone expected them to be a 1 seed this year for the 1st time ever and get to the Final 4. Vegas odds had them winning it all, but the games weren't played so she can't count that championship for the ultimate "unfinished business". As for the WNBA, we'll see how she does. Still my guess when the Liberty make her #1 overall and Under Armour or Nike sign her to the richest shoe deal for a rookie coming out of college, those folks probably don't think she's "overrated".
[cough] Rebecca Lobo
 

bballnut90

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Before I start, I think Sabrina Ionescu is a heck of a ball player....But what I see is a very overrated player. She was fortunate to goto a program where winning was not as big a priority as it would be at another program. Yes she had many triple doubles,,,but that always appeared to be the only thing she strived for, She played for a coach who kept her in games that were blow outs for the express reason to get the triple double. Like Larry Bird said, if I knew it was such a big deal to get a triple double I would have gotten more. Diana was championship driven so was Maya and Briana...stats were always secondary. Maybe Im crazy to think this way...I just never saw her as the greatest player. More into stats then anything else...UCONN hasn't won a championship inquire a few years, perect opportunity to win one..how many does she have? I also think when she gets to the WNBA her lack of athletic ability will be exposed.....
Watching Oregon evolve the last few years, it is very clear the program was all about winning first and foremost, and Sabrina was a major catalyst. To say she was stats focused rather than winning focused is just flat out wrong. Was more the media and fans than anything else so focused on her stats. Look how much she deferred to teammates against UCONN this season. Never got the vibe that she lacked a desire to win, because she won a heck of a lot during her career and completely revolutionized Oregon who had zero history of elite success prior to her arrival.

Plus to say she was "fortunate" to go to a program where winning wasn't a big priority is ridiculous. She wanted to take on a major role right off the bat and go to a program that she could help change rather than help an already successful program continue winning. That's not lacking motivation to win.
 
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There are no comparison with Breanna's college records.
-4 straight NCAA NCs. (2013–2016)
-4 straight NCAA Tournament MOP. (2013–2016). She is the first freshman to win the award since 1987.
-3× Consensus College National Player of the Year (2014–2016)
-3× Consensus first-team All-American (2014–2016)
-Many many awards.
 

bballnut90

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Bit premature to announce clean sweep since the oldest NPOY award, the Honda Sports Award for basketball, hasn't been announced yet. It's been given out since 1977. Stewart is the only 3 time recipient. Gustafsen won it last year and I am sure Sabrina will get it this year as she is one of the 4 finalists nominated by the WBCA. The winner is chosen by the votes of administrators from every NCAA member institution, with each institution having one vote.

The first time the Wooden award was given to a woman player was 2004. Since then the players to get all 5 awards (Wade, AP, Naismith, USBWA, & Honda) in the same year have been Augustus in 2005 as a junior (missed it as a senior since Latta got the USBWA), Maya as a senior in 2011, Griner as a junior in 2012, Stewart twice as a jr/sr (15/16), Plum in 2017, and Wilson in 2018. the only two times that a player got the 1st 4 and didn't get the Honda were 2009 when Maya had 4, but her teammate Renee Mongomery beat her out for the Honda and Griner's senior year when EDD beat her out for the Honda Award.

Also if Sabrina gets the Honda Award she will join only Maya and Breanna to have those 5 awards plus the Senior Class Award which has been given out since 2002 when Sue Bird got the inaugural Senior award. As noted Augustus and Griner missed their clean sweep in their senior year. Augustus got the 2006 Senior award, but EDD did beat out Griner in 2013 like she did for the Honda. Also surprisingly Oregon State's Wiese beat out Plum for the 2017 Senior award and Gabby Williams beat out Aja Wilson in 2018. Also since the espnW NPOY has only been given out since 2014 (from what I can tell), only Breanna and Sabrina would get all 7 awards if Sabrina takes home the Honda. Then it's a clean sweep.

Not sure if this is the point you're trying to make, but getting a clean sweep isn't more prestigious than a different POY who wins majority but doesn't sweep. It usually means there was another player in college basketball who had a POY caliber season, or that there was an outlier publication. Look at Stewart in 2014. She had an amazing season but also Chiney Ogwumike/Odyssey Sims had ridiculous years averaging 25-30ppg for top 8 teams. Stewart's 2014 season was just as good, if not better, than her 2015 season but there wasn't competition for POY in 2015 outside of Jewell Loyd (who won ESPN POY which you haven't listed) so she won more POY awards in 2015 than 2014.

This year there really wasn't anyone else who even came close to providing competition. The other top teams (Baylor/SC) were more balanced statistically and didn't have a major standout like Ionescu.

Also worth noting, Wade Trophy voters historically have had several head scratching choices that go against the grain:

-Catchings/Ralph won most POY awards in 2000 but the choice that year was Edwina Brown who was a 2nd Team AA by some publications and whose team was a 7 seed in the NCAAs.

-Chamique Holdsclaw had one of the best seasons in NCAA history (led her team to an undefeated title, massive stat line too) but inexplicably lost the Wade Trophy to Penicheiro. Holdsclaw swept every other award.

-Sims over Stewart for Wade was one of the only awards Stewart didn't win in 2014.

-Wiggins over Parker in 2008 was the only one Parker didn't win. Wiggins didn't finish top 2 in AP POY and was as head scratcher of a choice for Wade.


Lastly, I wouldn't count Senior Class Award as a POY award since academics and other factors play a huge role. It doesn't necessarily go to who had the best season. Ex. Plum clearly had a better year than Wiese by any measure, Wilson/Vivians had a better year than Gabby Williams, etc.


Sabrina deserves to sweep every POY award this year--she was the clear standout and had a fantastic season, but winning all of the awards doesn't elevate her POY season above anyone else's.
 
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jonson

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Before I start, I think Sabrina Ionescu is a heck of a ball player....But what I see is a very overrated player. She was fortunate to goto a program where winning was not as big a priority as it would be at another program. Yes she had many triple doubles,,,but that always appeared to be the only thing she strived for, She played for a coach who kept her in games that were blow outs for the express reason to get the triple double. Like Larry Bird said, if I knew it was such a big deal to get a triple double I would have gotten more. Diana was championship driven so was Maya and Briana...stats were always secondary. Maybe Im crazy to think this way...I just never saw her as the greatest player. More into stats then anything else...UCONN hasn't won a championship inquire a few years, perect opportunity to win one..how many does she have? I also think when she gets to the WNBA her lack of athletic ability will be exposed.....
I don't think you're crazy to argue that Sabrina isn't the GOAT (I agree, although I also think discussions like this are kind of pointless), but almost everything else in your post certainly deserves that label. For me, the second sentence is the poster child for that, along with the statement that Ionescu was "more into stats than anything else"--both of which tell me that you really don't know very much about Ionescu or, more generally, her team and coach. And just for the record, Ionescu averaged 33.7 minutes/game this past season; Megan Walker averaged 33.9, Crystal Dangerfield 35.4, and Christyn Williams 35.7--and, no, I do not mean this as a criticism of any of these players. Praise doesn't have to be a zero sum game, even when someone isn't wearing a UCONN jersey.
 
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[cough] Rebecca Lobo
Not sure what this [cough] means, since I thought UConn was in the Final 4 in 1991 when Rebecca was a senior in high school. My point was prior to Sabrina, Oregon hadn't even been to the NCAA tourney since 2005 (when Sabrina was in 1st grade) and then she comes to Oregon and brings them to 2 straight Elite 8s, a final 4, & an obvious 1 seed if the tournament was held her senior year.

Another point was, Rebecca is high on Sabrina and reiterated it again in the attached article today about her being drafted #1 to her Liberty. “She has a swagger and confidence that fans in New York love. Obviously, she can play. The reason she is so confident is that her game backs it up. She’s personable. She’s funny. She’s competitive. Not only all the things that make a great basketball player, but she has the personality that seems to fit the city.”.

 

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